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[Jarmel]

Can't help but wonder why no one's thought of simply ripping his arms from his body...

They've done it before.

 

[guldakot]

not really. look what Octopus did to the hulk.

Heh, comic discussions are too fun ^^ Didn't they do a combo of hulk and Grundy in amalgam one time?

 

[Manmademan]

Can't help but wonder why no one's thought of simply ripping his arms from his body...

the harness or whatever that they're attached to is fused to his body somehow. you'd have to rip them out of the harness, and that version at least was adamantium. Good luck there.

 

[Vermillion]

Like this?

They've done it before.

Huh.

the harness or whatever that they're attached to is fused to his body somehow. you'd have to rip them out of the harness, and that version at least was adamantium. Good luck there.

I meant straight from where they attach to his body, harness and all.

 

[Manmademan]

Huh.



I meant straight from where they attach to his body, harness and all.

ripping the harness out would kill him- maybe. depends on the harness, i think some were fused and some weren't, I can't remember which one was the most recent.

Doctor Octopus has possessed a total of three different harnesses during his career: the original titanium harness, a more powerful adamantium harness, and a carbonanium harness with tentacles bearing an octopus-like motif. The original and adamantium harnesses were both destroyed in the Lethal Foes of Spider-Man miniseries.

His current harness is made of a titanium-steel-niobium alloy mixture that is dense but light weight in composition. While wearing the harness, the arms are powerful enough to allow him to walk up sheer concrete walls and move about quickly. They are also used to grab items, both small and large, and as literal weapons in terms of being swung at objects and people like clubs. The pincers at the end of each tentacle can also be used to cut and tear into the flesh of his enemies. His sheer power using these appendages was great enough to beat Daredevil, a seasoned combatant with superhuman senses, almost to death.[82]

The adamantium harness was powerful enough to both restrain and pummel the Hulk into submission during a series written by Erik Larsen. The adamantium in his tentacles made besting Iron Man in combat possible, tearing the hero's armor apart with a defeat so harsh that Tony Stark began to doubt his abilities almost enough to allow his persistent problem with alcohol abuse to flare up.[83] The harness is also capable of holding a small jetpack allowing him to fly to places faster and able to evade Spider-Man more easily. Doctor Octopus is even capable of whirling his tentacles around to deflect small projectiles like bullets.

Eventually, Dr. Octopus' harness was surgically removed, but he was still able to control it mentally, even at a distance. This power was initially explained as having been caused by the initial accident; Octopus and his arms were fused together mentally as well as physically. In fact, when the original harness was destroyed, it caused Octavius excruciating pain. He was seen sweating profusely and screaming.[volume & issue needed] Later stories suggest that Octavius possessed minor telepathic powers that gave him a direct mental link with his harness. These telepathic powers were also hinted at to have caused a brain aneurysm in his father when they first developed during puberty.[volume & issue needed] However, the original controls for the harness remain on the first version, with Mister Fantastic managing to use these controls to shut down the tentacles when he needed Octavius's help, though it is obviously impractical to use this regularly, given Reed Richards's unique powers.

If wiki was correct, looks like the harness had to be removed surgically. just tearing it off would have been fatal, and spider man won't do that.

 

[Slayven]

Juggernaut is kinda stupid, though.

He isn't stupid, just hot headed.

 

[Vermillion]

ripping the harness out would kill him- maybe. depends on the harness, i think some were fused and some weren't, I can't remember which one was the most recent.



If wiki was correct, looks like the harness had to be removed surgically. just tearing it off would have been fatal, and spider man won't do that.

I don't mean Spidey - I meant exactly someone like Hulk, but... they say he doesn't kill anyone either, don't they?

 

[Manmademan]

I don't mean Spidey - I meant exactly someone like Hulk, but... they say he doesn't kill anyone either, don't they?

comics code meant no one was killing anyone intentionally, even the hulk.

I have no doubt that eventually someone like hulk would have found a way around Doc Ock, but those two didn't usually come into conflict with each other. Ock was almost exclusively a spider man villain.

