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[Shergal]

I'm gonna have to rewatch 11 and 12 again to really pin down if I read too much into it or if you didn't read enough, but I didn't watch 11.5 while the show was airing and it was very easy to connect the dots and tell that Oreki's attitude at the beginning of the festival arc wasn't really the same as in the previous arc. He gradually gets more involved and starts being more himself again, but that's normal, it's not like what happened in 11 ruined his life lol.

11.5 itself is pretty meh as an overall episode, and the parts that address Oreki's character arc are just making explicit what can already be inferred by the two surrounding episodes.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

He basically breaks down in 11 after realizing he's been manipulated. Suddenly, in 12, there's no mention of it whatsoever and everything's back to normal. I don't know how I would have reacted if I didn't see 11.5, but I imagine I would have at least been annoyed if not angry.

I agree with Shergal. Oreki's conversation with Chitanda at the end of 11 is enough of a cool-down from his breakdown moment, and the detached, somewhat tired emotional stance he has during that conversation is the same sort of stance he starts the festival arc at. There's no inconsistency.

I mean, I appreciate that 11.5 tries to bridge the gap between the two books by showing Oreki's sister come home and having Oreki be cheered up, but 99% of the episode consists of a completely banal mystery and uninteresting character interactions.

 

[duckroll]

Well I remember having this discussion with firehawk a ton of times, and it always boils down to how he feels that there is some deep psychological development which Oreki went through, while I felt that Oreki is just a teenager who can brush something like that off even though it might be pretty upsetting at the moment itself. Sure, he was used, but so what? The person using him has that reputation in school anyway. He might feel like a sucker for a while, but there's no reason it would change him completely as a person. He'll just bounce back because he still has family and friends, and he IS a smart dude.

 

[Thoraxes]

That sounds like making excuses.

 

[firehawk12]

More like the Aningaaq of anime. Amirite?

Tableflip emoji here. lol

I agree with Shergal. Oreki's conversation with Chitanda at the end of 11 is enough of a cool-down from his breakdown moment, and the detached, somewhat tired emotional stance he has during that conversation is the same sort of stance he starts the festival arc at. There's no inconsistency.

I mean, I appreciate that 11.5 tries to bridge the gap between the two books by showing Oreki's sister come home and having Oreki be cheered up, but 99% of the episode consists of a completely banal mystery and uninteresting character interactions.

This is where someone says the whole series is like that.

I mean, if you're not interested in the psychological realism being depicted, then it's just a show with good animation at some point.

 

[fertygo]

Sometime I think firehawk can get hyped to certain dialogue line than overall package for the whole thing, he can say "this shit rocks" when he find that golden line/plot point, its can be such a make or break for him, that's what I get from his Hyouka or Rebellion impression, haha.. you're great dude.

 

[Jarmel]

He basically breaks down in 11 after realizing he's been manipulated. Suddenly, in 12, there's no mention of it whatsoever and everything's back to normal. I don't know how I would have reacted if I didn't see 11.5, but I imagine I would have at least been annoyed if not angry.

But things aren't back to normal. Oreki is detached for most of the School Festival arc stuff. It's clear he's somewhat depressed.

 

[firehawk12]

But things aren't back to normal. Oreki is detached for most of the School Festival arc stuff. It's clear he's somewhat depressed.

He's back to his episode 1 self though. For me, absent 11.5, it's a lazy regression of the character. 11.5 is the socalled "haircut" scene that you get in other shows with lazier writers. lol

 

[Shergal]

Hyouka has this fondness for presenting emotional parts in a somewhat dramatized way, that matches the characters' feelings and state of mind at the moment, but that doesn't necessarily warrant these things such a lasting impact or importance in the world of the show. Like duckroll said, if 11.5 didn't exist, it's perfectly reasonable for the viewer to assume he moved on after a week and that's it. That's psychological realism, 11.5 is more like anime chara development 101 honestly, from the concept to the dialogue lines themselves.

There's also the fact that the festival arc avoids focusing on Oreki, so the show itself portrays him more from a 2nd/3rd person perspective for most of it, whereas on the first 11 episodes we're seeing everything from inside Oreki's mind, trippy sequences and whatnot.
Edit: personally I feel this is one of the most important parts of this arc and the main genius of it compared to other similar anime. This willingness to have an ensemble cast for at least 1 arc and give attention to characters that need it is what elevates the show and makes me connect with all 4 characters in Hyouka, if it all revolved around Oreki it would be generic and boring.

