Back-In-Black
Banned
Not just that, Kanan said, "history lesson, the Jedi won the war with Mandalore." Are they trying to say the Mandalorian War is canon once again? Does this mean Revan is finally back in the canon?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Star Wars Rebels Season 3 |OT| Dark Forces Rising
- Thread starter The Flash
- Start date
- Status
Not just that, Kanan said, "history lesson, the Jedi won the war with Mandalore." Are they trying to say the Mandalorian War is canon once again? Does this mean Revan is finally back in the canon?
SamuelSupreme
Banned
One can hope....I must admit a Mandalorian Jedi sounds uber badass
BrokenFiction
Member
I never thought it wasn't canon? In Season 5 of the Clone Wars, they even depict it on Mandalorian art work:
http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/clone-wars/shades-of-reason-trivia-gallery
Back-In-Black
Banned
They are only listed as "battles" in the descriptions, they've never confirmed an actual war happened between the Jedi and Mandalore.
Sabine picks it up in that episode.
CloudyTuba
Member
That was a fantastic episode. They actually treated the characters like characters instead of placeholders or excuses for pew pew. I liked Kanan for the first time ever. He actually seemed like he knew what he was talking about and had a confidence I havent seen before. I liked Sabine for the first time ever, too. She seemed to have demonstrably real emotions and real skill, instead of the show trying to convince me by throwing armor on her and making snide comments like usual.
It's nice when characters in a story actually have clear motivations, actions, personalities, challenges and arcs. Most of the time these characters feel like cardboard cutouts. I'm pleasantly surprised.
Pablo was complimenting the episode for being more character driven than their usual plot driven episodes. Considering their plot feels pretty slow or empty most of the time, I think they should do more character episodes.
It's nice when characters in a story actually have clear motivations, actions, personalities, challenges and arcs. Most of the time these characters feel like cardboard cutouts. I'm pleasantly surprised.
Pablo was complimenting the episode for being more character driven than their usual plot driven episodes. Considering their plot feels pretty slow or empty most of the time, I think they should do more character episodes.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Sabine uses it when she got possessed, she picked it back up in the end.
Lifejumper
Member
Full Sabine suite by Kevin Kiner: https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...bd1adda9a8ba18/1483206728230/Sabine+Suite.mp3
Great episode. I thought this one might be a Filoni episode while watching it and sure enough he has the sole writing credit. There MUST have been a scene that was cut with Sabine and Bendu though and I would love to have seen it.
Filoni has mentioned KOTOR before, he's almost certainly played it so I wouldn't be surprised if he works it back in to canon over time.
Filoni has mentioned KOTOR before, he's almost certainly played it so I wouldn't be surprised if he works it back in to canon over time.
Septimus Prime
Member
I want to think that the Bendu never talked with Sabine. We just see him to see that he feels bad for her, but he doesn't reveal himself to anyone.
Yes! That part was amazing and actually gave me chills as Sabine began to bond with the dark saber. The explanation of wielding a light saber = controlling the flow of energy rather than swinging a blade around was so cool.
This was the best Rebels episode yet. Sabine has the potential to be one of the best SW characters if they continue to develop her arc. On a related side note, I was just at the Disney Hollywood Studios in Orlando, and to my surprise in one of the Star Wars memorabilia display cases was Sabine's full size helmet. I'll admit I got a little geeked out to see it in real life right in front of me. Of course seeing the actual Red 5 helmet with the yellow tinted eye shield was like nerd overload for me.
Edited to add: I didn't see any other Rebels set memorabilia on display, only Sabine's helmet. I thought that was pretty significant.
I've explored the Launch Bay at DHS probably less than at DL or SDL (due to all my visits being while I was in a wheelchair) but I know at DL, they had Sabine's helmet, Ezra's lightsaber, Ahsoka's (though I think that was a TCW one) and an Inquisitor lightsaber. Plus Ventress' old red saber. So it was a pretty neat array of real world props made from animation!.
