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[epmode]

Aiee, I gave the wrong link in my last post. The multicrew presentation in front of an audience is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9rqPp_Cyk4

They're particularly concerned with demonstrating player movement inside of a moving ship.

 

[Arulan]

Aiee, I gave the wrong link in my last post. The multicrew presentation in front of an audience is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9rqPp_Cyk4

They're particularly concerned with demonstrating player movement inside of a moving ship.

I noticed and found the correct link, but thanks all the same. I have to say, the non-edited multi-crew video is extremely impressive. I need to try the Pre-Alpha again now that I have a HOTAS. I bought a CH Fighterstick and Pro Throttle earlier this year for Elite: Dangerous, and Star Citizen further down the line.

 

[Effect]

Really liking that you can land in free flight in the Merlin and actually get out of it. If there is one thing I really hated about the Aurora is not being able to eject (think they changed that) and this. Still not sure I want to pay $20 for this.

Would be nice to try out the other ships.

Edit: Okay created a new account to take advantage of the Gamescom offer.

Edit 2: Hey I can load with the Aurora and get out of the cockpit. That wasn't working last night. Hmm.

 

[GearDraxon]

Well considering the Merlin is only known to be dockable to the Constellation so far, and the fact that it doesn't have a quantum drive - let alone a jump drive... I'd say it'd be a waste of money outside of having it usable in AC and to look at in the hanger. That said, at $20, it's not exactly a wallet breaking waste of money.

Yeah, that makes sense. We don't know if ships like the FreeMAX will be able to hold the Merlin, even if it will totally fit. It'd kinda be silly to have that tiny ship on its own.

Spoiler

I bought the Merlin.

 

[wsippel]

Well considering the Merlin is only known to be dockable to the Constellation so far, and the fact that it doesn't have a quantum drive - let alone a jump drive... I'd say it'd be a waste of money outside of having it usable in AC and to look at in the hanger. That said, at $20, it's not exactly a wallet breaking waste of money.

The Carrack will be able to carry a Merlin, that at least has been confirmed. Makes sense though as the Carrack has a proper internal hangar and should therefore be able to carry anything that fits through the door.

 

[staticneuron]

The Carrack will be able to carry a Merlin, that at least has been confirmed. Makes sense though as the Carrack has a proper internal hangar and should therefore be able to carry anything that fits through the door.

The Carrack is supposed to have its own specially designed scout ship. The 890 will also have its own. It wouldn't make any sense to buy a merlin for those when they come with the ship. Like some constellations come with the merlin. So I imagine it would be as Zalusithix states.

 

[KKRT00]

You wouldn't control each individual thrusters, rather on planes like aircraft in lieu of ailerons and elevators. With proper control implementation you should not *need* assistance to do simple flight and maneuvering.


G-forces right now are arbitrary at this point varying on the current balance pass. People have done calculations on the RSI forums figuring around 20-25gs in lateral movement alone.


Edit: If my space-fu is right, MAV thrusters are controlled in relation to the location. Groups are in terms of lateral, dorsal, ventral. Without IFCS you would rely more on movement and counter movements to make smooth turns.

Sure and You would crash in the first attempt of doing dogfight near any asteroid field.
I understand You, but it would make for such a slow direction change that no one would think this is fun or even viable in the long run. I think the best example of similar behavior would be controls of the rescue capsule from movie Gravity.

 

[Dictator93]

More FPS porn....I MEAN SCREENSHOTS.

More at the link with this weeks FPS update. If I understand correctly, they are making great progress on refactoring the animations to the newer cryengine rig.

 

[Ryde3]

Please help - I downloaded the Arena for the free weekend, and i'm in the hangar, there's plenty of ships - how do I start playing???

 

[Dictator93]

Please help - I downloaded the Arena for the free weekend, and i'm in the hangar, there's plenty of ships - how do I start playing???

Hit escape, and access electronic access to play arena commander. Either that, or sit in the virtual reality chair at the front part of the hangar. It looks like a big white/grey wheel.

