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[Emitan]

How do you skip dialogue?

Spacebar

 

[Etheus]

Spacebar

Thanks <3

 

[Iadien]

Judge from yourself. Every criticism said so far has been highly opinionated. A lot of people will love it, some wont.

Opinion!

 

[Jarmel]

You're dead to me

The problem I have with space combat is it's half-assed even as a minigame. Limited free roam space exploration would have done wonders for the game.

Well, that doesn't sound reassuring. Let's say that I'm burned out on WOW, is it worth it to download the 30+gig for something that doesn't sound good from the start?

My opinion is a cautious no. Depends on what you're burned out on. Nothing so far in the storyline for me has been impressive in the least.

How do you skip dialogue?

Spacebar. It gets very old very fast for every NPC to ask you to fetch something because they're too lazy or scared to do it themselves. You're supposed to be a hero but in actuality you're a glorified fetch boy.

 

[LowParry]

The problem I have with space combat is it's half-assed even as a minigame. Limited free roam space exploration would have done wonders for the game.

This is true. Though the idea of reliving my glory days of Star Fox marathons is what I see about the space combat that I'll probably most enjoy. And I know others are going to straight up hate. Don't blame them either.

 

[SUPARSTARX]

The space combat is alright. It's simple to control but it's pretty fun and gorgeous to look at as well.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

This is where a lot of my interest will hang I don't want another modern WoW where the hardest part of the game, pre-raiding, is filling in your account information.

I keep wiping during the credit card information phase.

 

[CAW]

The biggest gripe I have so far are the quests where you have to loot an item or open a chest or collect/click something (which then disappears) that's a: limited in numbers and b: has a ridiculously long re-spawn timer.

I don't know why any developer would purposely put these kind of quests into an MMO. And, on top of all that, these are in starting areas! Oh dear lord, good luck finishing these at launch.

 

[Cyrillus]

It feels very much like a MMO with a KOTOR skin.

Even then that's bullshit as alot of the stuff is going to be redundant for alts. I almost don't wait to play a different Republic class for launch because 80% of the stuff is going to be the same. The class exclusive stuff is pretty minute compared to the rest of the quests.

So you don't like it because it's an MMO? That's going to be a tough hurdle for an MMO to overcome.

I agree I really didn't care either which is the problem. I was pretty apathetic to that scene and nothing has even come close to that.

So you were apathetic about main story elements of KOTOR, and you expected this to be different in its impact? What?

Exactly. It doesn't do enough to separate it from other MMOs. I'm sure if people go in expecting a reskinned WoW with a better storyline, they'll get it. However I'm seeing nothing else.

If you just boil the entire game down to "re-skinned WoW," then no MMO is going to satisfy you. Obviously it's going to emulate some things from WoW, considering it is the most successful MMO to date. I just can't understand why after all this you're still following the thread?

EDIT:

Sure, TOR takes all the good things but it then goes on to not have the polish of everything else that's been released so far.

It's a fucking beta!

 

[Jarmel]

So you don't like it because it's an MMO? That's going to be a tough hurdle for an MMO to overcome.

So you were apathetic about main story elements of KOTOR, and you expected this to be different in its impact? What?

Pretty much. You can feel where they had to toned down certain storylines or quests that would have played out much more dramatically in a single player.

Actually I loved alot of the KOTOR storyline like exploring Dantooine and the other planets along with the Revan twist. KOTOR had a sense of exploration when the game came out and TOR has lost that a bit. For example on Dantooine you stumble on a murder case and you try to solve it as a Jedi. There is absolutely nothing like that in TOR. All there is are mobs and stuff for you to scan and pick up.

If you just boil the entire game down to "re-skinned WoW," then no MMO is going to satisfy you. Obviously it's going to emulate some things from WoW, considering it is the most successful MMO to date. I just can't understand why after all this you're still following the thread?

It is fun to a certain extent as I never heavily played MMOs before but it's not even close to a gaming revolution that is going to grab up some unused casual market. I sorta knew this going in but it's another thing to experience it after dozens of hours.

It's a fucking beta!

With less than 3 months to launch and there are broken quests, textures not loading, server lag, holograms not working, and characters and NPCs getting stuck or falling through the floor. And those are the things that NEED to be fixed and not the stuff that should be.

