Scrooge McDuck
Member
She's probably just happened to be there things went real and then she couldn't get out.
There really are quite a few unnecessary explanatory lines.
[SPOILER THREAD] Suicide Squad
- Thread starter George Oscar Bluth II
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E the Shaggy
Junior Member
Saw this last night, it's as bad as everyone says and suffers from a lot of the same problems Dawn of Justice did: things happen because the script said so.
When Flagg destroys his 'killer app", freeing the Squad, the villains stick around because...they're a family now? Like after an hour in their time? Captain Boomerang literally darts away from the scene once he's free, only to come back for no real reason whatsoever.
Harley thinks the Joker is dead and now wants to help save the world because....?
And I'm hard pressed to think of a bigger disappointment than Leto's Joker. What a non-entity.
When Flagg destroys his 'killer app", freeing the Squad, the villains stick around because...they're a family now? Like after an hour in their time? Captain Boomerang literally darts away from the scene once he's free, only to come back for no real reason whatsoever.
Harley thinks the Joker is dead and now wants to help save the world because....?
And I'm hard pressed to think of a bigger disappointment than Leto's Joker. What a non-entity.
E the Shaggy
Junior Member
Why on earth would they cut a scene of Joker directly fighting the Squad??
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
Sounds like an actual Joker and Harley representation. Would have liked to see that.
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
Like Animator said, it seems like it was cut out for the better.
Kibbles
Member
Yeah I'll be looking forward to the youtube compilations of all the Harley and Joker bits lol
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
Didnt u like the movie?
So a realistic take on their relationship; you know, terribly unhealthy and abusive? Probably a good call to cut it for a movie designed to appeal to a wide audience and kids.
Definitely sounds like Ayer had something very different in mind for this movie. Hard to say if the cuts actually hurt it- sounds like they were for the better in a lot of ways (despite the tepid reception anyways).
Kibbles
Member
Yeah, I just mean those are the best parts I'm gonna want to replay over and over.
Kibbles
Member
Yeah she's wearing the hat.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
So Eastwood is nobody?
Jack Scofield
Member
I was listening to a spoiler review on YouTube and they mentioned how some of the most interesting parts of the trailers aren't in the movie (Joker surrounded by knives, Joker pulling the grenade pin with his teeth). My question is: are these specific shots not in the movie, or have the entire scenes been removed?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Razgriz-Specter
Member
The Joker on the floor scene is out?
WOW went from "I don't care about reviews" to "fuck this shit" almost immediately.
That shot of him in the room with the knives and all the other shit laid out is in the movie. But the scene is all style over substance. Joker sits moping in the middle of the room when a henchman comes in and gives him some info on Harley or something. Then the shot zooms out and that's it. It has so little purpose. Scene is not even a minute long I think.
The grenade scene was cut from the movie. I can't remember seeing it.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I think this issue could be alleviated somewhat by making the enemies more threatening and the mission feels more like a suicide mission. Make it an oppressive, down-in-the-trenches story full of close calls, life debts, betrayals and deaths. Make the mooks actual gruesome and scary abominations that make the Squad constantly wondering if they're going to survive. It's a fast fay to build up camaraderie narratively.
Also cut that long, superfluous introduction to give the Squad's interactions with each other more room to breathe. Seriously.
He's a nobody (unless there's something about him in the after credits scene, but I didn't wait to watch that, I had enough). And if I recall correctly... he actually sacrificed himself by detonating a bomb without any prior buildup? That was so random...
Scrooge McDuck
Member
He's pretty much "that one Rick Flag's subordinate who has a speaking role."
He has the suit and one short line.
Him hitting her probably wouldn't have been an issue if they committed to portraying the relationship as unhealthy. Them winding back up together is... ehhhhhhehrajfljfljaslkfaj....
With the suit on
Just watched and I would prefer not to have seen this on theaters....
Me and my girl enjoyed it but it was e very very very solid 6/10
MILES better than BvS mind you but ... meh
Harley and Deadshot were the best parts... HATED! HATED Jared leto.....
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Their relationship seems to be too complicated to be resolved in a group movie, anyway. I don't know how it's like in the comics, but here I get the impression that Harley is not really that crazy (relatively speaking) and is just a tryhard wanting to keep her boyfriend's pace. I think that's a pretty interesting premise for a character-dedicated, lower-key movie.
I don't really remember the exact line. Something akin to "save the journalist, save the world."
Frozenprince
Banned
It was so stupidly predictable Slipknot would get it.
Still, shame it wasn't KGBeast, I would have loved a fake russain accent in this.
