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Star Citizen Pre-Alpha: 'Arena Commander' Dogfighting

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OK...32gb later...the lighting is different. My hangar isn't nearly as dark as it use to be.

I can no longer hit F6 to change my appearance.

What else is different?

There should be a transporter like thing on the floor for clothing changes now.

Other than that the Avenger cockpit glare is finally fixed and there some minor adjustments to thruster ratios and a spool time.




Excited to see the flight model post and I hope it is as detailed and the ships/ graphics/2.0 posts.
 

MikeDown

Banned
Sorry I just need to vent a little bit, but is it normal to be kept waiting for close to a month in regards to requesting a refund? Getting a little irritated at this point.
 

tuxfool

Banned
Sorry I just need to vent a little bit, but is it normal to be kept waiting for close to a month in regards to requesting a refund? Getting a little irritated at this point.

CS are pretty swamped at the moment. You're just going to have to wait, they'll get there eventually.
 

Effect

Member
Sorry I just need to vent a little bit, but is it normal to be kept waiting for close to a month in regards to requesting a refund? Getting a little irritated at this point.

Email them again. After the initial back and forth and them saying they were behind in answering support emails that's how long I ended up waiting. I eventually emailed again (responded to the last email I got from them). They processed my refund the next day after that. I get the feeling if I had emailed sooner I would have had my money back sooner. I wouldn't be surprised if they're counting on people not following up with them after requesting refunds so they don't have to refund people.

I've heard of a number of other people having to wait like this as well. Some eventually let them know they would be having their bank do a charge back (after checking with the bank first to see if they would) if they didn't hear a response. That pushed the refunds through. That might be an option but I would email them again first. Respond to their last email though so they can see that all information was sent in to them that they asked for.

If nothing else happens I would check with your bank to see if they'll do a charge back and explain to them CIG is dragging their feet and that a month has passed.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
Scoping out some pedals to combine with the Steam controller - does anyone have these?

Pro-Pedals-v13-d-716.html

http://www.chproducts.com/Pro-Pedals-v13-d-716.html

So far reviews look ok. I'm thinking of using the left one for reverse strafe, right one for forward strafe (effectively my throttle), and the rudder axis (slide) for roll, but I'm wondering if that might turn out to be too awkward in practice and I'd be better off just getting two normal fixed pedals and using the Steam controller's grip buttons for digital roll instead.
 

tuxfool

Banned
Scoping out some pedals to combine with the Steam controller - does anyone have these?

Pro-Pedals-v13-d-716.html

http://www.chproducts.com/Pro-Pedals-v13-d-716.html

So far reviews look ok. I'm thinking of using the left one for reverse strafe, right one for forward strafe (effectively my throttle), and the rudder axis (slide) for roll, but I'm wondering if that might turn out to be too awkward in practice and I'd be better off just getting two normal fixed pedals and using the Steam controller's grip buttons for digital roll instead.

I assume you're looking to use the steam controller in a more couch like seating arrangement?

Having used racing pedals I can say it isn't easy to use them like that, you need to be sitting in a proper chair. I imagine with those pedals it will be even more difficult as you then also need to be able to twist.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
I assume you're looking to use the steam controller in a more couch like seating arrangement?

Having used racing pedals I can say it isn't easy to use them like that, you need to be sitting in a proper chair. I imagine with those pedals it will be even more difficult as you then also need to be able to twist.

Nope, it would be in a normal chair at the PC, so it's ok from that perspective at least.
 
Scoping out some pedals to combine with the Steam controller - does anyone have these?

Pro-Pedals-v13-d-716.html

http://www.chproducts.com/Pro-Pedals-v13-d-716.html


So far reviews look ok. I'm thinking of using the left one for reverse strafe, right one for forward strafe (effectively my throttle), and the rudder axis (slide) for roll, but I'm wondering if that might turn out to be too awkward in practice and I'd be better off just getting two normal fixed pedals and using the Steam controller's grip buttons for digital roll instead.

CH stuff all looks like it belongs in 1984 but the quality and reliability is all top notch.
 

tuxfool

Banned
All right, I'll give them a shot. Worst case, I can just lock the slide function and forget about the rudder=roll idea.

I'm somewhat curious as why you would opt to go for pedals to remedy deficiencies with the steam controller, instead of going full hog on a hotas. Do you not like joysticks?
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
I'm somewhat curious as why you would opt to go for pedals to remedy deficiencies with the steam controller, instead of going full hog on a hotas. Do you not like joysticks?

The Steam controller's a bit of a stopgap. Long term, I'm thinking of a custom input setup based on using a Lighthouse controller for the rotation and translations (based on relative position+orientation changes after an initial button press, re-initialized whenever that button is pressed, and ignored when the button is released). The pedals would still be useful for forward/backward thrust control in that scenario.
 

tuxfool

Banned
The Steam controller's a bit of a stopgap. Long term, I'm thinking of a custom input setup based on using a Lighthouse controller for the rotation and translations (based on relative position+orientation changes after an initial button press, re-initialized whenever that button is pressed, and ignored when the button is released). The pedals would still be useful for forward/backward thrust control in that scenario.

