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Star Wars: The Old Republic [Releasing Date: Dec 20 NA/EU - NDA Lifted]

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Andrex said:
I updated my drivers and was able to watch the cinematic! (Latest CG trailer... I wonder if it rotates between all three, hope it does.)

Fixed the weird resolution it set me as (where like 1/3 of the bottom of my screen was black and a stretched 1024x600 took up the rest.) Can't log into a server though, says to check again later. So I guess I will. Was hoping to finally play. :(

Not sure why you are spoilering that stuff heh. All 3 cinematics are in the game. The 3rd revealed one is the games opening cinematic, and then the republic and empire side each play one of the different two as their opening.
 
Cipherr said:
Its not the 'WoW' model. Its the standard MMO model. WoW did not invent it.
Uh, it's very much the WoW model. Which is a specific variant of the DIKU model, and TOR is heavily within the WoW branch of that.

Or you can go play EQ1 and compare. Yeah, exactly.
 

Gvaz

Banned
1. That guy is flat out wrong about the kotor. The theme and visual flair along with conversations is like KOTOR, yes. The combat is nothing like kotor. The only thing similar is the reactive animations based on your attacks vs the npc or player (though harder to see with all the action going on) but mechanically it's just an mmo.

The Flashpoints he's also wrong about as well, it's just a dungeon with a couple cutscenes. Theres a first boss, a second boss, etc and you complete it in a very linear fashion. It reminds me more of Aion, actually. Only a handful of WoW dungeons are not like that (though arguably they're better because they're not linear). Raids however are another story in wow for obvious reasons (doing them multiple times, clearing certain wings at different times of the week keeps things fresh, etc) but I haven't gotten to the raids in TOR so I can't comment. Well, WoW's dungeons are a little more open in general than the flashpoints, and bonus quests inside are okay but they're not very interesting bonus quests when all they say is "kill 30 dudes!" Okay...I was going to do that anyways??

2. Like I said I can understand why people might like it, though I don't know what his reasons are.

3. Yes it's different in the theme/setting, but that's about it. There are features that wow does not have, but that does not mean that because of that it's a different game. I suppose I should say it's not that it's wow, but it's a typical mmo with most of the polish of WoW rather than being a direct copy, which isn't what I was trying to say. However, what I will say is that WoW obviously did not invent the mmo genre, lots of these things were in mmos way before it. WoW however popularized the genre as well as polished it up to the point of, in my opinion, being the standard. There are contentions I have with wow in practice and design, but that's neither here nor there because I don't consider it a "gold" standard of mmo design, rather a base minimum.

4. different standards. I feel it's mostly polished other than performance/animations/progression/VA/cutscenes/features that could be improved upon (that most likely will not be fixed until after release I'd wager) For me, I generally get bored around level 20-30 in mmos. That's why earlier I mentioned my "level 20 test". I also got sick of wow first time playing it around level 20, I came back in a different light and went on to make an 85, 83, 69, 80, and smattering of other alts.

For me, I'm bored of the "wow model" or I suppose for everyone else "the mmo model" and would love the game more if they totally overhauled the combat. Make it an action rpg like TERA where the combat actually looks and feels dynamic, and I'd never stop playing. So I suppose it's not so much the mmo model I'm bored of, but the combat itself, and how unchanging some aspects of the genre is.

As for "trolling" last I checked posting comments based on empirical data and personal experience with various mmos wasn't trolling.
 

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
BattleMonkey said:
Not sure why you are spoilering that stuff heh. All 3 cinematics are in the game. The 3rd revealed one is the games opening cinematic, and then the republic and empire side each play one of the different two as their opening.

Ah OK, cool.

I spoilered it because I don't want to be lynched by the angry people who really got trolled by BioWare. :p
 

Cipherr

Member
Gvaz said:
I suppose I should say it's not that it's wow, but it's a typical mmo with most of the polish of WoW rather than being a direct copy, which isn't what I was trying to say. However, what I will say is that WoW obviously did not invent the mmo genre, lots of these things were in mmos way before it. WoW however popularized the genre as well as polished it up to the point of, in my opinion, being the standard.