 

[Morn]

Oh dear lord, good luck finishing these at launch.

Don't worry, that's why zones are instanced!

 

[AzureNightmare]

Pretty much. You can feel where they had to toned down certain storylines or quests that would have played out much more dramatically in a single player.

Actually I loved alot of the KOTOR storyline like exploring Dantooine and the other planets along with the Revan twist. KOTOR had a sense of exploration when the game came out and TOR has lost that a bit. For example on Dantooine you stumble on a murder case and you try to solve it as a Jedi. There is absolutely nothing like that in TOR. All there is are mobs and stuff for you to scan and pick up.



It is fun to a certain extent as I never heavily played MMOs before but it's not even close to a gaming revolution that is going to grab up some unused casual market. I sorta knew this going in but it's another thing to experience it after dozens of hours.




With less than 3 months to launch and there are broken quests, textures not loading, server lag, holograms not working, and characters and NPCs getting stuck or falling through the floor. And those are the things that NEED to be fixed and not the stuff that should be.

Jarmel, I'm gonna put this to you in the shortest and most succinct way I can. Quit your goddamn bitching, its giving me a headache!

 

[Morn]

Jarmel, I'm gonna put this to you in the shortest and most succinct way I can. Quit your goddamn bitching, its giving me a headache!

Why is it whenever someone says anything negative about the game they get jumped on?

 

[Jarmel]

Why is it whenever someone says anything negative about the game they get jumped on?

Hype investment.

My main problem with it is that it rides on the Star Wars IP for the most part. So far for me, it's just been an okay game.

 

[Cyrillus]

Pretty much. You can feel where they had to toned down certain storylines or quests that would have played out much more dramatically in a single player.

Again, if your problem is that this game is not single player, I don't know what to tell you.

It is fun to a certain extent as I never heavily played MMOs before but it's not even close to a gaming revolution that is going to grab up some unused casual market. I sorta knew this going in but it's another thing to experience it after dozens of hours.

I don't think many of the people here are expecting it to be a gaming revolution, just an MMO that is based on an IP they enjoy.

With less than 3 months to launch and there are broken quests, textures not loading, server lag, holograms not working, and characters and NPCs getting stuck or falling through the floor. And those are the things that NEED to be fixed and not the stuff that should be.

Every MMO beta I've ever participated in (WoW, Warhammer, Rift) has had these issues, and a lot of them continued into release. It is the nature of the genre. I'm not saying this excuses TOR, but it hardly makes them unique in this aspect.

Why is it whenever someone says anything negative about the game they get jumped on?

Even when their "anything negative" is simply "I am disappointed with this MMO because it is an MMO"? I mean really, blame it on "hype investment" all you want, but his critiques are similar to someone saying the new Deus Ex is bad because it's an FPS.

 

[eastmen]

Why is it whenever someone says anything negative about the game they get jumped on?

most of his arguements are weak

It is fun to a certain extent as I never heavily played MMOs before but it's not even close to a gaming revolution that is going to grab up some unused casual market. I sorta knew this going in but it's another thing to experience it after dozens of hours.

Aside from the first 3 all mmo's have taken things from others. WOW which exploded the market heavly copied from EQ .

The thing is gamers don't want drastic change , they want slow change thats predictable.

THe game advances the genre in some areas and I don't really see any regression . Causuals will come in for the story and the SW ip. People will enjoy their time and bioware will make money. Which is the goal

With less than 3 months to launch and there are broken quests, textures not loading, server lag, holograms not working, and characters and NPCs getting stuck or falling through the floor. And those are the things that NEED to be fixed and not the stuff that should be.

Yawn . First off there may be 3 months till launch but what build are you playing , when was it compiled ? How do you know alot of these problems aren't fixed or have teams working on it ?

All mmorpgs have problems at launch and aren't a 100% complete. The first weeks of wow if you tried to loot something you'd freeze for hours before you looted the item. Didn't stop a record 13 million or so people from buying and playing wow over the years.


If the things you picked to talk about are the worse of the problems then we are sitting pretty with this game. Past games like AOC there was no content past level 20 , some games like War hammer had whole classes ripped out before release.

