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[V_Arnold]

...

its a cold day in hell when consumers see a company imposing restrictions on community events and call it 'support'. it doesn't matter if blizzard is giving consent when consent should never be required in the first place. They don't get nice points because they could have been bigger assholes than they currently are.

Like it or not, buying an SCII account pretty much means entering a competition. If you enter a running competition, you are not supposed to lend your place to the best runner in the world in the sunday morning local running competition. That is it. Your license to play, YOURS only. HuK, at the end of the day, was basically unintentionally boosting TLO's account, because there is a difference between their skill levels, and that is not something what Blizzard wants from their ladder to look like.

And Panda, I still do not get why people need to use world greedy bastards, fuck them and assholes when they are playin and 'lovin' their games in the same time. I just do not get it. Does the idea of a somewhat flawed product has to directly translate into verbal harassment? Why?

 

[Rubashov]

...

its a cold day in hell when consumers see a company imposing restrictions on community events and call it 'support'. it doesn't matter if blizzard is giving consent when consent should never be required in the first place. They don't get nice points because they could have been bigger assholes than they currently are.

Right...because I was calling the lack of LAN good support. No.

If you don't think consent should be required in the first place, then you have a bigger problem with intellectual property laws in general. Technically you need consent to even post a youtube video of someone else's work in some countries.

 

[Pandaman]

Like it or not, buying an SCII account pretty much means entering a competition. If you enter a running competition, you are not supposed to lend your place to the best runner in the world in the sunday morning local running competition. That is it. Your license to play, YOURS only. HuK, at the end of the day, was basically unintentionally boosting TLO's account, because there is a difference between their skill levels, and that is not something what Blizzard wants from their ladder to look like.

And Panda, I still do not get why people need to use world greedy bastards, fuck them and assholes when they are playin and 'lovin' their games in the same time. I just do not get it. Does the idea of a somewhat flawed product has to directly translate into verbal harassment? Why?

When there is merit to the idea that te product has been intentionally hobbled compared to an expected standard purely to strengthen financial interests. yes, it does translate.

when the market lets companies get away with cutting corners, cutting that corner quickly becomes standard across the industry. even if the game is otherwise amazing, consumers should protest the action to dissuade other companies from making similar decisions with their games. starcraft might be able to survive in the market by burning through all of blizzards amassed good will, but other games couldn't.

Right...because I was calling the lack of LAN good support. No.

when in doubt, deflect? don't think i was talking about lan with you.

If you don't think consent should be required in the first place, then you have a bigger problem with intellectual property laws in general. Technically you need consent to even post a youtube video of someone else's work in some countries.

' intellectual property laws in general'
'some countries'

evidently, i do not.

My sole problem is with people so sycophantic that they mistake a lack of active hate as love and support. I wont thank blizzard for not enforcing their crippling restrictions in masse, I'll thank them when they actually do something supportive to e-sports beyond making empty promises.

 

[V_Arnold]

And I will hate on them when they make a bad game. That has yet to happen. To each to his own.

 

[zlatko]

And I will hate on them when they make a bad game. That has yet to happen. To each to his own.

 

[Pandaman]

And I will hate on them when they make a bad game. That has yet to happen. To each to his own.

cool, thats your choice to make.
not ours.

 

[a176]

And I will hate on them when they make a bad game. That has yet to happen. To each to his own.

you dont need chat channels

 

[Keikaku]

Awesome game, no idea what you're talking about. A really good adaptation of SC to the N64 console.

 

[Pandaman]

sc64 was pretty awesome.

Spoiler

it had offline multiplayer for one thing

 

[V_Arnold]

you dont need chat channels

Yep, I do not. People do not need chat channels. They are not using it, and it is in the game.
Also, chat channels or no chat channels have never been the deciding factor for the gameplay, imho

 

[zlatko]

sc64 was pretty awesome.

Spoiler

it had offline multiplayer for one thing

 

[V_Arnold]

sc64 was pretty awesome.

Spoiler

it had offline multiplayer for one thing

Spoiler

Go play that then. Offline.

 

[Keikaku]

sc64 was pretty awesome.

Spoiler

it had offline multiplayer for one thing

It also had exclusive missions and every mission from both vanilla SC and BW. So, yeah, it was awesome ^_^

 

[Pandaman]

It also had exclusive missions and every mission from both vanilla SC and BW. So, yeah, it was awesome ^_^

16 unit selection limit too iirc.

