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[Zalusithix]

Ugh...

While I have no idea if I'd hit anything using auch a trackball, I'd still be far Mir confident in using that for gimbals then an analogue stick slapped on a Joystick. I already can't aim with those on a gamepad if it isn't for aim assist in consoles. Not to mention aiming over long distances in a Space sim.

Preferences etc.

That's why I'm considering such a Frankenstein setup. Not that I'm anywhere near a competent shooter player (still sad this is what star Citizen will seemingly boil down to), but at least with a mouse, I feel like it's my fault rather than me being unable to do quick, precise minuscule movements on a stick with little travel, in order to bring a pointer across a huge image onto a small target.

Have you ever used a trackball for aiming? Just curious as you seem to have confidence in that.

Anyhow, my opinion of input method is based mostly on mechanics. Unlike with a mouse where movement is on an infinite plane (which trackballs emulate), a stick has a limited range. In this case, the gimbals are the same way and can only aim within a range in front of where your ship is pointed. You can't actually *look* with them, so the movement of the targeting crosshair can be more or less mapped 1:1 with stick movement. Move the stick to the upper right, and the crosshair maps to the max up and right as it can go for that ship (or at least the max that it can go for the given viewport). Immediately move it to half way to the left and your crosshair moves back half way across the possible movement range. This is quite different from shooters on consoles where the stick controls the actual viewport, and a full left or right is a "you'll move at this speed" instead of a "you'll aim at this location".

The recentering of a stick is also a boon as your gimbal aim is going to be a delta of ship direction. The aim will naturally pull back to true. A trackball would require constant manual correction in every direction.

 

[SmartBase]

It's all anecdotal of course but I have a CH Products Pro Throttle and as good as the analogue stick is from my experience using it for gimbals doesn't work that well, it's much better used for strafing. A trackball on the joystick might work if the game periodically centres your aim but it doesn't sound very intuitive.

 

[Zalusithix]

It's all anecdotal of course but I have a CH Products Pro Throttle and as good as the analogue stick is from my experience using it for gimbals doesn't work that well, it's much better used for strafing. A trackball on the joystick might work if the game periodically centres your aim but it doesn't sound very intuitive.

Honestly, I have no idea how the current gimbal control by <X device> while flying by HOTAS works in game aside from TrackIR. In the case of TrackIR, it is an absolute position aim method (absolute on a curve, but still absolute). Is the analog control like I mentioned where it is a 1:1 quadrant mapped? Or is it a situation where you move the stick in a given direction so the crosshairs move in that direction - the speed of which is dictated by the stick displacement? If it's the second, I can see why it wouldn't work well. If it's the first, then I don't see anything working if that doesn't. Trackballs don't have any advantage against a stick in the first situation. Only VR/TrackIR does due to the larger "throw" allowing more fine tuned mapping, and a more natural interface for multitasking to boot.

Edit: As far as strafing goes, I ideally want that controlled by the throttle handle, not by a secondary input like a stick on the handle. Basically allow the throttle to move in a 3D space. Move it left to strafe left, up to go up, etc. Have some centering force and/or detente for centering. That's probably too much to ask for from a production product though.

 

[SmartBase]

Honestly, I have no idea how the current gimbal control by <X device> while flying by HOTAS works in game aside from TrackIR. In the case of TrackIR, it is an absolute position aim method (absolute on a curve, but still absolute). Is the analog control like I mentioned where it is a 1:1 quadrant mapped? Or is it a situation where you move the stick in a given direction so the crosshairs move in that direction - the speed of which is dictated by the stick displacement? If it's the second, I can see why it wouldn't work well. If it's the first, then I don't see anything working if that doesn't. Trackballs don't have any advantage against a stick in the first situation. Only VR/TrackIR does due to the larger "throw" allowing more fine tuned mapping, and a more natural interface for multitasking to boot.

Edit: As far as strafing goes, I ideally want that controlled by the throttle handle, not by a secondary input like a stick on the handle. Basically allow the throttle to move in a 3D space. Move it left to strafe left, up to go up, etc. Have some centering force and/or detente for centering. That's probably too much to ask for from a production product though.

This was a while ago but I just remapped the two analogue axes to be recognised as a centred mouse input in the CH software and then disabled mouse input for flight in-game so only aiming was done with it. I'm pretty sure it was using absolute positioning as moving the stick around made the crosshair do the same. I didn't delve too far into it because I missed the strafe too much.

 

[Dictator93]

I don't buy into the idea that the joystick's trackball is a good solution to gimbal aiming. Controlling gimbals with a trackball is already clumsy compared to a mouse. Controlling them with a thumb based trackball in a joystick is going to be awkward at best, and next to useless at worst. Besides, my thumb is already busy with other functions. I'd either have to remap damn near everything to be controlled by the left hand, or stop doing them to aim.