 

[AzureNightmare]

Hype investment.

My main problem with it is that it rides on the Star Wars IP for the most part. So far for me, it's just been an okay game.

We already understand that you don't like this game. Believe me we do. So for the love of God, please quit whining and crying about it.

 

[Jarmel]

So I should hold this game to a lower standard because it's a MMO? The storyline hasn't impressed me yet and the content isn't dynamic. Some of the quests are good but there are far too few of them. However I'm supposed to give the game a pass because it's a MMO. Gotcha. Bioware has been touting storyline has a big staple of the game and nothing I've seen has shown that to be a good thing so far. VA does not make a story.

I don't hate it for the inherent fact that it is a MMO, I dislike it for the fact that they don't try to do more with it. On Taris I probably did over 30 quests and of those 30, maybe 5 to 10 had lightside/darkside choices of which none had an impact or real consequence. Then of those 30, over 20 of those had to be either fetch quests, scan quests, or kill quests.

My build is from July but they've been constantly releasing patches for it. What these patches do, I have no clue as I saw more bugs after one of them. It's very possible they could have everything patched for launch but the only indication I can go is what I'm currently experiencing, everything else would be speculation.

We already understand that you don't like this game. Believe me we do. So for the love of God, please quit whining and crying about it.

No.

 

[Dresden]

We already understand that you don't like this game. Believe me we do. So for the love of God, please quit whining and crying about it.

dealwithit

 

[eastmen]

So I should hold this game to a lower standard because it's a MMO? The storyline hasn't impressed me yet and the content isn't dynamic. Some of the quests are good but there are far too few of them. However I'm supposed to give the game a pass because it's a MMO. Gotcha. Bioware has been touting storyline has a big staple of the game and nothing I've seen has shown that to be a good thing so far. VA does not make a story.

Perhaps you should compare it to other games in its Genre . Your comparing a massive multiplayer game to 1) A major hollywood motion picture and 2) A large budget single player game

How does the storyline compare to age of conan , city of heroes , wow , star trek online and others ?

You can't have a Taris event in a game with millions of others playing it , it makes no sense .

I don't hate it for the inherent fact that it is a MMO, I dislike it for the fact that they don't try to do more with it. On Taris I probably did over 30 quests and of those 30, maybe 5 to 10 had lightside/darkside choices of which none had an impact or real consequence. Then of those 30, over 20 of those had to be either fetch quests, scan quests, or kill quests.

What other types of quests are there ? I wouldn't mind you listing the types of quests and those included and omited from this game .

My build is from July but they've been constantly releasing patches for it. What these patches do, I have no clue as I saw more bugs after one of them.

o.

My point is simple . If missing textures and broken quests are the biggest problems with the game then we are fine. Those can be fixed quickly . Have you reported the problems ?

Single player games have these faults too. Google KOTOR 2

 

[BattleMonkey]

It is a mmo, and you keep seeming to want to ignore that as you want a SP game and not this. TOR is going to dissapoint those who go into this not realizing its a mmo....

KOTOR 3 was never going to happen, Lucasarts wanted a new SW mmo and went to Biowate to make it. So they made TOR. Bioware has no say in this, they couldn't make KOTOR 3 if they wanted to as its not their property. TOR is as close as we would probably get to more KOTOR. Its still a mmo though and if you can't accept that.... well might as well not bother. Its also a bioware product which as we have seen in recent years is much different from what we got in the past, but many look at KOTOR with rose tinted goggle. KOTOR and especially part two had very little to no exploration, lots of linear design, not open world, and the quests were all to go from point A to B and kill shit there. Mmo quests are really no different other than length and frequency, as its a product to keep people playing for many hours and paying a sub fee.

 

[Jira]

I think that killing/collecting/escorting is pretty inherent to the RPG genre as a whole, I don't think that there's ever going to be a way around this until mobs stop being a part of the quest design which is likely to only happen in the MMO genre if it happens at all. We've been killing and collecting shit in gaming for how many decades now? I can't think of any other way to handle it besides players taking the place of mobs, but that wouldn't exactly be all that fun for the people playing as mobs now would it?

