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[TheFatOne]

Like I said in the OP, if you enjoy it, watch it all. trek is good, even when it's not at it's best.

As for City on the Edge of Forever, the episode is widely regarded as the best episode of the entire franchise. It was just an amazing story.

I was just blown away by that episode. I thought the special effects would bother me, but the story and characters are compelling. Most of the time I forget about the special effects.

Edit: Well I think my brother just gave me a major spoiler about the original trek series Ahh damn google. I googled it and I think i just spoiled the original series for myself. FUCK YOU GOOGLE

 

[Fusebox]

No, he was played by William Campbell, who also plays Koloth, a familiar Klingon commander throughout the original series.

Thx for the info. Admittedly I'm no Liberace expert, lol...

 

[elrechazado]

another trek universe question - always wondered what the rank between captain and admiral is. In TNG especially, you have admirals coming out of the ass everywhere, with their 6 rank insignia dots. Captains of course have 4. What's a 5 ranker called, if there is one? I remember one TOS episode where there was a commodore...I believe he outranked kirk. Have we ever seen anything in between admiral and captain in TNG?

 

[the_painted_bird]

Admiral is pretty much right under General, Cappy is a bit more below them.

Edit: Wait this is Star Trek

 

[elrechazado]

Admiral is pretty much right under General, Cappy is a bit more below them.

I don't think so - starfleet is a fleet - modeled on navies. there is no general in a navy, and I don't recall ever seeing one in any star trek series even if there is such a rank in navies.

 

[Qwomo]

I think in TOS it's Captain -> Commodore -> Admiral.

 

[DrForester]

another trek universe question - always wondered what the rank between captain and admiral is. In TNG especially, you have admirals coming out of the ass everywhere, with their 6 rank insignia dots. Captains of course have 4. What's a 5 ranker called, if there is one? I remember one TOS episode where there was a commodore...I believe he outranked kirk. Have we ever seen anything in between admiral and captain in TNG?

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Starfleet_ranks

Rear Admiral
Vice Admiral
Admiral

 

[NihonTiger90]

another trek universe question - always wondered what the rank between captain and admiral is. In TNG especially, you have admirals coming out of the ass everywhere, with their 6 rank insignia dots. Captains of course have 4. What's a 5 ranker called, if there is one? I remember one TOS episode where there was a commodore...I believe he outranked kirk. Have we ever seen anything in between admiral and captain in TNG?

Rear Admiral and Vice Admiral.

 

[elrechazado]

Rear Admiral and Vice Admiral.

Can anyone name any eps where we've seen anyone with these ranks?

 

[Jin34]

You know I've only watched random TNG eps and wondered why so many people hated Wesley, now that I've watched a few S1 episodes I completely understand. For some reason he is written as some sort of Gohan character, right down to him being annoying.

 

[Schmattakopf]

Coincidentally, I was just watching The Enemy Within and saw this thread. I never saw this episode. It is possibly one of the cheesiest episodes. Wow.

 

[The Librarian]

Can anyone name any eps where we've seen anyone with these ranks?

William Ross – S6 and S7 of DS9.

 

[DrForester]

Edit: Well I think my brother just gave me a major spoiler about the original trek series Ahh damn google. I googled it and I think i just spoiled the original series for myself. FUCK YOU GOOGLE

What was it? Can't think of anything on TOS that would qualify as a series spoiler.

 

[Cheerilee]

What was it? Can't think of anything on TOS that would qualify as a series spoiler.

A certain character dies in an early TOS movie?

That's not really a series spoiler though, because it doesn't affect the stories in the series. Everyone has to die eventually.

 

[NihonTiger90]

Can anyone name any eps where we've seen anyone with these ranks?

Chain of Command (season 6; first two episodes from the October 1 week watch list)

 

[BigDug13]

Navy ranks are used for most of the Science Fiction space stuff. But I think they also do like our real Navy and many of them have Marines onboard as well.

Captain Needa became Admiral Needa in Star Wars using the "choke-out spot promotion" method. But General Veers was in charge of the ground assault like he was in the Marines.

BSG had both Navy and Marine ranks and kinda mixed them on the way down. Admiral, Commander, Colonel, Major, Captain, LT, Engign. Then the Enlisted ranks stuck to Navy ranks of Master Chief on down.

Star Trek was weird. You never really heard of an Enlisted person until they made O'Brien an actual Chief on DS9. (Pretty sure he was holding the rank of Lieutenant when he was operating the transporter on the Enterprise.)

But that's not exactly unusual either. In the U.S. Navy, the enlisted person does the really technical work. But the Navy in other nations, such as South Korea, has the Officers getting all of the technical training and the enlisted person just there to do really menial tasks.