I'd rather have a good stick to do the things the stick is supposed to do rather than have a gimmick embedded into a mediocre one.

If the gimbal aim has to be controlled by something in a HOTAS, I'm partial to an analog stick on the throttle.

I can only agree.

 

[Raticus79]

Took a shot at setting ammo counts with cheat engine. Worked fine for single player, but in co-op it was getting overriden by the server, so that's a good sign.

Had me worried for a minute there when it worked for solo, lol.

 

[Rephin]

We can see our stats on the leaderboard too:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/arena-commander/leaderboard?mode=VC
(filter to NeoGAF)

Wow, didn't realize there were leaderboards for AC, and I didn't realize I was on them, lol.

 

[Burny]

Have you ever used a trackball for aiming? Just curious as you seem to have confidence in that.

No, I haven't, at least for more than a few seconds. But I still have more confidence in the usability of a trackball for aiming than in an analogue stick at least. A trackball offers more room for precise movements at least, not just the few degrees you get on an analogue stick. And I already know that I'm bad with an analogue stick, so there's practically only room for improvement.

Not that I plan on finding out, as I said. A mouse it is, unless they suddenly decide that they'd rather shift the game's focus on ship piloting rather than on gimbal aiming. Which is increasingly unlikely, considering they're already trying to build the hardware around the latter.

 

[Raticus79]

User scripts is something Punkbuster (or whatever CIG would use) would cover if I'm not mistaken.

The game does not need to require a stick or pad, to be honest if they simply decoupled the aim and flight and had a specialized mode for aiming only would be ideal.

People who have tested their baseline VS times wind up with pretty even times with relative (VJoy) and sticks/ pads. If CIG were to do more with their Vjoy implementation like deadzone management and the same curve customization afforded to sticks it would be near perfect.

Following up on this one, here's a video showing the kind of thing I was talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eI7_j4tNy4
VJoy with some custom axis setup.

Not too much longer until we can give that virtual trackball mode on Steam controller a shot.

Has anyone got Star Citizen working on their Rift DK2? I have VorpX but really hated the way it worked for GTA. It was like faking 3D vision's effects on a virtual cinema screen.

 

[CitizenVectron]

MechWarrior: Online has gimballed aiming (you can aim the arms of the mech independently of the main torso), and people with a mouse beat joystick users every time, so there is no point in using a joystick.

I don't see a way to counter this other than using some sort of lock-on dynamic for joysticks that kind of auto-aim, but then that takes the skill out of the flying.

 

[Zunja]

Thankfully I'm just gonna do transport and have my friends escort/turret. That means I get to sit at my station with a joystick since flying should be about equal.

I have a couple of friends who are upset about it and I can agree that it sucks. It always seemed weird that such a hardcore sim would make it better to not use a joystick.

 

[Raticus79]

Big infrastructure change coming up. This'll be interesting.

Hi everyone!

We'll be bringing the entire Live service down tonight at 8pm CDT/1am GMT as we are transitioning the entire platform to Google Compute Engine (GCE) from our previous host. Downtime is expected to be three hours.

This is a major migration which will affect ALL Star Citizen services: account login, the website, forums, chat, game servers, the store, etc. Players can expect significant instability during the three hour period while we complete the transition.

Downtime will start per time zone:
Thursday PM
6pm PDT (Los Angeles, Seattle, Vancouver)
7pm MDT (Albuquerque, Denver, Calgary)
8pm CDT (Mexico City, Austin, Dallas, Chicago)
9pm EDT (Miami, Washington, New York)
Friday AM
1am GMT/UTC
2am BST (Dublin, London, Edinburgh)
3am SAST/CET (Johannesburg, Paris, Berlin)
4am EEST/MST (Kiev, Moscow, Istanbul)
10am JST/KST (Seoul, Tokyo)
11am AST (Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane)
12pm NZST (Auckland, Wellington)

We're excited to run the future Star Citizen platform entirely on GCE as this gives us a number of technical and strategic performance benefits.

Thanks for your patience and understanding as we take another step forward in building the BDSSE!
WL

https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...rvice-wide-downtime-tonight-transition-to-gce

 

[Zabojnik]

That feeling when helmets in Star Citizen got you more hyped than entire games.

I don't have a problem with the PU releasing in 5 years, but Squadron 42 can't come soon enough.

 

[Agremont]

Just played the game for the first time after upgrading to windows 10. Massive performance increase. Getting the same performance on very high as I used to on medium.

Only tried solo flight though so far. But even in the hangar it's massively improved.

 

[tuxfool]

Just played the game for the first time after upgrading to windows 10. Massive performance increase. Getting the same performance on very high as I used to on medium.

