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[ReplacementPelican]

But I saw this on twitter and I knew I would expose even more disgusting individuals who pretend to give a shit about women but clearly do not because the second you mention them in this regard, you cannot speak about it on here, you only give a shit when it suits you.

What is it with people who say 'you can't speak about it...' when they already are?

You're on Gaf talking about it, some people are agreeing with you and you're still committed to the idea everyone is against you, chill.

Also, is your whole point here 'everyone loves women until you use women to criticize Islam and then everyone is anti-woman'? If that's the case everyone seems to agree with you on that point but are hesitant to say that women in Western countries - who have nothing to do with this - should be forced not to wear something. You're making this into a black and white issue and calling people things like 'disgusting', try to understand there there's nuance to these topics.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

That's not an apt comparison though because you can choose to become a nun and there are, afaik, multiple orders that don't require you to wear one.

You can choose to wear an hijab or not also being a muslim, so it's the same thing. I think that most muslim women don't wear it nowadays. Not wearing a hijab don't make you less of a muslim, nor is a condition of being a muslim. It's not a pillar of the faith by any mean.

You will find clerics who would says that being a bikini model but good with other is better than an hijabi mean with everybody.

 

[Htown]

Completely unreleated but yes, you are right, I am trying to get a ban so I don't have to respond to the idiocy of intellectually dishonest people like yourself.

If you really wanted a ban, you could just PM a moderator and they would do it for you. It's no problem. I've done it before on a temporary basis.

This is about you wanting attention for some pathetic reason.

 

[TheGraykid]

in the instance of forced marriage, I would actually, yes. I would argue that marriage has also been used as a tool of oppression.

I would argue that most marriages across time have probably been forced, if not explicitly then implicitly.

Does that make marriage in its modern form bad then?

I feel like (please correct me if I'm wrong) your argument is that the hijab is bad and it can never be good, no matter what society it exists in, because it's roots are in oppression.

My argument is that the meaning of things can change as the societies around them change. That the hijab can in the right society not be awful. I'm using marriage as an example of this.

If marriage can grow with our society, can the hijab?

 

[MUnited83]

I have provided plenty of arguments, you have ignored them in favor of your own little virtue signalling power trip, which you always do.

I don't normally insult anyone, I am making an exception for you though simply because I think you, among a few others,are the reason discussion on this site has gone down the shittier.

You would rather censor differing opinions and criticism of things and attack them rather than have a civil discussion about it.

If you disagree with me, fine, just say you disagree but you can never just do that can you?

I've disagreed with you and pointed out that you are a hypocrite and called you out. I didn't censor shit, yet all you could react to was insults. It's really quite telling. Like I said, your shtick is old. You're nothing else than a weak troll.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

You can choose to wear an hijab or not also being a muslim, so it's the same thing.

Uh, no not everywhere. That's the problem.

Because I feel like I need to say this: I don't think the Hijab should be banned anywhere. I don't think every Muslim is sexist. But acting like every Muslim woman who wears one does so by choice is just wrong.

 

[Sapiens]

I fully support a woman's choice to wear a hijab.

I don't think women should be forced to wear hijabs.

If you live in a western country where you have the choice to wear one, and you proudly do, remember that there are women in other countries that are forced to wear them.

I don't like anything about gender specific modesty clothing.

 

[Zakalwe]

The Hijab's sole purpose for exsistance is to oppress women, how is that hard to understand?

You clearly haven't met many Muslim women.

It may have been designed for that, but I have Muslim friends and they absolutely choose to wear it. Their husband's and family wouldn't force them, they do it as part of submission to their god not to men. This is a deeply personal thing and is in no way compulsory in many places.

So while there are definitely places in the world it is used to oppress, that is absolutely not the case everywhere.

 

[MUnited83]

This is about me exposing the vile views that lurk underneath the surface here, that on the face of things, pretend to be progressive but in reality are anything but that.

So are you going to point out the people defending Iran or are you going to continue yelling at the skies? Back up your shit for once in your life.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Girls less than 10 years old can't wait to try make up in the west. The "encouragement" of sex appeal is massive.

"Doing far more than simply encouraging" do you mean forced wearing of the hijab? Because I don't support that either.

I know, and that is stupid also. Difference in Western countries is of course you wouldn't be punished by the government for not giving in to that pressure. But I think we should have way more strict guidelines for things like advertisements to kids. I've talked about this in a few threads relating to Youtube, about the lack of rules for example on social media that companies use to target young audiences.

There's the world hijab day which kind of goes into that direction


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-...over-their-heads-in-solidarity-muslim/8234116

I get the intention but since people are also still oppressed into wearing one it feels uncomfortable

Yeah, I think that is a bit strange. I understand the intentions are good, but it also feels strange because there are a ton of people being forced to wear it.

