Star Wars Battlefront will not have ironsights

Sojgat said:
Yay, the worst Battlefield ever will have a longer life because this Star Wars game doesn't have ADS?
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BF4 started out as the worst battlefield ever. I've been there since day one. The game has gotten it together. The new DLC maps are some of the best in the series. Love BF4. Still not as good as bad company 2, though.
 
impact said:
What non-ADS shooters do you play?

ADS pretty much guarantees shallow gunplay, non-existent recoil and just an overall easier experience. I dunno about you but I don't like my multiplayer games to be easy/scrubby. I enjoy my skill shining and not being held back by scrub mechanics and a skill ceiling.
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I play a lot of Halo, as well as Unreal Tournament back in the day, a bit of Counter Strike.

I don't understand what makes it shallow...there's a decent amount of recoil while aiming down ironsights in Battlefield and others in my opinion. From my personal experience it doesn't really take more of my skill to be able to hit someone without ironsights than with...
 
impact said:
What non-ADS shooters do you play?

ADS pretty much guarantees shallow gunplay, non-existent recoil and just an overall easier experience. I dunno about you but I don't like my multiplayer games to be easy/scrubby. I enjoy my skill shining and not being held back by scrub mechanics and a skill ceiling.
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See Arma or Star Citizen again for your hardcore 1337 pro shooter or look at Killzone 2 for a game where both ADS and hip fire work well. On to current games, Destiny has great gameplay (for all its fault) and it has ADS, and despite all the hate for game design it gets, COD inarguably has great gunplay for the type of game it is...and it is entirely centered around ADS. Battlefront is not going to be a realistic shooter, so having an absurd amount of recoil makes no sense in the first place. Even more if you are shooting lasers, plus if you really want it to be realistic then why would it make sense to not aim to stabalise the recoil and continue to hip fire ?

More fluid/more accessible controls do not necessarily mean easy game and easily accessible does not necessarily equates to scrubby gameplay. In fact I would argue a hard to access game would result in more scrubbiness in the game as people will stick even more to what works the easiest and gets them the easiest kills.. I can guarantee you that Battlefront will have its fair share of scrubby guns and tactics that players use, because every game has those. ADS does not automatically mean the game becomes easy there are multiple other factors that determine that.
 
Scrawnton said:
BF4 started out as the worst battlefield ever. I've been there since day one. The game has gotten it together. The new DLC maps are some of the best in the series. Love BF4. Still not as good as bad company 2, though.
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It's definitely a lot better than it was, but if I go through and rank all the major series releases, it's still in last place for me.
 
Sojgat said:
It's definitely a lot better than it was, but if I go through and rank all the major series releases, it's still in last place for me.
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I'm just going to trust you on this. Outside of playing a bit of Battlefield 2 on pc, all my other battlefield experiences have been on console. I love it. I'm actually a bit sad that Battlefront isn't star wars battlefield.
 
I'd wager that games like CoD and Destiny didn't implement hip firing correctly vs ADS being an advancement.

Hip Fire is awesome and it's butchered in CoD.
 
koshunter said:
You do stop with ADS though. When you pull up the Iron Sights, your character slows down. Movement is hampered so you can shoot more precisely.

And shooting while moving is considered better by me simply because you have to take into account a variety of factors not present or not present to the same degree in an ADS environment. For example, in a typical Halo encounter, this would be both you and your opponents strafing, jumping, what have you while trying to pin the other player as quickly as possible with the 3 or 4 shot weapon you have. It's just more factors to consider while also not slowing down the pace of the game for the sake of precision.
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How does that make sense?

starfing and jumping with a 4 shot weapon over a period of what 5 seconds vs the other game where you would get shot down for doing something as stupid as jumping in a fight
 
impact said:
What non-ADS shooters do you play?

ADS pretty much guarantees shallow gunplay, non-existent recoil and just an overall easier experience. I dunno about you but I don't like my multiplayer games to be easy/scrubby. I enjoy my skill shining and not being held back by scrub mechanics and a skill ceiling.
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You sound like tons of fun to play games with you should have worked some More condescending names into this post it could have used at least another scrub or two.

People blindly hate cod so they don't like aim down sites. Cod has had a perk that lets you move and strafe faster when aiming for years.

This kills the hype for me just running around hip firing all over the place seems less skilled and to be honest kind of boring.
 
I am ok with this. I mean Blasters in Star Wars do not have scopes.
Edit: Also Halo 1 didn't have ADS I think and I love that game.
 
it might not have iron sights but maybe its gonna have some form of zoom or aim focus. i cant imagine it wont given its gonna be 20 vs 20 and the maps may be fairly huge.

EDIT: fixed because my brain
 
I'm fine with this, but I'd prefer that they'd stick with either 1st or 3rd person, not both. 3rd person has a massive FoV, you can spot enemies from a corridor corner without revealing yourself, you can see behind yourself, massive range of spotting in your peripheral, etc.. I'm aware Battlefront 2 was like this and I don't think it's a good enough justification.
 