 

[Daedardus]

More FPS porn....I MEAN SCREENSHOTS.
More at the link with this weeks FPS update. If I understand correctly, they are making great progress on refactoring the animations to the newer cryengine rig.

Wrong link, matey.

Seems like there is still a bit of stuff to do before it gets released. The fact that F42 engineers are getting put on confirms my fears a bit that Illfonic are not so competent at the job they are doing. I hope the merge doesn't delay the release of the social module any further.

 

[KKRT00]

I was thinking about SC campaign a little and reminded myself the uber hilarious post from original SC campaign thread.
This was in context that Chris Roberts couldnt get publishers to fund his game.

This is where Chris Roberts needs to hook up with Nintendo.

Yeah ... what a suggestion. Check next page with responses to this guy.
What is funny that going by Nintendo recent policies i dunno if their next-next generation would be even able to run SC lol

Ps. Whole thread is hilarious with complains about RSI website and they didnt use kickstarter

 

[Dictator93]

Wrong link, matey.

Seems like there is still a bit of stuff to do before it gets released. The fact that F42 engineers are getting put on confirms my fears a bit that Illfonic are not so competent at the job they are doing. I hope the merge doesn't delay the release of the social module any further.

Thx, I updated the link.

I think the merge won't mess up much with the social module because they (as they mention in the report) worked on and completed the weaponless movement set first. I think, unless I am mistaken, that is what the social module will use animation-wise.

 

[Kabouter]

Man, just checked out the Merlin in the hangar (since it's there due to the fly free shit), the gap in detail between that on the one hand and my Freelancer MAX on the other is pretty damn huge. If they can bring up that to a similar level of detail, I'll be damn pleased

 

[Danthrax]

Wrong link, matey.

Seems like there is still a bit of stuff to do before it gets released. The fact that F42 engineers are getting put on confirms my fears a bit that Illfonic are not so competent at the job they are doing. I hope the merge doesn't delay the release of the social module any further.

It's almost as if CIG shouldn't have gone with a no-name indie studio.

 

[epmode]

It's almost as if CIG shouldn't have gone with a no-name indie studio.

I guess it must have seemed like a good idea at the time. It was easier to go with an existing company than attract even more talent and build another studio.

I was hoping that Illfonic was secretly a good developer forced to work on shitty projects.

 

[wsippel]

The Carrack is supposed to have its own specially designed scout ship. The 890 will also have its own. It wouldn't make any sense to buy a merlin for those when they come with the ship. Like some constellations come with the merlin. So I imagine it would be as Zalusithix states.

Of course it makes sense: if you prefer the Merlin to whatever comes with the Carrack. And as I wrote, CIG confirmed it. I'm also pretty sure no ship will come with a parasite ship in the actual game. Wouldn't make much sense.

 

[Zabojnik]

It's almost as if CIG shouldn't have gone with a no-name indie studio.

I guess it must have seemed like a good idea at the time. It was easier to go with an existing company than attract even more talent and build another studio.

I was hoping that Illfonic was secretly a good developer forced to work on shitty projects.

Speculation, pure, vile speculation.

 

[tuxfool]

Speculation, pure, vile speculation.

Yeah, I'm not sure of the basis for such speculation.

 

[Dictator93]

I really would not put the onus on Ilfonic. Merged 1st and 3rd person animations that also have physical constraints (jukes, weight shifts, stop starts, momentum, etc) arent exactly easy. Even ARMA 3 which has linked assets and animations doesn't go into the depth of physicalization that CIG is going for (ARMA3s animations are more mechanical and definitely not flowing well into one another).

And to be fair, I did not think Ilfonics last game sucked or anything. It could have been better, but that would have required THQ not going under and destroying any chance for the game being patched

 

[epmode]

Speculation, pure, vile speculation.

Of course it is. You can't deny that Illfonic has an awful track record though (even if it might have been the result of budgetary/publisher failures), and that they were brought on when CIG was struggling with studio expansion.

I suspect that it will work out in the end. I hope it will, anyway!

