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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT2| GL HF GG
- Thread starter Corran Horn
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Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Guess bunch of people at my college are in a SC2 group. They have a team on the CSL. TIME TO JOIN A TEAM! ^.^'
Or just play with some local people for once in my life. :lol
Or just play with some local people for once in my life. :lol
mescalineeyes
Banned
TheExodu5 said:
You know how the saying goes: Those who can be cheesed, should be cheesed.
Honestly though, I don't think that most people should chime in on the balance discussion -- even I don't, because I don't feel I am good enough yet to be able to judge it... except if it comes to Scrap Station, which is heavily in my favor
Vaporak said:
I wish.
and:
nope.
even if the zerg crushes the fastest mutas possible, you only need 2 phoenixes to easymode kill infinite muta. at the worst he suicides to kill probes. but you have 2 nexuses out to replace them and a saturated expo and he has bad econ and a useless tech. you're still winning.
also:
nope.
Vap, 3gate expand doesn't mean you're limited to only building three gates ever. :\ its a 3 base build all said and done, so yeah you'll probably need more than 5 production buildings.
lets not be silly. -.-
now lets be silly: im not just trying to have stargate be the first tech branch, im trying to make it the only one! its a 3base void ray ~ carrier build, mauwahahaha! [i really want speedlots though -.-]
Zzoram said:
Most of the games start out with some kind of baneling build and each player trying to melt the other's drones. If they both survive in decent shape it can transition into anything, mostly mutas or r/h/infestor. If you go for mutas make sure you either: Get more mutas than the other guy or Don't get your entire flock fungal'd. Late game tends to transition into ultras because they cant be rooted with fungal. Sometimes broodlords come into play as well, but I havent seen them in a while.
The Lamonster
Member
Any known upcoming patches?
Pandaman said:
Let us not exaggarate here. Mutalisks can easily kill 2 phoenixes no matter what kind of static micro model you built up in your mind. Yeah, feel free to run away. Split into two
Or what is infinitely more important, Mutas will attack armies, harass, destroy. Run away with your phoenixes, but then you will simply live with phoenixes while huge amounts of mutalisks simply kill Protoss.
i think you're exaggerating 2base muta.V_Arnold said:Let us not exaggarate here. Mutalisks can easily kill 2 phoenixes no matter what kind of static micro model you built up in your mind. Yeah, feel free to run away. Split into two
Or what is infinitely more important, Mutas will attack armies, harass, destroy. Run away with your phoenixes, but then you will simply live with phoenixes while huge amounts of mutalisks simply kill Protoss.
mutalisks can never catch a micro'd phoenix. phoenixes outrange mutas and attack in a 360 degree radius while moving. with bonus damage. sure you can crush out 8 mutas in 8-9minutes, split and kill alot of probes. but you lose 8 mutas, alot of potential econ and the tech path you spent the game on. [and you're probably over-invested in gas]
until 1.1.2 all i ever did was muta/ling and i hated going against star tech. blink and robo were possible to handle, but star was always my Achilles heel. [hence why i've been all over its balls for the last few weeks]
Pandaman said:
Again, you are exaggerating. You CANNOT kill infinite amount of mutas with 2 phoenixes, cause you cant run away forever. And again, the classic "move back, harass, INSTANTLY move forward when he tries to close up" still works, if he is just one split second late. I have done many 2-base mutaing against prot, and when he tries to put up defenses, and not pushes instantly in battle, it can be easily followed up to 3 base. And who would kill your mutas if you harass, and not let them die?
Just encountered a weird problem while playing a ladder 1v1. My control key wasn't letting me macro. I think even certain keys on my keyboard were fucking up also. Oh god this pissed me off and I would have whopped this guy's ass if it was working. I'm used to being able to make probes while I'm scouting and fighting but being able to just click to do one thing at a time really put me on tilt. The game kept stalling for me and not in the way it does when you have a bad connection. Once I gg'd I restarted SCII and it went into repair mode for some reason. Hope it fixed that problem. Anybody ever encounter this?
you seem to be taking 'infinite' pretty literally, although i didnt use it in that post.V_Arnold said:
if it makes you feel better: a phoenix when microd can kill enough mutas to significantly outweigh its own resource cost in a fairly small timeframe.
yeah, eventually when you get 20 mutas, you can rape 2 phoenixes.
the problem is your 20 muta vs 2 phoenix scenerio is entirely unrealistic.
muta/ling cannot just sneak out 20 mutas by the 9 minute mark. it doesn't happen.
by the time you get 20 muta, protoss has built more phoenixes.
...
actually, since we're being hyper literal, when i say it doesn't happen what i mean is that although possible, it will not occur in an actual game unless protoss is 100% pacifistic and the zerg knows this in advance.
