I have a definite preference for older dubs in spite of their flaws, which are often in and of themselves endearing anyway. I mean, something completely non-notable like KI*ME*RA has more natural-sounding delivery to its lines than any dub I've listened to in the past few years. It seems like modern dubbers have to please such a fractured fanbase in terms of personal dubbing preference that they end up pleasing no one.
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Spring Anime 2012 III | AITAKATTA YES!
- Thread starter hosannainexcelsis
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I have a definite preference for older dubs in spite of their flaws, which are often in and of themselves endearing anyway. I mean, something completely non-notable like KI*ME*RA has more natural-sounding delivery to its lines than any dub I've listened to in the past few years. It seems like modern dubbers have to please such a fractured fanbase in terms of personal dubbing preference that they end up pleasing no one.
Well, 2 out of 4 ain't bad. I don't want kids anyway, and wives aren't as good as 2D amirite?
I will agree with you on that point, though I've gotten pretty pro at this point. I don't stare at the subs like I used to - just zip through 'em.
Ah, I see, I see. Will give it a read from that point then since it doesn't sound like it's worth reading through the whole Genshiken manga after seeing the anime.
Jex
Member
Well, directing is part of pacing too.
and editing, and the viewers attention span
Ultimadrago
Member
Any time you alter the visual composition is problematic. Of course, altering the audio track can be problematic as well. I guess if you want a pure experience it's best just to learn Japanese.
Jex
Member
Well, there are probably a couple of factors. Firstly, modern anime fans probably want extremely accurate translations, possibly at the cost of a naturalistic script.
Secondly there were quite a few more dubbing studios back then so that allowed for more variety and different approaches. Now everything is dubbed in Texas.
Ultimadrago
Member
2D is a less expensive investment, depending on who you are.
Jex
Member
Oh, most of them were completely rubbish, but I preferred that style of delivery over the modern approach.
Kara No Kyoukai 02: Murder Speculation (Part 2)
This one was uhhhh not so good.
The tone was completely different than the first one as this film focused on the time when Mikiya meets Shiki back in high school. It felt more like a not so interesting slice-of-life episode with an overlying mystery looming in the background until the last 1/4th of the film where things escalated. There's a good deal of character development and revelations here which kinda gives me a better understanding of the two main characters. Honestly besides the visuals and the music, I really didn't find anything remarkable about this film. The relationship between them seems kinda dumb at this point, and it doesn't help that Mikiya isn't too bright when it comes to Shiki's situation. He isn't as insufferable as I expected but I'm definitely not a fan of his character at the moment.
That said, I really enjoyed the music for this film. The 'main theme' track is great and one of my favorites from the series of films I've heard so far. It's simple, yet very elegant and fits a lot of the scenes since much of the film felt more peaceful compared to the tense atmosphere of the first film.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIlFmb-A4i0
Kara No Kyoukai 03: Remaining Sense of Pain
Ah that's more like it.
Back to the setting of the first film with another self-contained mystery to deal with. Some very unsettling scenes in this one and not gonna lie, I got a bit of a Elfen Lied vibe from some of those scenes. That said, I enjoyed this one just as much as the first. The film seemed to be less focused on Shiki and more on developing the plot. The pacing was a lot better than the second and probably even the first as well since we're already familiar with the characters and setting by this point.
The storyline was pretty interesting and ties in with the subtitle of this film very well. I liked the antagonist for this film as she was both an interesting character with her disturbing powers yet sympathetic in her situation. It definitely made "those" scenes all the more unsettling.
The climactic action scene was pretty cool. The setting was very dramatic and the effects used were nicely implemented. Overall I liked this one. It's a dark and unsettling movie but it's presented very well in terms of storytelling and visuals.
This one was uhhhh not so good.
The tone was completely different than the first one as this film focused on the time when Mikiya meets Shiki back in high school. It felt more like a not so interesting slice-of-life episode with an overlying mystery looming in the background until the last 1/4th of the film where things escalated. There's a good deal of character development and revelations here which kinda gives me a better understanding of the two main characters. Honestly besides the visuals and the music, I really didn't find anything remarkable about this film. The relationship between them seems kinda dumb at this point, and it doesn't help that Mikiya isn't too bright when it comes to Shiki's situation. He isn't as insufferable as I expected but I'm definitely not a fan of his character at the moment.