RexNovis said:
To be clear I personally never said ADS was objectively worse it's just different. Games without ADS can be an absolute blast to play just as much as games with it can be. The objection I made was to the people stating it was a design advancement that should be utilized in every FPS game. As if any FPS without ADS is somehow not "modern." I vehemently disagree with that assessment. I think ADS and non ADS offer very different play styles and there is room for both.

I do, however, think it's a shame when series built around hip fire mechanics add ADS under this misguided assumption that lack of it makes it somehow behind the times as has been done in Halo 5.
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Oh yea, fully agreed there. There's certainly a place for both.

koshunter said:
You do stop with ADS though. When you pull up the Iron Sights, your character slows down. Movement is hampered so you can shoot more precisely.

And shooting while moving is considered better by me simply because you have to take into account a variety of factors not present or not present to the same degree in an ADS environment. For example, in a typical Halo encounter, this would be both you and your opponents strafing, jumping, what have you while trying to pin the other player as quickly as possible with the 3 or 4 shot weapon you have. It's just more factors to consider while also not slowing down the pace of the game for the sake of precision.
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I mean, I really don't 'stop'. I do slow down but I don't stay still in my place. That's the quickest way to die lol, I'm always moving while aiming down sights, albeit at a slower pace. I agree that in non-ADS encounters like in Halo for example, you're mechanically able to do more things, but I guess I mean the aspect of aiming doesn't feel more skill-based to me personally. Trying to hit someone while aiming down a sight doesn't feel less skillful than not, for me at least.
 
shinobi602 said:
I play a lot of Halo, as well as Unreal Tournament back in the day, a bit of Counter Strike.

I don't understand what makes it shallow...there's a decent amount of recoil while aiming down ironsights in Battlefield and others in my opinion. From my personal experience it doesn't really take more of my skill to be able to hit someone without ironsights than with...
Click to expand...

There's like no recoil on any guns in BF/CoD...

If you really did play UT and CS then I shouldn't really have to explain it to you. If you think aiming at someone in CoD is the same amount of skill as aiming at someone in CS then you didn't play CS. All the ADS games are just ADS then spray and you'll kill something 99% of the time. It's scrubby as hell.

constantstatic said:
You sound like tons of fun to play games with you should have worked some More condescending names into this post it could have used at least another scrub or two.

People blindly hate cod so they don't like aim down sites. Cod has had a perk that lets you move and strafe faster when aiming for years.

This kills the hype for me just running around hip firing all over the place seems less skilled and to be honest kind of boring.
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Thanks. The fact that you call aiming a gun and shooting "hipfire" says all you need to say. l o l
 
Setsuna said:
How does that make sense?

starfing and jumping with a 4 shot weapon over a period of what 5 seconds vs the other game where you would get shot down for doing something as stupid as jumping in a fight
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You're talking about the time to kill. I'm talking about movement while aiming.

I'm not sure I understand your point to be honest.
 
shinobi602 said:
I play a lot of Halo, as well as Unreal Tournament back in the day, a bit of Counter Strike.

I don't understand what makes it shallow...there's a decent amount of recoil while aiming down ironsights in Battlefield and others in my opinion. From my personal experience it doesn't really take more of my skill to be able to hit someone without ironsights than with...
Click to expand...

It doesn't make it shallow in every case, what a huge generalization. It's just a passive way of putting others down.
 
More games need to take this approach. While there isnt anything wrong with iron sights, some games are arguably better without them, including this and a certain microsoft exclusive that's abandoned its old play style.
 
shinobi602 said:
Both forms of play are fine by me, but it always puzzles me why many feel ADS automatically makes games slower than not. Most shooters I play with ADS move at a pretty fast pace (Battlefield, COD, etc) and don't feel like I 'stop' at all. In fact they sometimes feel faster than games without ADS.

I also don't understand the inherent drawback in taking time to aim down an ironsight. Meaning, why is constantly moving while shooting considered 'better'? From the shooters I've played, it doesn't feel like it takes more skill. Feels like moving while aiming/following your target down the sight takes as much focus as getting the bead on someone while moving as in non-ADS shooters, but maybe that's just me personally.
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Its jarring, the animation to place the iron sight then the change in perspective, ontop of the slowed down shooting people usually spray bullets on the x axis, you cant trail people in a diagonal motion, its hard to aim mid flight and the biggest catastrophe is having the left trigger dedicated to zoom, which is used more than the trigger. Its backwards step. Hate it.
 
impact said:
There's like no recoil on any guns in BF/CoD...

If you really did play UT and CS then I shouldn't really have to explain it to you. If you think aiming at someone in CoD is the same amount of skill as aiming at someone in CS then you didn't play CS. All the ADS games are just ADS then spray and you'll kill something 99% of the time. It's scrubby as hell.