 

[Slayven]

Just saw Mysterio on that list.....shiiiiittt he will have them fighting each other why the Spidey villians eat coffee and cake.

 

[Vermillion]

Just saw Mysterio on that list.....shiiiiittt he will have them fighting each other why the Spidey villians eat coffee and cake.

...He did have an illusion over a whole city in Ends of the Earth, didn't he? Also helped shit on the Intelligencia while playing Angry Birds.

God I love Mysterio.

 

[Manmademan]

Just saw Mysterio on that list.....shiiiiittt he will have them fighting each other why the Spidey villians eat coffee and cake.

holy shit how did I miss that? Mysterio solos the list.

edit: Dropping ANY of these villains (outside of the scrub tier like Vulture, Rhino, and Shocker) into Gotham City means complete and total chaos. The bat-family has no way to deal with these people.

 

[……forgetit]

Deathstroke shouldn't be in that list, neither should juggernaut for that matter.

 

[Manmademan]

Deathstroke shouldn't be in that list, neither should juggernaut for that matter.

eh, deathstroke is kinda-sorta a nemesis for Batman. I agree Juggernaut shouldn't be in the list, but you could probably replace him with someone like Tombstone and it would be just as bad.

 

[……forgetit]

eh, deathstroke is kinda-sorta a nemesis for Batman. I agree Juggernaut shouldn't be in the list, but you could probably replace him with someone like Tombstone and it would be just as bad.

I guess enemies by association? Deathstroke is more of a Nightwing villain if anything.

 

[Slayven]

The problem with the spidey side is the ones that are crazy are crazy in a why that causes bodies to have to be stored in airport hangers crazy. The rest are hired goons, that know they are hired goons, and are good at what they do.

Doc Ock wanted to commit suicide and take all life on earth with him, and nearly did.

 

[Manmademan]

I guess enemies by association? Deathstroke is more of a Nightwing villain if anything.

They've fought a couple of times, and yeah he's more dick's villain than anything- but it's close enough that you can kinda sort of stick him in the list.

The problem with the spidey side is the ones that are crazy are crazy in a why that causes bodies to have to be stored in airport hangers crazy. The rest are hired goons, that know they are hired goons, and are good at what they do.

Doc Ock wanted to commit suicide and take all life on earth with him, and nearly did.

Not to mention that Bruce's gallery are basically average people that just happen to be crazy, and some have powers. Ras and Deathstroke are the only two that are legitimately intelligent and on Batman's level.

On the other hand Norman and Otto are both "super genius" tier. Vulture and Mysterio are right below that, as is Lizard depending whether or not Curt Connors is in control. While I wouldn't call Kraven a "genius" there isn't really anyone better at what he does than he is, and that's hunt and kill things- and he's been doing it for 90 years. He's also a known expert in human anatomy as well as poisons, etc. Even Shocker was supposedly a brilliant engineer before they nerfed him. Venom is on the LOW end of this list, and the current one is a special ops agent and trained killer. Good luck there.

 

[Jintor]

holy shit how did I miss that? Mysterio solos the list.

edit: Dropping ANY of these villains (outside of the scrub tier like Vulture, Rhino, and Shocker) into Gotham City means complete and total chaos. The bat-family has no way to deal with these people.

I reckon Bruce and co. would do fine against everyone except venom, carnage, goblin and doc ock.

 

[Slayven]

They've fought a couple of times, and yeah he's more dick's villain than anything- but it's close enough that you can kinda sort of stick him in the list.

By fought you mean DS has whopped that ass a few times and left town.

 

[Panzon]

Spidey villains easily outclass batman villains. Both universes are super cool though

 

[kswiston]

Spidey villains easily outclass batman villains. Both universes are super cool though

Spider-man has mid-tier superpowers. Batman doesn't. Their villains reflect that. Not really a fair match up when he's already stronger than pretty much everyone on the Batlist (except maybe Solomon Grundy) without factoring in the spider-sense, agility, and extremely high intelligence.

 

[Jintor]

Can't we just skip straight to batman vs Spidey?