 

[Zabojnik]

Of course it is. You can't deny that Illfonic has an awful track record though (even if it might have been the result of budgetary/publisher failures), and that they were brought on when CIG was struggling with studio expansion.

I suspect that it will work out in the end. I hope it will, anyway!

I wasn't being completely serious. What Dictator said, basically. While Illfonic did (do) seem to be a little overwhelmed by the whole thing, I'm sure they'll get the job done one way or another. If it means bringing on board people from the other CIG studios, so be it. While I don't necessarily trust Illfonic, I generally trust Robert's quality standards. I'm sure they'll get there in time.

 

[Dictator93]

I wasn't being completely serious. What Dictator said, basically. While Illfonic did (do) seem to be a little overwhelmed by the whole thing, I'm sure they'll get the job done one way or another. If it means bringing on board people from the other CIG studios, so be it. While I don't necessarily trust Illfonic, I generally trust Robert's quality standards. I'm sure they'll get there in time.

Your statement about CR's quality standards resonate I think. It seems out of character for him to do something half-assed or for it to be janky in the end. I am pretty sure the final animations and locomotion will be pretty mind blowing when they are completed.

The time that will take is a whole other question though (as always with this project).

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Sure and You would crash in the first attempt of doing dogfight near any asteroid field.
I understand You, but it would make for such a slow direction change that no one would think this is fun or even viable in the long run. I think the best example of similar behavior would be controls of the rescue capsule from movie Gravity.

Would be good thing if you had to invest in piloting the ships. That's why there is a learning curve. With a proper learning curve there is also greater reward for more mastery of ship's mechanics. If you see someone pulling off complex maneuvering it should be a easy indicator they are very skilled. That level of reward and investment does not exist in SC as it stands. A game where you can master everything in 1 session is no fun. Plus dog-fighting in an asteroid field should be a perilous endeavor regardless of skill.

Sure, once you start out if would be harder to get without any aides but there should also be a measured advantage of mastering the control of the ship. Flight assists are a crutch and serve to impeded full control of the crafts, the more control pilots have over the ships the better it is for the game. A good flight model does not need assists to work, the problem CIG seems to think they are necessary.

 

[Daedardus]

I really would not put the onus on Ilfonic. Merged 1st and 3rd person animations that also have physical constraints (jukes, weight shifts, stop starts, momentum, etc) arent exactly easy. Even ARMA 3 which has linked assets and animations doesn't go into the depth of physicalization that CIG is going for (ARMA3s animations are more mechanical and definitely not flowing well into one another).

And to be fair, I did not think Ilfonics last game sucked or anything. It could have been better, but that would have required THQ not going under and destroying any chance for the game being patched

I know the work isn't easy. I also know that Illfonic are not bad per se. They are people who have had a high level of education and at least experience in the industry and working with development tools. They are not some wannabe script kiddies that only knows how to code Visual Basic and use RPG Maker.

However, when it comes to high skilled work, competence means just how much better you are at creatively solving problems that appear on your way. Highly competent developers can tackle problems faster while at the same time avoiding creating new problems. They work more efficiently, which is one of the most crucial factors in high skilled work. I still think all in all Illfonic wasn't the best idea for the game they are now making, but I can understand that the first scope required a more economic solution. I don't know which studio would be better for them that is available.

 

[Dictator93]

Would be good thing if you had to invest in piloting the ships. That's why there is a learning curve. With a proper learning curve there is also greater reward for more mastery of ship's mechanics. If you see someone pulling off complex maneuvering it should be a easy indicator they are very skilled. That level of reward and investment does not exist in SC as it stands. A game where you can master everything in 1 session is no fun. Plus dog-fighting in an asteroid field should be a perilous endeavor regardless of skill.

Sure, once you start out if would be harder to get without any aides but there should also be a measured advantage of mastering the control of the ship. Flight assists are a crutch and serve to impeded full control of the crafts, the more control pilots have over the ships the better it is for the game. A good flight model does not need assists to work, the problem CIG seems to think they are necessary.

You mastered the ins and outs of turning on and off coupled mode in one session? With or without all the assists on?

