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[WanderingWind]

I am muscling through Voyager to get to some of the Borg episodes I know are coming. But, god, everybody beside the Doctor and Tuvok are incredibly annoying. Paris and Harry can't fucking act, Janeway is a new person every episode, Neelix was made to be annoying (success!) and Kes just needs to shut up and die of old age already.

Just watched the episodes where some guy from the future managed to be able to interface with tech from 800 years in the future with 1996 technology.

 

[An-Det]

Can't stand Janeway, the other characters you listed are somewhat interesting, but Janeway is an awful captain whose character changes randomly in her morals and convictions. And yea fuck the rest of the cast.

I agree that her character is inconsistent, but that was mainly a problem with writing. Mulgrew's performance is enough for me to overlook that for her.

 

[Walshicus]

I agree that her character is inconsistent, but that was mainly a problem with writing. Mulgrew's performance is enough for me to overlook that for her.

Each to their own. I hated her "acting", her accent and her demeanour. "Pecaaaaahhn pie" - ugh. That's the crazy thing about Voyager - not a single cast member was a competent actor.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I am muscling through Voyager to get to some of the Borg episodes I know are coming. But, god, everybody beside the Doctor and Tuvok are incredibly annoying. Paris and Harry can't fucking act, Janeway is a new person every episode, Neelix was made to be annoying (success!) and Kes just needs to shut up and die of old age already.

Just watched the episodes where some guy from the future managed to be able to interface with tech from 800 years in the future with 1996 technology.

Yes Harry has to be the worst actor of the lot, and such a dull person.

 

[Seda]

Doctor is easily the best thing about Voyager.

 

[The Librarian]

Yes Harry has to be the worst actor of the lot, and such a dull person.

Garret Wang can act ("Timeless"), he was just given material that he didn't have to act.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Garret Wang can act ("Timeless"), he was just given material that he didn't have to act.

One episode out of 100+ episodes of his shit acting does not really prove he can act.

 

[The Librarian]

One episode out of 100+ episodes of his shit acting does not really prove he can act.

If he was able to give a good performance in a couple of episodes, while not in many other episodes, that shows it isn't to do with the acting, but the writing.

 

[Margalis]

I hate to further contribute to the derailing of this thread from its original mission, but I just wanted to profess my love for an underrated TNG episode not on the watching list: The Most Toys. Great evil performance by Saul Rubinek (a character actor that, if you don't know by name, you probably know by the face). And it adds a texture of ambiguity to Data's character that is awesome and truly chilling.

Similarly I like the episode where Tasha Yar's sister is a rebel. ("Legacy")

Spoiler

Tasha's sister uses the crew and data to nefarious ends. At the end of the episode as she is being beamed back to her planet she goes on a soliloquy about how she considers Data a friend and how life is hard on her planet blah blah...Data completely no-sells it.

 

[BattleMonkey]

If he was able to give a good performance in a couple of episodes, while not in many other episodes, that shows it isn't to do with the acting, but the writing.

When the average is about 1% of good acting, that's not a good indicator of potential. Just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

He couldn't even handle basic simple lines or storylines, it had nothing to do with his ability, it was almost like he didn't even care about his job and was coasting through his performances. The other actors even with the same shitty material were at least able to show some character, and seem at least interesting despite how bad the plot would be.

 

[flyover]

When the average is about 1% of good acting, that's not a good indicator of potential. Just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

He couldn't even handle basic simple lines or storylines, it had nothing to do with his ability, it was almost like he didn't even care about his job and was coasting through his performances. The other actors even with the same shitty material were at least able to show some character, and seem at least interesting despite how bad the plot would be.

I'm wondering if, in the episodes where Wang (and a few of the other performers) did act well, it was in part due to good direction. A strong director can wring better performances out of mediocre actors. Most directors might've just figured "Ah, good enough!" with early takes.

Robert Picardo really did act circles around everyone else, though Jeri Ryan had her moments -- most of them working with Picardo.