Of course these are the people who thought, hey we should make a working Chopper droid and then film his antics every week so...
Such a fantastic track.
Kevin's been doing such a fantastic job with his serious Rebels pieces.
Caught up on the last two episodes. In agreement with everyone that Trials of the Darksaber was great! I miss the lightsaber fights in this series. What happened to the Inquisitors anyway? One of them was referred to as the "ninth brother," so I would have assumed there were more than the four we were shown. Did they all die between season 2 and 3?
I actually really liked Warhead, even as someone who's been critical of "filler" episodes in the past. The droid's vampiric tendencies were great, and I like the dynamic between Zeb, Chopper and AP-5.
I actually really liked Warhead, even as someone who's been critical of "filler" episodes in the past. The droid's vampiric tendencies were great, and I like the dynamic between Zeb, Chopper and AP-5.
From what I recall the implication was that they were getting phased out by the time A New Hope rolls around.
There is another one in Asokas novel, so if they get the chance to chuck in some stuff in the timeline between ep 3 and the earlier seasons of Rebels i'm sure they'll pop up eventually.
I always assumed that the first four had already died by the time we see the others in Rebels.
But, even if they're still alive and hunting Jedi somewhere, the introduction of Thrawn makes it look like that chapter is closed - I don't think they'll appear again.
BrokenFiction
Member
If you guys didn't know, Andi Gutierrez is doing an AMA on the /r/StarWarsRebels page.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsrebels/comments/5q4bo5/its_here_andi_gutierrez_amaa/
https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsrebels/comments/5q4bo5/its_here_andi_gutierrez_amaa/
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Someone should ask her what she thinks about the RFR guys thinking women in fandom is a fad they have to wait out and their opinion that Sabine is a Mary Sue.
I got a shout out from Andi on the AMA!
More interestingly for this thread, one of the LCL publicity folks said on twitter that at the moment, there are no other planned breaks for Rebels. We know of the two episodes airing mid-February, and that leaves five other episodes to follow.
More interestingly for this thread, one of the LCL publicity folks said on twitter that at the moment, there are no other planned breaks for Rebels. We know of the two episodes airing mid-February, and that leaves five other episodes to follow.
I feel like I'm going to regret asking, but what is RFR?
Rebel Force Radio. One of the most popular Star Wars podcasts, hosted by shitty people.
See here for examples, but be warned: it may ruin your day. https://rfrsgreatesthits.tumblr.com/
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
By this time next year "Mary Sue" will basically mean "main female cast member."
Forreal. Do people criticize John McClane for being unkillable?
It already does.
Oh
I've listened to a few episodes of the show since Rogue One, as someone on GAF (edit: I think it was actually Bobby) linked to a great episode about the music in the film. I've already tired of the normal episodes due to their schtick and over-editing, but had no idea it was this bad. I wish Oxygen was in a different feed tbh.
Doublesith
Member
Titles, descriptions, and air dates for the last 5 episodes of Season 3:
https://jedi-bibliothek.de/2017/02/beschreibungen-letzte-fuenf-folgen-star-wars-rebels-staffel-3/
3×18 Secret Cargo 3/04/2017
When a routine refueling mission goes wrong, the Ghost crew find themselves transporting an important rebel leader across the galaxy, pursued by Imperial warships.
3×19 Double Agent Droid 3/11/2017
Chopper and AP-5 team up to infiltrate an Imperial station to steal needed codes, but an Imperial specialist turns the droids against the crew to cause chaos.
3×20 Twin Suns 3/18/2017
Reacting to a vision of Maul, Ezra defies Hera and Kanan to travel to a remote planet in hopes of stopping the former Sith lord from carrying out his plans.
3×21 Zero Hour Part One 3/25/2017
In final preparations for their attack on Lothal, Phoenix Squadrons plans are disrupted when Grand Admiral Thrawn discovers their location.