I must say, you must be very good at games then, it took me quite a while to understand how my ship handled and which corners I could take in which mode. Even with gsafe and comstab being on.

BUt hell, I am all for the game being more complex and for allowing as many flight options as is realistically possible given the ships.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

You mastered the ins and outs of turning on and off coupled mode in one session? With or without all the assists on?
.

That is because the game is aim based right now. I can cut down my VS time by ~60% by using IM on mouse with zero practice. There is no measurable reward for using anything but IM which has auto smoothening for flight.

The current state of gameplay is like this:

http://youtu.be/GJyNL_m9ZOE


There is no need to actually fly the ships to fight. Just aim with the throttle set to push you along and aiming does the rest. So yes anyone and everyone can master the game in one session.

 

[Dictator93]

That is because the game is aim based right now. I can cut down my VS time by ~60% by using IM on mouse with zero practice. There is no measurable reward for using anything but IM which has auto smoothening for flight.

The current state of gameplay is like this:

http://youtu.be/GJyNL_m9ZOE


There is no need to actually fly the ships to fight. Just aim with the throttle set to push you along and aiming does the rest. So yes anyone and everyone can master the game in one session.

You are mainly talking about the prevelence of gimble aiming then and less so the complexity of ship manueverability inputs right? As I see it, that is a different issue than how complex ship movement is interms of thrust controls.

To put it out there, I play with HOTAS so I have quite a different experience.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

You are mainly talking about the prevelence of gimble aiming then and less so the complexity of ship manueverability inputs right? As I see it, that is a different issue than how complex ship movement is interms of thrust controls.

To put it out there, I play with HOTAS so I have quite a different experience.

Both, other dude was talking about needing assists which is apart of the flight model for the game. I was talking about how there is no reward or viability for removing the assists, thus negatively effecting the flight model of the game. That will effect how the game is played long term. No it's not not gimble mechanics, but how IM mode works stacking axis. The problem seems to be core philosophy issue how assists are implemented in the game.

Your second point is exactly what is so wrong with how CIG is treating their core gameplay. Depending on how you play, it is a different game. Also it can put you at severe disadvantage. This is it's so frustrating to me. It's basically a Ferrari that looks, smells, tastes like one but has two hamsters in wheels for the engine.

 

[tuxfool]

Both, other dude was talking about needing assists which is apart of the flight model for the game. I was talking about how there is no reward or viability for removing the assists, thus negatively effecting the flight model of the game. That will effect how the game is played long term. No it's not not gimble mechanics, but how IM mode works stacking axis. The problem seems to be core philosophy issue how assists are implemented in the game.

Your second point is exactly what is so wrong with how CIG is treating their core gameplay. Depending on how you play, it is a different game. Also it can put you at severe disadvantage. This is it's so frustrating to me. It's basically a Ferrari that looks, smells, tastes like one but has two hamsters in wheels for the engine.

If they insist on going this route, they should at least have two different leaderboards and a toggle to prevent mouse users from showing up in the persistent universe.

 

[staticneuron]

Of course it makes sense: if you prefer the Merlin to whatever comes with the Carrack. And as I wrote, CIG confirmed it. I'm also pretty sure no ship will come with a parasite ship in the actual game. Wouldn't make much sense.

Yes you can fit these ships in those other ships but as I pointed out before it would be pointless because when you acquire those ships they should have their own version related to design and function of each respective ship. Just because you "could" fit a merlin in them doesn't make it logical.

Just for more clarification, episode, 52 of ATR, the designers talked about the redesign of the connie and the docking station so there is no more tube. So the merlain is going to look like it is actually apart of the ship. If this design ethos is kept then that might be an even greater reason not to try to mix and match ships.

The jumps scout

Looks larger and might have a different docking config and the Carrack as well is much larger and might have a more impressive/useful ship

 

[Raticus79]

Both, other dude was talking about needing assists which is apart of the flight model for the game. I was talking about how there is no reward or viability for removing the assists, thus negatively effecting the flight model of the game. That will effect how the game is played long term. No it's not not gimble mechanics, but how IM mode works stacking axis. The problem seems to be core philosophy issue how assists are implemented in the game.

