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Star Citizen Pre-Alpha: 'Arena Commander' Dogfighting

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I'm having fun proving people wrong on the RSI forums. This guy said the hud didn't have certain stuff on the hud and that one item was useless but I'm proving them wrong. people need to read the manual.

RSI forums, while having some great members and having an awesome staff... is filled with crazy trolls. Really.

Wait, you can lose your ships?

You have to pay for the insurance for the hull replacement... and then any credits of course for all the attachments. Simiarly, your character can of course perma die.
 
"Wait, you can lose your ships?"

In the Persistent Universe, yes. Of course, there's things like insurance, but there's no guarantee if that'll cover any aftermarket modules/weapons and probably won't cover any cargo you're carrying.
 
Just going to repost my impressions I had made on another forum:

Graphics: Lets get this out of the way right now. It runs pretty much butter smooth on my system on very high (I didn't crank it higher yet), I didn't notice any lagginess or anything. CryEngine scales well, so even those I've seen running it on low looked impressive. Things come apart very nicely, though I noticed that if something was even slightly offscreen when hit with a missile the explosion effect was not rendered at all.

Controls: I don't have a HOTAS yet so I'm using mkb, and that definitely took some getting used to. It's sort of like a terrible version of War Thunder's controls, which I always found to be pretty damn good for a flight sim. Think Freelancer, but with an enormous deadzone and the jittery response of War Thunder on Historic (not full realism). There's a ton of arguing on the RSI forums about mkb vs joystick and which is overpowered.

They also need to find a proper balance of "space dust" so you have a better idea of how your ship is moving, because while turning off the engine assist is awesome for complex maneuvering it's not always easy to tell how you're moving vs your orientation.

AI: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Sound: A very mixed bag, the atmospheric sounds like your engines and the voiceover work of the computer are excellent. The guns sound completely impotent, lacking any real punch and drama that cannons the size of a truck should have.

---

In general, after getting used to the controls and key bindings it was "alright" to play for a while. I have major issues with a lot of the presentation part of things, for one the game does not telegraph properly when you're getting shot. Often my first indicator is when my shields have dropped and the computer that never shuts up stops telling me about something overheating to say that I'm taking hull damage now. OR, you notice when your guns stop firing because half your ship is shredded. It's quite terrible.

The AI is just junk. I get killed more by them colliding with me, and once it actually severed my cockpit away from my craft. While this was cool, it took four AI enemies six minutes to land a single hit on me to kill the pilot.

Another annoyance, the HUD is supposed to be projected in the helmet visor, and for some stupid reason the game will often have various hud elements sliding off the screen based on how you're moving. I know it's because they're simulating g-forces, and your guy's head is bouncing around in the helmet, but that's just **** UI design. Realism is no excuse for it. The HUD is also totally cluttered, those missile lock animations should have been canned after their PAX demo but they only add noise to an already over-designed mess.

The point of a HUD is to be informative to the pilot, not to distract constantly from things they should be concentrating on.

Anyway, that's my initial impressions anyway. Will post more as I remember more things. For a pre-pre-pre-alpha it's pretty nice overall, though there's some serious circlejerking going on by RSI when you jump into your ship via all those long winded canned animations, only to find you forgot to pick up the helmet you left sitting on the other side of your hangar because the game never said you should have done that first.

They have a TON of work to do.
 
So if I buy a ship with real money, I can lose it forever, that makes me not want to spend too much on this game or it's ships then, and I was leaning towards a Hornet F7C. How much does insurance cost?

The things I buy now, will I have access to them when the next modules come out and game is finished?
 

Daedardus

Member
So if I buy a ship with real money, I can lose it forever, that makes me not want to spend too much on this game or it's ships then, and I was leaning towards a Hornet F7C. How much does insurance cost?

The things I buy now, will I have access to them when the next modules come out and game is finished?

Insurance is paid with ingame money and will hardly cost anything. It's more a way of making things realistic, so they have a way of giving you a new ship when you broke your old one. And I've never seen an insurance company that works for free.

And yes, but you'll need to buy module passes for each module you want to play, which cost around $5.
 
Insurance is paid with ingame money and will hardly cost anything. It's more a way of making things realistic, so they have a way of giving you a new ship when you broke your old one. And I've never seen an insurance company that works for free.

And yes, but you'll need to buy module passes for each module you want to play, which cost around $5.

So just basically needed to respawn the same model ship right? Imagine losing your shiny virtual ship you just spend 125 real bucks on.

And it's good to know the stuff I buy today will carry over to the next modules/finished game. How many modules are left for release?
 