And that I 100% agree with, it just starts the grate when people liken mechanics that started in tons of MMO's before WoW as the 'WoW model' or the 'EQ model' since those are the only MMO's they seem to have had experience with. WoW did popularize it, most definitely and because of that its likely crediting the whole of those similarities to WoW is probably going to be very common, so meh. Just a pet peeve I guess.
 

Dexterryu1

Neo Member
I think one of the things that gets lost in the shuffle of "it's like WoW" is the fact that there is essentially 8 completely new classes compared to other games. I don't think I've seen in any preview or impressions thread about how X class is the equivalent of a rogue or paladin, or priest. They are all pretty different, as they should be in Star Wars/Sci/Fi vs Fantasy.
 
Dexterryu1 said:
I think one of the things that gets lost in the shuffle of "it's like WoW" is the fact that there is essentially 8 completely new classes compared to other games. I don't think I've seen in any preview or impressions thread about how X class is the equivalent of a rogue or paladin, or priest. They are all pretty different, as they should be in Star Wars/Sci/Fi vs Fantasy.

One can make comparisons, but each class has several build options which can be fairly different as essential the advanced classes make for almost 2 completely different classes. WoW didn't come up with these classes either, they have been around since the days of pen and paper RPG's and found in countless games. The holy trinity is present of course here, and even games that have tried to get away from it end up still following it when players break into their group dynamics as it just makes sense strategically to build your force in such a manner.
 

ihasaflavour

Neo Member
THE Caffeinated said:
I felt like playing the original KotOR again, are there any visual mods for the PC version or anything like that to make the game look as good as possible nowdays ?

Same here!

I have not played the original KOTOR since it launched. Would love to replay it today.
 
Gvaz said:
1. That guy is flat out wrong about the kotor. The theme and visual flair along with conversations is like KOTOR, yes. The combat is nothing like kotor. The only thing similar is the reactive animations based on your attacks vs the npc or player (though harder to see with all the action going on) but mechanically it's just an mmo.

The Flashpoints he's also wrong about as well, it's just a dungeon with a couple cutscenes. Theres a first boss, a second boss, etc and you complete it in a very linear fashion. It reminds me more of Aion, actually. Only a handful of WoW dungeons are not like that (though arguably they're better because they're not linear). Raids however are another story in wow for obvious reasons (doing them multiple times, clearing certain wings at different times of the week keeps things fresh, etc) but I haven't gotten to the raids in TOR so I can't comment. Well, WoW's dungeons are a little more open in general than the flashpoints, and bonus quests inside are okay but they're not very interesting bonus quests when all they say is "kill 30 dudes!" Okay...I was going to do that anyways??

Just wanted to add that the combat has some KOTOR similarities (i.e. you can queue a couple attacks BUT the UI doesn't show it well...actually not at all). Original KOTOR used an AD&D combat format with feats but the combat abilties in both are very, very similar (example are death field/force push/force storm). Animations are also very KOTOR like, with dueling of blades.

You can't pause the combat of course.

As to the instance vs flashpoints comments. They are similar but TOR's is just better done IMO (note I only played up to firxt expansion in WoW) with multiple options to success plus the newer flashpoints have secret shortcuts/solutions based off your crew skills (example archaelogy finds a lever in a wall to open a door). Almost no one has complained about the flashpoints being inferior to me, even ones who DON'T like the game since they are burned out on WoW/Traditional MMO style. In fact it is one of its strong points.

The big kicker though is an unknown of course and if TOR will ever expand into space (like SWG did). If they do in the future expansion, then it will be nothing like WoW. However, for launch, there will be many similarities in game systems.
 

Gvaz

Banned
maabus1999 said:
Just wanted to add that the combat has some KOTOR similarities (i.e. you can queue a couple attacks BUT the UI doesn't show it well...actually not at all). Original KOTOR used an AD&D combat format with feats but the combat abilties in both are very, very similar (example are death field/force push/force storm). Animations are also very KOTOR like, with dueling of blades.

