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[6.8]

Best deadpan comedian actor working in my mind

 

[phanphare]

I think you're absolutely reaching here with a lot of these observations, conflating an absence of character development for MJ in the film with "subtlety" but I appreciate your perspective.

I'm not reaching at all and like I said consider those points when you re-watch the movie, I think it'll become clearer for you

 

[SpaceWolf]

I'm not reaching at all and like I said consider those points when you re-watch the movie, I think it'll become clearer for you

This may very well be true. I'll be sure to keep your points in mind for my next re-watch

 

[MugiwaraCole]

Odd comment. Spider-Man 2 bears a natural and obvious connection to Spider-Man on account of being a sequel to the original, and even then that film doesn't really work as an example, given that the opening credits do a great job of bringing people up to speed on the story if they hadn't had a chance to see the first movie.

Conversely, I can understand why some people might be frustrated with needing to see Captain America: Civil War (the third iteration in a completely separate franchise) as a means of developing a working understanding of the context surrounding the story for a Spider-Man in order to enjoy it (Peter's relationship with Tony, the nature of the technological Spider-Man outfit, etc)

For people who hadn't seen Civil War or The Avengers, I could see the opening few minutes of this film being completely bewildering, an effect that wouldn't really happen with newcomers in the audience with much more self-contained films like the Raimi movies.

This doesn't make any sense considering "a film by Peter Parker" was essentially this movie's version of SM2's opening credits.

The movie works fine on its own. We knew from every single bit of marketing material that this one was deeply entrenched in the MCU, so complaining about references to the larger universe is beyond stupid. People should stop seeing MCU movies if they don't want to see MCU movies.

 

[Ithil]

Comic characters usually stick to themselves anyway, with crossovers being a rare treat, but these MCU movies seem to shove heavy crossovers into every film, and they're only 2 hours long.

Comic book geeks want the films to behave like comic books. Crossovers and continuity galore. And that's fine. I get it. It's the longtime dream of many.

But I want adaptations of comic book characters to films, not a 1:1 transaction of comic universes. And I see how being under the weight of a story group, having to maintain a certain tone set by Favreau/Whedon, having to devote time to catching up on MCU subplots, and even revolving the story around MCU continuity, is completely destroying the notion of these as adaptations from page to real life. They're live action comics, not films that take the core of a character and make the best possible film.

I mean the conclusion of this movie is centred on establishing Avengers mansion. I'm sorry but if I'm here for Spiderman, why do I give one shit? I'm not here for that. It has fuck all to do with Spiderman's internal character arc.

No it isn't. That's just showing what Peter is giving up by turning down the Avengers. It's only the backdrop.

 

[Blader]

Peter's arc through the whole movie is wanting to be taken seriously as a hero, which he equates to being accepted as a member of the Avengers. Turning down the Avenger offer to be his own man seems perfectly appropriate as the ending of that arc?

 

[histopher]

I really liked this - so many things were done right and I am very keen for the sequel. I still put Raimis first 2 above it tho.

Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man
Homecoming
Spider-Man 3
Amazing 2
Amazing

 

[crisdecuba]

she hangs out with those people enough to become familiar with them, enjoy their company, and eventually consider them friends. it's all really well done. honestly the fact they didn't hit the audience over the head with that stuff made it hit more with me. when they're in danger in the washington monument it's framed as the first time where she realizes that she considers them friends. it took a traumatic event for her to realize that she cares about those people. it was also well done and in character how that moment is when she realizes that she considers them friends but she doesn't actually reveal that to them until the end of the movie. also consider the contrast of the party at liz's house and the brief glimpse of MJ at the homecoming dance. at liz's party she has that great line where she's like "am I?" in regards to actually being at the party. flash forward to the dance and when she's shown dancing around with her friends and flicking off peter and you can tell that she is actually at this one. she's there with her friends having a good time.

so I disagree, MJ's arc was perfect and even more poignant because it was subtly executed. I think if you watch it again you'll agree.



not really, it was established in Civil War that they weren't going all out against each other during the airport fight. it's all consistent.

I loved this movie but if your interpretation is correct and this is what they were going for, it certainly didn't come through for me. It's far from really well done if it comes off as random and ambiguous as it did for me and my friends.

