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Special edition of Charlie Hebdo will feauture caricatures of Mohammed
- Thread starter RandyBobandy
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I'm fine with it as long as it a cartoon mocking the terrorists and not an attack on Muslims.
I've been in a debate with my friends lately who have been calling Charlie Hebdo racist. I told them they are anti religious and post similar stuff for every religion and all I'll get shown is the Boko Haram pictures, or the cartoons that depict people of non white race with mistranslated texts. And that they fired a guy for mocking Judaism citing anti antisemitism but continued to publish cartoons mocking Islam.
Also I don't think mocking or disrespecting a religion is racist because Islam is not tied to a specific race or a country, likewise for Jews. But that's a different argument and people have different opinions on that.
I've been in a debate with my friends lately who have been calling Charlie Hebdo racist. I told them they are anti religious and post similar stuff for every religion and all I'll get shown is the Boko Haram pictures, or the cartoons that depict people of non white race with mistranslated texts. And that they fired a guy for mocking Judaism citing anti antisemitism but continued to publish cartoons mocking Islam.
Also I don't think mocking or disrespecting a religion is racist because Islam is not tied to a specific race or a country, likewise for Jews. But that's a different argument and people have different opinions on that.
I'd rather they actually promote free and -equal- speech and do something similar to what the onion did
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xYFaSCEAAskvg.jpg:large
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But include Mohammed in there too.
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xYFaSCEAAskvg.jpg:large
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But include Mohammed in there too.
massivekettle
Member
But the cartoons are gross and offensive...
I always knew Buddha was in some kinky shit.
Veritigo_X
Member
The whole point to that image and article is that Mohammed wasn't included.
Do we HAVE TO respect everyone's beliefs? No, absolutely not, but if we want to cooperated as a society and live together we should. As long as those beliefs aren't overlapping onto everyone's rights, live and let live. Not a single good thing has come out of these cartoons. I guess they have no other option now though.
metalslimer
Member
Good, I might not agree with how they present their satire, but it would be an insult to the people who were murdered if they shied away from it just to not offend anybody
Religious fundamentalism of any sort tends to do just that.
Religious fundamentalism of any sort tends to do just that.
But they are a minority in France. Whether or not moderate Muslims were the target is irrelevant. Publishing provocative cartoons of Muhammad is offensive to Muslims whether they be moderate or extremist in their views.
Under the guise of stupid and shit stirring dudes You would have found well educated thinkers.
It was a passion job to them.
But a job nonetheless.
Depressing comments Guys...
Please can You justdon t give a fuck.
They are dead.
Gunned down.
Probably arguing and drinking coffee right before.
You re fucking crazy all You wannabe apologists.
Interfectum
Member
So what? If you aren't offended by something on a daily basis you aren't living in a free society.
Nobody is forcing Muslims to buy a copy or read it.
I wouldn't give a shit about a magazine making fun of Jesus or God, if that makes them happy and there's a market for it then do it. I just won't buy it or care about it.
This is assuming that reasonable devoted Muslims can't take somebody having a bit of a joke about their religion.
People joke about things that are important to me all the time & I realize there's no malice in those jokes (when there's not, as in most cases) and react (or don't) appropriately.
There's no reason to think that the greater Muslim community isn't just as rational in their feelings towards fun poked at Mohammed by Charlie Hebdo.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Honest question:
Why does it matter to devout Muslims what non-believers say/think about their religion?
Tesseract
Banned
no, we shouldn't. they need to get used to being laughed it.
Because it comes off as disrespectful. It's like saying, "I'm going to take this thing that I know means a lot to you and mock it in the crudest way possible just cause."
DOWN
Banned
Offensive cartoons were made for all major religions. It's equal opportunity for satire. They have a point to make about a belief or practice, they should get to say it however they choose. You don't have to like someone's beliefs or ideas, but everyone should get to have and express them.
Not just cause. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of satire.
If they could they would have probably attacked the White House. What the "world" (and by world i mean west) should do is to stop invading Muslim countries and trying to impose their values and ideals on a group of nations that don't want it. Honestly it is that simple.
One very good thing that came out of the cartoons is the clear demonstration that some of those whose beliefs they were targeting WERE intent on trampling on people's rights.
The very fact that the cartoons inspired people to murder made them an act of politically meaningful satire, no matter how juvenile or disgusting they were.
Here are some good things: Millions marching for Hedbo and freedom in Paris, and awareness worldwide
"Live and let live" is kind of a poor choice of words. If Muslim extremists had their way then guys like Matt Stone and Trey Parker would also be six feet under
For mostly geopolitical\historical reasons, though, a very relevant part of the world's muslims, especially in north Africa and middle East, believe in the application of the Sharia Law, though. [Source: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm ]
Which happily tramples on a very large collection of rights.