Your second point is exactly what is so wrong with how CIG is treating their core gameplay. Depending on how you play, it is a different game. Also it can put you at severe disadvantage. This is it's so frustrating to me. It's basically a Ferrari that looks, smells, tastes like one but has two hamsters in wheels for the engine.

Just watched this video to get some background on the IM special axis issue.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...ook-ahead-joystick-and-interactive-mouse-vjoy

Interesting how the mouse has this smoothed response.

I think if joystick users really wanted that, an AutoHotKey script could be created right now that would set mouse inputs as a function of your joystick inputs for a custom combination of both with whatever curves you want. For mouse users wanting more control, they could set up a similar script and use VJoy for a virtual joystick with its inputs fed by a similar AutoHotKey script based on your mouse position.

If they took away mouse axis stacking, it wouldn't matter because people could put it back with the methods I described.

It looks like the issue is a lack of an amplification option for look-ahead mode for joystick users determining how much your thrust is changed based on your inputs. That mouse IM effectively has one which is set to a low setting.

It's been an interesting discussion to watch. I think requiring a HOTAS to compete would certainly reduce the market size. On the other hand, I think there's a better solution out there than what's currently leading to putting a trackball on a joystick. The key is to add very detailed options for mapping everything that's available with custom responsiveness curves.

 

[RenegadeXV8]

Why does CIG insist on having manual gimbal aiming, then?

As long as that's a thing, mouse will always be far superior to a joystick. Reminds me of MechWarrior Online.

 

[tuxfool]

Just watched this video to get some background on the IM special axis issue.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...ook-ahead-joystick-and-interactive-mouse-vjoy

Interesting how the mouse has this smoothed response.

I think if joystick users really wanted that, an AutoHotKey script could be created right now that would set mouse inputs as a function of your joystick inputs for a custom combination of both with whatever curves you want. For mouse users wanting more control, they could set up a similar script and use VJoy for a virtual joystick with its inputs fed by a similar AutoHotKey script based on your mouse position.

If they took away mouse axis stacking, it wouldn't matter because people could put it back with the methods I described.

It looks like the issue is a lack of an amplification option for look-ahead mode for joystick users determining how much your thrust is changed based on your inputs. That mouse IM effectively has one which is set to a low setting.

It's been an interesting discussion to watch. I think requiring a HOTAS to compete would certainly reduce the market size. On the other hand, I think there's a better solution out there than what's currently leading to putting a trackball on a joystick. The key is to add very detailed options for mapping everything that's available with custom responsiveness curves.

That video was really interesting. Basically what is highlighted here is that a mouse user in interactive mode has smoothing, but then cannot jink like lookahead users. However the ability to jink doesn't really add advantages against interactive users with gimbals that seem to train immediately on targets.

This is basically behind the complaint that the complex flight model doesn't nullify the advantages presented by interactive mode.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

If they took away mouse axis stacking, it wouldn't matter because people could put it back with the methods I described.

It looks like the issue is a lack of an amplification option for look-ahead mode for joystick users determining how much your thrust is changed based on your inputs. That mouse IM effectively has one which is set to a low setting.

It's been an interesting discussion to watch. I think requiring a HOTAS to compete would certainly reduce the market size. On the other hand, I think there's a better solution out there than what's currently leading to putting a trackball on a joystick. The key is to add very detailed options for mapping everything that's available with custom responsiveness curves.

User scripts is something Punkbuster (or whatever CIG would use) would cover if I'm not mistaken.

The game does not need to require a stick or pad, to be honest if they simply decoupled the aim and flight and had a specialized mode for aiming only would be ideal.

People who have tested their baseline VS times wind up with pretty even times with relative (VJoy) and sticks/ pads. If CIG were to do more with their Vjoy implementation like deadzone management and the same curve customization afforded to sticks it would be near perfect.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Why does CIG insist on having manual gimbal aiming, then?

As long as that's a thing, mouse will always be far superior to a joystick. Reminds me of MechWarrior Online."