 

[Yoshichan]

sc64 = Amazing

 

[Rubashov]

when in doubt, deflect? don't think i was talking about lan with you.

You quoted me. What other restrictions are you talking about then?

My sole problem is with people so sycophantic that they mistake a lack of active hate as love and support. I wont thank blizzard for not enforcing their crippling restrictions in masse, I'll thank them when they actually do something supportive to e-sports beyond making empty promises.

Well if that's your only problem, then those people are easy enough to ignore.

I don't know what promises they have made, and I'm not saying that we should write thank you notes not to taking down every streamer out there. My point is that the scene has exploded; leagues and tournaments are everywhere. If this is the way it is without Blizzard giving any support to esports, then they can stay where they are.

 

[Pandaman]

You quoted me. What other restrictions are you talking about then?

the top paragraph in the quote.

Well if that's your only problem, then those people are easy enough to ignore.

ofcourse they are, but ignoring them is risky imo. companies want to make the most bang for their buck, i understand that. if consumers let them get away with something, they'll keep doing it. eventually other companies will notice and also try to get away with it. i don't want that to happen, so i actively attempt to confront these people as publicly as possible.

I don't know what promises they have made, and I'm not saying that we should write thank you notes not to taking down every streamer out there. My point is that the scene has exploded; leagues and tournaments are everywhere. If this is the way it is without Blizzard giving any support to esports, then they can stay where they are.

okay, i think the problem here is that im working from an assumption that we don't share. If we don't agree that the removal of lan was a big blow to esports... then we just don't agree. not much more to be said there without starting another discussion. I believe it does and that the scene would be even better off than it currently is if blizzard reversed their decision regarding lan.

 

[hoverX]

Other than the lag that might be introduced with playing over the internet how does lack of LAN support affect eSports?

 

[Pandaman]

Other than the lag that might be introduced with playing over the internet how does lack of LAN support affect eSports?

well, disconnects, regames and referee decisions come part in parcel with lag and delegitimatize some matchup results. see: that big debate when flashes heater shorted out his booth and the referees gave the game to jaedong despite his lead in the game being far from a one sided stomp. People want to see clean games with clean ad clear winners, anything that interferes with that is a problem imo.

 

[Rubashov]

the top paragraph in the quote.

Ah so you see letting other entities host tournaments and charge money to view/attend them as a "restriction." Why not. I guess they have to say no to somebody.

okay, i think the problem here is that im working from an assumption that we don't share. If we don't agree that the removal of lan was a big blow to esports... then we just don't agree. not much more to be said there without starting another discussion. I believe it does and that the scene would be even better off than it currently is if blizzard reversed their decision regarding lan.

Of course I agree with this. I don't think anyone can make a good argument for forcing Battlenet on a competitive event. There's a list of problems that Bnet 2.0 has introduced for pro players at events and at home. But in spite of that, I'm entertained with quality events on a weekly basis. Unless the pros start quitting because of lag issues, then I think it can only get better.

I hope they do reverse the LAN decision, but I won't be surprised if it's 5 years from now before it happens.

 

[Corran Horn]

come on guys it 2011, internet is so great these days with att and Comcast, canada that we don't need LAN duh!

 

[hoverX]

well, disconnects, regames and referee decisions come part in parcel with lag and delegitimatize some matchup results. see: that big debate when flashes heater shorted out his booth and the referees gave the game to jaedong despite his lead in the game being far from a one sided stomp. People want to see clean games with clean ad clear winners, anything that interferes with that is a problem imo.

fair enough.

 

[hoverX]

I just finished playing 2 of my initial placement matches. Lost both miserably. Do they factor in the skill of your opponent or is it strictly win/loss?

 

[Pandaman]

I just finished playing 2 of my initial placement matches. Lost both miserably. Do they factor in the skill of your opponent or is it strictly win/loss?

win/loss.

when i played in eu, i didnt beat anyone over gold but got placed in diamond immediately.

 

[Corran Horn]

I'm more interested in a features to allow disconnected people to rejoin game, or group replays than LAN by now. I've given up on that.

 

[Pandaman]

group replays is one of those fancy high tech features only possible in the late 90s.