In some muslim majority country, wearing an hijab is going against the norm and would cause you backlash from your own family. As a minority, in France, it's a very common issue also.

So, like any garb, it depend on many factors. It could be a tool for emancipation and a tool for oppression. If you do wear hijab against the will of your entourage, society, culture etc it's empowerment. If you do it because social pressure or worst, state law, it's definitely oppression.

The same thing apply for the banning of hijab in France schools.Or in Ataturk Turkey or Pahlavi Iran.

One of the reasons I'm in favor of banning all religious stuff in schools at least. Young kids shouldn't be forced (either by the government itself or due to their parents), but make the choice themselves when they are an adult.

 

[LionPride]

This is about me exposing the vile views that lurk underneath the surface here, that on the face of things, pretend to be progressive but in reality are anything but that.

Nigga it ain't that fucking deep

 

[MUnited83]

Uh, no not everywhere. That's the problem.

Because I feel like I need to say this: I don't think the Hijab should be banned anywhere. I don't think every Muslim is sexist. But acting like every Muslim woman who wears one does so by choice is just wrong.

Please point to where anyone says every Muslim woman wears it by choice. I'll be waiting.

 

[LordKasual]

lol this thread came swinging out the gate huh

 

[LionPride]

Uh, no not everywhere. That's the problem.

Because I feel like I need to say this: I don't think the Hijab should be banned anywhere. I don't think every Muslim is sexist. But acting like every Muslim woman who wears one does so by choice is just wrong.

Who
What
Where
How

 

[Dude Abides]

I expected this reaction, you are wrong, I have no issues with Muslims, I have issues with Islam as a religion and think it is in need of reformation, especially when it comes to the way women are treated.

I love how you say I don't care about the oppression of women, if that were the case I would be SUPPORTING this kind of practice as shown in the OP.

I have plenty of arguments to state why I dislike the religion of Islam just like I have plenty of arguments as to why I dislike many other religions.

You are now trying to use a victimhood narrative to try and take away from the factual perspective, I am suprised it took this long but it just proves my point even more than it is, actually, you and the others using this argument that don't care about the rights of these women.

You don't actually have any arguments. You just don't like Islam and those who practice it and pretend to care about women when it's useful to attack Islam, and at no other time. This is a standard fedora move.

 

[IISANDERII]

because her sister doesn't wear one and gets no flack for it?

...that you're aware of. Also, the sister may be more resistant to brainwashing.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Please point to where anyone says every Muslim woman wears it by choice. I'll be waiting.

You can choose to wear an hijab or not also being a muslim, so it's the same thing.

How else was I supposed to understand this comment in context of the discussion I had with this user?

Who
What
Where
How

Hmm?

 

[Zakalwe]

If the forced oppression of women by use of the Hijab and other coverings is eliminated from oppressive regimes then, in time, yes, it can.

Its roots will always lay within oppression, just like marriage, however, once the forced nature is eliminated in its entirety and women are no longer dying/being abused/held back, as a result of that oppression then it can be introduced as a sign of empowerment in the long term possibly.

However, I am of the belief that if these oppressive systems were removed entirely then only a very small percentage would choose to wear it, that is, however, just my personal opinion.

Your personal opinion based on what?

My ex-partner and dearest friend is Muslim and I've met her family and friends and community, many don't wear it and many do.

No one is forced to within their group.

I can assure you, almost certainly, that a significant number of women would wear it in places it's compulsory if it were made optional.

 

[Skyzard]

I know, and that is stupid also. Difference in Western countries is of course you wouldn't be punished by the government for not giving in to that pressure. But I think we should have way more strict guidelines for things like advertisements to kids. I've talked about this in a few threads relating to Youtube, about the lack of rules for example on social media that companies use to target young audiences..

In western countries they are starting to punish people for wearing the hijab, which is the other side of the coin. Even if they aren't successful, they're trying, as is OP.

You aren't punished by the government for not wearing one except in oppressive regimes. And I agree, that's a massive problem that I hope their people can resolve.

Before all the meddling in the middle east and wars causing educated and modest people to leave, they weren't either.
I've seen a lot of photos of Baghdad and the headscarf is nowhere near as common as it is now.
Iran too, before the US interference in their elections resulted in a super religious government to follow.

 

[hodgy100]

I have provided plenty of arguments, you have ignored them in favor of your own little virtue signalling power trip, which you always do.

I don't normally insult anyone, I am making an exception for you though simply because I think you, among a few others,are the reason discussion on this site has gone down the shittier.