You can't pause the combat of course.

As to the instance vs flashpoints comments. They are similar but TOR's is just better done IMO (note I only played up to firxt expansion in WoW) with multiple options to success plus the newer flashpoints have secret shortcuts/solutions based off your crew skills (example archaelogy finds a lever in a wall to open a door). Almost no one has complained about the flashpoints being inferior to me, even ones who DON'T like the game since they are burned out on WoW/Traditional MMO style. In fact it is one of its strong points.

The big kicker though is an unknown of course and if TOR will ever expand into space (like SWG did). If they do in the future expansion, then it will be nothing like WoW. However, for launch, there will be many similarities in game systems.

Right, but it's a star wars games, some of these things like force storm and the like are going to be similar, though not implemented exactly the same way.

I think if it was said to be a "spiritual successor" then I'd agree wholeheartedly

edit: oh wow I didn't know about that, which is better that how wow does it, with buffs with rare drops.

As for if I like the flashpoints, yes I do. I personally enjoy them (though if you're doing them more than once or twice you better be fucking skipping the cutscene chatter) but my major complaint is there isn't enough of them.
 
Cipherr said:
And that I 100% agree with, it just starts the grate when people liken mechanics that started in tons of MMO's before WoW as the 'WoW model' or the 'EQ model' since those are the only MMO's they seem to have had experience with. WoW did popularize it, most definitely and because of that its likely crediting the whole of those similarities to WoW is probably going to be very common, so meh. Just a pet peeve I guess.
WoW standardized things like quest-centric leveling, solo play in MMOs, instanced dungeons for leveling, instanced raids, PvE all classes viable. TOR will have all of that. It will even have many of the smaller details, like dual spec, flight paths, hard modes, and so on.

Not all MMOs are that close to WoW. Not even all DIKUs are that close. It's kind of disingenuous to pretend that all other MMOs are that unimaginative.

Now World of Warcraft did not invent all of that, but it did innovate with some of those, particularly the "go all the way" aspect of their questing and instancing systems. When you could solo to cap in WoW and mostly do it questing, and do all your group content in instances, that was an innovation at the time. A lot of people hate that change, and a lot of people like it. That's a different issue.

DAOC has instances, EQ has a handful of obtuse and obnoxious quests, but for both, it's not close to what WoW did. A lot of people complain that WoW destroyed or ruined the MMO genre, even as they pan it for being completely derivative. How did it destroy the MMO genre if it didn't change anything? The genre must have been already destroyed?
 

Trouble

Banned
Lombax said:
his first point [number 5] is wrong. whats funny is in his next point he brings up the Darth Bane series where Jedi are using double bladed light sabers.
That whole video is terrible. Point #1 may be the worst. Apparently being quest based is a bad thing for TOR because it worked so well for WoW?
 

bill0527

Member
Lombax said:
his first point [number 5] is wrong. whats funny is in his next point he brings up the Darth Bane series where Jedi are using double bladed light sabers.

I didn't get past number 5, but based on just that point, he's approaching his whole analysis wrong.

For starters, I don't know of anyone in any official capacity who thinks that TOR will topple WoW. I haven't heard anyone from Bioware, or EA talking smack about how they're going to swoop down and take the vast majority of WoW's player base. If someone other than a troll or fanboy has said that, they are being foolish. WoW has had a 7 year headstart. You aren't going to overtake that overnight.

His major flaw (at least with number 5) is that he seems to think the casual player might give a shit about whether or not something in the game is lining up with something that was established prior in a comic book that only a hardcore Star Wars fan read. The casual player is what will determine whether or not this game is a success, and not the nerd sitting at his computer with a bullet point checklist looking for even the slightest contradiction. The only thing the casual player will care about is if the game is any good. Is it fun to play? I mean seriously, outside of a select few, like this guy in the video, nobody gives a shit whether the Sith or Jedi originated the double bladed lightsaber.
 

Moaradin

Member
The music is so good. I don't think anything will be able to top this soundtrack. John Williams music mixed with original orchestrated music is orgasmic.
 