So, no, sorry. I'm not going to respect stupid beliefs, much like how i don't respect christian bigotism that gets in the way of abortion\LGBT\Stem Cells\etc.
Faiths very often create situations in which personal rights are waived - we've fought, as a civilization, very hard for state\church separation. There's a reason for that.
As long as Charlie mainly mocks Judaism, and not Jews; Islam, and not Muslims; and Christianity, not Christians, i'm definitely in their camp on content.
I'm perfectly willing to pass over consequenceless stupid beliefs. But religion definitely isn't consequenceless, and all known history well shows that.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Why should someone that doesn't believe what someone else does be required to respect it or be subject to their laws? I don't get it.
You shouldn't be required, but if that other person is not bothering you, you should put differences aside and try to work together. In this case terrorists deserved to be mocked, but the other people who are following the religion are also in the path of the bullet. There were other ways to make fun of terrorists than to include the normal people.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
Being offended should not be equated to being "hurt," and creating a terrible slippery slope. I hope them and more people release tons of drawings and both offend and don't offend people. Part of the caveat of enjoying the freedoms of or communicating with the western world and Freedom of Speech is both having the right to offend and be offended. I don't give a shit if you or anyone else feel "hurt" by mere words or pictures, as long as they are not a direct threat to your safety.
And the notion of people being "hurt" by seeing someone draw a picture of their god, someone who isn't even part of the same religion, is so fucking disheartening. Especially when discussion of their poor, poor feelings bleed into discussions of freedom of speech and legalities. The same right for you to protest the government, speak your mind, form grassroots, etc, is the same right for you to deal with other people not respecting your beliefs and drawing pictures that offend you.
Religion is a choice. It neither possesses nor deserves the right to being immune to being mocked. These aren't drawings poking fun at those with mental disabilities or deformities or anything like that. The onus of needing to nut up and deal with it lies with those who choose to believe in a certain god, not everyone else.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Do you really think that they wake up one day and says "Hey it's Monday let's do a cartoon about Mohammed just because we can!" ?
They react to news, to something that happened, not "just cause"
ryutaro's mama
Member
Everything is subject to satire within a free press.
The answer is NEVER to resort to violence as a silencing agent. Some things are offensive.
EXAMPLE: As a Black person, I certainly wouldn't be ok with someone calling me a nigger but I would NEVER resort to violence or legislate against someone's right to say it.
I think a better analogy would be a cartoon mocking Martin Luther King.
Their cartoons take nothing.
Not a thing.
That add to a debate.
Whether You want to have That debate is up to You.
Yes. That sais I haven t read news of french citizens encouraged to go to muslim countries and steal properties and rape women.
I sais it before. Interventionism is by itself complicated.
Don t You think humanity can wholly défend practical values as the right to live under the sun with untouched bodies and the right to choose which things to wear?
Nudity has been prohibited in public places for practical reasons more than ideological ones. That does not mean nudity is bad.
Most people dont give a fuck if a woman is 99% covered.
They care she is okay and happy with it.
Do You want Your pénis cut?
Your clitoris removed?
Okay. But don t force other people. It s hurtfull and humiliating when imposed.
It s not a cartoon. It s your Blood trickling and your body hurting.
Resident_UA
Member
Not sure what you are trying to say... I think all media in all countries should be able to publish whatever they want. And in fact I think it's shameful that many of them censored original drawing. I'm just saying that Charlie Hebdo publishing this is not exactly an unexpected stance.
I find this act of terrorism especially infuriating because it was done as a "revenge" against freedom of speech. But in terms of the loss of life there have been way more horrible things happening (this week!) in Nigeria, Lebanon, and even Ukraine where pro-Russian forces have taken this opportunity to escalate the conflict.
There is no correct analogy because even depicting MLK in an extremely positive fashion would never bring about the reprisal that a similar depiction of Mohammed has.
Yeah I know. I want every main religious icon thrown in there.
Point is, Charlie Hebdo and anyone for that matter should have the RIGHT to do shit like that without violent concequences.
But the response to all this has been weird. Charlie Hebdo insulted islam and extremists retaliated. I feel everyones response to "double down" on the mohamad stuff is just catching innocent muslims in the crossfire.
If they want to celebrate freedom of speech over terrorism they should insult EVERYONE. Or just the terrorists.
No, they are showing defiance. Come on man.
TheUntamedLegend
Member
The title of that article is "No One Murdered Because of this Image". The joke is not: "look, religious figures in sexually explicit positions!" The absence of Mohammed is the point, it masterfully highlights the difference between attitudes toward free speech.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Sure.