 

[eastmen]

I think that killing/collecting/escorting is pretty inherent to the RPG genre as a whole, I don't think that there's ever going to be a way around this until mobs stop being a part of the quest design which is likely to only happen in the MMO genre if it happens at all. We've been killing and collecting shit in gaming for how many decades now? I can't think of any other way to handle it besides players taking the place of mobs, but that wouldn't exactly be all that fun for the people playing as mobs now would it?

To me it doesn't make sense .


What quests in the original KOTOR aren't Kill /fetch / Escort quests ?


Its like saying oh in an FPS you just go around and kill people and either kill everyone or get from point at to point B.

Or a racing game is just a game from point A to B and thats it your done.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Making every quest an instance would allow for more creativity, but people don't want that in a mmo. You get these big open world mob quests which get boring.... mmo design is flawed as it is with theme park design. UO really is what a mmo should be like, but it doesn't have mass customer appeal.

 

[Cyrillus]

To me it doesn't make sense .


What quests in the original KOTOR aren't Kill /fetch / Escort quests ?


Its like saying oh in an FPS you just go around and kill people and either kill everyone or get from point at to point B.

Or a racing game is just a game from point A to B and thats it your done.

Racing games are the worst. It's like Point A to point B, and then just doing that 3-5 more times! You're literally just going in circles!

 

[eastmen]

Making every quest an instance would allow for more creativity, but people don't want that in a mmo. You get these big open world mob quests which get boring.... mmo design is flawed as it is with theme park design. UO really is what a mmo should be like, but it doesn't have mass customer appeal.

Ultima online and lineage 1 are the best mmorpgs ever created. But can you imagine people trying to play it today. They are to dificult for the average WOW player. You can do whatever you want in UO providing you get the skill you need.

THere is no direction , there really isn't anything pushing you to do the next thing. You can sit in a tavern and get drunk and talk to friends or you can go and wander around and find spawns of rare guys or dungeons .


Todays wow player wouldn't be able to handle that

 

[Jira]

Making every quest an instance would allow for more creativity, but people don't want that in a mmo. You get these big open world mob quests which get boring.... mmo design is flawed as it is with theme park design. UO really is what a mmo should be like, but it doesn't have mass customer appeal.

http://www.eveonline.com/

 

[CzarTim]

Morn and Jarmel have long since past the line between being negative and trolling. They continue to post in this thread for no other reason than to derail it and start up flame wars. It's not adding to the discussion in anyway.

 

[BattleMonkey]

http://www.eveonline.com/

At 300k players EVE is not an example of mass market appeal. Its more of what UO was like, but its highly niche product.

 

[Kintaro]

<peeks in the thread for a bit...>

<...quickly ducks back out while waiting for his beta invite>

 

[MGHA]

Level 12 as a bounty hunter. Will definitely buy at launch. game is everything I could expect, Still haven't got a helmet or seen a place to buy one. Space combat is great for getting XP and credits quickly. Dialogue is pretty much mass effect. The direction of photography could be better in some places, but not a big issue.

I have never played WoW, so I cant say how much is copied, but I shit you not. I found my self hitting F5 to save frequently. Forgetting the fact this is an MMO.

 

[Jarmel]

Perhaps you should compare it to other games in its Genre . Your comparing a massive multiplayer game to 1) A major hollywood motion picture and 2) A large budget single player game

How does the storyline compare to age of conan , city of heroes , wow , star trek online and others ?

You can't have a Taris event in a game with millions of others playing it , it makes no sense.

Again I'm aware that you can't pull a Taris wide event because of the nature of it being a MMO however this affects some of the quest storylines. They don't seem to play out as naturally as they would in a single player and you can easily tell.

What other types of quests are there ? I wouldn't mind you listing the types of quests and those included and omited from this game .

The main one I can think of is on Tython actually where there are two Jedi Masters arguing about their apprentices and they want you to find out if their apprentices are having a romance. You can either report the apprentices in or keep quiet for a price. Now that you mention it, I can't really think of any on Taris. The only one I can think of on Taris is that you have to get infected by a Rakghoul and come back to test an antidote.

Also very few of the sidemissions have a lightside/darkside aspect to them. There are a few but not as many as I had hoped.