 

[Vermillion]

Can't we just skip straight to batman vs Spidey?

Spidey.

 

[……forgetit]

Can't we just skip straight to batman vs Spidey?

Assuming no prior knowledge of each other, Spiderman. If they know about each other it can go either way, but still more than likely Spidey

 

[Wiseblade]

Alternate Question: If they swapped villains, would the heroes do better or worse against each others adversaries?

Outside of a few exceptions, both of them would gladly welcome the change. Batman would likely welcome Spidey's more straightforward villains whole Spider-Man would have no trouble cleaning up the Dark Knight's physically weaker roster.

The exceptions:

Green Goblin
Juggernaut

Osborn operates on a scale Batman simply isn't accustomed to dealing with alone. If Batman struggles with Bane or Killer Croc, Juggernaut is simply impossible to beat.(again, why is he even here?)


Joker
Riddler

Peter Parker is a genius, but he's not a psychiatrist. He would be ill prepared to deal with the insanity or ridiculous leaps of logic.

 

[More_Badass]

I reckon Bruce and co. would do fine against everyone except venom, carnage, goblin and doc ock.

Doesn't Batman use sonic batarangs, etc.? He could probably take out the symbiotes that way. The other two, I don't think he stands a chance

 

[Sibersk Esto]

I'd like to see Deathstroke go after Venom or Carnage.

You think Deathstroke can't come up with a loud noise or some fire?

 

[Manmademan]

I reckon Bruce and co. would do fine against everyone except venom, carnage, goblin and doc ock.

They're all bad news.

Electro- incredibly overpowered.

An unusually configured magnetic field was created when Dillon was struck by lightning while holding live, high-tension wires and a wound reel of one-inch cable, granting him superhuman powers. Electro can generate massive quantities of electricity, theoretically up to approximately one million volts. He can employ this electrostatic energy as lightning arcs from his fingertips, and his maximum charge is more than enough to kill a normal human.

When his body is charged to high levels, he becomes superhumanly strong and fast. He can also glide over power lines by using the electricity contained therein for propulsion, and he has on occasion been shown to actually ride on lightning bolts. During a stint in prison, Doctor Octopus gave him the ideas of ionizing metals and sparking the petroleum in the fuel tank of a vehicle as a way to generate explosions. He can charge himself up to make himself more powerful. He can also absorb the energy of electrical equipment such as a power plant to increase his powers further.

In New Avengers, he was shown to fly and manipulate large amounts of electricity and machinery, when he freed all the prisoners at Rykers (although, due to the city-wide blackout preceding the event, he probably absorbed a great deal of energy beforehand).

An experimental procedure heightened his powers, allowing Electro to store and absorb a seemingly limitless amount of electricity. He also seemed to gain the power over magnetism to a certain degree, allowing him to manipulate magnetic fields and move objects in a manner similar to that of Magneto, and could overcome his old weakness to water by using the electromagnetic fields around him to vaporize water before it could touch him. He made Spider-Man beg by stimulating the bioelectric currents in his brain, and was able to defeat Nate Grey by manipulating said currents in Nate's brain to turn his own psionic powers against him.

Electro can override any electrically powered device and manipulate it according to his mental commands.

By using an external electrical power source to recharge his body's energy reserves, Electro could expend electricity indefinitely without diminishing his personal reserves. When he is fully charged, Electro is extremely sensitive to anything that may "short circuit" him, such as water.

Electro propels himself along magnetic lines of force in objects that have great electrical potential, such as high-tension electrical lines. He can also create electrostatic bridges to traverse upon, at the cost of a great expenditure of energy.

During the events of the storyline "The Gauntlet", Electro became a living artificial thunderbolt, allowing him to travel through electrical appliances such as going through a light bulb and exiting through any other electronic device connected to the power source. He was also able to transmit himself over Spider-Man's web.

A win here is questionable without a LOT of prep time in advance.

Sandman- basically Clayface, only smarter and with more control. Again, prep time is necessary. He's able to one shot kill anyone he wants by flooding their internal organs with sand.