They don't care. Or rather, they prefer it how it is. Who knows? But slapping on more bandaid systems and mechanics to bring other control methods up to par clearly isn't the solution.

 

[Kabouter]

Why does CIG insist on having manual gimbal aiming, then?

As long as that's a thing, mouse will always be far superior to a joystick. Reminds me of MechWarrior Online.

And if they take out manual gimbal aiming, then suddenly joystick is always far superior to mice. I'd rather they find some way to actually balance things.

 

[KKRT00]

After multicrew demo i dont understand this talk.
What about ships that have manned turrets? Everyone will use mouse to control them, instead of pad or HOTAS.
How change to gimbals in single seated ships will help when You still will have multicrew ships?
People need to look at balance in the broader scale.

----

Would be good thing if you had to invest in piloting the ships. That's why there is a learning curve. With a proper learning curve there is also greater reward for more mastery of ship's mechanics. If you see someone pulling off complex maneuvering it should be a easy indicator they are very skilled. That level of reward and investment does not exist in SC as it stands. A game where you can master everything in 1 session is no fun. Plus dog-fighting in an asteroid field should be a perilous endeavor regardless of skill.

Sure, once you start out if would be harder to get without any aides but there should also be a measured advantage of mastering the control of the ship. Flight assists are a crutch and serve to impeded full control of the crafts, the more control pilots have over the ships the better it is for the game. A good flight model does not need assists to work, the problem CIG seems to think they are necessary.

I'm pretty sure You arent even close to mastering flight controls today.
You wouldnt want to full control over thrusters, it would make game slow, unnecessary hard and annoying.
You also have to remember that to ship control, You have shield management, counter measure management, heat management and You need to track all ships around, how many hands do You have to control those and proper thrusting?
There is a lot of depth in combat from those alone, adding another unnecessary layer just because, seems like completely bad idea.

Also name a good space ship flight model without assists, please.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"People need to look at balance in the broader scale."


On the contrary, you need to understand that a change to single-seat ship mechanics need not apply to multi-crew ship turrets. A crewmate in a turret seat is not the same situation, seeing as how they're not also piloting the ship which is the crux of the problem.

 

[KKRT00]

My point is that there wont ever be balance. You can nerf gimbals in single seated ships, to make hotas equal or better solution to mouse and keyboard, but You will be in disadvantage in any other scenario that combines two ships or multicrew ship.
Weapon damage balance and all defensive measures [EW, shields, heat] will have more impact in general scenarios, than hotas vs mouse controls.
As in EVE, one to one combat will be very rare in PU.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"My point is that there wont ever be balance. You can nerf gimbals in single seated ships, to make hotas equal or better solution to mouse and keyboard, but You will be in disadvantage in any other scenario that combines two ships or multicrew ship.
Weapon damage balance and all defensive measures [EW, shields, heat] will have more impact in general scenarios, than hotas vs mouse controls.
As in EVE, one to one combat will be very rare in PU."



Being at a disadvantage due to numbers or because of ship disparity is one thing. Being at a disadvantage because of a control method that undermines the core aspect of the game (piloting spaceships) is something else entirely.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

And if they take out manual gimbal aiming, then suddenly joystick is always far superior to mice. I'd rather they find some way to actually balance things.

Gimbal aiming should still be in the game, it should not fly the ship. Separating the actions will do wonders in bringing controllers into balance.

After multicrew demo i dont understand this talk.
What about ships that have manned turrets? Everyone will use mouse to control them, instead of pad or HOTAS.
How change to gimbals in single seated ships will help when You still will have multicrew ships?
People need to look at balance in the broader scale.

----


You wouldnt want to full control over thrusters, it would make game slow, unnecessary hard and annoying.
You also have to remember that to ship control, You have shield management, counter measure management, heat management and You need to track all ships around, how many hands do You have to control those and proper thrusting?


Also name a good space ship flight model without assists, please.

Turrets don't fly ships, it is not the same thing at all. Aiming the guns and having the ship follow cursor is the issue.