Also bummed there was no Jason or Dick in this, the whole "Dick's just hiding among them" thing would have been cool. Wish they'd have done it.
Can see why it's getting panned.
Still, shame it wasn't KGBeast, I would have loved a fake russain accent in this.
Also bummed there was no Jason or Dick in this, the whole "Dick's just hiding among them" thing would have been cool. Wish they'd have done it.
Can see why it's getting panned.
Slipknot's death was such a mess. His roping away looked ridiculous and his death happened too fast and there wasn't any weight to it. Maybe it would have been more effective had they have the bomb beep a few times or something.
... That's how their relationship is supposed to be. Them ending up together isn't a lack of commitment to portraying it as unhealthy, in fact, it's exactly why it's unhealthy. Skittishness from people like you who don't want to be challenged is probably why so much Joker stuff was cut.
KGBeast died in BvS.
Did he, or was that his birth?
If they can't even portray that on film....then why even make the movie in the first place????
So WB wants it to be dark and edgy and grim...and mature....but yet they can't do some shit like that.
These people are mentally incompetent. I wonder how they even do basic functions in their daily lives.
yikes
oh my god you're right
lol I'm sorry what?
Ya, it's bothering me a lot too. That's the bare minimum of what Joker and Harley are supposed to be, but they trash it because people don't like that an abusive relationship between two psychopaths isn't healthy? Fucking hell.
Ya, I'm being really bitchy there. Apologies, I'm mostly mad at WB for cutting so much content and taking everything out of the Joker/Harley relationship that makes them what they are. It's not supposed to be unhealthy, but she always comes back, because that's how it is for a lot of abusive relationships.
Imagine if "Mad Love" was changed because hypothetical test readers were uncomfortable with it. The story would lose so much of its impact.
The Joker/Harley relationship is supposed to be like many abusive relationships that actually exist. He wins her over with his charm/charisma/gestures, times are good, then he does something horrible like hurting her, she thinks about leaving, but he reminds her of the good times and how he's willing to do things for her or change to make things better. The cycle repeats, and nothing ever gets better in the end. What occurs in the original cut of the movie is basically that cycle, but they mostly scrapped it because people were squeamish about the whole thing, which basically defeats the purpose of having a Joker/Harley relationship in the first place.
Honestly, sorry for being rude. If you want to know more about the relationship, watch/read Batman: Mad Love. It's really great.
I know the relationship, and yeah, Mad Love is great. But she's also since told him to fuck off. This may be them simply wanting to leave themselves with somewhere to go with future movies, but at some point, you need to separate her from that.
Ah, I agree, but I don't think it should happen in their very first appearance. If she breaks off from him, it should be in their last film appearance, where she decides to stop being the clown themed killer he made her into. The way the comics did it was embarrassingly bad (Joker trying to sexually assault Harley out of nowhere to "win her over" is both out of character and completely illogical).
What they're doing instead though, is making Joker not that bad of a boyfriend, and straight up romanticizing the relationship. He doesn't really abuse her, but he barely interacts with her in an interesting way. He's just a crazy boyfriend. If they were going to go that route, it sucks that they had no foundation to build that on.
aussiedude08
Member
Its not as bad as some are making it out to be, it has some issues. but nowhere as many as BvS.
Whoever edited the film should never work near an editing board ever again. I noticed at least 3 scenes from the trailers [the December one and MTV Movie one] that were cut from the film.
People who dont know the characters will hate some of the decisions some characters make. Most of the characters were done well.
The Soundtrack was great.
I would give it a 3 or 3.5/5.
after reading it was written in 6 weeks and never had a re-write was just a stupid decision. Belle Reve was written poorly to say the least, Having Amanda Waller not the face of it. and her not knowing whats going on there was dumb. Having the guards act as enforcers with no oversight was worse. It should of been something like Amanda Waller as the Warden and inmates and guards/staff all scared of her. Too many people at the Pentagon knew about Task Force X. it should of been limited to like 5-10 people not like 20, have it unknown like in the comics. The main guard [the one Joker found and used] was a dick.
Enchantress on the Squad well supposed to be. was poor writing. She should of just been someone with no connection to the prison or Squad other then Waller pulling the strings to get Moon and Flagg together as a wild card if needed to use. [like if Flagg got in trouble use her to save him] but the who trying to control Enchantress was stupid.
Deadshot was great, could of been a little better but would love to see more of him in a Batman movie/Future suicide Squad movies. Same with Harley Quinn.