I think Star Trek follows that idea. Example: The Chief Engineer (LCDR LaForge) actually jumping in and repairing the systems while the Chief Engineer (a Commander) on the ship I'm on right now (an Aircraft Carrier, like the current USS ENTERPRISE) would just call some enlisted sailors to repair the problems.

 

[Dares]

Yeah I never really understood O'Brien, why is he the only enlisted I've seen on Trek? Also, on DS9 there are ~800 officers on the base and Lieutenants and stuff as the "senior" staff?

 

[BFIB]

My GAF account was just activated, and it couldn't have been at a better time.

I've been lurking this thread for the past week or so, can't wait to join in the ongoing discussion on this series. I've seen some of TNG, but have never seen TOS all the way through.

One question, I saw on Netflix that The Cage in TOS is available for disc only. I take it this is the finale to TOS, how much am I going to miss out on?

 

[Escape Goat]

Yeah I never really understood O'Brien, why is he the only enlisted I've seen on Trek? Also, on DS9 there are ~800 officers on the base and Lieutenants and stuff as the "senior" staff?

I guess O'Brien was always the Transporter "Chief" which is an actual enlisted rank. I think they meant it as a title in TNG and DS9 decided to introduce enlisted crew into Starfleet in a formal fashion. As far as why hes the only one? I imagine just to give him a singular distinction on the show.


Theres only 6-7 senior staff members. But even Wesley Crusher as an actin ensign outranks Chief O'Brien since Ensign is an officer.

 

[bengraven]

Shouldn't we add "Errand of Mercy" to TOS?

It's the first appearance of the Klingons, probably the most significant alien species in the canon next to Vulcans.



Edit: speaking of which, I'm watching "Balance of Terror", the first appearance of the Romulans. What was all the drama from ST2009 about humans not recognizing a Romulan vessel 20 years earlier, because man hadn't made contact with Romulans? In this episode they say Earth was at war with Romul---planet. (Romulus?). They admit in the episode that they wouldn't know what a Romulan vessel is after 100 years of no contact but wouldn't the computer recognize the language being spoken if they scan the vessel or whatever?

I don't know, I'm not a Trekkie, if I haven't made that obvious.

 

[Zenith]

Commissioned vs non-coms on Star Trek was really weird. At first it sounds like everyone goes through Starfleet Academy, then in DS9 they said that only officers went through it. What did non-coms get? Community college?

 

[Duane Cunningham]

My GAF account was just activated, and it couldn't have been at a better time.

I've been lurking this thread for the past week or so, can't wait to join in the ongoing discussion on this series. I've seen some of TNG, but have never seen TOS all the way through.

One question, I saw on Netflix that The Cage in TOS is available for disc only. I take it this is the finale to TOS, how much am I going to miss out on?

It's there... it's the first episode on disc one. The Cage isn't the finale, it's the pilot.

The actual order is The Cage>Where No Man Has Gone Before>Man Trap>etc. It's just not in order on the disc, because when NBC aired it, they played Man Trap first, WNMHGB fourth, and never showed The Cage at all. Later in the season, there's a two part episode called The Menagerie that re-uses almost all the footage from The Cage.

 

[thetrin]

Commissioned vs non-coms on Star Trek was really weird. At first it sounds like everyone goes through Starfleet Academy, then in DS9 they said that only officers went through it. What did non-coms get? Community college?

They just enlist, I assume.

So, I'm watching the episode of TNG called "The Game". I can't tell if it's an awesome episode, or a hilarious future for video games.

 

[Escape Goat]

Commissioned vs non-coms on Star Trek was really weird. At first it sounds like everyone goes through Starfleet Academy, then in DS9 they said that only officers went through it. What did non-coms get? Community college?

They had one on TNG with the half Romulan medican technician that was accused of being a spy. He didn't go to the Academy but went directly into service.

 

[The Big Rig]

Ok, I just started watching Justice from TNG. This has to have been some nerdy writer's dream to have a planet filled with good looking people who want to fuck at a moment's notice.

 

[bengraven]

Oh shit, I thought I recognized the Romulan leader in Balance of Terror.

He's Sarek!

Also apparently played a Klingon in the first ST film.

 

[michaeltraps]

So I'm watching Star Trek for the first time, starting with Voyager (no real reason, just picked one). I really like it, though I'm not understanding why Voyager seems to get so much hate. Any reasons in particular?

 

[Walshicus]

I think in TOS it's Captain -> Commodore -> Admiral.

I hated how they replaced Commodore with bloody "Rear Admiral".