One thing I think that would have helped is the possibility of your companion leaving which it seems they initially had it in. That would have been great as there would have been a real sense of consequence for your actions in the game.

My point is simple . If missing textures and broken quests are the biggest problems with the game then we are fine. Those can be fixed quickly . Have you reported the problems ?

Single player games have these faults too. Google KOTOR 2

Yes I have reported them and I'm sure some or most of them will be fixed but it takes time. Who knows? The developers could be 5 builds ahead of us.

 

[Last Hearth]

I think with any game after a while the loudest voices you hear are going to be the negative ones, because people who like the game are only going to say they like it for so many times before they get tired of saying it, but people who want to knock a game seem to never get tired of being negative. This is why games like MGS4 and ME2 are praised when they come out but now if you want to start a discussion about those game all your hear are from the bashers, and it creates this illusion that everybody hated those games.

The same is going on here is claims about how after some initial positivity now the testing forums are getting negative. It's getting negative because the negative people are much more persistent in declaring their negativity. Just like this thread.

I played this game for 2 days so far and everyone I've played with online loves the game, I haven't even encounter a single person who isn't having a blast. Yes, there are complaints about some bugged quests (quest item not respawning fast enough), lag, etc. The game is a lot of fun, the class quests and the group quests are well designed and much more engaging that standard MMO quests.

 

[Jira]

At 300k players EVE is not an example of mass market appeal. Its more of what UO was like, but its highly niche product.

I was merely pointing out that EVE exists since he's looking for something like UO.

 

[eastmen]

Again I'm aware that you can't pull a Taris wide event because of the nature of it being a MMO however this affects some of the quest storylines. They don't seem to play out as naturally as they would in a single player and you can easily tell.

Yes but once again this isn't a single player game , there are going to be limitations .

You don't see me saying Kotor is flawed cause your friends can't play as the other characters in the group. Your complaining about the Genre of the game not the game itself

The main one I can think of is on Tython actually where there are two Jedi Masters arguing about their apprentices and they want you to find out if their apprentices are having a romance. You can either report the apprentices in or keep quiet for a price. Now that you mention it, I can't really think of any on Taris. The only one I can think of on Taris is that you have to get infected by a Rakghoul and come back to test an antidote.

I'm asking you a simple question. What are the diffrent types of quests and which of those do SW TOR lack ?


I've been playing RPGs and MMORPGs my whole life and its quite easy to see that all the quests can be boiled down to their base and you will see that they are very repeative in RPGs as well as MMORPGS.

Also very few of the sidemissions have a lightside/darkside aspect to them. There are a few but not as many as I had hoped.

What level are you ? I think you will find that it plays more of a part as you become established with in the game.

One thing I think that would have helped is the possibility of your companion leaving which it seems they initially had it in. That would have been great as there would have been a real sense of consequence for your actions in the game.

How far have you gotten in the game , how do you know this isn't possible.

Yes I have reported them and I'm sure some or most of them will be fixed but it takes time. Who knows? The developers could be 5 builds ahead of us.

All games have bugs , RPGs and MMORPGS . the benfit of a mmorpg is its constantly being updated. Single palyer games recieve few updates.



I can understand if you dislike the game and I can understand some things aren't what you expected. But you yourself say that you have a limited experiance with MMORPGs.

These are diffrent than RPGs and it souns like you want an RPG and I'm sorry to say this isn't one of them.

I've gotten to play the game alot and I'm lucky enough to have gotten on my gf's beta and I can say so far its a very well put together mmorpg and i'm having a lot of fun with it. Yes its an EQ clone (not a wow clone as that is a EQ clone to begin with ) but that isn't a bad part. A game with alot of story and yes this game has alot of story compared to other mmorpgs , can not be as free as a UO . A mmo will never have the in depth story lines with world changing situations that a single player will have.

Compared to other MMORPGS this game takes the story telling that EQ 2 tried and AOC advanced to a whole new level and it does have an extremely indepth story for a mmorpg.

Perhaps compared to RPGs its lacking in the story department. But you don't compare a racer to a rpg for story or a sports game to an fps for level design.

 

[eastmen]

I was merely pointing out that EVE exists since he's looking for something like UO.