Sophia

Member
ihasaflavour said:
Interesting video I stumbled upon on Youtube:

"Top Five Reasons Why Star Wars The Old Republic May Not Kill WoW"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqSshbLEoOc

That's quite the joke of a video.. If anything will kill The Old Republic, it'll be the technical issues/current lack of optimization, not anything he listed in this video. And even I don't think'll make a bit dent.

Also, #3 doesn't apply to TOR. It's extremely polished. A lot of the other MMORPGs that have come out recently have been very very poor even in their beta. TOR on the other hand, reminds me of WoW's beta period, where's more polished than the rest of the genre out there (Framerate optimization aside.)
 

Darklord

Banned
Moaradin said:
The music is so good. I don't think anything will be able to top this soundtrack. John Williams music mixed with original orchestrated music is orgasmic.

Isn't it a mixture of John Williams, Jeremy Soule and 5 composers making new music? I want the soundtrack as much as the actual game.
 

Sophia

Member
Darklord said:
Isn't it a mixture of John Williams, Jeremy Soule and 5 composers making new music? I want the soundtrack as much as the actual game.

Something like that. It is truly amazing tho. I wish more MMORPGs had full combat music. I can only think of EQ2 and FFXI that do...
 

Giolon

Member
ihasaflavour said:
Interesting video I stumbled upon on Youtube:

"Top Five Reasons Why Star Wars The Old Republic May Not Kill WoW"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqSshbLEoOc

Wow...this guy is a toolbox. I say this not because I expect or want SWTOR to kill WoW, but because he's nerdraging on Star Wars lore contradictions. I say this as a Star Wars nerd.

And this: "Waaaah they're trying to mold Star Wars to the fantasy genre instead of sci-fi"

Hey asshole, Star Wars has always been space fantasy. Why the fuck do you think they call Ben Kenobi a wizard and mock Darth Vader's sorcery (before getting choked). Jesus Christ.

And it's Inquisitor, not Inquisitioner.
 

Neverfade

Member
ihasaflavour said:
Interesting video I stumbled upon on Youtube:

"Top Five Reasons Why Star Wars The Old Republic May Not Kill WoW"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqSshbLEoOc

icE2jsW9z3ch2.gif


You'd have to be a real sperglord to give a shit about the vast majority of that stuff.
 
Can I sound stupid for a moment?

I got an email about preordering the game, and it said something like "now that you've played the beta, extend your experience with the full game" or whatever.

However, I... wasn't aware that I had access to the beta, and when I logged into my account, I had no idea how to figure it out so... what gives?
 

Sophia

Member
brandonh83 said:
Can I sound stupid for a moment?

I got an email about preordering the game, and it said something like "now that you've played the beta, extend your experience with the full game" or whatever.

However, I... wasn't aware that I had access to the beta, and when I logged into my account, I had no idea how to figure it out so... what gives?

Read up? Lots of people got that email. Including those not in the test.
 

Pollux

Member
ihasaflavour said:
Interesting video I stumbled upon on Youtube:

"Top Five Reasons Why Star Wars The Old Republic May Not Kill WoW"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqSshbLEoOc

This dude has some of the weirdest pronunciation of the english language I have ever heard on certain words.

EDIT: He spent a couple hours counting all of WoW's quests one by one? dear lord this guy is one of the biggest fucking losers I've ever seen.
 

Sophia

Member
zmoney said:
This dude has some of the weirdest pronunciation of the english language I have ever heard on certain words.

EDIT: He spent a couple hours counting all of WoW's quests one by one? dear lord this guy is one of the biggest fucking losers I've ever seen.

Blizzard have publicly said how many quests are in WoW at various moments in the game's lifetime.
 

gatti-man

Member
Gvaz said:
1. That guy is flat out wrong about the kotor. The theme and visual flair along with conversations is like KOTOR, yes. The combat is nothing like kotor. The only thing similar is the reactive animations based on your attacks vs the npc or player (though harder to see with all the action going on) but mechanically it's just an mmo.