3×22 Zero Hour- Part Two 3/25/2017
Trapped on Atollon with the rebel base under siege, Hera and Kanan fight to keep the squadron alive, as Ezra attempts to rally help from an unexpected source.
When a routine refueling mission goes wrong, the Ghost crew find themselves transporting an important rebel leader across the galaxy, pursued by Imperial warships.
3×19 Double Agent Droid 3/11/2017
Chopper and AP-5 team up to infiltrate an Imperial station to steal needed codes, but an Imperial specialist turns the droids against the crew to cause chaos.
3×20 Twin Suns 3/18/2017
Reacting to a vision of Maul, Ezra defies Hera and Kanan to travel to a remote planet in hopes of stopping the former Sith lord from carrying out his plans.
3×21 Zero Hour Part One 3/25/2017
In final preparations for their attack on Lothal, Phoenix Squadrons plans are disrupted when Grand Admiral Thrawn discovers their location.
3×22 Zero Hour- Part Two 3/25/2017
Trapped on Atollon with the rebel base under siege, Hera and Kanan fight to keep the squadron alive, as Ezra attempts to rally help from an unexpected source.
https://jedi-bibliothek.de/2017/02/beschreibungen-letzte-fuenf-folgen-star-wars-rebels-staffel-3/
Huh. Thought they'd save Obi Wan for the finale.
I'm will to wager on 3 things
Saw returns to fight, does something reckless and is ostracized to Jedha
Bendu joins in the fight
the mandalorians.
Lifejumper
Member
Its the third one I think. We saw them in the trailer.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Oh
I've listened to a few episodes of the show since Rogue One, as someone on GAF (edit: I think it was actually Bobby) linked to a great episode about the music in the film. I've already tired of the normal episodes due to their schtick and over-editing, but had no idea it was this bad. I wish Oxygen was in a different feed tbh.
Yeah, Oxygen is brilliant. The main show has been trash for a very long time.
Collins does not need McInerney to do what he does, and I hope he takes that show (or a version of it) somewhere else with the quickness. As it is I basically just skip through half of oxygen because about half of it features that scruffy puking of McInerney's adding nothing to the show.
I like the idea of just Ezra and Maul meeting Obi-Wan while everyone else doesn't (even if they know he's out there now)
Would be interesting if they pull a Legends and get Obi-Wan out of retirement for one last adventure. I don't think they'd go there, but it certainly would be interesting to see how they handle it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I think the suggestion that
makes the most sense.
It's Saw that helps out in the last episode
Razgriz-Specter
Member
New episode today.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Good episode but kinda disappointed.
GeorgioCostanzaX
Member
Honestly wish this Mary Sue meme would go away as the father of a young daughter: it's the internet equivalent of "you can't do that you're a girl."
People endlessly parroting 'Mary Sue' reminds me of the early Gamergate days on Gaf. That was considered a reasonable thing to get behind for way too long as well, until finally people started understanding what ridiculous, nonsensical and sexist bullshit all of that was.
Hopefully those old nerds who still just see these things as white boy power fantasies will get wise to what they're saying sooner rather than later. 'Mary Sue' is a sexist term, it makes no sense to plaster it on any fictional woman that dares to be capable (you never hear those criticisms about Luke, who blew up the Death Star his first time in space, one day after meeting a space wizard explaining the concept of the force) or Anakin (a baby winning a podrace - which no human has ever done - and building incredibly complex robots with no education or money, living as a slave). Or Indiana Jones. Or Iron Man. Or Batman. Or whoever you can think of in any light blockbuster story.
It's nasty nonsense and the sooner people retire the term the better. It spawned from the same neckbeard corner of the internet that gave birth to Gamergate, SJW, cucks, pepe, snowflakes, all that nonsense. A bunch of losers who only feel powerful behind the safety of a screen.
Sorry for getting a bit worked up about this but this kind of stuff gets very tiring for me. I'm a big nerd and I love having silly in-depth discussions about silly nerdy stuff, but man, some people on the internet really need to get out and start talking to some real people more.