Scorpion- probably scrub tier, he's always been just a dude in power armor.

Lizard- sounds like it would be a walk, but isn't. Lizard is as fast or faster than spider man is, and has a healing factor. His intellect fluctuates but at his best he's as smart as curt connors is. VERY difficult to injure and hates humans. A lot of people are getting murdered before lizard gets stopped.

Mysterio- good luck here.

Quentin Beck does not possess superhuman abilities but he is an expert designer of special effects devices and stage illusions, a master hypnotist and magician, and an amateur chemist and roboticist. He had extensive knowledge of hand-to-hand combat techniques learned as a stuntman, allowing him to engage in combat with Spider-Man despite his foe's superior physical abilities. Mysterio's suit has personal weaponry which include many devices that aid him in his many agendas. His most striking feature, his helmet, is made of a one way plexiglass material, meaning he can see out but no one can see in. The helmet also includes an air supply to protect him from his own gasses, a Sonar to navigate within his own mist cloak and a holographic projector to aid in 3D illusions that can be used to fool the weak willed. His boots contain magnetic coil springs which allow him impressive leaps as well as the ability to cling to surfaces. His most distinctive and persistent trademark however is his smokescreen cloak. Mysterio's costume contains nozzles in the boots and wrists that can release a constant stream of smoke, that shields his movements as well as enhancing his mystique. He can mix various other chemicals into this smokescreen for various effects. Such chemicals include; a gas that dulls and inhibits Spider-Man's spider-sense, a gas that causes paralysis for 30 minutes in those that breathe it in, a chemical abrasive that eats away Spider-Man's webbing, hypnogens that make those around him more susceptible to his will and hallucinogens to cause vivid hallucinations in those who experience it. A combination of the hypnogens and hallucinogens along with his holographic projectors are how Mysterio achieves most of his illusions. The costume sometimes also includes offensive weaponry, such as lasers or knockout gas nozzles in eye emblems on his shoulders, or electric coils within his cape to electrocute those who touch it. He also employs many different weapons, such as hand-held hypnotic aids or robotic drones, to further his aims in battle.

Gotham is in chaos is mysterio wants it to be. Half the difficulty with mysterio is finding him in the first place.

Shocker- scrub tier, probably dead as soon as batman catches him.

Kraven The Hunter- this one is nasty. Batman has no way to deal with him. Kraven would systematically hunt them all down for fun.

 

[Kuroyume]

Juggernaut is a Spidey villian?

Anyway, I would have said Batman just for Bane, Deathstroke, and Solomon who should be able to crush the others but Juggernaut just makes it a slaughter if he's involved.

 

[Slayven]

Outside of a few exceptions, both of them would gladly welcome the change. Batman would likely welcome Spidey's more straightforward villains whole Spider-Man would have no trouble cleaning up the Dark Knight's physically weaker roster.

The exceptions:

Green Goblin
Juggernaut

Osborn operates on a scale Batman simply isn't accustomed to dealing with alone. If Batman struggles with Bane or Killer Croc, Juggernaut is simply impossible to beat.(again, why is he even here?)


Joker
Riddler

Peter Parker is a genius, but he's not a psychiatrist. He would be ill prepared to deal with the insanity or ridiculous leaps of logic.

One good run in with "I am the Spider" Peter Parker and once Joker and Riddler heal up they will know better

I always pictured The Joker getting mad at Spiderman because Joker never deal with someone that jokes back.

 

[salty_Josh]

Wouldn't Kraven the hunter hunting the penguin be the sickest shit.

 

[Slayven]

Wouldn't Kraven the hunter hunting the penguin be the sickest shit.

His son hunted animal themed superfolks and made himself a zoo. So it wouldn't be that weird.

 

[Vermillion]

Scorpion- probably scrub tier, he's always been just a dude in power armor.

Wait, are we talking post-Smythe Scorpion? Because he could shit on Batman. Especially if this is at the point where he had Scorpion Sense.

One good run in with "I am the Spider" Peter Parker and once Joker and Riddler heal up they will know better

I always pictured The Joker getting mad at Spiderman because Joker never deal with someone that jokes back.