Daedardus

Member
So just basically needed to respawn the same model ship right? Imagine losing your shiny virtual ship you just spend 125 real bucks on.

And it's good to know the stuff I buy today will carry over to the next modules/finished game. How many modules are left for release?

Well, yeah 'respawn'. It can take some time for the insurance company to deliver a new ship. The ship has to be available in the market (produced by the economy) and the more you wreck your ship, the longer the insurance company takes to give you a new ship. A readily available ship like the 300i should only take a day or so, but larger ships like an Idris may take up to weeks/months. It may also be that your fee raises for a short period if you crash it too much, this is all to up the stakes a bit when flying, so you don't randomly crash into something.

If you are without a ship for some days, you'll still be able to play. You can do missions in a loaner to earn some money, or do other things to rake in some cash. There will be an expansive public transport system so you can still get around in the universe without being able to fly yourself.

The next modules are the first persoon shoote rmodule and the planetside module. After those two and the dogfighting module are finished, the persisent universe (the actual game) will go into beta.
 

CTLance

Member
Living vicariously through y'all. Back at work, so no shooty action for me.

Man, the UI (virtual UI) is ridiculously impractical. So much wasted space. So much superfluous info. Not demanding a Flight simulator authentic jetfighter UI here, but at least make something that looks like it would make sense in the game universe.

Also that robovoice. I needs me some bleeps and bloops, these samples are getting on my nerves.

That missile lockon and enemy scanning reticule thingy annoys the everloving fuck outta me. Waaaay too obnoxious. If you need to show that locking on takes time, add a bar that gradually fills up or an indicator that starts blinking increasingly faster until lock is achieved, at which point it stops blinking and simply remains on. Something like that. Hell, if you're such a fan of circle segments, give me three for scanned and six for full missile lock. You can make these things rotate or grow in or whatever, just don't have them overlap my field of vision. And if you do, at least make it quicker than what we have now. That leisurely pace of the segments, lazily meandering over the screen to the target... aaaagh.

Also, that shield indicator ain't my kind of thing. Just give me a segmented sphere (e.g. two halves for front/back) with color-coding to give an indication of the shield status. White for 100%, green at 75%, yellow at 50%, red at 25% and starting to flash once it gets to 10%. Black for out (disabled/0%). Indicate changes and/or hits by two blinks.

Generally, the UI needs more color and some focus on mission-critical issues. Less style, more function.

I mean, it's not bad, but kinda unwieldy through-and-through. Laaks quite nice when you're not playing, though. I'll admit to that.
 
Well, yeah 'respawn'. It can take some time for the insurance company to deliver a new ship. The ship has to be available in the market (produced by the economy) and the more you wreck your ship, the longer the insurance company takes to give you a new ship. A readily available ship like the 300i should only take a day or so, but larger ships like an Idris may take up to weeks/months. It may also be that your fee raises for a short period if you crash it too much, this is all to up the stakes a bit when flying, so you don't randomly crash into something.

If you are without a ship for some days, you'll still be able to play. You can do missions in a loaner to earn some money, or do other things to rake in some cash. There will be an expansive public transport system so you can still get around in the universe without being able to fly yourself.

The next modules are the first persoon shoote rmodule and the planetside module. After those two and the dogfighting module are finished, the persisent universe (the actual game) will go into beta.

Ah, so before the persistent universe is complete, the in game economy doesn't go into effect? Meaning I will not have to get insurance if I lose my ship in the individual modules preceding the finished product launch, or do they have something else in place, how does it currently work in the dogfighting module? And will you be able to buy ships with the ingame money you earn? Also the wikia mentions that the game will another part called squadron 42, do the same rules apply there? Thanks for the answers, very informative.
 

Daedardus

Member
Ah, so before the persistent universe is complete, the in game economy doesn't go into effect? Meaning I will not have to get insurance if I lose my ship in the individual modules preceding the finished product launch, or do they have something else in place, how does it currently work in the dogfighting module? And will you be able to buy ships with the ingame money you earn? Also the wikia mentions that the game will another part called squadron 42, do the same rules apply there? Thanks for the answers, very informative.

The dogfighting module now is actually advertised as an ingame space sim (yes, a game within a game). There's this company (Original Systems) that produces a virtual reailty video game and all the dogfighting is done within this game. When the persistent universe goes into beta, this company will go bankrupt/lose it's license and therefore all dogfighting is 'real'.

And yes ofcourse all ships can be bought with ingame money. Everything can be bought with ingame money. The devs just found a way to rake in tons of cash to help fund the game and therefore that's why everything is monetised as fuck before the actual game launches.