The Flashpoints he's also wrong about as well, it's just a dungeon with a couple cutscenes. Theres a first boss, a second boss, etc and you complete it in a very linear fashion. It reminds me more of Aion, actually. Only a handful of WoW dungeons are not like that (though arguably they're better because they're not linear). Raids however are another story in wow for obvious reasons (doing them multiple times, clearing certain wings at different times of the week keeps things fresh, etc) but I haven't gotten to the raids in TOR so I can't comment. Well, WoW's dungeons are a little more open in general than the flashpoints, and bonus quests inside are okay but they're not very interesting bonus quests when all they say is "kill 30 dudes!" Okay...I was going to do that anyways??

2. Like I said I can understand why people might like it, though I don't know what his reasons are.

3. Yes it's different in the theme/setting, but that's about it. There are features that wow does not have, but that does not mean that because of that it's a different game. I suppose I should say it's not that it's wow, but it's a typical mmo with most of the polish of WoW rather than being a direct copy, which isn't what I was trying to say. However, what I will say is that WoW obviously did not invent the mmo genre, lots of these things were in mmos way before it. WoW however popularized the genre as well as polished it up to the point of, in my opinion, being the standard. There are contentions I have with wow in practice and design, but that's neither here nor there because I don't consider it a "gold" standard of mmo design, rather a base minimum.

4. different standards. I feel it's mostly polished other than performance/animations/progression/VA/cutscenes/features that could be improved upon (that most likely will not be fixed until after release I'd wager) For me, I generally get bored around level 20-30 in mmos. That's why earlier I mentioned my "level 20 test". I also got sick of wow first time playing it around level 20, I came back in a different light and went on to make an 85, 83, 69, 80, and smattering of other alts.

For me, I'm bored of the "wow model" or I suppose for everyone else "the mmo model" and would love the game more if they totally overhauled the combat. Make it an action rpg like TERA where the combat actually looks and feels dynamic, and I'd never stop playing. So I suppose it's not so much the mmo model I'm bored of, but the combat itself, and how unchanging some aspects of the genre is.

As for "trolling" last I checked posting comments based on empirical data and personal experience with various mmos wasn't trolling.


Now your points come across far better.
 
The music is awesome and really makes the story stuff stand out and at times forget your playing a MMO...

But it seems that the music kicks in at really random or odd times that just doesn't fit too.
 

Trouble

Banned
Just got an email about the earlier emails.
EMAIL ERROR

On September 29th, you received two emails regarding the Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ Game Testing Program. These emails were sent to you by mistake. This was due to an internal error and not the result of hacking or malware. Please be assured that no personal information was compromised. We are sorry for any confusion this may have caused. Please note that receipt of these e-mails does not affect your chances to be invited to test the game at a later date.

Between now and launch, we will be conducting additional large scale Beta Testing Weekends where we will be inviting more people than ever before. Additionally we will be releasing even more information about the game as we gear up for launch in December. If you haven't signed up for game testing yet, you can still do so at www.swtor.com/tester.

Thank you for your understanding,
The Star Wars: The Old Republic team.
 
Man, I hope that the early game access offered with the pre-order is gonna come soon, it would be a massive finger in the ass if we could only play it like early December. I must say I was hoping to be able to play it right now, don't understand that we're not given access now since we've pre ordered while others are in the freaking beta.
 

Emitan

Member
THE-Pink-Dagger said:
Man, I hope that the early game access offered with the pre-order is gonna come soon, it would be a massive finger in the ass if we could only play it like early December. I must say I was hoping to be able to play it right now, don't understand that we're not given access now since we've pre ordered while others are in the freaking beta.
Early game access != beta access.
 

CzarTim

Member
THE-Pink-Dagger said:
Man, I hope that the early game access offered with the pre-order is gonna come soon, it would be a massive finger in the ass if we could only play it like early December. I must say I was hoping to be able to play it right now, don't understand that we're not given access now since we've pre ordered while others are in the freaking beta.
It won't be until December. And even then, very likely only one or two weeks.
 
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