Return of the Joker is my shit.

 

[Manmademan]

Doesn't Batman use sonic batarangs, etc.? He could probably take out the symbiotes that way. The other two, I don't think he stands a chance

won't work against the current crew. The current "superior" venom is substantially stronger than the old one, and equipment designed by Reed Richards to confine the venom symbiote during the "maximum carnage" era flat out doesn't work at all now.

SpOck had flame and sonic equipment designed specifically to take Venom out, but you're not doing it with "loud noises" or batarangs- and that's assuming you know those weaknesses in the first place.

Wait, are we talking post-Smythe Scorpion? Because he could shit on Batman. Especially if this is at the point where he had Scorpion Sense..

The last I saw scorpion, SpOck punched off his jaw and he was in critical condition, until smythe upgraded him with robots on the raft or whatever. After smythe died scorpion went right back there.

 

[SillyEskimo]

Edit: OP just edited his post when he realized his original question was so obvious

I edited a single time to add a space and that's it. The second question was there from the start!

I chose these 2 because they are both very popular "street level heroes" and I think both groups of villains are lower to mid-tier with a mix of super powers and enhanced skill sets mixed with techno enhancements. Each side has a powerhouse via Grundy and Juggers.

Juggernaut isn't as big of a deal as some are making him out to be. Every time Spiderman has beat him, it has been due to outsmarting him. His enhanced durability has allowed him to take some lumps along the way that others may not have the luxuary of, but he's never used strength to beat him. I think there are plenty of villains in the Batman roster that could easily do that. As far as Villain vs Villain, Solomon Grundy could go toe to toe with Juggernaut, and Batman has beat him plenty of times in much the same manner as Spiderman dealt with Juggernaut.

Prep time Batman would be able to take any of the Spiderman villains, while I think Spiderman could take the vast majority of Batman villains in a 1v1 but many would be pretty difficult fights (Clayface/Bane/Grundy/Croc)

The 1v1 idea mentioned earlier is pretty good too.

Clayface vs Sandman
Mr. Freeze vs Shocker
Grundy vs Juggernaut
Joker vs Green Goblin
ect

I think it would be a lot closer fight than some are making out out to be!

 

[Slayven]

Wait, are we talking post-Smythe Scorpion? Because he could shit on Batman. Especially if this is at the point where he had Scorpion Sense.



Return of the Joker is my shit.

Scoprion fell off the Space Shuttle while it was 75 miles up in the air. He laughed and wanted to do it again

 

[Manmademan]

The 1v1 idea mentioned earlier is pretty good too.

Clayface vs Sandman- stalemate, neither one can really permanently injure the other I don't think
Mr. Freeze vs Shocker- shocker is currently a joke villain who can barely tie his own shoes
Grundy vs Juggernaut- juggernaut, and this isn't close.
Joker vs Green Goblin- with the goblin formula? Osborn, and it's not close. Osborn is not only superhumanly powerful, but is also a super genius.


I think it would be a lot closer fight than some are making out out to be!

not really.

Prep time Batman would be able to take any of the Spiderman villains

Hell no- Norman and Otto are both WAY smarter than Bruce is right now. Batman vs. Superior Spiderman would be a slaughter.

 

[Gleethor]

not at ALL.



Soldier field has a capacity of 61,500 people. And that's before we consider that Norman just set all of new york on fire for a straight month in Goblin Nation.

NO ONE in batman's rogue's gallery is at that level.

Joker nuked metropolis breh. The trigger for the bomb was linked to Lois Lane's heartbeat, who superman killed thinking she was doomsday because joker laced fear gas with kryptonite (she was preggers too!)

 

[Manmademan]

Joker nuked metropolis breh. The trigger for the bomb was linked to Lois Lane's heartbeat, who superman killed thinking she was doomsday because joker laced fear gas with kryptonite (she was preggers too!)

and Norman wrecked new york for a month straight so badly even the avengers couldn't deal with it.