That said, I really enjoyed the music for this film. The 'main theme' track is great and one of my favorites from the series of films I've heard so far. It's simple, yet very elegant and fits a lot of the scenes since much of the film felt more peaceful compared to the tense atmosphere of the first film.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIlFmb-A4i0
Kara No Kyoukai 03: Remaining Sense of Pain
Ah that's more like it.
Back to the setting of the first film with another self-contained mystery to deal with. Some very unsettling scenes in this one and not gonna lie, I got a bit of a Elfen Lied vibe from some of those scenes. That said, I enjoyed this one just as much as the first. The film seemed to be less focused on Shiki and more on developing the plot. The pacing was a lot better than the second and probably even the first as well since we're already familiar with the characters and setting by this point.
The storyline was pretty interesting and ties in with the subtitle of this film very well. I liked the antagonist for this film as she was both an interesting character with her disturbing powers yet sympathetic in her situation. It definitely made "those" scenes all the more unsettling.
The climactic action scene was pretty cool. The setting was very dramatic and the effects used were nicely implemented. Overall I liked this one. It's a dark and unsettling movie but it's presented very well in terms of storytelling and visuals.
Jex
Member
Well even that isn't ideal, of course. Especially for shows that combine a lot of talking with a lot of editing. As Branduil says, the best solution is certainly to learn Japanese.
I find this slightly surprising, as I imagine that the audience who resolutely "plays by the rules" to the point that they will not consume anime in any form until it's available legally and dubbed is the least likely to have any familiarity with the original Japanese source material and therefore what is "accurate" in the first place.
Then again, I don't know how much of the dubbed anime market consists of otaku collectors and how much consists of severely anti-piracy/anti-sub individuals, so the latter may only account for a small percentage of the customer base. I have no way of knowing.
Seconded. I haven't been consuming anime long enough to have nostalgia toward old dubs anyway, so my opinion is purely actual personal preference.
I don't have the mindset for it, plus I have shiny object syndrome. I spent a year in South Korea and despite talking with locals and trying to learn the language while I was there (including some Filipino) I remembered absolutely nothing. I even tried to learn the South Korean alphabet and such, but yeah... way over my head, heh.
Jex
Member
Well, you know what the collectors market is like. When someone finds out that some character name has been changed or romanized in a certain way they just boycott the whole release!
Unknown Soldier
Member
The best films are 5 and 3. The worst one is 1. 2 and 4 are just kinda there, they provide the background for the overarching story. 7 was kind of disappointing actually, the novels were originally going to end at 5 but then Nasu decided he had more stuff to add, so both 6 and 7 are surprisingly fillerish even though they do tie some loose ends left by 5.
6, well, I guess that depends on how much you <3 Azaka. Tee hee~
Basileus777
Member
The music is probably my favorite thing about these films. Kara No Kyoukai has some really great tacks.
On a slightly different tangent, I find Baccano's dub to be slightly above acceptable. The real stars of the dub were J. Michael Tatum (Issac), Caitlin Glass (Miria) and Bryan Massey (Ladd). A lot of the other cast was fairly so-so when it came to performance, with accents sometimes going in and out and some utilizing some hokey accents in general (Chris Patton as Graham Specter comes to mind). Jerry Jewell's performance as Claire, while fitting in terms of voice and accent, wasn't too impressive in terms of line delivery. Then there's the supporting characters that don't get the same treatment as far as casting and voices. The black characters for instance were clearly not being voiced by black actors. The voice actress of Eve Genoard's maid was obviously trying to mimic a less offensive Mammy voice which in and of itself almost came close to being offensive. Overall, I personally wouldn't rank Baccano very high on my own list of good English dubs.