 

[crisdecuba]

Peter's arc through the whole movie is wanting to be taken seriously as a hero, which he equates to being accepted as a member of the Avengers. Turning down the Avenger offer to be his own man seems perfectly appropriate as the ending of that arc?

Wanting to be taken seriously as a hero is his motivation, not his arc. His arc is going from thinking that to do this, he needs to be an Avenger like Tony Stark as quickly as possible, to understanding that he still has a lot of growing to do and that he can be a hero in his own right for the people of his city.

 

[phanphare]

I loved this movie but if your interpretation is correct and this is what they were going for, it certainly didn't come through for me. It's far from really well done if it comes off as random and ambiguous as it did for me and my friends.

well it was really well done for me. I mean, I saw the movie once less than 24 hours ago and I got all of that so it obviously wasn't that ambiguous. like I said to the other poster it'll probably become clearer for yall after multiple viewings.

 

[Ithil]

It really wasn't though. It was so .. undercooked? And the guy lived in what looked like a multimillion dolllar home. The blue collar class conflict felt like it belonged to another draft or something and the movie seemed like it didn't have the balls to explore that theme in any real depth

He did...which he got from illegally selling stolen high tech weapons, after getting screwed out of his salvage job.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Thinking back on it, the Keaton-dad reveal is the first time I've ever been caught off guard by a plot twist in recent movie watching. I turned over to my friend and muttered holy shit when that happened. I honestly did not see it coming at all. The audience was just dead silent too, like you could hear a pin drop in the theater when Keaton opened the door.

i didnt see it coming, but why was it a holy shit moment? i was just like "oh okay, hes her dad. so hes not completely evil"

 

[kai3345]

i loved how this film felt like a sequel. the character is established, we don't need to see his origin for the 500th time. loved how they just jumped right in

 

[crisdecuba]

well it was really well done for me. I mean, I saw the movie once less than 24 hours ago and I got all of that so it obviously wasn't that ambiguous. like I said to the other poster it'll probably become clearer for yall after multiple viewings.

I'll concede that it was genuinely well done and unambiguous for you, and I'm sure you'll concede that it felt random and ambiguous for me. I'm not sure which of us is the better barometer for the general public (not that that even matters), but I'll definitely watch more closely for it the next time.

 

[phanphare]

i didnt see it coming, but why was it a holy shit moment? i was just like "oh okay, hes her dad. so hes not completely evil"

it was a holy shit moment because it significantly ramps up the stakes (steaks!) for peter and will also put him in a terrible position because by doing the right thing he'll also be ruining the life of a girl that he likes in the process

I'll concede that it was genuinely well done and unambiguous for you, and I'm sure you'll concede that it felt random and ambiguous for me. I'm not sure which of us is the better barometer for the general public (not that that even matters), but I'll definitely watch more closely for it the next time.

I'll never claim to be a good barometer for the general public nor does the general public's perception of anything affect mine. definitely pay attention to that stuff next time though, the washington monument bit especially is really great. it's like one of those moments in a movie where someone's life is threatened and in the process they realize they love someone that they had never considered before. that's the sort of thing I got when she screamed at spider man to help her friends. put people in danger and you'll realize where things lie.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

it was a holy shit moment because it significantly ramps up the stakes (steaks!) for peter and will also put him in a terrible position because by doing the right thing he'll also be ruining the life of a girl that he likes in the process

But I thought Marvel movies don't have steak

 

[JB1981]

He did...which he got from illegally selling stolen high tech weapons, after getting screwed out of his salvage job.

Yea I guess there's just a massively underserved market for this stuff. Didnt they have like 3 weapon? Guys like Donald Glover must have been rolling in cash.

 

[Alcibiades]

I just walked out of the theater with 3 other disappointed Spiderman fans. We wanted a standalone film that brings a sense of magic and wonder to the character (Hello Ramiverse), but it's simply bogged down by MCU cruft. It literally begins by digging up alien spacecraft from Avengers 1 and referencing Civil War scenes. The plot is driven by meetings with Stark yapping about the Avengers and giving him permission to use technology (Other M??). And it's stuffed with distracting wink-nod cameos from the whole galaxy of Thors and Captain Americas.