He's not only homicidal, Norman is a legitimate technical and tactical genius- leading the "dark avengers" during "dark reign. Joker isn't on that tier.

 

[kswiston]

Juggernaut is a Spidey villian?

Anyway, I would have said Batman just for Bane, Deathstroke, and Solomon who should be able to crush the others but Juggernaut just makes it a slaughter if he's involved.

I think the fact that Spider-man is powerful himself, plus how goofy some of them are in the cartoons, makes some of Spidey's rogues seem weaker than they are. Look at Bane. He's not that big a deal strength wise if not pit against a non powered opponent. Rhino is way above his weight class. Hell, Green Goblin is probably a good strength match for someone like Bane.

 

[Jintor]

Old batfamily had Cass 'I can read what your body is doing before you even do it' Cain who is basically op against anything strictly physical and quite a lot that is meta. New batfamoly though... Idk.

 

[lazygecko]

Apparently Osborn was "cured" of his insanity at the conclusion of Superior Spider-Man. So he's pretty much a discount Lex Luthor at this point.

 

[SillyEskimo]

I found a Juggernaut vs Solomon Grundy poll online and the results were 32.5 to 67.5 in favor of Juggernaut. I guess I'm well in the minority in my thought that he would have a chance!

 

[Coffee Dog]

Joker nuked metropolis breh. The trigger for the bomb was linked to Lois Lane's heartbeat, who superman killed thinking she was doomsday because joker laced fear gas with kryptonite (she was preggers too!)

This discussion is already dumb enough without roping injustice into it.

 

[Vermillion]

Apparently Osborn was "cured" of his insanity at the conclusion of Superior Spider-Man. So he's pretty much a discount Lex Luthor at this point.

*ding*

 

[kswiston]

Joker nuked metropolis breh. The trigger for the bomb was linked to Lois Lane's heartbeat, who superman killed thinking she was doomsday because joker laced fear gas with kryptonite (she was preggers too!)

That's was a video game tie in

 

[RedBullEnergy]

If Batman is vs Superman then Batman wins.

 

[Manmademan]

I found a Juggernaut vs Solomon Grundy poll online and the results were 32.5 to 67.5 in favor of Juggernaut. I guess I'm well in the minority in my thought that he would have a chance!

Juggernaut has a force field that renders him completely invulnerable to nearly everything, with unlimited strength and a healing factor. He also magically "cannot be stopped" once he gets going in a particular direction, due to that enchantment by an elder god. Never tires, doesn't need to eat, doesn't need to sleep. Usually he's taken out by psionics.

If Grundy is in his path, grundy is paste.

 

[Jex]

This thread isn't Stump approved yet? What gives?

 

[guek]

I think the fact that Spider-man is powerful himself, plus how goofy some of them are in the cartoons, makes some of Spidey's rogues seem weaker than they are. Look at Bane. He's not that big a deal strength wise if not pit against a non powered opponent. Rhino is way above his weight class. Hell, Green Goblin is probably a good strength match for someone like Bane.

Bane vs. Kraven would be a really good fight.

Batman's rogues tend to be more insane and unpredictable. Spidey fights a lot of super-geniuses who happen to be super powered, most of which are more mentally unstable than they are insane.

A rogues gallery match up would depend a lot on location and circumstance. Gang war in New York? Open football stadium? Warehouse district? Spidey has more powerful foes as a whole but Bat villains might have an advantage under certain conditions.

 

[Vermillion]

If Batman is vs Superman then Batman wins.

Wow. Didn't even try to segue into that smoothly.

"But," he said, eating the bait (it was quite delicious), "Batman loses every time if Superman wants to put him down."

Bane vs. Kraven would be a really good fight.

Batman's rogues tend to be more insane and unpredictable. Spidey fights a lot of super-geniuses who happen to be super powered, most of which are more mentally unstable than they are insane.

A rogues gallery match up would depend a lot on location and circumstance. Gang war in New York? Open football stadium? Warehouse district? Spidey has more powerful foes as a whole but Bat villains might have an advantage under certain conditions.

I think Kraven's still immortal, but I'm not sure.