GeorgioCostanzaX
Member
TRUTH!
MisterGrey3000
Member
I don't know, I don't think "Mary Sue" as a term needs to be retired (it's probably not possible at this point anyways, it's kind of ingrained in fandom/nerd culture now).
It can be a useful term of critique, especially in the case of fan fiction where infallible self-insert/creator's pet "original™"(donotsteal) characters run rampant.
It's the kind of the thing that can create better future (mainstream or indie) storytellers if said storytellers are actually seeking improvement and want people to actually sit down and read their stories.
Dumb insecure nerd boys warping it into "female character in fiction who is capable and competent enough to keep the story moving forward" is a very recent and unfortunate sexist phenomenon that specifically deserves to be derided at every turn.
It can be a useful term of critique, especially in the case of fan fiction where infallible self-insert/creator's pet "original™"(donotsteal) characters run rampant.
It's the kind of the thing that can create better future (mainstream or indie) storytellers if said storytellers are actually seeking improvement and want people to actually sit down and read their stories.
Dumb insecure nerd boys warping it into "female character in fiction who is capable and competent enough to keep the story moving forward" is a very recent and unfortunate sexist phenomenon that specifically deserves to be derided at every turn.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
...well after this episode I'm not so sure this is right anymore.
I don't know about this. I grew up in a time were all kids were still nonchalantly using 'gay' or 'retarded' (sorry for using that term, but I'm only using it as an example) as insults without questioning it. Not just kids either of course, you'd see it everywhere online. I feel like that has definitely lessened. And yes, Mary Sue is used often, but as much as it is ingrained in certain segments of nerd culture, the term is also increasingly reviled in other segments of nerd culture.
At this point, it's taken over by people using it as an 'argument' against any female lead so much that it has lost all meaning in my eyes. Yes, I agree that there are stories where the lead character (the gender doesn't matter) is little more than a unbelievably powerful person who can do no wrong and you should be able to discuss that, but I think using the term 'Mary Sue' is very lacking for that. It's very much a female name, and given current trends that gives it a very nasty sexist subtext. The term 'Barry Sue' exists, but that's used far less and it was only created in the first place as a reaction to the sexist misuse of the 'Mary Sue' term. And it still recalls how the original term was obviously female, which carries a meaning that's just way too uncomfortable.
At this point, I just don't think it works as an argument anymore, even if it's used by sensible, well-intentioned people. SJW also started out as a more jokey, self-deprecating term until it was co-opted by jackasses and is now almost exclusively used by idiots.
Like I said, I think the comparison to Gamergate is apt. For way too long people tried using it as a 'legitimate' criticism about 'fairness in game journalism' before people finally realized what bullshit that was.
I think everyone would be better off avoiding the term altogether. Even if it had any value before (and I heavily doubt that), it carries an unmistakable sexist meaning at this point. There are better ways to discuss badly developed main characters without having to go to that well.
Septimus Prime
Member
Sounds like you got force woke.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Doesn't Gary Stu as phrase still exist. For example Kirito from SAO is a text book definition of that archetype as a numerous other poorly thought out harem insert MC. This isn't some new phrase it's decades old (The fact some of you haven't come across any of it's variants until TFA is pretty weird). I don't think simply because sexists have co-opted it means the phrase should be retired same as when homophobes co-opt the word gay.
bishopcruz
Member
Sabine is not a Mary Sue
Jyn Erso was not a Mary Sue
Hera is not a Mary Sue
Ahsoka was not a Mary sue.
Rey... totally was. Though nowhere near as much as say Alice from the Resident Evil movies, Tom Paris from Star Trek Voyager, or if we're looking at other Star Wars stuff, Starkiller from the Force Unleashed games is probably the most blatant example..