 

[Corran Horn]

group replays is one of those fancy high tech features only possible in the late 90s.

maybe if the next Xbox has that feature.

 

[SteveWinwood]

How'd Haunted get banned?

 

[Q8D3vil]

maybe if the next Xbox has that feature.

halo 3 had it.

 

[Gandie]

halo 3 had it.

Reach didn't.

 

[Guesong]

Hello SC2-GAF! After years of lurking, I'm glad to be finally able to join all the discussions!

Maybe it'll also give me the kick I need to stop having to fear of losing in Ladder!


A question now : I'm currently considering the idea to buy a new keyboard and mouse (mine are getting old) and I was checking out the Razer DeathAdder Mouse and BlackWidow keyboard. Do any of you have experience with them? Do they really add a noticeable improvement in precision and fast responses for SC2? Or could I just go with regular Logitech stuff and it would be the same?

 

[V_Arnold]

Hello SC2-GAF! After years of lurking, I'm glad to be finally able to join all the discussions!

Maybe it'll also give me the kick I need to stop having to fear of losing in Ladder!


A question now : I'm currently considering the idea to buy a new keyboard and mouse (mine are getting old) and I was checking out the Razer DeathAdder Mouse and BlackWidow keyboard. Do any of you have experience with them? Do they really add a noticeable improvement in precision and fast responses for SC2? Or could I just go with regular Logitech stuff and it would be the same?

I think that precision comes first, and later on the road, you will be free to decide that you need better instruments for that precision. I keep using my old noname mouse just fine and my veteran Logitech keyboard from 2006. It works, and it works good.

 

[jasonng]

Another losing streak and I just want to list out all the ways you can harass zerg early game:

Blue flame hellions
hellion drops
medivac drops
2 rax pressures
6 rax all in
reaper bunker harass
1 rax bunker harass
banshee harass
proxy 2 starport banshee harass
4 gate
proxy 2 gate
phoenix harass
2 phoenix voidray harass
cannon cheese
pylon wall into cannons
<10 pool with spine
baneling all in
+1 zergling all in
1 base roach all in


... and the list goes on. How am I suppose to be able to remember how to defend all of this on ladder when I'm going against a complete stranger? Even scouting can become unreliable if my lings can't get past the wall off and my sacrificial overlord doesn't catch that critical building I need to be aware of. I am so peeved that after investing so much into this game that I'm not getting better. I seriously can't get over this hump and it frustrates me to no end.

 

[Q8D3vil]

Another losing streak and I just want to list out all the ways you can harass zerg early game:

Blue flame hellions
hellion drops
medivac drops
2 rax pressures
6 rax all in
reaper bunker harass
1 rax bunker harass
banshee harass
proxy 2 starport banshee harass
4 gate
proxy 2 gate
phoenix harass
2 phoenix voidray harass
cannon cheese
pylon wall into cannons
<10 pool with spine
baneling all in
+1 zergling all in
1 base roach all in


... and the list goes on. How am I suppose to be able to remember how to defend all of this on ladder when I'm going against a complete stranger? Even scouting can become unreliable if my lings can't get past the wall off and my sacrificial overlord doesn't catch that critical building I need to be aware of. I am so peeved that after investing so much into this game that I'm not getting better. I seriously can't get over this hump and it frustrates me to no end.

you need to know the difference between harass, all in and cheese.

 

[jasonng]

I know the difference. The problem for me is that an harass is often done well enough that it costs me the game. There are so much to look out for that I don't get the practice I need to properly defend.

 

[zlatko]

I know the difference. The problem for me is that an harass is often done well enough that it costs me the game. There are so much to look out for that I don't get the practice I need to properly defend.

What league are you?

 

[mescalineeyes]

Another losing streak and I just want to list out all the ways you can harass zerg early game:

Blue flame hellions
hellion drops
medivac drops
2 rax pressures
6 rax all in
reaper bunker harass
1 rax bunker harass
banshee harass
proxy 2 starport banshee harass
4 gate
proxy 2 gate
phoenix harass
2 phoenix voidray harass
cannon cheese
pylon wall into cannons
<10 pool with spine
baneling all in
+1 zergling all in
1 base roach all in


... and the list goes on. How am I suppose to be able to remember how to defend all of this on ladder when I'm going against a complete stranger? Even scouting can become unreliable if my lings can't get past the wall off and my sacrificial overlord doesn't catch that critical building I need to be aware of. I am so peeved that after investing so much into this game that I'm not getting better. I seriously can't get over this hump and it frustrates me to no end.

dronescout and steal his gas.

boom, options halved.