 

[DrForester]

I don't blame the actors in Voyager, but the script writers. There was no consistency to their characters, especially Janeway. And Kim has nowhere to go, he just stood there.

Really think the only bad actor Trek has ever had in a main role was Jolene Blalock as T'Pol, which I think went well beyond just bad writing.

 

[flyover]

I don't blame the actors in Voyager, but the script writers. There was no consistency to their characters, especially Janeway. And Kim has nowhere to go, he just stood there.

That is a good point. It's hard to act when your character has dozens of personalities -- or none at all. (That said, I still enjoy watching Voyager. Like all the Star Trek shows -- except Enterprise, which I haven't yet seen -- it's comfort food TV.)

 

[The Lamonster]

Not a huge Star Trek fan but I know TNG at its best is some pretty good shit.

I don't have the attention span or the patience to start at episode one and wait for it to start getting good. What is a good "gateway" episode, any season, that will get me hooked on the awesomeness? I enjoy good writing and a fun plot, and preferably a stand-alone episode that doesn't just relate to an ongoing season plot.

 

[DrForester]

Not a huge Star Trek fan but I know TNG at its best is some pretty good shit.

I don't have the attention span or the patience to start at episode one and wait for it to start getting good. What is a good "gateway" episode, any season, that will get me hooked on the awesomeness? I enjoy good writing and a fun plot, and preferably a stand-alone episode that doesn't just relate to an ongoing season plot.

Other than the costumes that make everyone look skinny, and beardless Riker, the series premier "Encounter at Farpoint" is a fantastic place to start. It sets up the characters, and you get needed background for the series finale. Season 1 might have been lacking overall, but it got off to a fantastic start.

 

[WanderingWind]

You know what really sucks about Voyager? They keep running into omnipotent beings and never really get around to asking them (even after the crew has just done them a huge favor) "Hey, mind kicking up back home? You know, since we saved your entire race?"

That's just bad writing, right there.

 

[Jin34]

Is it just me or did Riker get noticeably fatter in S3?

 

[A Human Becoming]

Apparently my Dad is watching along with you guys on Netflix. He just finished the entirety of The Next Generation in 15 days, with 168 of those episodes watched in 11. I think he skipped a handful of episodes though. He only got 15 episodes into Voyager.

 

[Tobor]

Is it just me or did Riker get noticeably fatter in S3?

No, it's not just you.

I think he gained 10 pounds or so every time they let him direct an episode. Lol.

 

[hoos30]

I hate to further contribute to the derailing of this thread from its original mission, but I just wanted to profess my love for an underrated TNG episode not on the watching list: The Most Toys. Great evil performance by Saul Rubinek (a character actor that, if you don't know by name, you probably know by the face). And it adds a texture of ambiguity to Data's character that is awesome and truly chilling.

Nice ep, although it illustrates why TNG was a good but not a great show.

At the end, when Data decides that he has to

Spoiler

shoot the bad guy

, the writers go out of their way to make sure the viewers know that he wasn't successful. On DS9, any of the characters would have either definitely

Spoiler

shot his ass

or the issue would have been in serious doubt as the episode ended.

 

[ckohler]

You know what really sucks about Voyager? They keep running into omnipotent beings and never really get around to asking them (even after the crew has just done them a huge favor) "Hey, mind kicking up back home? You know, since we saved your entire race?"

That's just bad writing, right there.

Janeway does ask Q in "Q2" to send them home but he doesn't. In season 1( or 2 maybe?) there's that one race with super transporters that can send them halfway home but those people refuse to let them use it. There's also the caretaker whom they plead with twice to send them home.

They do ask.

 

[Previous]

Okay Ive never watched a start trek series (outside of the movies) so I've started to watch a few episodes of TOS and TNG and I find them surprisingly enjoyable, but I think I'm going to take gaf's advise and just skip seasons 1&2 of tng, other then the episodes listed in the op are there any other episodes that are a must watch in the first couple of seasons?