You would rather censor differing opinions and criticism of things and attack them rather than have a civil discussion about it.

If you disagree with me, fine, just say you disagree but you can never just do that can you?

Dude you dont argue you berate, belittle and tag people with labels all while providing lazy and clumsy arguments that don't take context into account at-all. While it is pretty untasteful for Bernardo to follow you across threads to call you out. the first thing you said to me as a reply to me stating that the hijab isn't the problem but the oppressive regime is was to call me out as someone that was virtue signalling. and youve done the same to him. and i've seen you do similar things elsewhere so I can totally see his frustrations.

I know I came in at 500 mph too and in hindsight i shouldn't have. but I felt it was super insulting to be attacking the hijab and not the power structure behind it. Its a page right out of the anti-muslim handbook. you have since said that that was not your intention so you could say i also jumped to conclusions.

...that you're aware of. Also, the sister may be more resistant to brainwashing.

what do you want a recounting of their life history to prove to you that they aren't really oppressed?
Take my word for it and lets not play about with what ifs.

 

[FrontalMonk]

Completely unreleated but yes, you are right, I am trying to get a ban so I don't have to respond to the idiocy of intellectually dishonest people like yourself.

why are you even here then

 

[Puruzi]

lol this thread came swinging out the gate huh

lmao right?

thread's nutty

 

[ClosingADoor]

In western countries they are starting to punish people for wearing the hijab, which is the other side of the coin.

You aren't punished by the government for not wearing one except in oppressive regimes. And I agree, that's a massive problem that I hope their people can resolve.

Before all the meddling in the middle east and wars causing educated and modest people to leave, they weren't either.
I've seen a lot of photos of Baghdad and the headscarf is nowhere near as common as it is now.
Iran too, before the US interference in their elections resulted in a super religious government to follow.

As far as I know there is no Western government that has punished people for wearing a hijab. If you are talking about the burqa, yes, some countries - Western and others - have banned it or taken measures against it. And there was some nonsense about the burkini, I think that is banned in some French cities still? Don't know how that evolved later on.

The Middle-east is a mess, partly because of all the Western interference. Hard to get it back on track now, as we have seen.

 

[Blue Lou]

It feels disingenuous to have a futsal player described as a "star soccer player". That said, she did win the WAFF (West Asia) Futsal Championship in 2008. I've got a keen interest in football but I couldn't tell you who is in my nation's futsal team.

It's not fair that she's prevented from playing again because she i) was photographed without wearing a hijab, ii) wore shorts exposing her legs and iii) practiced playing with men.

 

[Lifeline]

I don't get what Phil is trying to do. We get it, you think it originated as a symbol of oppression. Now what? You want the government to ban it?

 

[LordKasual]

This is about me exposing the vile views that lurk underneath the surface here, that on the face of things, pretend to be progressive but in reality are anything but that.

you can't just throw up a mirror for people and expect them to see what you see

this community is just like any other close-knit internet community. You can hoot and holler all you like, but beliefs are beliefs and nothing you say will change them. the only difference between NeoGAF and the others is that this one is closed, and thus inherently self-selective.

you're going to get banned, the people you despise so much will celebrate your removal, they'll high-five and laugh about it until the thread is locked, and everyone will go on about their business as usual, you are wasting your time.


stop participating in threads you don't like, or just leave lol

 

[MUnited83]

How is anyone, from any walk of life, ever going to grow without hearing opposing opinions they disagree with or even hate?

Since every time you hear opposing opinions the only thing you can do is spout insults and buzzwords, it sure seems that it hasn't worked out so well for you.
By the way, not a single one of your bans was for "criticizing ideas", but I'm sure you love to tell your Voat friends that it was.

 

[BeauRoger]

You don't support women and you have been supported women on your entire life. Feel free to point where I defended Iran's laws and government btw.

Demanding evidence is all well and good, but I you probably shouldnt be throwing around baseless accusations in the same breath. Im not sure if you didnt spot it, or if you simply dont care how hypocritical that sounds. I think that the point being made here is that you are diverting attention away from a real issue by pointing out a trivial truth. By analogy, it would be something like crashing into a thread about BLM and announcing that "all lives matter", which technically true of course, but not at all what is in focus.

Even then, "voluntary" in the context of an oppressive culture is not something that should be taken at face value. Obviously, there will be a few examples of women who without any such external influensers would still want to cover themselves up, but that gets us absolutely nowhere, since its such a trivial thing to point out. If anything, it helps the oppressing side with their rhetoric that its all their own choice.