Commissioned vs non-coms on Star Trek was really weird. At first it sounds like everyone goes through Starfleet Academy, then in DS9 they said that only officers went through it. What did non-coms get? Community college?

The "everyone is an officer" approach was something that Gene pushed for I believe. After his death you see that change.

 

[ckohler]

So I'm watching Star Trek for the first time, starting with Voyager (no real reason, just picked one). I really like it, though I'm not understanding why Voyager seems to get so much hate. Any reasons in particular?

I think it's because the series has some real stinker episodes every so often and sometimes the stories or character motivations make no sense.

However I've never really understood the hate either. I think it's a great series, especially once you reach Season Four. People seem to really despise Janeway but I think she's one of the best aspects of the show. I LOVE when she gets pissed off or goes on a rant. Wait until she and Seven of Nine start arguing. Those are some seriously epic moments.

 

[Walshicus]

two more questions, this time about tng casting:
Why did tasha yar character leave the show?
Why did dr. crusher leave for season 2 then come back?

Weren't there rumours that Gates McFadden left due to sexual harassment by one of the producers - who subsequently left the show prior to her return?

 

[michaeltraps]

I think it's because the series has some real stinker episodes every so often and sometimes the stories or character motivations make no sense.

However I've never really understood the hate either. I think it's a great series, especially once you reach Season Four. People seem to really despise Janeway but I think she's one of the best aspects of the show. I LOVE when she gets pissed off or goes on a rant. Wait until she and Seven of Nine start arguing. Those are some seriously epic moments.

Thanks! I just finished season 1. The finale didn't seem like much of a finale, then I found out that S2E1 ("The 37s") was intended to be the S1 finale but UPN had them cut it from the schedule. I really like Janeway as well, I think it's one of the reasons I'm so perplexed by the hate.

 

[Goreomedy]

So I'm watching Star Trek for the first time, starting with Voyager (no real reason, just picked one). I really like it, though I'm not understanding why Voyager seems to get so much hate. Any reasons in particular?

For me: At first, the isolation gimmick. Then with the start of season 4, an embarrassing focus on a single character's sex appeal.

 

[Walshicus]

Thanks! I just finished season 1. The finale didn't seem like much of a finale, then I found out that S2E1 ("The 37s") was intended to be the S1 finale but UPN had them cut it from the schedule. I really like Janeway as well, I think it's one of the reasons I'm so perplexed by the hate.

If you're only one series into Voyager then your experience with the crew is likely to regard them as inoffensive yet boring.

As you progress through the series' each character descends into their own rut. Janeway is just offensive by the end of it.

 

[methos75]

Voyager still isn't playing for me god dammit

 

[The Librarian]

So I'm watching Star Trek for the first time, starting with Voyager (no real reason, just picked one). I really like it, though I'm not understanding why Voyager seems to get so much hate. Any reasons in particular?

The last five or so pages of this thread have various people explain why Voyager was a letdown.

 

[jagowar]

So I'm watching Star Trek for the first time, starting with Voyager (no real reason, just picked one). I really like it, though I'm not understanding why Voyager seems to get so much hate. Any reasons in particular?

The first time watching trek bit I think is one reason.... For those of us that watched it as the shows aired voyager came on right after ds9 which many will say is the best trek (esp the 2nd half of the ds9 series).... so our expectations were very high (too high) for voyager. Since you are coming in w/o that ds9 perspective it doesn't have anything to live up to for you.

 

[DrForester]

Oh shit, I thought I recognized the Romulan leader in Balance of Terror.

He's Sarek!

Also apparently played a Klingon in the first ST film.

Star Trek had a lot of actors they went to to play all sorts of parts. If you have a sharp eye you'll spot them over and over again. There's one in particular who plays several one-episode, and two recurring characters and had to play two of them in one episode.

All in all they're very good at playing several roles, and you never really figure it out unless you're looking.

 

[An-Det]

So I'm watching Star Trek for the first time, starting with Voyager (no real reason, just picked one). I really like it, though I'm not understanding why Voyager seems to get so much hate. Any reasons in particular?

Voyager isnt bad, it just isnt exceptional. The weekly stories are on par with TNG, but the cast overall is weaker; Janeway, The Doctor, Tuvok, and Seven are all great, the rest are just kind of there. It's not perfect, but the hatred is very much overblown and it's a fine show in its own right.

 

[Escape Goat]

Its not like the Voyager hate isn't justified. The series never rises above average except for a few shining gems like Year of Hell (

Spoiler

reset button. ugh

) and a few character stories on The Doctor and Seven.


They wanted to get rid of Garret Wang because he came into work late/unprepared and nobody really liked him. But when he SOMEHOW showed up on People Magazine's Top 100 SEXIEST CELEBRITIES they kept him and gave Jennifer Lein the boot. Who sucks but sucks less than Garret "I have no personality" Wang.