 

[The Lamonster]

Not a huge Star Trek fan but I know TNG at its best is some pretty good shit.

I don't have the attention span or the patience to start at episode one and wait for it to start getting good. What is a good "gateway" episode, any season, that will get me hooked on the awesomeness? I enjoy good writing and a fun plot, and preferably a stand-alone episode that doesn't just relate to an ongoing season plot.

Other than the costumes that make everyone look skinny, and beardless Riker, the series premier "Encounter at Farpoint" is a fantastic place to start. It sets up the characters, and you get needed background for the series finale. Season 1 might have been lacking overall, but it got off to a fantastic start.

Thanks; any other recommendations besides the first episode?

 

[DrForester]

Thanks; any other recommendations besides the first episode?

Stick with the TNG misdoes in my OP. There's about 6 or 7 season 1 episodes there from Season 1 I'd say all are worth it.

 

[magichans]

I've been watching TNG a lot lately. Anyone else notice how they play really dramatic music before zooming on on a character and cutting to a break a few times through each ep? It freaks me out sometimes like its extremely suspenseful even though its completely mundane, lol.

 

[Escape Goat]

So Praxis explodes which obviously sends planetary material outward at sublight speeds. So was Captain Sulu just hanging out outside of the solar system when it exploded? I doubt the Klingons would have allowed that! If the explosion had occurred a long time ago they wouldn't have hailed Praxis and saw Hell breaking loose before being cut off.

Seems awfully sloppy writing right off the bat just to get the plot rolling.

 

[DrForester]

So Praxis explodes which obviously sends planetary material outward at sublight speeds. So was Captain Sulu just hanging out outside of the solar system when it exploded? I doubt the Klingons would have allowed that! If the explosion had occurred a long time ago they wouldn't have hailed Praxis and saw Hell breaking loose before being cut off.

Seems awfully sloppy writing right off the bat just to get the plot rolling.

Not that it makes anymore sense, but it was supposed to have been the shock wave of the explosion, not debris.

 

[Tobor]

Note to self:

Never get in a shuttle going any further than a quick orbital drop. Actually, better stay away from shuttles altogether.

 

[ScrabbleDude]

Just noticed that all the movies are on netflix now. Which ones are worth watching?

 

[Tobor]

Just noticed that all the movies are on netflix now. Which ones are worth watching?

All of them!

Especially V. That's the best one.

 

[Escape Goat]

Just noticed that all the movies are on netflix now. Which ones are worth watching?

Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country


skip The Motionless Picture, Final Frontier

 

[DrForester]

I would not skip The Motion picture. It is a very different type of Star Trek film, and overall is pretty good. None of the other films would be anything like it.

Final Frontier was genuine crap.

 

[ScrabbleDude]

So none of the TNG movies are any good?

 

[Escape Goat]

They're not on Netflix yet. Or are they?

In any event, First Contact is the only good one. The rest are barely passable to shit.

 

[ScrabbleDude]

Oh, you're right. They're not. Had to double check. I remembered enjoying First Contact, and had it on VHS. Never watched any of the others though. And none of the original cast.

 

[flyover]

I've been watching TNG a lot lately. Anyone else notice how they play really dramatic music before zooming on on a character and cutting to a break a few times through each ep? It freaks me out sometimes like its extremely suspenseful even though its completely mundane, lol.

Yeah, seems like that was part of the grammar of making dramatic TV back in the 80s (and early 90s). Glad things have changed -- although I'm sure we're doing things now that will look strange in a couple of decades.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Janeway does ask Q in "Q2" to send them home but he doesn't. In season 1( or 2 maybe?) there's that one race with super transporters that can send them halfway home but those people refuse to let them use it. There's also the caretaker whom they plead with twice to send them home.

They do ask.