I'm not totally innocent of that. I never bought any volumes of the One Piece manga solely because Zoro is called Zolo, though that's slightly forgivable due to the unavoidable negative connotations with the 4kids dub.
In general, though, I would have an active interest in anime dubs if they had much more leeway in being able to express the spirit of the original script as opposed to the letter. It's analogous to the difference between merely translating and actually localizing a video game, and opinion on what is the more preferable option is similarly split there. I would greatly welcome the dubbing equivalent of Working Designs.
On another note, a commonality that I've noticed among the majority of my favorite dubs is that they come from shows that lack Japanese names and terminology. There's something inherently awkward and false-sounding about people with American accents calling each other by Japanese names (related to this: consider the English-language use of honorifics in the Persona 4 dub, which drives me up the wall), and series in which names are actually English or otherwise sound more ethnically/linguistically-neutral to English ears feel more natural and convincing on the whole.
chickdigger802
Banned
silly question... but how does one sex with their servant?
Servants are just spirits using your mana to manifest right?
So you fuck... yourself.
Maybe if you fuck someone else's servant.... hmmm...
Servants are just spirits using your mana to manifest right?
So you fuck... yourself.
Maybe if you fuck someone else's servant.... hmmm...
Unknown Soldier
Member
They manifest in a physical form which is preserved by your mana. I'm assuming since they assume physical forms they can do anything that a physically existing human can do. The Heroic Spirits are the preserved memories in the forms of spirits of great heroes or legends from the past, so they exist as themselves or what people perceive them to be...Rin's explanation of Heroic Spirits in the F/SN prologue took forever and didn't really make a lot of sense, especially concerning the Heroic Spirits who weren't actually real historical figures (like
F/SN Assassin
isn't actually dead.
Archer, who is actually Shirou from some alternate timeline or universe or someshit.
Basileus777
Member
They are spirits summoned into a container by the Holy Grail, the master just needs to supply them mana to keep them in the world. For whatever reason servants can interact with physical objects even if they don't have physical bodies <F/Z spoilers>
(outside of Gilgamesh post F/Z).
Jex
Member
I don't think that line or argument makes sense but, in an ideal world, this topic shouldn't even come up.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Well, "slaying the dragon" is a euphemism for masturbation...
Not everyone is great but I give the dubbing team a lot of credit for directing the dub in a way that adds character to the anime and actually makes it more fun to watch.
Wow, this altered version of the gif is much worse than the original.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Crash Station
Member
Zetman end
There are a few things about this ending that don't sit right with me. The Dark Knight parallels for one being quite accurate.
That being said, there are still a lot of things about the climax (as in these last 3 episodes) in general that I really liked. Outside of what I mentioned, they took Kouga's character in a very bold, yet believable direction. The actions he displayed were always a possibility with how he was portrayed in the manga, but it never got to that point, instead opting to stick with the "conflicted sense of justice" characterization rather than the "knight templar" that he became in this. Now that isn't to say there won't be something to push him over the edge in the manga at some point, but it seems unlikely for the time being.
And yeah, action was still great throughout. I'm still amazed at what they were able to do in the previous episode with the sense scale in the background while keeping the action in the front too. This final episode wasn't quite as impressive, but still good.
Anyway, the enjoyment I got out of these last few episodes doesn't excuse the pacing issues at the beginning. Suddenly skipping over 60 chapters, then rewinding like 30 was just jarring. Other than that though, this is a solid, yet alternate interpretation of a solid premise.
I still say people should read the manga though.
There are a few things about this ending that don't sit right with me. The Dark Knight parallels for one being quite accurate.
Kouga getting off scot free for killing both his parents and Hanako is pretty damn unsatisfying. Hanako is understandable, but he still contradicted the "justice" of his hero and didn't even feel remorseful about it. If it ended like say, Final Fantasy Tactics where it was quite clear he didn't feel even a hint of happiness anymore, then I could understand. But nope, he gets to take over the company, don a secret super hero identity that is loved by all, and get an awesome wife.