 

[MUnited83]

Demanding evidence is all well and good, but I you probably shouldnt be throwing around baseless accusations in the same breath. Im not sure if you didnt spot it, or if you simply dont care how hypocritical that sounds. I think that the point being made here is that you are diverting attention away from a real issue by pointing out a trivial truth. By analogy, it would be something like crashing into a thread about BLM and announcing that "all lives matter", technically true, but not at all what is in focus.

Even then, "voluntary" in the context of an oppressive culture is not something that should be taken at face value. Obviously, there will be a few examples of women who without any such external influensers would still want to cover themselves up, but that gets us absolutely nowhere, since its such a trivial thing to point out. If anything, it helps the oppressing side with their rhetoric that its all their own choice.

There is one single reason the OP even made this thread, so I'm not going to engage like this was a serious thread, it has been poisoned since the beggining. If you check the OP post history, you will see his intentions are extremely clear. Shit you can even read the comment he chose to make in the OP itself. Plus the fact that he sneakily made a couple of bannable posts a little bit before making this thread. The only thing dude wants is to get banned and make it look like this was the thread that did him in.

why are you even here then

Voat street cred. Nothing more, nothing less. Just see how he conviniently made a bannable post purposefully in a unrelated thread before making this thread.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

As far as I know there is no Western government that has punished people for wearing a hijab. If you are talking about the burqa, yes, some countries - Western and others - have banned it or taken measures against it. And there was some nonsense about the burkini, I think that is banned in some French cities still? Don't know how that evolved later on.

I was under the impression the French banned headscarves in schools (all religious garb; in practice, the overwhelming majority of which was headscarves.) Very weird and heavy handed from an American perspective where I'm used to other students wearing turbans, headscarves, yamulkes, crucifix necklaces, etc.

 

[rjinaz]

By the way, the OP is purposefully trying to get a ban in a different thread and it's pretty transparent why. The only thing dude wants out of this thread is something to point to his friends over on Voat and make it seem like "hey guys I got banned because I think women shouldn't be opressed. Those damn libtards huh?"

Again:

Your
Shtick
Is
Fucking
OLD

Lol. I'm sure he was arguing from a sincere position, making the kind of post you find on a website like voat or neofag.

That said, I won't even go into that thread because it's fucking disgusting.

 

[hodgy100]

This is about me exposing the vile views that lurk underneath the surface here, that on the face of things, pretend to be progressive but in reality are anything but that.

But all you've done is expose yourself as someone looking for a bone to pick. Gaf does have sexist elements but this thread does not show that. the comments in Ann coulter threads that resort to insults based on her gender / looks are a problem and it was pretty gross to see. But not the people in here saying that women should be allowed to have the freedom to decide what to wear.

you seem to think that people are ok with toxic islamic regimes. I have no idea where you have gotten this opinion from. Just because not everyone on here has a hate boner for the Hijab doesnt mean "GAF" supports oppressive regimes.

 

[Nabbis]

Since every time you hear opposing opinions the only thing you can do is spout insults and buzzwords, it sure seems that it hasn't worked out so well for you.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=234904027&highlight=#post234904027

Lyn was clearly all about buzzwords. A somewhat heated response but certainly not without merit.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I was under the impression the French banned headscarves in schools (all religious garb; in practice, the overwhelming majority of which was headscarves.) Very weird and heavy handed from an American perspective where I'm used to other students wearing turbans, headscarves, yamulkes, crucifix necklaces, etc.

Yeah, France banned all religious symbols in public schools in 2004.

 

[Switch Back 9]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=234904027&highlight=#post234904027

Lyn was clearly all about buzzwords. A somewhat heated response but certainly not without merit.

She got banned for that post?!

 

[Kinyou]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=234904027&highlight=#post234904027

Lyn was clearly all about buzzwords. A somewhat heated response but certainly not without merit.

Was that user really banned for that post? That's a bit messed up.

Edit:looking at her post history she wasnt very active, so that it was this most recent post that got her banned seems likely. Disappointing.

 

[hodgy100]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=234904027&highlight=#post234904027

Lyn was clearly all about buzzwords. A somewhat heated response but certainly not without merit.

we dont know that post was the reason for their banning If it was then we have a problem but you're just speculating. GAF does need more transparency when it comes to why someone was banned.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I was under the impression the French banned headscarves in schools (all religious garb; in practice, the overwhelming majority of which was headscarves.) Very weird and heavy handed from an American perspective where I'm used to other students wearing turbans, headscarves, yamulkes, crucifix necklaces, etc.

Yes, religious symbols are banned in public schools (and other public jobs I think). But that is actually something I agree with, since it is a public school. Opinions differ of course, but I don't think that is actual punishment.