Interesting. The one issue I'd consider with Lighthouse is that there won't be any physical feedback/resistance on the device thus either being inexact or require too much motion to be accurate.
 
AtV talks about some of the flight model changes. Can't watch now but some stuff includes Afterburners back in, top speed determined by acceleration (not capped)... Need to watch it get transcript for more info.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
Interesting. The one issue I'd consider with Lighthouse is that there won't be any physical feedback/resistance on the device thus either being inexact or require too much motion to be accurate.

Yeah, I had taken that into consideration from earlier discussions here and got this idea from how the Steam controller handles gyro input by default (only active while thumb is on the right pad).

Instead of trying to return to a precise home position with no physical feedback, which is pretty much impossible, you would just release and hold your control button again to dynamically set a new home position as needed. So, you're working with a bunch of small relative inputs which are relatively easy thanks to proprioception, vs the more difficult task of working around one fixed position in space. In my case, I'd probably use the left controller for the movement and go with the left trigger as that control button. The right controller would be the mouse aim, using orientation only and ignoring position.

htc_vive_hands_on_-_controllers.jpg


I'm just hoping the final version has more buttons to work with.
 

Zalusithix

Member
Interesting. The one issue I'd consider with Lighthouse is that there won't be any physical feedback/resistance on the device thus either being inexact or require too much motion to be accurate.

Yeah, in the heat of the moment, I see a lot of unwanted movement without any positional feedback/restrictions. Being able to reset the neutral position on the fly should help with calm rational movement, but the actions people take under pressure don't always work out like we think they should. With enough training, anything should be possible, but frustration in the interim might cause a person to give up before then.

Granted, creating a custom setup allowing for similar actions with feedback isn't exactly a cakewalk so there's not many options out there. I'm still planning out how I want to set up such a system. The cost of quality linear motion gear isn't exactly trivial, so I want to be reasonably sure I'm taking the best approach when I do it. Even then, it'll only allow translational movement. I could reasonably easily add rotation, but pitch control would conflict with translation. (Imagine trying to control pitch via a grip without affecting the vertical axis. Your palm area rotates around the wrist and thus any wrist twisting up and down would in turn impact your hand's position on the vertical axis.) Horizontal rotation doesn't suffer this problem, but along with pitch control, would be lacking on the ergonomic front. Lots of wrist contortions that would be less than ideal over the course of hours. Keeping the wrist in a neutral position while moving around in the control bounding box should be less RSI inducing.
 
Cruise mode sounds really fun for large PU like spaces. 1KM a second?!

Good for intrasystem travel. Question is how will intercepts work at full cruise? I think they mentioned spider web like traps before to arrest travel but there there should be something in place for other ships to catch you and vice versa.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
Yeah, in the heat of the moment, I see a lot of unwanted movement without any positional feedback/restrictions. Being able to reset the neutral position on the fly should help with calm rational movement, but the actions people take under pressure don't always work out like we think they should. With enough training, anything should be possible, but frustration in the interim might cause a person to give up before then.

Granted, creating a custom setup allowing for similar actions with feedback isn't exactly a cakewalk so there's not many options out there. I'm still planning out how I want to set up such a system. The cost of quality linear motion gear isn't exactly trivial, so I want to be reasonably sure I'm taking the best approach when I do it. Even then, it'll only allow translational movement. I could reasonably easily add rotation, but pitch control would conflict with translation. (Imagine trying to control pitch via a grip without affecting the vertical axis. Your palm area rotates around the wrist and thus any wrist twisting up and down would in turn impact your hand's position on the vertical axis.) Horizontal rotation doesn't suffer this problem, but along with pitch control, would be lacking on the ergonomic front. Lots of wrist contortions that would be less than ideal over the course of hours. Keeping the wrist in a neutral position while moving around in the control bounding box should be less RSI inducing.

It's definitely an interesting challenge and tough to think all the way through the design. I would probably need to have the pitch sensitivity quite high to avoid that wrist problem, although being able to use angled home positions would help quite a bit. Could also hold it with a lighter finger-based grip so you can put more of the workload on fingers instead of wrist.

I find that horizontal/vertical translation control doesn't need to be nearly as precise as pitch/yaw, so the thumb stick on the Steam controller works fine for those inputs.
 

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
Depends on the missile or torpedo I believe Torpoedos have a really long lock 8 seconds or so?

They did not say about guns, but aiming while moving that fast could be a challenge :D


Oh snap, did not know that.

Yeah, cruise is basically Wing Commander's autopilot in Star Citizen, but modified slightly to fit into an MMO environment.
 