That being said, there are still a lot of things about the climax (as in these last 3 episodes) in general that I really liked. Outside of what I mentioned, they took Kouga's character in a very bold, yet believable direction. The actions he displayed were always a possibility with how he was portrayed in the manga, but it never got to that point, instead opting to stick with the "conflicted sense of justice" characterization rather than the "knight templar" that he became in this. Now that isn't to say there won't be something to push him over the edge in the manga at some point, but it seems unlikely for the time being.
And yeah, action was still great throughout. I'm still amazed at what they were able to do in the previous episode with the sense scale in the background while keeping the action in the front too. This final episode wasn't quite as impressive, but still good.
Anyway, the enjoyment I got out of these last few episodes doesn't excuse the pacing issues at the beginning. Suddenly skipping over 60 chapters, then rewinding like 30 was just jarring. Other than that though, this is a solid, yet alternate interpretation of a solid premise.
I still say people should read the manga though.
Basileus777
Member
The way Kouga's arc ended felt entirely unearned. It's not surprising giving how frantic the pacing was and how the show was basically giving the cliff notes for things at times, but
I don't feel that Kouga's character progression justified that leap from broken insane man to dude on top of the world.
Was there really
character progression there? I don't know. His actions always felt random to me. What is his "sense of justice", after all? In that episode with the final test, for example, he went from crazy to helpless to worried to mad to crazy... And then he got out, suited up, and made a move on the girl. His actions never followed any logical sequence.
Jex
Member
On a point unrelated to the Baccano dub (which I haven't actually heard), I feel that even dubs which have good delivery for the key players tend to fall down when it's comes to side and secondary characters and I really can't be having with that. One bad performance for one character will put me off an entire dub because it breaks the immersion.
Let me just go over this one more time.
It's the worst thing you've ever experienced. It contains everything you hate in your anime.
How is this not a 1? What would an anime have to do to be a 1?
It was probably the music that gave it another point.
Jex
Member
I shudder to think.
Basileus777
Member
It wasn't well done or particularly coherent,
but they were showing Kouga's idealism being challenged and how he finally broke down in the last 2 episodes. But to go from there to him being sane and put together again was jarring. I suppose they simply didn't have the time to show the other half of his character arc, but I just found it incredibly stupid to completely flip his character around between two scenes.
Crash Station
Member
Yeah, that was a consequence of cutting out like 80% of the mansion arc, yet keeping the character development he got in it. Really jarring stuff.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Kids on the Slope 10:
What a whirlwind of emotions that episode was. The ending in particular really through me for a loop. They did a great job building up to events and bringing things together, but I just wish that there was a bit more time to breathe. This could have been even better spread out over two episodes.
What a whirlwind of emotions that episode was. The ending in particular really through me for a loop. They did a great job building up to events and bringing things together, but I just wish that there was a bit more time to breathe. This could have been even better spread out over two episodes.
Theonik
Member
I'm guessing the 2 is because of brief. Bonus point and all.
It's pretty good. Even for the minor characters in this clip. And it's not just the acting, but the liberties they take in rewriting the dialogue to match the flavor of an old gangsters flick.
Just found my copy of Helen McCarthy's book 500 Essential Anime Movies, forgot I had it, I got it as a present three years ago and the last time i skimmed through it was probably two years ago. There's some funny stuff in there, I mean, why do you need 500 titles when half of the stuff you list is crap, a lot of it isn't even a movie and you just want to fill up the 500 spots on your list? She names stuff like .hack//Unison, .hack//Intermezzo and .hack//Gift as essential lol.
But the stuff that made me laugh the most is using an image from Bleach for the Jojo's Bizarre Adventures OVA. Funny as hell, how could that kind of mistake happen to someone?
But the stuff that made me laugh the most is using an image from Bleach for the Jojo's Bizarre Adventures OVA. Funny as hell, how could that kind of mistake happen to someone?
Basileus777
Member
Does the dub make Miria and Isaac's voices more bearable?
It most definitely would.
Everyone knows that the TV shows and OVAs are where it's at with anime.
they were pretty awesome in the dub. i don't know how that compares to the original japanese as i've never watched it subbed.
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