People try and tell me these CU connections don't matter and are just for fun, but they plainly do matter. This movie was completely subservient to the connections to other films. It felt like an episode of a TV show, not a film that works by itself. It felt small and with no sense of magic. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone who isn't already in love with this universe.

I'm glad other people enjoy this. This one's for you, MCU devotees. But this whole CU stuff continues to ruin the potential of superhero films for me.

The only part I liked much was Keaton. He always delivers.

I enjoyed the Spiderman scenes but I concur with a lot said here.

Having seen only a handful of Marvel Universe movies, it seemed like any scenes with Iron Man took away from the film rather than added to it. It was too much (and I've seen Civil War although I haven't seen any Iron Man films).

I think a nod to acknowledge the universe would have been fine (like the satellite in Man of Steel that said Wayne Enterprises), but having Iron Man hover over the entire film took a lot of the fun out of it for me. They can exist in the same universe and yet be 99% solo films too.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

But I thought Marvel movies don't have steak

 

[Einchy]

I enjoyed the Spiderman scenes but I concur with a lot said here.

Having seen only a handful of Marvel Universe movies, it seemed like any scenes with Iron Man took away from the film rather than added to it. It was too much (and I've seen Civil War although I haven't seen any Iron Man films).

I think a nod to acknowledge the universe would have been fine (like the satellite in Man of Steel that said Wayne Enterprises), but having Iron Man hover over the entire film took a lot of the fun out of it for me. They can exist in the same universe and yet be 99% solo films too.

They had to do a lot to finally get Spidey in the MCU, they're not going to get him in there and pretend like the Avengers barely exist and aren't important to Peter.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

The Stark thing was hilarious in the end. All the bitching and moaning about the trailers and it looking like an Iron Man movie. Dude was in it like less than 15 minutes. Folks will still complain because reasons..

 

[crisdecuba]

i didnt see it coming, but why was it a holy shit moment? i was just like "oh okay, hes her dad. so hes not completely evil"

? Because what you expect in that scene is for the door to open and Liz to be there. So one reason it's a holy shit moment is because it's one of the last things you expect. and then you wonder how the hell is he there? Did he figure out who Peter was? Did he kill the family? Oh he's her dad???

Can you at least see how it would be a holy shit or at least surprising moment for others?

 

[Blader]

Wanting to be taken seriously as a hero is his motivation, not his arc. His arc is going from thinking that to do this, he needs to be an Avenger like Tony Stark as quickly as possible, to understanding that he still has a lot of growing to do and that he can be a hero in his own right for the people of his city.

I don't see how this is any different from what I said, but ok. :lol

Yea I guess there's just a massively underserved market for this stuff. Didnt they have like 3 weapon? Guys like Donald Glover must have been rolling in cash.

There's a lot of superheroes running around nowadays so I imagine there is a big market for weapons that can level the playing field. To borrow from another superhero universe, it's about escalation.

 

[Sanjuro]

The Stark thing was hilarious in the end. All the bitching and moaning about the trailers and it looking like an Iron Man movie. Dude was in it like less than 15 minutes. Folks will still complain because reasons..

There is an alternate cut somewhere where Stark is Liz's dad.

The scene is HILARIOUS.

 

[crisdecuba]

I'll never claim to be a good barometer for the general public nor does the general public's perception of anything affect mine. definitely pay attention to that stuff next time though, the washington monument bit especially is really great. it's like one of those moments in a movie where someone's life is threatened and in the process they realize they love someone that they had never considered before. that's the sort of thing I got when she screamed at spider man to help her friends. put people in danger and you'll realize where things lie.

Okay now you've got me wanting to see it again just for this. These beats better be there!

 

[More_Badass]

The Avengers aren't in this movie, and an exploration of how Parker relates to the Avengers and why he wants to be one isn't in this movie. There was a way to do it ("with a team of others I could save more people... like Uncle Ben"), but they didn't put it in this movie.

If the answer is that this follows Parker's character in Civil War, that really only adds to my point (needing other movies to fill in the blanks of another movie is a cinematic wrong).