Except there was the 2nd meeting where voyager basically saves the contnium and is so friendly with Q, but they don't ask him then or get rewarded for it. Sort of made sense the first time, but the second time it didn't.

 

[DrForester]

Janeway does ask Q in "Q2" to send them home but he doesn't. In season 1( or 2 maybe?) there's that one race with super transporters that can send them halfway home but those people refuse to let them use it. There's also the caretaker whom they plead with twice to send them home.

They do ask.

In this case they stole the technology on the black market and nearly destroyed Voyager when they tried to use it.

 

[Lo-Volt]

Watching Reunion.

"you will die slowly...Duras".

Oh, Gowron, you so silly.

These are great episodes, but I still maintain the Klingons are better as villains.

Spoiler

"Your blood will paint the way to the future!"

 

[Cheerilee]

Just noticed that all the movies are on netflix now. Which ones are worth watching?

The Motion Picture = Very unique. Hard to say if it's good or bad. Unless you have attention deficit disorder, in which case it's very bad and you should stay the hell away from it.

The Wrath of Kahn = Great movie that still hold up. Many lesser movies wish they were this movie. It's a bit better if you've seen a certain TOS episode first, but not required. Best Trek movie.

The Search for Spock = Kind of bad, but it sits between better movies as part of a story arc, so you'll want to watch it, even if it drags the others down a little.

The Voyage Home = Very dated with an unusual sense of humor.

The Final Frontier = Bad. You can easily skip this one.

The Undiscovered Country = Great movie that still holds up, and provides a great end to TOS.

So none of the TNG movies are any good?

They're worth watching because then you can fully appreciate Mr Plinkett's reviews of them.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=438950

"Star Trek Generations is the stupidest movie ever made. It ruined everything, and not just Star Trek movies, but everything."

 

[Htown]

So none of the TNG movies are any good?

I love First Contact.

 

[DrForester]

First Contact really should be viewed just for the experience.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Yeah, First Contact is legitimately good while the others are nearly unwatchable. I remember trying to re-watch Insurrection for the first time in years and being really turned off.

 

[beelzebozo]

Yeah, First Contact is legitimately good while the others are nearly unwatchable. I remember trying to re-watch Insurrection for the first time in years and being really turned off.

it's such a shame

watching TNG again it makes it really clear how great the cast was together, but it went completely to waste in the films beyond FIRST CONTACT.

 

[Tobor]

I like everything about First Contact except the

Spoiler

retconning of the Borg queen.

I hated that.

 

[The Librarian]

I like everything about First Contact except the

Spoiler

retconning of the Borg queen.

I hated that.

You think in such three-dimensional terms.

 

[Tobor]

You think in such three-dimensional terms.

They should have just said they

Spoiler

created her due to their inability to defeat the humans, or something like that. Saying she was always there all along irritated me.

 

[beelzebozo]

that didn't bother me much. minor quibble. it had a great balance of drama and humor, for my money. the stakes seemed very real: there's something emotionally effective

Spoiler

about the adulteration of the enterprise, a place we know pretty intimately.

cromwell is charming as hell, if a little over the top. i love it dearly.

i'm okay with some minor fluctuations in continuity in the films, if the movie that those fluctuations produces is as entertaining as FIRST CONTACT.

JEAN LUC, BLOW UP THE DAMN SHIP

 

[elrechazado]

THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE. NO FURTHER.

 

[Walshicus]

that didn't bother me much. minor quibble. it had a great balance of drama and humor, for my money. the stakes seemed very real: there's something emotionally effective

Spoiler

about the adulteration of the enterprise, a place we know pretty intimately.

cromwell is charming as hell, if a little over the top. i love it dearly.

i'm okay with some minor fluctuations in continuity in the films, if the movie that those fluctuations produces is as entertaining as FIRST CONTACT.

JEAN LUC, BLOW UP THE DAMN SHIP

I still think "Federation" did a much better job of telling Zefram Cochrane's story.