 

[rjinaz]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=234904027&highlight=#post234904027

Lyn was clearly all about buzzwords. A somewhat heated response but certainly not without merit.

There was a lot of disagreement in that thread, I read through it, and it's not a graveyard. I'm not sure why she got banned. But maybe take it up with the mods. People are not banned for a difference of opinion despite what phil0sophy says, Mr. "you can't grow unless you challenge your beliefs (difference of opinion like racism) but I've been singing the same tune for years now". They are banned for being assholes though.

 

[BeauRoger]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=234904027&highlight=#post234904027

Lyn was clearly all about buzzwords. A somewhat heated response but certainly not without merit.

Absolutely crazy if that was the reason for the ban.

 

[Phil0sophy]

She got banned for that post?!

Lyn is a really nice genuine person, just proves my point about gaf,

 

[Phil0sophy]

There was a lot of disagreement in that thread, I read through it, and it's not a graveyard. I'm not sure why she got banned. But maybe take it up with the mods. People are not banned for a difference of opinion despite what phil0sophy says, Mr. "you can't grow unless you challenge your beliefs (difference of opinion like racism) but I've been singing the same tune for years now". They are banned for being assholes though.

lol please, get your head out of the sand, you are delusional if you think that is the case, I have proven in the booger thread already that it happens.

 

[TheGraykid]

If the forced oppression of women by use of the Hijab and other coverings is eliminated from oppressive regimes then, in time, yes, it can.

Its roots will always lay within oppression, just like marriage, however, once the forced nature is eliminated in its entirety and women are no longer dying/being abused/held back, as a result of that oppression then it can be introduced as a sign of empowerment in the long term possibly.

However, I am of the belief that if these oppressive systems were removed entirely then only a very small percentage would choose to wear it, that is, however, just my personal opinion.

I agree, and I can definitely see that happening with Hijabs in western countries in a couple of generations. I don't feel that really see it happening in middle eastern countries anytime soon, it just feel so far away.

In a modern context though, its place is very murky. I feel like all we can do is support and encourage muslim women, as opposed to shaming them. I disapprove of the social context that pressurises people to wear these things, however there are loads of people who wear Hijabs for other reasons, and I don't really want to presume people to be brainwashed. It's all super complex stuff.

 

[andythinkpad]

I support her action.

 

[dave is ok]

People are not banned for a difference of opinion despite what phil0sophy says

Sure they are. It's happened many times.

Sometimes mods are even demodded over banning for it

 

[hodgy100]

Lyn is a really nice genuine person, just proves my point about gaf,

Proves what? we dont know why they were banned, no one shat on them?

whats your problem? If you are trying to get banned all you will achieve is prove that you will get banned for baiting people. you arent arguing sincerely.

 

[rjinaz]

Sure they are. It's happened many times.

Sometimes mods are even demodded over banning for it

So you admit that it's not the general practice unless a mod goes rogue?

I'm not going to say moderation is perfect but I also know that it's easy to avoid getting a perm ban. I have been banned once and have 16k posts. Don't be an asshole and you can avoid it.

lol please, get your head out of the sand, you are delusional if you think that is the case, I have proven in the booger thread already that it happens.

Sorry I can't take you seriously any longer after your voat worthy post for a ban in a booger thread of all places, and neither should anybody.

 

[Kralamoonard]

The hijab is born out of oppression, if you knew anything about the history of it rather than virtue signalling you would know that.

YOU are the one being disingenuous trying to make it out to be some sort of symbol of diversity or strength or empowerment when it's anything but that in Iran or anywhere else for that matter, the truth is it was made to be oppressive.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realsp...-symbol-of-political-oppression/#2a16f919150f

Excuse me, but who the hell are you to get in the way and determine how a woman should feel for wanting to wear a hijab, something that she does between her and God?

 

[IggyChooChoo]

Yes, religious symbols are banned in public schools (and other public jobs I think). But that is actually something I agree with, since it is a public school. Opinions differ of course, but I don't think that is actual punishment.

I agree that it is not punishment, but it is by definition oppressing the individual for the sake of a political goal. I am not exactly horrified by it, but just speaking from the perspective of an American who went to school with Protestants, Catholics, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, and atheists -- all of whom flew their various flags in various ways -- it is heavy-handed and oppressive at best.

 

[Murkas]

Since every time you hear opposing opinions the only thing you can do is spout insults and buzzwords, it sure seems that it hasn't worked out so well for you.
By the way, not a single one of your bans was for "criticizing ideas", but I'm sure you love to tell your Voat friends that it was.

You're actually right lol, just hopped over there he's there bragging about it. His post history is hilarious too, typical /pol/ alt right buzzwords.