And if "wanting to join the Avengers" is indeed Parker's prime motivation, that adds to my point even more (this isn't a character who stands on his own, he is subservient to a greater universe of films and his central conceit is the worship of characters who aren't even in this film).

This movie doesn't work without other films, and isn't a complete movie unto itself, and that's not what I want. It's not like I don't have the counter-example right on my DVD shelf to back up what I do want: Spiderman 1 and 2. Complete films that work by themselves.

That's the whole appeal. That Spiderman doesn't stand alone in the comics, he's a small part of a much larger world. The Raimi movies can never truly portray Spiderman properly because they were standalone.

Have you read the Ultimate comics? The most fascinating thing about young Spidey, besides the basic everyman hero aspect, is the contrast and juxtaposition between him and the other older heroes, how other heroes view him, his naivety and optimism helping at street level versus the cynical and more aggressive perspective of the superhero soldiers and gods and government operatives fighting to save the world

 

[crisdecuba]

I don't see how this is any different from what I said, but ok. :lol

Oh, your comment ended with a question mark, so it sounded like that arc didn't make sense to you. Sorry if I misinterpreted!

 

[yukianderson]

I found it to be just okay, with those reviews and people here saying is the best spiderman movie I came away disappointed. It's not the best spiderman movie not even second best. I like some of the things like MJ acting and her introduction. I did not like Tony Stark constantly been on the movie and in my opinion took away from the film. It's kind of sad how much wasted potential in this movie.

 

[Blader]

Have you read the Ultimate comics? The most fascinating thing about young Spidey, besides the basic everyman hero aspect, is the contrast and juxtaposition between him and the other older heroes, how other heroes view him, his naivety and optimism helping at street level versus the cynical and more aggressive perspective of the superhero soldiers and gods and government operatives fighting to save the world

Not even that. Amazing Spider-Man #1 includes the Fantastic Four!

Oh, your comment ended with a question mark, so it sounded like that arc didn't make sense to you. Sorry if I misinterpreted!

no worries.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

LOL.

 

[Shang]

yo, i fucking loved it. all around just such a well-rounded superhero movie, probably the best one i've seen in a long time, which is surprising as sony was involved. that scene in the car on the way to homecoming was brilliant. the tension in the theater was palpible.

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

Speaking of Norman, when Adrian was brandishing the knife while Peter was waiting for Liz to get ready at her house, did anyone immediately think of this scene?

Both scenes felt very similar

I hope in the sequel we get a scene of Marisa Tomei smacking Keaton's grubby hand.

 

[crisdecuba]

And if "wanting to join the Avengers" is indeed Parker's prime motivation, that adds to my point even more (this isn't a character who stands on his own, he is subservient to a greater universe of films and his central conceit is the worship of characters who aren't even in this film).

This movie doesn't work without other films, and isn't a complete movie unto itself, and that's not what I want. It's not like I don't have the counter-example right on my DVD shelf to back up what I do want: Spiderman 1 and 2. Complete films that work by themselves.

Wanting to join the avengers (and becoming like Tony Stark) is exactly his primary motivation. I don't think it adds to your point though because his arc is about growing beyond that motivation - as exemplified by his rejection of Tony's offer at the end.

As long as we are in this MCU season of filmmaking, you need to adjust your expectations for any future Spider-Man movies. They're going to be interconnected. And it's not an objective cinematic wrong - it's a necessary consequence of having a connected universe of films. There comes a point where you have to go away from including everything you need for anyone who hasn't seen any of the other movies because it'd be a bogged down exposition fest.

 

[Zen Aku]

Best Spider-man movie ever.

 

[Sanjuro]

Best Spider-man movie ever.

Joe Pesci and a good score would have put it over for me.

 

[Snaku]

I really loved when Peter thought he was mouthing off to an empty suit, and his reaction when Tony stepped out of it and gave him a severe dressing down. Perfectly captured when a child screws up and gets an earful from his father.

 

[Bad_Boy]

? Because what you expect in that scene is for the door to open and Liz to be there. So one reason it's a holy shit moment is because it's one of the last things you expect. and then you wonder how the hell is he there? Did he figure out who Peter was? Did he kill the family? Oh he's her dad???