Thanks. The fact that you call aiming a gun and shooting "hipfire" says all you need to say. l o l
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All your stating is "I don't like thing", nothing factual from your posts.
 
im gonna be a bit worried, the first time i played Battlefront 2 online on my PS2 i went with the riflemen class, everybody else was rocket soldiers. i had no chance and zero kills. i really don't want this to be the same again.
 
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I'm trying to keep my expectations in check. I really am. But Battlefront seems to be on trajectory to diverge from modern shooter tropes in the most wonderful ways. I desperately want this game to be more than just me too shoot-bangs in space.
 
Hip Hop said:
All your stating is "I don't like thing", nothing factual from your posts.
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All while he is being condescending and putting others down. I don't think he has a real argument. So he just keeps calling people scrubs and to get good it's such a cliche and tiring to read.

They could make it like halo 5 where they both have the same accuracy. So if people want to run around and spray from the hip they can or people who like a more realistic and immersive option can aim down sites.

It seems odd to have 40 v 40 and no way to accurately shoot someone across the map. How are you suppose to hip fire an assault rifle and hit someone long range?

I'm assuming it will have zoom to aim on the left trigger or clicking the left stick you just won't bring up the iron site.
 
impact said:
There's like no recoil on any guns in BF/CoD...

If you really did play UT and CS then I shouldn't really have to explain it to you. If you think aiming at someone in CoD is the same amount of skill as aiming at someone in CS then you didn't play CS. All the ADS games are just ADS then spray and you'll kill something 99% of the time. It's scrubby as hell.



Thanks. The fact that you call aiming a gun and shooting "hipfire" says all you need to say. l o l
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Personally I don't find aiming at CS particulary hard, I mean your first shot is almost dead center in the crosshair (varies per the gun's "randomness" stat which I forgot the name). What I find hard is to aim a target that is good at evasive strafing, while strafing myself and canceling my strafing momentum properly to have my accurate shot.
 
After reading all these comments, I'm sorry 343i. I see the dilemma you're in with trying to please "modern gamers".

But fuck ADS. It is not needed.
 
I hope this means the emphasis is on third person. I'd rather one perspective look and control really well than both be middling clunk.
 
I don't remember any storm troopers aiming down their sights in the movies. These guns are meant to be shot from the hip
 
I would have been fine with Battlefield with Star Wars dudes. That being said, I'm getting heavy into CSGO, and I'm loving no ADS.
 
Helacious said:
Personally I don't find aiming at CS particulary hard, I mean your first shot is almost dead center in the crosshair (varies per the gun's "randomness" stat which I forgot the name). What I find hard is to aim a target that is good at evasive strafing, while strafing myself and canceling my strafing momentum properly to have my accurate shot.
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Well yea... no one other than bots shoots their gun standing still or stands still while you shoot them...
 
Welfare said:
After reading all these comments, I'm sorry 343i. I see the dilemma you're in with trying to please "modern gamers".

But fuck ADS. It is not needed.
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Honestly, I think 343's compromise is pretty good. It appeases those who want ADS for "immersion" reasons and also appeases those who want Halo gameplay.


Let's not derail this thread though...
 
constantstatic said:
It seems odd to have 40 v 40 and no way to accurately shoot someone across the map. How are you suppose to hip fire an assault rifle and hit someone long range?
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Where is 40 v 40 coming from? The game's highest player count mode allows for 40 players total. 20 v 20, not 40 v 40.
 
Sojgat said:
Yay, the worst Battlefield ever will have a longer life because this Star Wars game doesn't have ADS?
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Speak for yourself. BF4 is my favourite shooter, and when a new game comes out, Battlefront, normally the player base would shift to that game, if it is similar enough. Since DICE is doing it, it looks like BF4 fans should be getting a game they like, so naturally they would move on to the new game. Not having ADS makes it different enough that a lot of the players will stick with BF4 as well for that modern military itch.
 
If you understand what ADS is as a mechanic, you should understand why it shouldn't be in a game like Battlefront. It slows down fights. I think map movement and player agility is more important to a game like Battlefront then long range accuracy, which would be detrimental on maps with large amounts of open space, like Hoth and Tatooine.
 
impact said:
Well yea... no one other than bots shoots their gun standing still or stands still while you shoot them...
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What I meant to say is that the recoil control skill in CS is not *that* important you can stick to single shooting which will be very accurate for a long time before tackling on small sprays with controlled recoil. Kinda like how in Street fighter 4 combos are not *that* important, fundamentals will get you a long way.
 
Dubz said:
I would have been fine with Battlefield with Star Wars dudes. That being said, I'm getting heavy into CSGO, and I'm loving no ADS.
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You play on pc though I assume? csgo plays awful with a controller. I would think the majority of people wanting no ads plan to play this on PC right?
 
Fantastic. CS:GO style shooting is the best way to go.

The previous Battlefronts didn't have ironsights; there's no need to implement an overused mechanic just for the sake of being more like COD.
 
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