Panda, my problem might be that I have actually encountered a few protoss where he seemed to try and micro well AND he massed Phoenixes, to what I said "fuck it, I will simply mass Muta MORE", and I eat him eventually. One I remember boiled down to him being idiot by trying to fight me inside my base where there were spore crawlers, but the other went down on him HAVING to fight my mutalisks at his base if he wanted to stay alive. That 30-35 muta with constantly being upgraded vs like 15-20 phoenix was not even a fight, it was a massacre, because all it takes is one shot's time where all your mutas can shoot, and then it is kinda over for phoenixes. And again, he can run away, but then you can just dodge back and continue shooting buildings.
Maybe against a pro, he would decimate my muta army, but then there is always the option of just ignoring that and keep pumping speedlings, for what he will have no answer at all. And we are talking about an "all resource into phoenix vs all gas into muta" comparisons. Just my opinion, ofc.
Maybe against a pro, he would decimate my muta army, but then there is always the option of just ignoring that and keep pumping speedlings, for what he will have no answer at all. And we are talking about an "all resource into phoenix vs all gas into muta" comparisons. Just my opinion, ofc.
Pandaman said:
20 Mutas vs 2 pheonix's is a very unrealistic scenario, but 2 6-9 mutas vs 2 pheonix's when the Protoss only gets 1 or 2 stargates after a 3 gate expand is pretty much the standard timing I've found. It's why I don't do it, the mutas will easily win that battle and keep the toss bottled up on 2 bases. You don't even have to make any more mutas after that, if you tech switch to roach hydras the protoss will probably still be making pheonix's to deal with mutas harass and won't be able to get to colossus or templar in time.
This isn't just my opinion btw. The general consensus of the TL protoss community is that Pheonix's are an excellent preventive measure to deter muta's from a zerg and move the fight to the ground, but are insufficient as a reactionary measure. Hopefully we're all wrong and a Protoss savior will come and show us the way, lord knows the history of SC is filled with those sorts of moments.
The Lamonster
Member
Has anyone else pre-ordered the StarCraft II Razer peripherals?
V_Arnold said:Panda, my problem might be that I have actually encountered a few protoss where he seemed to try and micro well AND he massed Phoenixes, to what I said "fuck it, I will simply mass Muta MORE", and I eat him eventually. One I remember boiled down to him being idiot by trying to fight me inside my base where there were spore crawlers, but the other went down on him HAVING to fight my mutalisks at his base if he wanted to stay alive. That 30-35 muta with constantly being upgraded vs like 15-20 phoenix was not even a fight, it was a massacre, because all it takes is one shot's time where all your mutas can shoot, and then it is kinda over for phoenixes. And again, he can run away, but then you can just dodge back and continue shooting buildings.
Maybe against a pro, he would decimate my muta army, but then there is always the option of just ignoring that and keep pumping speedlings, for what he will have no answer at all. And we are talking about an "all resource into phoenix vs all gas into muta" comparisons. Just my opinion, ofc.
I'd like to see a replay of that because that sounds like the protoss is just horrible. There aren't many situations where you would want to build more mutas in response to heavy phoenix play. The smart route would be to get infestors and hydras to wipe out his phoenixes and just go kill him because he'll be unlikely to have a sizeable ground force. Also, any smart protoss will not go 1 to 1 phoenix to muta ratio. That'd would be death sentence considering how easy it is for zerg to switch techs.
The Lamonster
Member
I couldn't help myself. Supposed to ship next TuesdayVaporak said:
Any decent Protoss on here have any tips on how to open against Terran and possibly defend a marauder rush? I just started laddering today since the summer and I haven't played a Terran in ages. I have a replay of the game if you want to see me get owned
btw is the TL forum friendly towards newer SCII players? I may want to make a thread there if I ever encounter something I can't take on but idk how they treat beginners.
btw is the TL forum friendly towards newer SCII players? I may want to make a thread there if I ever encounter something I can't take on but idk how they treat beginners.
4 gate will work 90% of the time(._.) said:Any decent Protoss on here have any tips on how to open against Terran and possibly defend a marauder rush? I just started laddering today since the summer and I haven't played a Terran in ages. I have a replay of the game if you want to see me get owned
btw is the TL forum friendly towards newer SCII players? I may want to make a thread there if I ever encounter something I can't take on but idk how they treat beginners.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/4_Gate_Pushvalenti said:
as in this build? because this is the build I usually use, more or less. The article says it isn't good against "One-base, heavy maurader builds " which is what I lost to today.
any ideas on how to vary what I make?