 

[Jarmel]

He's back to his episode 1 self though. For me, absent 11.5, it's a lazy regression of the character.

He got knocked down off his pedestal, it's only natural for his character to regress a bit. The School Arc is a bit of a cooldown period for him.

 

[iavi]

The show was actually worse off for 11.5. I honestly think it the only bad episode out of the whole bunch, with it trying way too hard to play up how deeply Oreki was affected.

I think I get what they were going for (And what I think Firehawk may have been getting at as well,) but if they were trying to deliver on some type of psychological payload, the writing didn't really support that. Ambiguous enough to draw your own conclusions, but I've come to be against that lately.

 

[Crash Station]

Chaika 11

People that know how the LNs play out, I need to be spoiled on whether

Spoiler

Frederica is really dead or not.

If so, that's some bullshit.

 

[firehawk12]

As perhaps the only Star Trek fan in here, I will say that to me 11.5 is the "Family" to 11's "Best of Both Worlds Part 2". lol

I think if you're going to take down a character, then you should show the consequences. Otherwise, your character is just some bland hero protagonist who is always perfect and static.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

This is where someone says the whole series is like that.

I mean, if you're not interested in the psychological realism being depicted, then it's just a show with good animation at some point.

1) Of course I enjoy Hyouka primarily for the character interactions. There aren't really good character interactions in 11.5.

2) Every single other episode has a more interesting mystery than 11.5's - yes, even episode 6's "why did the teacher write the wrong letter?" 11.5's mystery does not present any insight into any characters, unlike most mysteries of the show.

3) Ultimately what are we talking about here? Basically a line or two where Chitanda tells Oreki "Oh, no, you're super special after all because you just solved this amazing (totally manufactured) case." What bunk. If Oreki was really as affected by the collapse of his theories in the film arc as you say, then he shouldn't just readily accept what is essentially the same kind of buttering up that Irisu used to manipulate him.

 

[Acid08]

The soundtrack in Mobile Suit Gundam is so funky fresh.

 

[jman2050]

Wait so I finally just looked up spoilers for the latest Haganai LN volume

Spoiler

Did we all just get trolled hard?

 

[TUSR]

The soundtrack in Mobile Suit Gundam is so funky fresh.

:3

you watch NGNL yet?

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

As perhaps the only Star Trek fan in here, I will say that to me 11.5 is the "Family" to 11's "Best of Both Worlds Part 2". lol

I think if you're going to take down a character, then you should show the consequences. Otherwise, your character is just some bland hero protagonist who is always perfect and static.

1) I think the main difference between you and I is that I see the consequences of Oreki's breakdown satisfactorily presented in 11 and 12 themselves. I don't need 11.5 to spell out what is already there.

2) The main reason I remain baffled at your position is that you act as if the other 22 episodes of Hyouka contain no character development whatsoever and it's only these 2 or 3 lines in 11.5 that save Oreki from being some non-character.

 

[PshycoNinja]

Gurren Lagann 22 - Mechception

So that just happened. A

Spoiler

mech within a mech

. The only way they can top that is having a

Spoiler

mech within a mech within a mech

but that would be crazy.....

Anyways we find out

Spoiler

the fucking moon is a gunman which I really shouldn't be surprised about considering it was shooting lasers at them

earlier in the episode. Rossiu looked depressed at the end of the episode for whatever reason considering the ass is still alive against all odds. If he dies the next episode I won't shed a tear. Team Gurren is still awesome.

Spoiler

And of course the series can't end with this episode as Nia gets whisked away at the end because there is a "bigger threat". For the love of all that is holy. We just fought the moon and pushed it back into orbit. What more could they possibly do!!

 

[duckroll]

Chaika 11

People that know how the LNs play out, I need to be spoiled on whether

Spoiler

Frederica is really dead or not.

If so, that's some bullshit.

Look at all this spoiler culture!

 

[firehawk12]

1) Of course I enjoy Hyouka primarily for the character interactions. There aren't really good character interactions in 11.5.