Meh , EVE is impossible to play and advance far in if your by yourself. UO you could make it very far and see everything in the game with just a few people

 

[gatti-man]

Dp

 

[gatti-man]

Sure, TOR takes all the good things but it then goes on to not have the polish of everything else that's been released so far.

It's a bunch of good ideas not completely realized and implemented in the best way.

Dude your post conflicts with itself. Doesn't have the polish of EVERYTHING released thus far? By that im sure you mean wow and this game is more polished than wow in some areas. For example actually having memorable low lvl plots and characters.

I can tell you without a doubt im having more fun with this game low lvl than I did with vanilla or when I resubbed during wotlk by a substantial amount. There has been zero grind to lvl 11. I've just done every heroic and flashpoint.

I have only one real gripe and that's with the textures. The art Imo is
great but wtf at the low res, its like its a console port sometimes.

It feels very much like a MMO with a KOTOR skin. Nothing so far has had the impact of Taris burning in KOTOR 1(currently on Nar Sha). Storywise for me so far it's been an absolute bust but I know I'm not that far into the Jedi Knight class story.

Try sith. Im having a blast. Just murder and betray everyone lol.

Edit: Jarmel-so are you saying you are no longer buying tor? Or is this constructive criticisms you are just laying out and you still enjoy playing.

 

[Einbroch]

I'm kinda getting fed up with the whole "it's an MMO, of course there are going to be limitations" excuse. This is not a slam on ToR, but rather for MMOs as a whole.

It's fucking 2011. Developers are doing things in other genres that we couldn't even imagine 10 years ago. Why should the MMO genre not evolve? There are thousands of brilliant developers out there, and you're telling me they can't come up with something? WoW basically invented instances and battlegrounds, something that all new MMOs have. Why can't people change the world? Why can't people have individualized storylines in an ever-changing universe?

It's a bunch of lame excuses and frankly it's disappointing. I'm not even a developer and I have ideas on how the MMO genre can evolve, and they're completely and utterly feasible. It's ridiculous.

 

[gatti-man]

I'm kinda getting fed up with the whole "it's an MMO, of course there are going to be limitations" excuse. This is not a slam on ToR, but rather for MMOs as a whole.

It's fucking 2011. Developers are doing things in other genres that we couldn't even imagine 10 years ago. Why should the MMO genre not evolve? There are thousands of brilliant developers out there, and you're telling me they can't come up with something? WoW basically invented instances and battlegrounds, something that all new MMOs have. Why can't people change the world? Why can't people have individualized storylines in an ever-changing universe?

It's a bunch of lame excuses and frankly it's disappointing. I'm not even a developer and I have ideas on how the MMO genre can evolve, and they're completely and utterly feasible. It's ridiculous.

Tor does have this. Your choices shape future encounters and actions of others just like kotor games. But I hear you on why can't we have EVE style control of our mmo universe in more games.

 

[Einbroch]

Tor does have this. Your choices shape future encounters and actions of others just like kotor games. But I hear you on why can't we have EVE style control of our mmo universe in more games.

There was this game a while back where the players ran EVERYTHING. Towns didn't exist. Outposts did, but all the "towns" in game were totally and completely run by guilds. Shadow-something? Can't remember anymore. You started in a swamp. That game was way ahead of it's time. It had so many great ideas...shame the execution fell short.

Edit: SHADOWBANE! That's it.

 

[eastmen]

I'm kinda getting fed up with the whole "it's an MMO, of course there are going to be limitations" excuse. This is not a slam on ToR, but rather for MMOs as a whole.

It's fucking 2011. Developers are doing things in other genres that we couldn't even imagine 10 years ago. Why should the MMO genre not evolve? There are thousands of brilliant developers out there, and you're telling me they can't come up with something? WoW basically invented instances and battlegrounds, something that all new MMOs have. Why can't people change the world? Why can't people have individualized storylines in an ever-changing universe?

It's a bunch of lame excuses and frankly it's disappointing. I'm not even a developer and I have ideas on how the MMO genre can evolve, and they're completely and utterly feasible. It's ridiculous.

WOW didn't invent instances . Wow didn't invent battlegrounds .


Wow didn't invent anything they simply refined things.