Killer Croc was good. other then at the end when out of nowhere he got into the underwater fight and killed all of GQ's team. Also Scott Eastwood was wasted it would of been cool to have him as something like Dick Grayson, but to kill him was dumb. They should of had Croc save him at the last second and not had the underwater fight.
Rope guy went as expected, i called how he would die a few weeks ago and got it spot on. Comic Con trailer gave away the whole scene.
El Diablo was ok, underused and as expected sacrificed himself [like always], they should of kept him alive and kept it for a 2nd movie.
Cap Boomerang was great, could of been used more. the "flashback" for him could of been better.
Katana felt like she was tacked on, but i expect most just ended up being cut. She was in it less the the Joker
Common as Tattoo Man was a complete waste of time and casting for the 1min he was there, would of been fine if Joker had him on his crew or whatever.
I didnt expect to see much from the Joker because of what came out when it was filming, so wasnt disappointing with the lack of screen time for him. Felt like he needed to be there for the Harley Quin flashback stuff, but didnt need to have him in the current time stuff.
Amanda Waller i thought was great, i know most will hate when she killed everyone working in the room when she got saved, but i saw that as what she would do. Everyone is expendable and she trusts less people the Batman, she is always the puppet master and there to be feared, not liked/respected. it was loose ends but should of been written better like she didnt want Enchantress getting them because of what they know/saw.
The ending with Joker breaking in and saving Harley was stupid, felt like something that was just to give him a extra 30 seconds screen time.
Belle Reve should of been the underground prison and run by Waller not what it was. I feel like they should of used like a hidden wing in Rikers or something like that if they wanted to have the break in and all the shit with the guards. and at the end have them open Belle Reve with Waller running it.
Everything about Belle Reve i fucking hated the most about the film it just felt like it was only there because of the name, but didnt feel like it was with how it was run,
other thing i hated the most was the hack job editing.
Whoever edited the film should never work near an editing board ever again. I noticed at least 3 scenes from the trailers [the December one and MTV Movie one] that were cut from the film.
People who dont know the characters will hate some of the decisions some characters make. Most of the characters were done well.
The Soundtrack was great.
I would give it a 3 or 3.5/5.
after reading it was written in 6 weeks and never had a re-write was just a stupid decision. Belle Reve was written poorly to say the least, Having Amanda Waller not the face of it. and her not knowing whats going on there was dumb. Having the guards act as enforcers with no oversight was worse. It should of been something like Amanda Waller as the Warden and inmates and guards/staff all scared of her. Too many people at the Pentagon knew about Task Force X. it should of been limited to like 5-10 people not like 20, have it unknown like in the comics. The main guard [the one Joker found and used] was a dick.
Enchantress on the Squad well supposed to be. was poor writing. She should of just been someone with no connection to the prison or Squad other then Waller pulling the strings to get Moon and Flagg together as a wild card if needed to use. [like if Flagg got in trouble use her to save him] but the who trying to control Enchantress was stupid.
Deadshot was great, could of been a little better but would love to see more of him in a Batman movie/Future suicide Squad movies. Same with Harley Quinn.
Killer Croc was good. other then at the end when out of nowhere he got into the underwater fight and killed all of GQ's team. Also Scott Eastwood was wasted it would of been cool to have him as something like Dick Grayson, but to kill him was dumb. They should of had Croc save him at the last second and not had the underwater fight.
Rope guy went as expected, i called how he would die a few weeks ago and got it spot on. Comic Con trailer gave away the whole scene.
El Diablo was ok, underused and as expected sacrificed himself [like always], they should of kept him alive and kept it for a 2nd movie.
Cap Boomerang was great, could of been used more. the "flashback" for him could of been better.
Katana felt like she was tacked on, but i expect most just ended up being cut. She was in it less the the Joker
Common as Tattoo Man was a complete waste of time and casting for the 1min he was there, would of been fine if Joker had him on his crew or whatever.
I didnt expect to see much from the Joker because of what came out when it was filming, so wasnt disappointing with the lack of screen time for him. Felt like he needed to be there for the Harley Quin flashback stuff, but didnt need to have him in the current time stuff.
Amanda Waller i thought was great, i know most will hate when she killed everyone working in the room when she got saved, but i saw that as what she would do. Everyone is expendable and she trusts less people the Batman, she is always the puppet master and there to be feared, not liked/respected. it was loose ends but should of been written better like she didnt want Enchantress getting them because of what they know/saw.
The ending with Joker breaking in and saving Harley was stupid, felt like something that was just to give him a extra 30 seconds screen time.