2) Every single other episode has a more interesting mystery than 11.5's - yes, even episode 6's "why did the teacher write the wrong letter?" 11.5's mystery does not present any insight into any characters, unlike most mysteries of the show.

3) Ultimately what are we talking about here? Basically a line or two where Chitanda tells Oreki "Oh, no, you're super special after all because you just solved this amazing (totally manufactured) case." What bunk. If Oreki was really as affected by the collapse of his theories in the film arc as you say, then he shouldn't just readily accept what is essentially the same kind of buttering up that Irisu used to manipulate him.

For me, it's not even the line. That's just telling the audience what they already know based on the episode. It's the progression of going back into thinking analytically and regaining his confidence through actually going through the process. it depends if you consider Oreki's ability to be a part of his character or simply a plot convenience for things to happen in the narrative.

In the festival arc, he goes back to being a genius who solves the biggest cast in the series. If the show was meant to be some episodic procedural like CSI, then I probably would have been okay with that. But I'd like to think that they are trying to do something better than that.

 

[Crash Station]

Look at all this spoiler culture!

If it was a series I cared about more, I wouldn't be asking.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

There's also the fact that the festival arc avoids focusing on Oreki, so the show itself portrays him more from a 2nd/3rd person perspective for most of it, whereas on the first 11 episodes we're seeing everything from inside Oreki's mind, trippy sequences and whatnot.
Edit: personally I feel this is one of the most important parts of this arc and the main genius of it compared to other similar anime. This willingness to have an ensemble cast for at least 1 arc and give attention to characters that need it is what elevates the show and makes me connect with all 4 characters in Hyouka, if it all revolved around Oreki it would be generic and boring.

I totally agree with you. Chitanda, Mayaka, and Satoshi receive some scraps of development in the first half of Hyouka, but it's the second half, the festival arc above all of course, that really makes them come alive and keeps the show from becoming too claustrophobic and narrowly focused.

 

[duckroll]

If it was a series I cared about more, I wouldn't be asking.

But it's the best show...

 

[firehawk12]

But it's the best show...

Made by Bones this season?

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

But it's the best show...

Made by Bones this season?

That's accurate.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

For me, it's not even the line. That's just telling the audience what they already know based on the episode. It's the progression of going back into thinking analytically and regaining his confidence through actually going through the process. it depends if you consider Oreki's ability to be a part of his character or simply a plot convenience for things to happen in the narrative.

In the festival arc, he goes back to being a genius who solves the biggest cast in the series. If the show was meant to be some episodic procedural like CSI, then I probably would have been okay with that. But I'd like to think that they are trying to do something better than that.

Oreki already goes back to analytical thinking and mystery-solving in the final scene of episode 11 though.

 

[Deputy Dangle]

Wait so I finally just looked up spoilers for the latest Haganai LN volume

Spoiler

Did we all just get trolled hard?

I take it the whole

Spoiler

Yukimura winning

thing that I heard was true? lol

Considering how low the second season went, I'm not surprised.

 

[firehawk12]

Wait so I finally just looked up spoilers for the latest Haganai LN volume

Spoiler

Did we all just get trolled hard?

Come on, if you're going to do that, you might as well just post the spoiler.

Oreki already goes back to analytical thinking and mystery-solving in the final scene of episode 11 though.

I suppose I need to watch the show again sometime, but that's probably never going to happen. I can only think back on my original feelings for 11.5, watching it in eye-cancer niconico vision and all.

 

[duckroll]

I suppose I need to watch the show again sometime, but that's probably never going to happen. I can only think back on my original feelings for 11.5, watching it in eye-cancer niconico vision and all.

hyouka115gbc.gif

 

[Shergal]

I suppose I need to watch the show again sometime, but that's probably never going to happen. I can only think back on my original feelings for 11.5, watching it in eye-cancer niconico vision and all.

If you never rewatch Hyouka you don't really know Hyouka

 

[PdotMichael]

Wasn't Oreki like the weakest part of the show?

For whatever reasons he was the central point of his clique and well-known in the school while being a Mary Sue. The episode where he reconstructed and solved a "mystery" based on a single school annoucement was an joke.

 

[jman2050]

Come on, if you're going to do that, you might as well just post the spoiler.

Fine, don't say I didn't warn you!

(Haganai LN spoilers?)