Can you at least see how it would be a holy shit or at least surprising moment for others?

Still... it didnt make my butt pucker one bit. Holy shit would have been miles making an appearance. Or an appearance to another character.

Theres no real investment in liz so it wasnt a holy shit thing. Ya know since we are aware MJ was going to be a thing in the future.

Marvel kinda buffed that one honestly.

The only holy shit moment for me was the far cry 4 guy being scorpion. Im truly excited for that. He seems like a fun actor to watch on the big screen.

 

[crisdecuba]

Still... it didnt make my butt pucker one bit. Holy shit would have been miles making an appearance. Or an appearance to another character.

Theres no real investment in liz so it wasnt a holy shit thing. Ya know since we are aware MJ was going to be a thing in the future.

Marvel kinda buffed that one honestly.

The only holy shit moment for me was the far cry 4 guy being scorpion. Im truly excited for that. He seems like a fun actor to watch on the big screen.

You can at least see why it was a surprising moment for other people right?

 

[TheGrue]

Thinking back on it, the Keaton-dad reveal is the first time I've ever been caught off guard by a plot twist in recent movie watching. I turned over to my friend and muttered holy shit when that happened. I honestly did not see it coming at all. The audience was just dead silent too, like you could hear a pin drop in the theater when Keaton opened the door.

Right when he rang the doorbell, my thought was it was going to be Keaton to answer it and he did. Not sure why the thought popped as I'm actually not much of an active thinker when watching movies. The audience I was with was very surprised, though, with people talking about loud when it happened last night.

 

[Darth Pinche]

Loved it!!!!!! It felt like a proper Spider-man story.

I just found out per IMDB that Jennifer Connelly was the voice of Karen/suit AI. I thought that voice was extra sexy.

 

[Bad_Boy]

You can at least see why it was a surprising moment for other people right?

Again. And im being honest. Not really.

I thought the movie was great so im not just trolling.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Loved it!!!!!! It felt like a proper Spider-man story.

I just found out per IMDB that Jennifer Connelly was the voice of Karen/suit AI. I thought that voice was extra sexy.

Jarvis/Vision thinks so too..

 

[okdakor]

This one is different

 

[Einchy]

Again. And im being honest. Not really.

I thought the movie was great so im not just trolling.

It's very odd that you cannot see why people would be surprised at a twist that no one saw coming that also changes the whole dynamic between him, Liz and the Vulture. I get not being shocked or whatever, people process twists differently, but to not understand why it would be surprising to people is, well, very odd.

 

[KimiNewt]

"Not being used to the spider-sense" strikes me as odd since we didn't get any indication he even has it.

Also, I thought the MJ reveal was a bit pointless. Well, I expected it, but I just think at least they could've done it without calling her "Michelle". The name "Mary Jane" itself is iconic, and Spidey yelling "MARY JANE" is as iconic as "JEAN!/SCOTT!". I don't even remember if they used her name more than once in the movie so they could've just dropped that one time and have the reveal be "Mary".

I guess we lost our final chance at "Face it tiger, you just hit the jackpot" which I wanted despite the cringe.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Like i said... its because Liz wasnt really an investing character with MJ in the background. I thought she was a waste of time.

She moves to Oregon, big deal. Lets move on to the real love intrest.

Mysterious MJ being how she was in the movie was great. She was actually an interesting take of the character. Not the reveal of mj itself, but the way she was.

 

[Darth Pinche]

Jarvis/Vision thinks so too..

Those AI's would make gorgeous little robots.

 

[Blader]

I guess we lost our final chance at "Face it tiger, you just hit the jackpot" which I wanted despite the cringe.

I can actually see Zendaya delivering that line perfectly

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Those AI's would make gorgeous little robots.

It's coming! lol..

 

[phanphare]

It's very odd that you cannot see why people would be surprised at a twist that no one saw coming that also changes the whole dynamic between him, Liz and the Vulture. I get not being shocked or whatever, people process twists differently, but to not understand why it would be surprising to people is, well, very odd.

I'd go a bit further than odd tbh lol