Support NeoGAF

[fanboi]

I don't think the infestor needs a nerf. I think protoss needs to find a way to be able to secure/defend a third easier to stay up in economy (also feel this vs. terran) - and maybe that needs a patch to happen, maybe not -, but its really slight between PvZ being hard right now, and ZvP being fucking impossible if the blink stalker/archon/templar composition is able to be much more easily reached and protoss players hit their feedbacks.

Terran have the answer to infestors already with tank/marine/ghost and really good ways to limit zerg economy/PFs to secure their own.

Just throw down cannons, with some units, done.

Also against P, at least for me, it feels like doing burrow infestors + infested marines is very volotile since you have something that is invisible and detect burrow units...

 

[mescalineeyes]

But DPS has increased, easier to FG again

oh shit, you are absolutely right of course. I stand corrected.

 

[Pandaman]

Also, Infestors do not need to Siege up. They just hit and run. Let us not compare the two. If we ONLY look at the damage, Siege tanks are way better. They can be stacked (unlike fungals), they fire "freely", their range is superior (or can be).

But then... let us look at other stuff too.
Infestors are WAAY more mobile.
Infestors can burrow.
Infestors can summon ranged attackers.
Infestors can hurt mass AIR units.

Imagine Siege tanks that would be able to aoe-shoot at mutalisks. And run away if needed, without unsiege time. Now, that is Infestors.

tanks arent the only seige unit in the game.

tanks:
-immobile
+extreme range
+efficient fire
+cheap
+fast tech
-friendly aoe

colossus:
+mobile
-/+long range
+cliff walk
-expensive
+decent health
-dedicated techpath

infestor:
+mobile
+burrow
-medium range
-no regular attack
+caster
-fragile
+AA

--

No matter how imbalanced pvz might be, infestors cannot be nerfed. they are too important to the extremely fragile 'balance' of zvt and even with them Z struggles. any ZvP solution, if neccasary, must come from a protoss buff.

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

DOTA 2 straight into mah VEINS! I'll be playing the titties out of it when I can. This and Diablo 3 are probably going to be my go to cocaine games.

Probably more like heroin, but yes. Absofuckinglutely.

 

[fanboi]

tanks arent the only seige unit in the game.

tanks:
-immobile
+extreme range
+efficient fire
+cheap
+fast tech
-friendly aoe

colossus:
+mobile
-/+long range
+cliff walk
-expensive
+decent health
-dedicated techpath

infestor:
+mobile
+burrow
-medium range
-no regular attack
+caster
-fragile
+AA

Eeee how can long range be -? You mean the upgrade? Because they are "ok" without it.

 

[Pandaman]

Eeee how can long range be -? You mean the upgrade? Because they are "ok" without it.

because its not endangered like the infestor by general engagements [+] but also not nearly as safe as a tank. [-] comparatively.

i felt like like giving both the tank and colossus a + for range wouldn't properly highlight the power of tank range.

 

[fanboi]

because its not endangered like the infestor by general engagements [+] but also not nearly as safe as a tank. [-] comparatively.

i felt like like giving both the tank and colossus a + for range wouldn't properly highlight the power of tank range.

Ah.

I see.

 

[zoukka]

sure, why don't we?
fun fact: Infestors have done the same amount of damage to marines since day 1. the buff doesn't apply.

omg you are already forgetting your heritage. The DPS buff is enormous because medivacs don't have time to heal shit now between fungals.

It's not uncommon for infestors to just chain-fungal even when tanks are shelling them. That wasn't possible before the buff.


And I don't necessarily mean that infestors are too OP. But when a unit is so good, that you feel bad playing any other unit comp then something is wrong. Mass infestor used to be fun when it was underground etc...

 

[zoukka]

any ZvP solution, if neccasary, must come from a protoss buff.

give frenzied status to archons

(i kiid)

[zomg sorry about the douple derp]

 

[Pandaman]

as someone who actually used infestor oriented builds in prepatch zvt, i can say that while the dps boost was huge, there were ways to kill things on 8second fungals.

for one, the ability to stop tanks from seiging for 8 seconds was kind of a big deal.