Spoiler

Kodoka realizes he liked Rika all along, also realizes she basically friendzoned him already, Yukimura kisses him and confesses, he agrees to go out with her. Also Sena and Yozora realize they were friends all along, potential :sdburton incoming? Incidentally, it seems this was the last volume and the next one is an epilogue?

I keep thinking maybe something is being lost in translation or this all makes sense somehow in Japanese, but the prevailing reaction everywhere I go seems to be some variant of "I don't know what the hell" so your guess is as good as mine!

 

[Deputy Dangle]

Fine, don't say I didn't warn you!

(Haganai LN spoilers?)

"I don't know what the hell" sounds incredibly appropriate.

 

[firehawk12]

hyouka115gbc.gif

The only way to watch anime, bro.

If you never rewatch Hyouka you don't really know Hyouka

I barely have time to watch new stuff, let alone old stuff. My summer is already fucked because of AnimeGAF. lol

Wasn't Oreki like the weakest part of the show?

For whatever reasons he was the central point of his clique and well-known in the school while being a Mary Sue. The episode where he reconstructed and solved a "mystery" based on a single school annoucement was an joke.

If you accept the fact that Hyouka is in part an adaptation of the Sherlock Holmes character, then he'd have to be the most interesting part of the show.

Fine, don't say I didn't warn you!

(Haganai LN spoilers?)

Spoiler

Kodoka realizes he liked Rika all along, also realizes she basically friendzoned him already, Yukimura kisses him and confesses, he agrees to go out with her. Also Sena and Yozora realize they were friends all along, potential :sdburton incoming? Incidentally, it seems this was the last volume and the next one is an epilogue?

I keep thinking maybe something is being lost in translation or this all makes sense somehow in Japanese, but the prevailing reaction everywhere I go seems to be some variant of "I don't know what the hell" so your guess is as good as mine!

Jesus. Well, after the end of season 2, why the fuck not. lol

 

[Chariot]

Fine, don't say I didn't warn you!

(Haganai LN spoilers?)

Spoiler

Kodoka realizes he liked Rika all along, also realizes she basically friendzoned him already, Yukimura kisses him and confesses, he agrees to go out with her. Also Sena and Yozora realize they were friends all along, potential :sdburton incoming? Incidentally, it seems this was the last volume and the next one is an epilogue?

I keep thinking maybe something is being lost in translation or this all makes sense somehow in Japanese, but the prevailing reaction everywhere I go seems to be some variant of "I don't know what the hell" so your guess is as good as mine!

Storys get weird if they're running too long

 

[dimb]

The show was actually worse off for 11.5. I honestly think it the only bad episode out of the whole bunch, with it trying way too hard to play up how deeply Oreki was affected.

 

[PdotMichael]

If you accept the fact that Hyouka is in part an adaptation of the Sherlock Holmes character, then he'd have to be the most interesting part of the show.

Well, I see Hyouka more a show about a bunch of side-characters who dealing with a "he doesn't care or try but he is better than you" kind of character.

Not that I read the old Sherlock Holmes stuff but I don't think that was the point of the original.

 

[firehawk12]

Well, I see Hyouka more a show about a bunch of side-characters who dealing with a "he doesn't care or try but he is better than you" kind of character.

Not that I read the old Sherlock Holmes stuff but I don't think that was the point of the original.

I mean, that's the Watson-Sherlock relationship in a nutshell. It's what all the adaptations play up. It's just that in this version, Watson is also pretty jelly.

 

[Lurky]

Fine, don't say I didn't warn you!

(Haganai LN spoilers?)

Spoiler

Kodoka realizes he liked Rika all along, also realizes she basically friendzoned him already, Yukimura kisses him and confesses, he agrees to go out with her. Also Sena and Yozora realize they were friends all along, potential :sdburton incoming? Incidentally, it seems this was the last volume and the next one is an epilogue?

I keep thinking maybe something is being lost in translation or this all makes sense somehow in Japanese, but the prevailing reaction everywhere I go seems to be some variant of "I don't know what the hell" so your guess is as good as mine!

Fuck that! >=[

 

[dimb]

I mean, that's the Watson-Sherlock relationship in a nutshell. It's what all the adaptations play up. It's just that in this version, Watson is also pretty jelly.