I also don't see what other genres are doing that we couldn't imagine 10 years ago. Any examples ?

 

[Kintaro]

I'm kinda getting fed up with the whole "it's an MMO, of course there are going to be limitations" excuse. This is not a slam on ToR, but rather for MMOs as a whole.

It's fucking 2011. Developers are doing things in other genres that we couldn't even imagine 10 years ago. Why should the MMO genre not evolve? There are thousands of brilliant developers out there, and you're telling me they can't come up with something? WoW basically invented instances and battlegrounds, something that all new MMOs have. Why can't people change the world? Why can't people have individualized storylines in an ever-changing universe?

It's a bunch of lame excuses and frankly it's disappointing. I'm not even a developer and I have ideas on how the MMO genre can evolve, and they're completely and utterly feasible. It's ridiculous.

Well, I'm right you here. However, there is a thing called reality and money. All of the greatest ideas and execution in the world and the game would still fail and sink a developer AND a publisher in one swoop.

Also, lol at the 10 years ago line. Especially if you're a PC player. How quickly we forget that Ultima Online was in 1997. Quake III Arena/Unreal Tournament was in 1999. Deus Ex in 2000. So on and so forth. Everything is just iterating.

 

[Einbroch]

WOW didn't invent instances . Wow didn't invent battlegrounds .


Wow didn't invent anything they simply refined things.


I also don't see what other genres are doing that we couldn't imagine 10 years ago. Any examples ?

WoW perfected them and evolved the idea. Pre-2004 we had EverQuest and UO, right? I don't recall instances in either. DAoC had them...in an expansion pack...in 2004. Battlegrounds? I don't think those existed before WoW. Pretty sure WoW invented two-faction gameplay in an MMO as well. Did these ideas exist? Yes. Were they in an MMO? No. I know it's cool to bash on WoW, but in 2004 it was pretty extraordinary. Still is, to be honest.

In regards to what we can do in games today, I don't need to list examples. If you honestly can say that in 2001 you were like "Yep, in 10 years I can play a game, on my home console, where it's single player but I can infiltrate another player's game from 2000 miles away and duel him before going back to my single player game (Demon's Souls)" then you're one special person.

Kintaro, I'm not a PC gamer at all. My PC is an internet machine. Netflix, websites, and MMOs.

 

[Hasemo]

Uh, reading your opinions guys, I'm getting a bit scared that the game will bore me during the first few hours.
Not that I'm going to get into the beta anytime soon.

 

[Kintaro]

In regards to what we can do in games today, I don't need to list examples. If you honestly can say that in 2001 you were like "Yep, in 10 years I can play a game, on my home console, where it's single player but I can infiltrate another player's game from 2000 miles away and duel him before going back to my single player game (Demon's Souls)" then you're one special person.

Um, have you ever played a MUD?

 

[Einbroch]

Um, have you ever played a MUD?

Graphical MUDs, yes.

I'm not a PC gamer. At all. Like, the only non-MMO games I've played on the PC EVER have been The Elder Scrolls games. Two non-MMOs, seven MMOs.

My "ten year" comment was simply stating that developers and publishers have had almost TEN YEARS to think of new ideas for MMOs and pull them off successfully. You don't even have to drastically change the formula! Guild towns. Player run economies. Evolving world based upon what quests you turn in. World PVP that works and is rewarding. These ideas aren't that radical, yet why haven't they been developed in recent years? Every game that gets churned out is just looking at the WoW formula and tweaking one ingredient or adding one "feature".

Whatever, rant over. It's 4AM and my medicine is finally kicking in. Been in bed for the last few days chugging painkillers, so if these posts don't make sense, you know why.

Again, I'm not bashing ToR. I'm criticizing the MMO developers of today.

 

[Fonds]

I don't understand why people are complaining about developments in the MMO genre. It's one of the fastest evolving genres in the gaming industry.

Why not bash shooters? They've been doing the same thing since wolvenstein 3D.

 

[Moaradin]

The item modifications in this game is one of the best innovative things I have seen in a MMO. Does not get the praise it deserves. It's a HUGE feature that definitely gets overlooked.

 

[Yaska]

So I guess we are having another day of "But where is Stephen Reid??"