(._.) said:
If you suspect a very early marauder rush, chrono out a zealot or two before your cybercore is done then chrono out a stalker. Basically without stim, the combination of zealot tanking and stalker doing damage will usually be enough to defend against it. Add more gateways and units accordingly. When given the chance, add a robo and get an immortal out immediately if he continues pushing with marauders. It'll be hard to defend against an MM push with just your gateway units when they get stim up so you'll want to tech up before they get their stim and a big enoughball. Before stim, stalker/zealot will beat small amounts of marine/marauders.
edit:
In case you were wondering, not that it means I'm really good or anything.
perryfarrell
Member
The Lamonster said:
You mean those headphones with the lights that change color depending on AMP? :lol
Pretty ridiculous peripheral. Now if they had headphones where the light changes depending on worker count... I might get a pair ;-)
Thanks a bunch. I google'd around and went on TL and this is around what a lot of people/sites said also.ezrarh said:If you suspect a very early marauder rush, chrono out a zealot or two before your cybercore is done then chrono out a stalker. Basically without stim, the combination of zealot tanking and stalker doing damage will usually be enough to defend against it. Add more gateways and units accordingly. When given the chance, add a robo and get an immortal out immediately if he continues pushing with marauders. It'll be hard to defend against an MM push with just your gateway units when they get stim up so you'll want to tech up before they get their stim and a big enoughball. Before stim, stalker/zealot will beat small amounts of marine/marauders.
edit:
In case you were wondering, not that it means I'm really good or anything.
Certain keys worked though which is very weird. I could use C for chronoboost and I think E may have worked also when the Nexus was selected. B, G and Z I know did not work. Had all sorts of performance issues also. The repair seemed to fix it.Ashhong said:
I am on an absolute TEAR through gold right now. I've won 21 out of my last 28 ladder matches, and on a seven game win streak. My last glorious victory was against a well-executed 6-pool on Scrap Station (wide ramp), which used to cause me so much grief in Bronze and Silver I wanted to shoot myself. Oh sweet glory.
I'm regularly beating Platinums on this winning streak. I can TASTE my promotion.
I'm regularly beating Platinums on this winning streak. I can TASTE my promotion.
Congratulations yo!Feep said:I am on an absolute TEAR through gold right now. I've won 21 out of my last 28 ladder matches, and on a seven game win streak. My last glorious victory was against a well-executed 6-pool on Scrap Station (wide ramp), which used to cause me so much grief in Bronze and Silver I wanted to shoot myself. Oh sweet glory.
I'm regularly beating Platinums on this winning streak. I can TASTE my promotion.
remove scrap station, this map is so zerg favored specially in a long macro game.Feep said:I am on an absolute TEAR through gold right now. I've won 21 out of my last 28 ladder matches, and on a seven game win streak. My last glorious victory was against a well-executed 6-pool on Scrap Station (wide ramp), which used to cause me so much grief in Bronze and Silver I wanted to shoot myself. Oh sweet glory.
I'm regularly beating Platinums on this winning streak. I can TASTE my promotion.
that's the first thing i did when i was in bronze and got 6 pooled by another bronze zerg.
anyone can recommend me some good tvz anti-quick hatchery replays ?!
i need to know the best timing to push
Eh, I'm not much for removing maps. Favored this, favored that, whatever.Q8D3vil said:
I usually push with 3 Gates (or 2 Gate Robo, though I've had better luck with 3 Gates) at around 14 units, along with a probe for a proxy pylon. It depends on the map, of course, but you can get lucky sometimes and Force Field the ramp to prevent reinforcements, usually leading to a win. They need at LEAST one Spine Crawler to defend, 2 against better players.
mescalineeyes
Banned
mescalineeyes
Banned
Q8D3vil said:
Scrap station is one of the most balanced maps :lol
Q8D3vil said:
2 rax all-in. I mean I know this is not a replay but I mean it should be easy to go from here.
lol at scrap stationmescalineeyes said:
i need to start laddering again but i don't have time between this college, job and watching gsl after returning home tired.
i laddered like hell last week because we had 1 week national holiday and its not going to happen any time soon :/
mescalineeyes
Banned
Q8D3vil said:
oh shoot, I was wondering where you had gone.
TheRagnCajun
Member
Feep said:I am on an absolute TEAR through gold right now. I've won 21 out of my last 28 ladder matches, and on a seven game win streak. My last glorious victory was against a well-executed 6-pool on Scrap Station (wide ramp), which used to cause me so much grief in Bronze and Silver I wanted to shoot myself. Oh sweet glory.
I'm regularly beating Platinums on this winning streak. I can TASTE my promotion.
Gratz!!!
I've been constantly rofflestomping bronze league but no promo yet. The only race I loose to is Zerg and its only 50% of the time...and when I do loose its always cause of mass mutalisks. I feel like there's an 18 minute timer on TvZ games =P
mescalineeyes
Banned
TheRagnCajun said:
stimmed marines and rocket towers in your eco say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
TheRagnCajun
Member
mescalineeyes said:
How many towers does it take to protect 2-3 mineral lines, plus your buildings in your main? How many marines does it take for back up in all those places? plus enough marines to defend your army? maybe at the 10 minute mark it isn't that bad but later on it becomes a huge investment. The problem is Terran can't chase mutalisks, so you have to put up static defences everywhere thats important to you. Thats expensive. Thats a lot of resources (and supply) sitting still for preventative measures.
For the record, I think siege tanks are pretty OP'ed too compared to what Zerg has to counter, so it sort of evens out. Its just after so much time, no amount of tanks is going to make up for mass mutalisks poking holes in your defences and wiping out expansions.
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