Tell me more about your Arthur Conan Doyle ships.

 

[firehawk12]

Tell me more about your Arthur Conan Doyle ships.

Elementary already blew my mind with how they turned Sherlock x Moriarty into a thing. It's why I think it's my favourite version of the story. lol

 

[fertygo]

Fine, don't say I didn't warn you!

(Haganai LN spoilers?)

Spoiler

Kodoka realizes he liked Rika all along, also realizes she basically friendzoned him already, Yukimura kisses him and confesses, he agrees to go out with her. Also Sena and Yozora realize they were friends all along, potential :sdburton incoming? Incidentally, it seems this was the last volume and the next one is an epilogue?

I keep thinking maybe something is being lost in translation or this all makes sense somehow in Japanese, but the prevailing reaction everywhere I go seems to be some variant of "I don't know what the hell" so your guess is as good as mine!

Goddayum, please let this be true.. I mean best girl win!

edit: fuck I misread this shiet (

 

[Lurky]

Goddayum, please let this be true.. I mean best girl win!

No, according to that she lost.

 

[Thoraxes]

Fine, don't say I didn't warn you!

(Haganai LN spoilers?)

Spoiler

Kodoka realizes he liked Rika all along, also realizes she basically friendzoned him already, Yukimura kisses him and confesses, he agrees to go out with her. Also Sena and Yozora realize they were friends all along, potential :sdburton incoming? Incidentally, it seems this was the last volume and the next one is an epilogue?

I keep thinking maybe something is being lost in translation or this all makes sense somehow in Japanese, but the prevailing reaction everywhere I go seems to be some variant of "I don't know what the hell" so your guess is as good as mine!

 

[jgminto]

No Game No Life 11

*Panties get removed from 11 year old character* Oh boy, you sure do make me want to drop you, NGNL. I think I will next time something like that happens. It can be an entertaining show but it's incredibly repulsive when it does shit like that. The incest stuff is pretty bad too. Not SAO or Mahouka bad but pretty bad.

 

[fertygo]

No, according to that she lost.

Somehow my heart clouding my eyes to read the

Spoiler

Yukimura

part :<

fuck that shittttttttt, and its so close :(

 

[Shard]

No Game No Life 11

*Panties get removed from 11 year old character* Oh boy, you sure do make me want to drop you, NGNL. I think I will next time something like that happens. It can be an entertaining show but it's incredibly repulsive when it does shit like that. The incest stuff is pretty bad too. Not SAO or Mahouka bad but pretty bad.

This is why I dropped the show after 10 minutes and nobody can convince me that this show is worth a damn.

 

[Lurky]

Somehow my heart clouding my eyes to read the

Spoiler

Yukimura

part :<

fuck that shittttttttt, and its so close :(

Oh so you're a fan of

Spoiler

Rika

too? At the very least third best girl won.

 

[phaze]

That feel when you're listening to Naruto soundtrack and recommended videos spoil the everliving shit out of you.

Animu gaf I need you're help. I'm wanting to watch a dark anime but can't think of any. I prefer dark animes and haven't watched one for a while. I've watched a few and I know there are alot more but can't make up my mind.

I would appreciate you're recommendations.

For example I liked Fate/Zero, Another, Higurashi when I was in the mood for dark stuff.


BTW I like happy stuff to but not in the mood for it right now.

If you haven't seen it yet, Madoka Magica maybe ? Same writer as F/Z and similarly depressing and dark.

Diebuster 1-4


Let me start by saying that I found Gunbuster to be an okay OVA series with a gdlk ending. This is mainly due to most of the cast being kinda unlikable...and that I only really watched it to watch Diebuster due to the staff behind it..and well.

Shit delivered so hard.

Episode 4 in particular is just holy shit son. I have to getr up rather early tommorow or otherwise I'd finish the series...so hopefully it doesn't shit the bed in those episode (it is Gainax so the ending could potentially fuck things up...for better or for worse).

But as of right now...this is in my top 5 for sure.

Great to hear, I felt similarly about Gunbuster and should be getting my hands on the Die in a week or two.


Black Bullet 2

This was surprisingly decent. Less ham-fisted exposition and a good setup for future episodes. Got a bit melodramatic at the end but nothing I couldn't swallow.


Now to finally discover the glory of Dio.