Squadron 42 is purely a singeplayer component, where you play scripted missions in Wing Commander style. The story is based around the human military where you play as a new recruit. Every package (a package includes credits and beta access in addition to the ship) allows you to play S42 mission as they are released. You'll only play with loaned ships from the game and it doesn't actually matter if you fail seeing as the missions will be highly combatised, so crashing can be frequent.
 
The dogfighting module now is actually advertised as an ingame space sim (yes, a game within a game). There's this company (Original Systems) that produces a virtual reailty video game and all the dogfighting is done within this game. When the persistent universe goes into beta, this company will go bankrupt/lose it's license and therefore all dogfighting is 'real'.

And yes ofcourse all ships can be bought with ingame money. Everything can be bought with ingame money. The devs just found a way to rake in tons of cash to help fund the game and therefore that's why everything is monetised as fuck before the actual game launches.

Squadron 42 is purely a singeplayer component, where you play scripted missions in Wing Commander style. The story is based around the human military where you play as a new recruit. Every package (a package includes credits and beta access in addition to the ship) allows you to play S42 mission as they are released. You'll only play with loaned ships from the game and it doesn't actually matter if you fail seeing as the missions will be highly combatised, so crashing can be frequent.

I assume that's a nod to Origin Systems?

May they rest in peace
 

Daedardus

Member
Yup, Original Systems is even responsible for the 30th century's most popular RPG: Ultimate.

Also, played a bit of free flight with a DualShock 4. It feels so nice, the dead zone also feels smaller than with a X360 controller. Can't verify this objectively though. Will try some actual dogfighting later today, to see if the controller suffices for space combat.
 
Yup, Original Systems is even responsible for the 30th century's most popular RPG: Ultimate.

Also, played a bit of free flight with a DualShock 4. It feels so nice, the dead zone also feels smaller than with a X360 controller. Can't verify this objectively though. Will try some actual dogfighting later today, to see if the controller suffices for space combat.

Haha. That's great. Still haven't had a chance to play Arena Commander since the download was at like 100kb/s but I can't wait to try it out tonight.

Have a feeling I'll be too tempted to throw more money at them when I do though!
 

Daedardus

Member
apparently the 300i cooling system has been recalled.. this is a great way to handle such things:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/f4r3m2s5zknofr/source/300iRecall_v3.pdf

Haha. Had to laugh at this. I like this way of in-game explanations :).

Also, how is the cooling system handled? I flew my Aurora almost into an asteroid and lost some small pieces (actually half my ship :p), but still retained my two lasers. It couldn't stop complaining about overheating. Is it a physical model that stops working if it flies away, or does it just have to do with the damage state (eg heavily damaged = no cooling anymore, regardless of what you lost).
 

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
Ah, so before the persistent universe is complete, the in game economy doesn't go into effect? Meaning I will not have to get insurance if I lose my ship in the individual modules preceding the finished product launch, or do they have something else in place, how does it currently work in the dogfighting module? And will you be able to buy ships with the ingame money you earn? Also the wikia mentions that the game will another part called squadron 42, do the same rules apply there? Thanks for the answers, very informative.

You won't lose any ships permanently in the various modules before release. You respawn for free and it's all just for fun right now. The "losing your ship permanently" thing only applies to the persistent universe once it launches.

(It looks like Daedardus answered your other questions.)



I assume that's a nod to Origin Systems?

May they rest in peace

The PDF manual even says "Original Systems: We Create Galaxies"

That made me smile.
 

Zabojnik

Member
Haha. Had to laugh at this. I like this way of in-game explanations :).

Also, how is the cooling system handled? I flew my Aurora almost into an asteroid and lost some small pieces (actually half my ship :p), but still retained my two lasers. It couldn't stop complaining about overheating. Is it a physical model that stops working if it flies away, or does it just have to do with the damage state (eg heavily damaged = no cooling anymore, regardless of what you lost).

Not sure how it's handled in the current state of the DMF, but every (major) system is supposed to have a physical location / parts inside and outside the ship. So depending what gets hit & where, that's what gets damaged. Although they might be doing a combination of both, I suppose.
 

Daedardus

Member
I'm going to guess this is what will happen with Original Sytems, it will get bought out by this gigantic company called Electrical Apparatus and after that:

lm9JYtT.jpg
 
Thanks for the answers last night LordCanti & Danthrax. Did the Chassis Upgrade to swap out my Aurora LX for a Origin 300i, and then did a ship upgrade to go from the 300i to a 315p. Most excellent.
 