 

[Void Insanity]

I know the difference. The problem for me is that an harass is often done well enough that it costs me the game. There are so much to look out for that I don't get the practice I need to properly defend.

If you are low leagued enough do a double gas steal and go baneling. He'll either stay and try and get a gas back or marine all in you.

 

[Awesome Animals]

reaper bunker harass

Ima hafta tri dat

 

[Pandaman]

see 1-2rax front with no gas:
Blue flame hellions
hellion drops
medivac drops
2 rax pressures
6 rax all in
reaper bunker harass
1 rax bunker harass
banshee harass]
proxy 2 starport banshee harass

open 15/14, patrol drone at base of ramp, second ovie over hatch.
2 rax pressures
6 rax all in
1 rax bunker harass

get speedling.
6 rax all in

see gas and 1rax:
Blue flame hellions
hellion drops
medivac drops
2 rax pressures
6 rax all in
reaper bunker harass
1 rax bunker harass
banshee harass
proxy 2 starport banshee harass

open 15/14 patrol drone, ovie over natural:
Blue flame hellions
hellion drops
medivac drops
reaper bunker harass
1 rax bunker harass
banshee harass
proxy 2 starport banshee harass

get warren, ling scout, pressure front and ovie scout. respond with evo/speedling/autowin when you dont see CC:
Blue flame hellions
hellion drops
medivac drops
banshee harass
proxy 2 starport banshee harass

spawn zerg.
4 gate
proxy 2 gate
phoenix harass
2 phoenix voidray harass
cannon cheese
pylon wall into cannons

open 11/18, 14/16, 14/14, patrol drone, ovie in natural.
phoenix harass
2 phoenix voidray harass
cannon cheese
pylon wall into cannons

see zealot/sentry first. build drones and stuff.
phoenix harass
2 phoenix voidray harass

see zealot/stalker first, get evo, get third queen, get one spore at base of ramp as a air/dt response.
phoenix harass
2 phoenix voidray harass

open 14/13 unless you spawn close air and scout no fast pool cheese.
<10 pool with spine
baneling all in
+1 zergling all in
1 base roach all in

we should talk on mumble over some games.

 

[(._.)]

so did QXC make code a or something?

 

[Aylinato]

So I've switched to random and Terran is definitely my weakest race. Also I don't know how to make banelings, but I'm good at speedlings

 

[Keikaku]

So I've switched to random and Terran is definitely my weakest race. Also I don't know how to make banelings, but I'm good at speedlings

- Build Baneling Nest
- Select speedlings and hit 'E' a bunch
- Enjoy Banelings

Spoiler

<3

 

[Yoshichan]

I also wish to know how make mariniez

 

[Chinese Electric Batman]

so did QXC make code a or something?

Almost.

Lost to DRG then he would have had one more match.

 

[Keikaku]

I also wish to know how make mariniez

My man!

- Build a Barracks
- Hit 'A' a bunch
- Enjoy your shoot-y boys!

 

[Pandaman]

- Build Baneling Nest
- Select speedlings and hit 'E' a bunch
- Enjoy Banelings

Spoiler

<3

thats so weird, i do it the same way.

 

[Keikaku]

thats so weird, i do it the same way.

You build banelings the same way??? We should hang out! I can't believe you build banelings the same way too.

 

[blackpensnowbird]

so um i got this game after having played broodwar for many years and after having played the beta last summer and was wondering... can you watch replays with your party? it was always fun in broodwar to go back and watch old replays with people you knew for a while or watch a game that you just played together and talk about it, but i don't know if that's possible here. if so, that's pretty lame.

 

[Yoshichan]

so um i got this game after having played broodwar for many years and after having played the beta last summer and was wondering... can you watch replays with your party? it was always fun in broodwar to go back and watch old replays with people you knew for a while or watch a game that you just played together and talk about it, but i don't know if that's possible here. if so, that's pretty lame.

You can't watch replays together.