I don't get where the idea that Mary Sue is just a term used to denigrate strong female characters comes from. It's a term that has been in use for decades, longer than I've been alive, and I'm not a young man. I guess the only difference is that nowadays we have more long running series that allow for new characters to come in and be examples of the trope.
Jyn Erso was not a Mary Sue
Hera is not a Mary Sue
Ahsoka was not a Mary sue.
Rey... totally was. Though nowhere near as much as say Alice from the Resident Evil movies, Tom Paris from Star Trek Voyager, or if we're looking at other Star Wars stuff, Starkiller from the Force Unleashed games is probably the most blatant example..
I don't get where the idea that Mary Sue is just a term used to denigrate strong female characters comes from. It's a term that has been in use for decades, longer than I've been alive, and I'm not a young man. I guess the only difference is that nowadays we have more long running series that allow for new characters to come in and be examples of the trope.
Hellwarden
Member
Star Wars Rebels Legacy of Mandalore
The first half of this episode was better than the second half. The first half had us finally meeting Sabine's family, and they were all pretty surprisingly grounded and believable. Sabine's mother selling out the Jedi's seemed like a pretty logical choice from a business stand point. I like how Sabine's brother bluntly told her she shouldn't have come back. It's the second half where we run into some problems.
The first half of the closing fight in this episode is confusing as hell and just bad. It's confusing shot, and completely lacking in impact. Honestly it's kind of funny when the combatants take to the sky to fight when they're five feet from each other. Even Stormtroopers would look at this, and think "Damn, why don't you just shoot them?"
Thankfully, the Sabine vs Gar fight was much more enjoyable. Sabine used a lot of her gadgets to get the best of Gar, and pretty soundly trounced him at the end. The part where she decided not to kill him was fine, but why would you turn your back on him? She's knows Gar is slime, why take a chance with him? The whole moment is supposed to redeem Sabine's mother, but it's too late in the episode for that. Everyone is just standing around smiling at the end, and it's weird. People are weirdly forgiving in this show.
So Sabine splits from the group, which I have two minds about. One, if this show straight up has a Mandalorian civil war off-screen, then fuck this show. That's not acceptable in any way to have Sabine's journey be off-screened after setting it up for these two good episodes. Second, I do kind of like how Sabine would decide to leave for the sake of her first family. (Kinda weird the rest of the gang isn't here to see her off tho...) It's a sign of her growth in a series that seems to struggle with character development.
The first half of this episode was better than the second half. The first half had us finally meeting Sabine's family, and they were all pretty surprisingly grounded and believable. Sabine's mother selling out the Jedi's seemed like a pretty logical choice from a business stand point. I like how Sabine's brother bluntly told her she shouldn't have come back. It's the second half where we run into some problems.
So you're stepping into a potential fight in a closed off area with four dudes Gar?
The first half of the closing fight in this episode is confusing as hell and just bad. It's confusing shot, and completely lacking in impact. Honestly it's kind of funny when the combatants take to the sky to fight when they're five feet from each other. Even Stormtroopers would look at this, and think "Damn, why don't you just shoot them?"
How did this guy get behind her?
Thankfully, the Sabine vs Gar fight was much more enjoyable. Sabine used a lot of her gadgets to get the best of Gar, and pretty soundly trounced him at the end. The part where she decided not to kill him was fine, but why would you turn your back on him? She's knows Gar is slime, why take a chance with him? The whole moment is supposed to redeem Sabine's mother, but it's too late in the episode for that. Everyone is just standing around smiling at the end, and it's weird. People are weirdly forgiving in this show.
We're coming back right? Right!?
So Sabine splits from the group, which I have two minds about. One, if this show straight up has a Mandalorian civil war off-screen, then fuck this show. That's not acceptable in any way to have Sabine's journey be off-screened after setting it up for these two good episodes. Second, I do kind of like how Sabine would decide to leave for the sake of her first family. (Kinda weird the rest of the gang isn't here to see her off tho...) It's a sign of her growth in a series that seems to struggle with character development.
- Status