Belle Reve should of been the underground prison and run by Waller not what it was. I feel like they should of used like a hidden wing in Rikers or something like that if they wanted to have the break in and all the shit with the guards. and at the end have them open Belle Reve with Waller running it.
Everything about Belle Reve i fucking hated the most about the film it just felt like it was only there because of the name, but didnt feel like it was with how it was run,
other thing i hated the most was the hack job editing.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Is Waller supposed to be the one running Belle Reve in the comics? That would actually solve two issues with the film. As it stands, the long introduction in the prison feels rather pointless. Maybe they wanted to convey how bad the prison life is, making the Squad really longs for freedom but it just feels hollow.
Making Waller also the face of Belle Reve would make the Squad has a specific face to channel their hate into. It would make doing her dirty jobs be even more abhorrent to them and would make the revelation that they're actually saving Waller comes off much stronger.
Also, written in six weeks, seriously? That's really a shame.
aussiedude08
Member
Yeah, at least in the last 3 reboots of Suicide Squad. she is like the Warden. Which is a big part of why the Belle Reve shit pissed me off so much. Like i said it should of been something like Rikers or Blackgate where you expect the guards to run the place with no restraint and have it a hidden wing of that prison. Everything about Belle Reve felt wrong. also if they made it a different prison where everyone was they would be world building. and then open Belle Reve at the end with Waller running it.
If they wanted to keep the "I threw them in a hole and threw the hole away line" put them in Blackgate/rikers in a secret wing. And Belle Reve is supposed to be a bit of a myth but people on the street are telling the Joker about a prison in New Orleans where Harley was sent. What the Fuck? That shit should of been taken out, but they never got to a re-write of the first script.
That bar scene for the most part was really, really good, especially right where Courtney asks about El Diablo's kids. It did end fairly clumsily because we needed all our characters in the final encounter, Cap. Boomerang literally leaves everyone behind only to return in the next scene completely unexplained -- which made for two great sight gags, so I almost forgave it, but it was strange.
Glass Shark
Banned
I'm curious what you think was good about it. Because I felt like it was completely pointless, just like most of the movie. It was a good opportunity to spend some time getting to know the characters and their thoughts and motivations, but instead it focused only on El Diablo and gave him a super lame and predictable backstory. And it happens way too late in the movie anyway to be used as a way to get us to care about these people.
The El Diablo backstory was nothing special, and you're right that it's the centerpiece of that scene. But I was glad that the movie had some time to breathe, without some background music pushing the scene along at a breakneck pace. Ironically every characters reaction to that story said more about them as characters than it did about El Diablo. It was just a bit of really subtle character work for everyone else that I thoroughly enjoyed.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
It gives us a much needed interactions between these people in a relaxed, "neutral" environment. "Getting to know a character" is not limited to knowing their motivations. Just how different people react to certain things can convey a lot. Its placement in the movie might be too little, too late, but it's still a really nice scene on its own.
Have already posted in the main thread of how how I liked the film, but after watching the trailer found here https://youtu.be/5AwUdTIbA8I I'm wondering what happened to the scenes such as the one at 1.56 with the Joker and the grenade or whatever it is and then the bar scene at 2.12 - yes there is a bar scene in it but I don't recall them talking about what they're going to drink.
So I'm really just hoping this gets an extended cut on bluray to get those scenes back and whatever else.
I also recall when the film was being shot and someone grabbed some footage of the joker yelling at Harley whilst near a car or frightening her or something whilst she was just Harleen and that wasn't in the film either.
Yes, I did love that tribute there too.
So I'm really just hoping this gets an extended cut on bluray to get those scenes back and whatever else.
I also recall when the film was being shot and someone grabbed some footage of the joker yelling at Harley whilst near a car or frightening her or something whilst she was just Harleen and that wasn't in the film either.
Yes, I did love that tribute there too.
I saw a Reddit thread someone linked in the OT about one of the early test screenings, the original post in that thread was deleted but from the comments I gathered that The Joker originally confronted Harley and the squad in the Enchantress room, I think he possibly fought Deadshot in that scene, has a severe confrontation with Harley, there's some more abusive elements of that relationship on the cutting room floor -- again, not 100% sure on this. But as far as confirmation goes, we have that footage you mentioned, and Jared Leto recently saying how a lot of stuff he shot didn't find its way into the theatrical cut.
Sorry that's all super vague, I didn't spend to much time looking at that thread. Anyhow, I was totally waiting on that Joker shot too. After they revealed Enchantress's host was still alive, I was convinced that The Joker would bust into that room and possibly end her life with that grenade, it seemed a little too happy of an ending at the time there -- even if one major character did sacrifice themselves there.
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