Only tried solo flight though so far. But even in the hangar it's massively improved.

What gfx card you using?

 

[Agremont]

What gfx card you using?

GTX680

 

[Dictator93]

GTX680

Which CPU? Just curious.

 

[Agremont]

Which CPU? Just curious.

i7-3770K

16gb of RAM if that is of interest.

 

[viveks86]

Interesting that they are switching to GCE. Which cloud were they running on before?

 

[tuxfool]

GTX680

huh. Neat.

I wonder what it is about Win10 that specifically allows for more performance.

 

[tuxfool]

Interesting that they are switching to GCE. Which cloud were they running on before?

This was a long planned thing. I assume they just rented AWS like most ad-hoc installations. The advantage of GCE is that google actually sent engineers to work out the details the transition and architecture. I remember them saying that the people they sent were fans.

 

[Raticus79]

huh. Neat.

I wonder what it is about Win10 that specifically allows for more performance.

DirectX 11.2 becoming available, if previously on Windows 7? (I remember seeing that somewhere else here, not sure if it applies to SC)

 

[Xplatformer]

Just played the game for the first time after upgrading to windows 10. Massive performance increase. Getting the same performance on very high as I used to on medium.

Only tried solo flight though so far. But even in the hangar it's massively improved.

I just went from 10 back to 7.

No noticeable difference in performance...using FRAPS. Gtx 970 with 4690k.

D12 is probably better for your hardware.

 

[viveks86]

This was a long planned thing. I assume they just rented AWS like most ad-hoc installations. The advantage of GCE is that google actually sent engineers to work out the details the transition and architecture. I remember them saying that the people they sent were fans.

Nice!

 

[Dictator93]

DirectX 11.2 becoming available, if previously on Windows 7? (I remember seeing that somewhere else here, not sure if it applies to SC)

SC and Cryengine take advantage of DX 11.1 and .2. For example, I see CPU related gains in AC after upgrading to 10 from 7.

i7-3770K

16gb of RAM if that is of interest.

Hrm, interesting. Were you getting lower GPU utilization earlier under 7?

 

[Agremont]

SC and Cryengine take advantage of DX 11.1 and .2. For example, I see CPU related gains in AC after upgrading to 10 from 7.


Hrm, interesting. Were you getting lower GPU utilization earlier under 7?

No idea. All I know is that it's much smoother now.

 

[Dictator93]

Loving the weapons and the aging effects.

 

[Daedardus]

That looks quite good and astoundingly smooth. Seems like the merge with the main branch may take a while, we're not getting the FPS module soon.

 

[kutthoat5150]

the bullets in that weapon must have been sitting there for a while to age like that

Spoiler

no fun allowed

 

[Zalusithix]

the bullets in that weapon must have been sitting there for a while to age like that

Spoiler

no fun allowed

I believe those are actually energy cells, not bullets, so it's conceivable that they're rechargeable and are just as old and used as the gun itself. (The gun is supposed to be an electric shotgun of sorts.)

 

[Zabojnik]

the bullets in that weapon must have been sitting there for a while to age like that

Spoiler

no fun allowed

I believe those are actually energy cells, not bullets, so it's conceivable that they're rechargeable and are just as old and used as the gun itself. (The gun is supposed to be an electric shotgun of sorts.)

#school'd

 

[Raticus79]

Sigh, looks like Derek Smart is going ahead with filing a suit. Link to Geist's reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...initiates_legal_action_against_cig/?limit=500

Edit: actually, I'm not sure there's been an actual suit yet. He says "legal action" in that tweet, but the linked material really isn't clear about whether there is one or this is just a threat of one if there isn't a reponse to a letter he sent.
Edit2: yeah, I think the legal action he's referring to in that tweet is sending the letter.

 

[Machina]

Sigh, looks like Derek Smart is going ahead with filing a suit. Link to Geist's reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...initiates_legal_action_against_cig/?limit=500

Oh my fucking fuck, really???

 

[Agremont]

Sigh, looks like Derek Smart is going ahead with filing a suit. Link to Geist's reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...initiates_legal_action_against_cig/?limit=500

The guy is a looney.

 

[KKRT00]

Wouldnt be great if Judge was SC fan?

 

[Dictator93]

Sigh, looks like Derek Smart is going ahead with filing a suit. Link to Geist's reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...initiates_legal_action_against_cig/?limit=500

This guy needs to get fucked, figuratively and literally.

 

[CyberPunked]

Loving the weapons and the aging effects.

The "new" looking texture doesn't look that great. Almost looks slightly untextured. Needs to be shinier

 

[CyberPunked]

Sigh, looks like Derek Smart is going ahead with filing a suit. Link to Geist's reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...initiates_legal_action_against_cig/?limit=500

On what grounds? I mean, does he even have the funding to battle a non-existent case?