Systems and countermeasure management is nothing new. Those are all 1-2 touch things to manage.People fly just fine in sims with far more complex engine and avionics management. If they don't want to learn it then assists can help, but it wouldn't be as good as mastering it yourself.


Actually I'd love for MAV thrusters to have settings like trim for aircraft. Have something like combat (higher powered), standard, and landing/docking (low powered).

 

[Azulsky]

So just started playing with the gamescom pass. I guess as full disclosure I have previously given this game wide berth due to the pledge model and the seeming lack of scope for what constitutes a finished product when they kept expanding as more money was donated.

I'm currently playing with the super mouse control mode as its the only way to actually get to look around as if you had a head. Looking forward to VR in a few years time.

I guess my initial reaction is planes 2.0 in space with the way the IFCS modulates thrusters to continuously resolve your nose and thrust vectors. You do get some fun stuff out of decoupling for maneuvers

From a spaceship standpoint I think my favorite is the Hornet series. The Merlin is cool but the damage differential is not high enough for the centerline cannon. I think they could do better for ship design, they should branch out and try crazy stuff instead of sticking to plane-esque. Maybe they will for more specialized parasite craft. I feel like thats okay because the Merlin does have a crazy speed advantage over the other ships with gimballed setups. How much primary axis deltaV matters for dogfighting is still up in the air for me, seems like a ship with a more dimensionally balanced thrust might be better.

For dogfighter controls it seems that it might be more intuitive to me to use dual joysticks than it would be for the standard HOTAS setup. That still leaves you no easy way to control any gimballed weapons like on the Super Hornet.

Looking forward to see past the dogfighting module. This game looks good but what are they shooting for, late 2017 at this point?

 

[Zabojnik]

Looking forward to see past the dogfighting module. This game looks good but what are they shooting for, late 2017 at this point?

2019 and beyond.

It's almost impossible to tell at this point. The Gamescom demo is proof that some of the core systems (double precision, local physics grids, ship boarding, etc.) are slowly but surely coming together, but beyond that ... My guess is a year from now for the first part of Squadron 42 and 2018 for the PU (a somewhat 'complete' version of it anyway).

 

[Kabouter]

Gimbal aiming should still be in the game, it should not fly the ship. Separating the actions will do wonders in bringing controllers into balance.

How would this work with mouse/kb? Wouldn't flying with a keyboard be insanely awkward?

 

[tuxfool]

How would this work with mouse/kb? Wouldn't flying with a keyboard be insanely awkward?

either make it modal (with a modifier key), or require a secondary device.

 

[Azulsky]

How would this work with mouse/kb? Wouldn't flying with a keyboard be insanely awkward?

either make it modal (with a modifier key), or require a secondary device.

You would also probably want to have keyboard keys to give you roll control on the modifier layer if you need to spin while gimballing to keep on target.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

How would this work with mouse/kb? Wouldn't flying with a keyboard be insanely awkward?

Ideally it would a mode like decoupled where you can pop in and aim, then pop out and fly.

You would also probably want to have keyboard keys to give you roll control on the modifier layer if you need to spin while gimballing to keep on target.

This too.

 

[Burny]

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Has any of you played Elite? It also has gimbaled weapons, but mouse vs. HOTAS vs. gamepad discussions are not among all the "hot topics" associated with Elite (the usual lack of content etc.). Having played it with both, mouse and HOTAS, I can confirm that either model work really well in Elite. I'd take that as indication that Frontier did something right with their model. What's stopping Star Citizen from implementing a similar model?

For reference: There is no direct gimbal/turret control in Elite, yet (maybe there will be, if multicrews will ever be implemented). Such weapons are all AI controlled and follow the currently selected target by themselves. Of course, their movements are slightly limited and not instantaneous. They can also be "confused", if the opponents ship uses chaff or electric counter measures. In contrast to Star Citizen's ship designs though, every weapon hardpoint in Elite can either be fitted with a gimbaled weapon or a fixed version. The fixed versions are cheaper, use less energy and have a slightly increased damage output.

 

[tuxfool]

What's stopping Star Citizen from implementing a similar model?

Stubbornness.