My point is, people say/print offensive things. That is the double edged sword of the free speech. People also have the right to be offended when these things are said/printed.
Violence should never be a silencing agent though.
Scoot McNairy
Member
Ugh. Jokes done in poor taste ARE their goddamn message. That's the whole point.
You're being silly, and saying "It's okay to make fun of Muhammad if the joke is REALLY clever and insightful and not sexual and makes fun of terrorism rather than him as a person". That's just stupid, and equally as stupid as people who say you can't draw him at all.
Do you want to know why it's okay for Charlie Hebdo to publish a cartoon of Muhammad having sex with a koala bear whilst sitting on a pyre of burning korans?
Because it's a fucking cartoon, stupid!! It's a cartoon. It's a cartoon. It's a cartoon.
That was my point.
Reclaimer.
Banned
Not sure I agree that it mocks Judaism. But the image spread on FB is wrong I guess.
ryutaro's mama
Member
I get what you mean, but I still think they need to be careful about this stuff. If they don't mean to mock innocent Muslims, they need to make that apparent or else people will start to assume it's ok to hate Muslims now.
DOWN
Banned
It's apparent to anyone who has seen the wide range of satire the magazine has done. Or to anyone who knows what satire is, really. The comics are reactions to events and practices.
Count Dookkake
Member
But the French were part of a coalition that bombed the shit out of Libya as well as being involved in Afghanistan.
In an ideal world we will all love to live in peace and enjoy freedoms but not all countries evolve at the same pace. If countries that are not ready to evolve are forced by a third party to grow up shit live the events that recently transpired in Paris will keep on happening. The best course of action in my opinion is to allow such countries to live the way they want to live without external third party intervention. When they are ready they will call out for help.
Scoot McNairy
Member
You know, when most of your editorial staff get killed in a blaze of gunfire on the basis of a cartoon of muhammad, I'd say you're well within your rights to make your next edition all about that cartoon. I'd say it's a pretty big topic right about now.
Nobody would have ANY ISSUE if Charlie Hebdo did a whole issue about Jesus. Nobody would bat an eyelid if there was an edition making fun of L Ron Hubbard. So why are people acting like an edition all about Muhammed would be 'too far' and shouldn't be done and would be 'disrespectful'. I'll tell you why: its because they feel they should appease violent murdering racist sexist homophobic cunts.
Sure, moderate muslims will have to live with the fact that there is a cartoon somewhere of a man in a turban with a arrow pointing at him saying Muhammad. I have no doubt they'll be offended. However I'm equally offended that the staff of a satical magazine were all murdered. If I've learnt to live with that and go on with my life, so can they.
I never said they do, but certain people might get the feeling that they are and that everyone is supporting them.
I dont give a fuck about freedom of speech.
I firmly believe as long a man/woman stands alive shit Will come out his/her mouth.
I also believe humanity has better to do than get angry.
And yes. The irony of 17 people killed and the ruckus it has created is ironic when You look at the issues our societies have.
That said. This was unacceptable.and the world is better for having said it.
It is but far from finding a solution tho.
But a solution to what?
As said and said again, there is no anti muslim feeling especially in France.
What the french hate is "le con" and since most french are a "con" we generally deal with our hate by going on with our lives trying to ignore le "con".
Charlie Hebdo was le "con" to fundamentalists. Among others.
Same way around.
The world accepted them both on its soil.
One faction decided to take arms.
Can You blame the réactions to it?
Now. If the moderate muslims took upon themsleves to shut fondamentalists Charlie Hebdo would have to find other "cons"...
The world is not a happy and perfect utopia. Dealing with the reasons/motivations of all That is happening is impossible.
What happened with Charlie Hebdo was people saying fuck That in France and people agreeing aroubd the world.
It s a statement. It changes nothing. Especially changes nothing to the fact it can happen again.
Asking for non interventionism when we can t even properly deal with stuff at home is preposterous IMO.
This. Other religious figures have received similar treatment and none of their follower gone on rampage. It's time for other religion followers to follow suit. Killing people due to being offended has never been acceptable. No excuses.
Count Dookkake
Member
Well, then take it up with the folks who can't parse media.
By certain people do you mean murders and terrorists? Because nobody cares about how they feel.
is a small satire magazine, provoking and taking the piss is what they do.
The insulting part is pretending 1.7 billion of muslim care about a what a regional magazine that sells something like 50k an issue says. A 4chan meme has more influence.
If it's an issue, it's because a particular sort of people like to make mountains out of molehills. I don't particularily care about the feelings of that group.
I'm talking about people that are racist and commit hate crimes. They will get the feeling that all of these people marching down the street holding posters of Muhammad think the same way they do.
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