 

[KKRT00]

On what grounds? I mean, does he even have the funding to battle a non-existent case?

Crazy people dont need reasons. They probably dont know the definition of reason.

Ps. Who wants to bet that news about Derek suing CIG will get more headlines than Multicrew demo? :>

 

[Zalusithix]

Crazy people dont need reasons. They probably dont know the definition of reason.

Ps. Who wants to bet that news about Derek suing CIG will get more headlines than Multicrew demo? :>

In this case, I'm not sure it's craziness or just an over inflated ego with a side of jealousy.

 

[Dictator93]

The "new" looking texture doesn't look that great. Almost looks slightly untextured. Needs to be shinier

They are WIP.

But yeah I agree, a little too primary colour looking atm, as if it was just pressed from a mold. Needs more micro texture detail if possible.


Quick reminder everyone: A founding member of CIG is a lawyer.

 

[Daedardus]

"They're wasting money! Now I'm going to make sure they have to waste more money on lawyers they had no need for. And to increase my own coffers of course."

 

[Geist-]

"They're wasting money! Now I'm going to make sure they have to waste more money on lawyers they had no need for. And to increase my own coffers of course."

Even if he goes ahead with a Class action, it's not like he'd be getting any money from it anyway since he has already been refunded. Which, as a matter of fact, makes it even less likely that his case will gain any traction whatsoever.

It's more pathetic than anything else. He takes a few (arguably) valid points and goes completely batshit insane when he elaborates on those points. I don't share the hatred of the news media that many of my fellow citizens share, but if anyone actually publishes this in anything other than a tongue-in-cheek article pointing out his delusions, they'll just be feeding his delusions.

 

[Raticus79]

Hmm, I don't think anything has actually been filed yet. He had a lawyer send a letter on Aug 21 asking for some demands to be met within 30 days "to avoid legal action" (full accounting details, a new completion date, and refunds). It also says "among other things", so there's no guarantee that providing those three things would be satisfactory - the door's left open to make additional demands and go ahead with that action anyway.

 

[Geist-]

Hmm, I don't think anything has actually been filed yet. He had a lawyer send a letter on Aug 21 asking for some demands to be met within 30 days "to avoid legal action" (full accounting details, a new completion date, and refunds). It also says "among other things", so there's no guarantee that providing those three things would be satisfactory - the door's left open to make additional demands and go ahead with that action anyway.

I think you're right based on this:

As all previous calls for accountability have failed, we don&#8217;t expect RSI to co-operate (hence the need to contact the Federal authorities), with us. Which means that the next steps, depending on how they respond to the letter, would be for a class-action lawsuit (already in various stages of preparation), to move forward and be immediately filed.

This article is probably just an attempt to get names for a class-action, but he hasn't actually filed yet.

Edit: BTW, if anyone wants to read his letter of demands: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4497650/dsmart_demand_letter_to_rsi-final.pdf

 

[KKRT00]

CIG should make 5$ Delek Smalk fish sale, which all income would be put into legal actions

 

[Zalusithix]

I think you're right based on this:



This article is probably just an attempt to get names for a class-action, but he hasn't actually filed yet.

Edit: BTW, if anyone wants to read his letter of demands: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4497650/dsmart_demand_letter_to_rsi-final.pdf

Only quickly scanned that, but this jumped out at me.

Derek Smart continues to await these deliverables, having only received the Silver Citizens Card to date.

Derek Smart will continue to wait for those deliverables for eternity since he is no longer a backer after being refunded. He should kindly send back his Silver Citizen's Card while he's at it.

 

[Raticus79]

Anyone interested in salvage operations? I noticed we don't have a Reclaimer yet. The operation structure would be similar to mining, where the explorers would call in their finds, then the industrial ships would make their way over with an escort to fend off pirates.

 

[Zabojnik]

CIG should make 5$ Delek Smalk fish sale, which all income would be put into legal actions

That's a brilliant idea. I mean, it would kinda mean lowering to his level, but still.

 

[Zalusithix]

Anyone interested in salvage operations? I noticed we don't have a Reclaimer yet. The operation structure would be similar to mining, where the explorers would call in their finds, then the industrial ships would make their way over with an escort to fend off pirates.

We might have a Reclaimer.

Must resist sacrificing claw for grinder

He's not on the roster sheet, so it's hard to tell if he's just one of the many not filled in, or whether he's not a member at all. Then there's the possibility of me misinterpreting that quote. But yeah, the operation would be similar to mining, though likely more dangerous. It's not just pirates you'd have to potentially deal with, but the Vanduul as well. I imagine a lot of the prime salvage content is going to be in systems that are prone to skirmishes and outright battles.