Irobot82

Member
The dogfighting module now is actually advertised as an ingame space sim (yes, a game within a game). There's this company (Original Systems) that produces a virtual reailty video game and all the dogfighting is done within this game. When the persistent universe goes into beta, this company will go bankrupt/lose it's license and therefore all dogfighting is 'real'.

Actually I believe Orignal System's game Arena Commander will continue to exist in the persistent universe and part of CIG's plan is to have tournaments and such. I'm pretty certain it will continue to exist as a way for people to test new load and work on skills without worrying about losing their ships.
 

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
Actually I believe Orignal System's game Arena Commander will continue to exist in the persistent universe and part of CIG's plan is to have tournaments and such. I'm pretty certain it will continue to exist as a way for people to test new load and work on skills without worrying about losing their ships.

Yep. It was the $16 million stretch goal:

Arena mode: The next generation of Wing Commander’s TrainSim allows pilots to test out their combat skills against friends or strangers in a simulation. Gain valuable combat experience without the downside of losing your ship in the game universe! Place bets on competitions across the galaxy.
 
Alright, I have to admit this page in the guide gave me a tear in my eye. I remember pages like this in the Wing Commander manuals. They were bulky documents with technical readouts of all the ships. This is a great nod Chris. Well played.

 
Alright, I have to admit this page in the guide gave me a tear in my eye. I remember pages like this in the Wing Commander manuals. They were bulky documents with technical readouts of all the ships. This is a great nod Chris. Well played.

I still have my original Wing Commander 1 (Tiger Claws Magazine) manual at home. Awesome stuff :).
 

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
The list of content in the stretch goals is loooong. Haven't read through it in a while. Check out that scope:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

The new producer has quite a job ahead.

No kiddin'. When I think of how many ships they have planned for this game, I almost break out into hives. They only have four fully ready ships, and seems to take a team months to get one ready.


Oh. Guess I read something wrong in JumpPoint then. It does make more sense if they keep it, for PvP purposes :).

Original Systems probably will be bought out by a larger company by the initials of E and A, and that larger company will ride the Arena Commander cash cow until it's long dead.
 

Daedardus

Member
Original Systems probably will be bought out by a larger company by the initials of E and A, and that larger company will ride the Arena Commander cash cow until it's long dead.

If they release a new AC every year that will be faster than CGI themselves!

Hmm, is it me or does the eject not always work on a controller? Might be because I'm using a DS4 though. It was rather annoying because I crashed, lost nearly all of my hull save the cockpit, kept on spinning for two minutes and then had to wait three minutes until I reached the boundary. Although it was quite fun. :p
 

Lyon

Member
I'll be giving this a go shortly. Are there default control configs for popular flight sticks? I have an x52 Pro but I probably don't have time to tweak it and fanny around with stuff tonight, so it would be handy to know in advance if I should just go to bed :) Cheers.
 
I mistakenly misread one of you guys earlier and thought you meant that if you had an Arena Commander pass that they would give you a loaner ship if you didn't have one, so I totally bought a pass without even owning a ship....shit

Guess I'll have to look into getting one, which would be recommended for a newcomer of the genre?
 

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!

The Avenger isn't flyable yet. Avenger owners get a loaner 300i.

The three flyable ships right now are the Aurora, 300i and Hornet. The Avenger and Cutlass are coming soon — sooner than the Freelancer and Constellation, anyway.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Man. I don't know much about this genre, but Star Citizen strikes me as a PC game of the old mentality -- the mentality of designing gameplay around not giving a fuck about technology constraints. It feels like they're trying to cram in everything they possibly can and not compromise anywhere. It's probably what Ultima Underworld, Ultima VII, or the first two Elder Scrolls felt like in their time.

Very few PC games feel like they were designed that way today. ArmA maybe. Also possibly Crysis 1.
 

epmode

Member
It's very much an Origin game, yes.

I always liked how older PC games were designed to overtax even the highest end hardware. You simply couldn't play at max settings at launch. Going back to old games with better hardware was good times.
 

Ianan

Member
I'm loving what I've been playing so far!
Just wanted to ask about buying new ships though. I originally pledged via kickstarter and have the Lifetime Insurance on my RSI Constellation, will any ships I pledge for new also have the LTI?
 

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
I'm loving what I've been playing so far!
Just wanted to ask about buying new ships though. I originally pledged via kickstarter and have the Lifetime Insurance on my RSI Constellation, will any ships I pledge for new also have the LTI?

Nope. No new ships have LTI anymore. They stopped selling ships with LTI around the end of November.



Sorry I meant how do you get out of your seat to walk around your ship?

I don't think you can yet.
 
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