I think I let out a manly tear reading that flight post. Just about every song thing I read was right in line with what I pledged for. No more space quake, penalizing poor maneuvering, jerk for finer movement. Flying with a stick looks like it will be fun again.



Didn't address IM, but this is a great start to making this game fun for everyone.
 

tuxfool

Banned
Interactive mode.

Ah, yeah. They've already de-emphasized it by making look ahead default. I saw a number of posts of people complaining that they hated the new flight model, unaware that IM was a button press away.

I think this is more of a gameplay and balancing issue than a flight physics issue.
 

Zabojnik

Member
After seeing the tour of the new Frankfurt office and all the gorgeous art on the walls ... I need some of that in my life. Is there a go to place for (official) hi-res SC art? I try to stay away from the official forums for obvious reasons and I'm not a subscriber (anymore), so I don't have access to the vault. Used to be some cool stuff there.

Can anyone help me with the art shown here?

https://youtu.be/p-mifFQpeiw?t=590
 

Zalusithix

Member
After seeing the tour of the new Frankfurt office and all the gorgeous art on the walls ... I need some of that in my life. Is there a go to place for (official) hi-res SC art? I try to stay away from the official forums for obvious reasons and I'm not a subscriber (anymore), so I don't have access to the vault. Used to be some cool stuff there.

Can anyone help me with the art shown here?

https://youtu.be/p-mifFQpeiw?t=590
The only one that I know is available for sure is the Orion. I can't remember coming across the other ones. Heck, I can't even figure out what the one ship is with the loading ramp down. The other poster appears to be of a rover or something. It would be nice if they made all the artwork available online at sufficiently high resolutions, but I doubt that will happen.

The Orion one is here, but there is a 5K version in the vault as well.
 
Reading over the FM stuff again they really didn't mention decoupled outside of super cruise. Currently decoupled doesn't have access to the full power of the engines.

Secondly I can a most of the early ships getting new thruster placements, especially the Hornet and it's gimballed MAV. If it is going to be fully realized then the turn rates and high turning maneuvers will be inherently laggy compared to the other ships.
 

Zalusithix

Member
Whew, they need some proofreading on these. Need to fix "processeing", allow->allows and "asymetric" before anyone prints this one. The Xi'an concepts were bad for this too.

The 5K vault version has the same flaws. Thankfully editing the text would be easy enough with the simple background if somebody did want to print it.

And yeah, the concept sales in general have always had the rushed feeling to them. Incorrect data, typos, etc. I'm fairly certain at this point that there's nobody set up to look over anything before they go live, and if a concept goes live without issues, it's more a matter of luck than diligence.
 
https://player.vimeo.com/video/143944123

Fest your eyes!!


Lots of stuff in the 2.0 development update:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15036-Weekly-Development-Update

- Constellation flight ready
- Retaliator flight ready
- Cutlass Black flight ready

FPS stuff sounds like it's been a real pain.

Got to get it right for SQ42 and the rest of the PU ( and in the vision CR wants it to be). Would not be surprised if its put on the back burner a little to be taken care of the right way by Foundry42 UK and Germany. Since they are now staffed and are continuing to staff to support FPS better. Plus I think looking back tasking illfonic, with this huge job ,despite what others were saying as people did back lash against them like they did Behavior IN contracting at the time. Though they seemed to be working out far better but they were tasked with a bit more freedom and different assignments in regards to what they could do.

Never the less it seemed to be to much for Fonic to tackle, though i think the work they did do with the stations and the like will be something to note. Though the getting it to work all together part seemed to be a difficult task.

But on the bright side we get to see how the 42 studios handle this and given their track record to far. I think we will be more then happy with what they bring to the table and what they do to fix the issues its facing.

Overall the Alpha 2.0 PU should hold us over for at least two to three more months or more. Once they get that cracking.
 

SmartBase

Member

Zalusithix

Member
For those looking for hi-rez SC art, look no further:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/31067/wallpapers-central/p1

I have yet to go through the thread, but it looks like most of the stuff is there.

Turns out the ship I couldn't identify in the blurry video is the Idris. Or rather, an early concept image of it. I thought that might be the case this morning, but I'm so used to the new version that it just looked wrong. It has parts that aren't on the current one, and obviously the scale is from back in the frigate concept stage. It's amazing how much that ship has changed from initial concept to the version seen in the Citizencon S42 demo. Size, proportions, design lines. Everything has undergone massive tweaking. Size modifications aside, the S42 model certainly looks a lot more like an Aegis ship now. The original Idris almost felt more like an RSI ship to me with the micro detail. The new version has the same design language that all the other ships in the line have (Redeemer aside).

That said, I didn't see the other two posters there, and the vast majority of the stuff is 1080p. That resolution wouldn't work as a wallpaper for my monitor's resolution, let alone be useful for printing at poster size. Still, a nice collection of stuff in once place.
 
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