 

[WillyFive]

Its not like the Voyager hate isn't justified.

It's not.

The series never rises above average except for a few shining gems like Year of Hell (

Spoiler

reset button. ugh

) and a few character stories on The Doctor and Seven.

That doesn't make it justified, even if you believed it. It just makes it 'average'. To be hated, it has to be something offensive, not something with 'a few shining gems'.

 

[Escape Goat]

It's not.



To be hated, it has to be something offensive, not something with 'a few shining gems'.

Shitty writing is offensive.

 

[Slayven]

Its not like the Voyager hate isn't justified. The series never rises above average except for a few shining gems like Year of Hell (

Spoiler

reset button. ugh

) and a few character stories on The Doctor and Seven.


They wanted to get rid of Garret Wang because he came into work late/unprepared and nobody really liked him. But when he SOMEHOW showed up on People Magazine's Top 100 SEXIEST CELEBRITIES they kept him and gave Jennifer Lein the boot. Who sucks but sucks less than Garret "I have no personality" Wang.

He had that frowny/sighing face thing he did.

 

[An-Det]

Its not like the Voyager hate isn't justified. The series never rises above average except for a few shining gems like Year of Hell (

Spoiler

reset button. ugh

) and a few character stories on The Doctor and Seven.


They wanted to get rid of Garret Wang because he came into work late/unprepared and nobody really liked him. But when he SOMEHOW showed up on People Magazine's Top 100 SEXIEST CELEBRITIES they kept him and gave Jennifer Lein the boot. Who sucks but sucks less than Garret "I have no personality" Wang.

I've been reading the trivia on Memory Alpha for each episode of Star Trek as I watch them, and I recently finished Scorpion. On that page, it notes that Wang himself wasnt sure he'd survive or why he was kept on, and also notes that People list only had Patrick Stewart on there, so he surmised that that helped him a lot.

 

[Fox Mulder]

It's not.

That doesn't make it justified, even if you believed it. It just makes it 'average'. To be hated, it has to be something offensive, not something with 'a few shining gems'.

Voyager has shitty writing, shitty character development (little to none), and takes things like the Q and the Borg to new levels of horrible for the franchise. It's mediocre with a few great episodes, and never reaches the height of greatness that TNG and DS9 lived in. Voyager was a wasted opportunity that looks worse with the franchise being dead on tv.

 

[Zzoram]

I thought they got rid of Tess because giving her long hair didn't sex her up enough so they brought in Seven to replace her with the catsuit and giant mammaries to more successfully create eye candy.

 

[DrForester]

Would make no sense to get rid of Kin instead of Kes if they knew they were bringing in Seven. Seven kind of replaced Kes as the outside observer of humanity you see in all trek series (Spock, Data, Odo)

 

[Nekofrog]

Star Trek's officer circle jerk really doesn't make any sense when you sit and look at how Starfleet operates.

But it all comes from Roddenberry, who was an officer in the Army Air Corpse (now the Air Force, duh). The AF is one huge officer circle jerk as well, so it stands to reason it was back when he was in.

 

[The Librarian]

I think it's because the series has some real stinker episodes every so often and sometimes the stories or character motivations make no sense.

However I've never really understood the hate either. I think it's a great series, especially once you reach Season Four. People seem to really despise Janeway but I think she's one of the best aspects of the show. I LOVE when she gets pissed off or goes on a rant. Wait until she and Seven of Nine start arguing. Those are some seriously epic moments.

From what I remember of Janeway and Seven's arguments, they mostly consisted of Janeway contradicting herself and Seven calling out Janeway on her bullshit. I've seen it pointed out somewhere before. I haven't watched Voyager in awhile, so I could be wrong.

 

[Taichu]

I finished watching TNG through discs on Netflix, so I started watching Voyager via streaming. I don't really get the hate on it either, because I blew through the first season really enjoying the characters/plotline/episodes. There were a lot of TNG episodes that were pretty hard to get through, but so far the Voyager ones have been great. The only real complaint I have is Neelix... he would be better if his design/makeup/clothing wasn't so awkward.

 

[AceBandage]

I finished watching TNG through discs on Netflix, so I started watching Voyager via streaming. I don't really get the hate on it either, because I blew through the first season really enjoying the characters/plotline/episodes. There were a lot of TNG episodes that were pretty hard to get through, but so far the Voyager ones have been great. The only real complaint I have is Neelix... he would be better if his design/makeup/clothing wasn't so awkward.

I loved Voyager, myself. Especially all the Borg ass kicking.