 

[zoukka]

as someone who actually used infestor oriented builds in prepatch zvt, i can say that while the dps boost was huge, there were ways to kill things on 8second fungals.

for one, the ability to stop tanks from seiging for 8 seconds was kind of a big deal.

Yes as a player who used infestors all the time before the buff, I can say they were great. Now they are forcefields.

 

[Pandaman]

Yes as a player who used infestors all the time before the buff, I can say they were great. Now they are forcefields.

neccasary for balance? yea, sounds about right.

 

[FieryBalrog]

The correct answer is the lurker.

That shit better be in come HotS.

Then you can nerf fungal all you want (I play Protoss now anyway but I will always have a soft spot for my SC1 race of choice).

 

[TheThunder]

Xeris caught being full of shit... again

 

[zoukka]

neccasary for balance? yea, sounds about right.

No it doesn't for zerg.

 

[hamchan]

Xeris caught being full of shit... again

So much drama!

 

[syllogism]

Xeris caught being full of shit... again

Yes, i'm sure all the teams independently reached the same conclusion, despite signing contracts and having their players participate in qualifiers and such.

The teams/SC2con are lying or there's still some miscommunication going on

 

[Dooraven]

Esports drama weekend ugh,

 

[TheThunder]

Yes, i'm sure all the teams independently reached the same conclusion, despite signing contracts and having their players participate in qualifiers and such.

FXOBoss conformed that sC didn't want to play and he just gave the finger to sc2con.

I'm not defending sc2con btw, they might be run by idiots but Xeris will always be full of shit and nothing that comes out of him should be taken at face value.

 

[MrKnives]

There is more drama in Starcraft II than there is in the bold and the beautiful

 

[IceMarker]

There is more drama in Starcraft II than there is in the bold and the beautiful

Drama and video games just makes me laugh, I mean of all the things to inject that crap into...

 

[mescalineeyes]

Drama and video games just makes me laugh, I mean of all the things to inject that crap into...

if you say so, mister manager.

 

[Won]

Xeris caught being full of shit... again

I don't know the exact dynamic that is going on in Korea right now. However, what I do know is that it was (apparently) a collective decision of Korean teams. My first draft had written "SC2 Korean Team Committee." In an effort to not write that every time, I wrote SC2Con upon learning that SC2Con was a committee of the Korean teams.

Omg, that's amazing.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Delicious Esports drama and tears.

if you say so, mister manager.

We just say manager.

 

[hamchan]

Wait Moonglade left FXO and I didn't know about it. :-/

Too much damn news.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

Why would a Protoss have problems with infested terrans at their 3rd? Could they not put up some cannons to stop them? Zerg have to put up spore and spine crawlers when they go DTs. Also, infestors are really the best unit the zerg have. Any nerf to them would be a pretty hard blow.

 

[mescalineeyes]

We just say manager.

but you just said...

 

[V_Arnold]

AD...never forget. Best show ever.

 

[mescalineeyes]

SAVE THE BLUTHS!

 

[Holden]

Why would a Protoss have problems with infested terrans at their 3rd? Could they not put up some cannons to stop them? Zerg have to put up spore and spine crawlers when they go DTs. Also, infestors are really the best unit the zerg have. Any nerf to them would be a pretty hard blow.

cannons, relly dont fix the infested terran problem, 32 marines kill 4 cannons + nexus pretty easily.

 

[Tntnnbltn]

but you just said...

Never mind who.

 

[Corran Horn]

Drama and video games just makes me laugh, I mean of all the things to inject that crap into...

kinda like raging out and quitting the game when another person is trolling you.

 

[mescalineeyes]

cannons, relly dont fix the infested terran problem, 32 marines kill 4 cannons + nexus pretty easily.

it buys you time to go there and take care of it.

 

[Holden]

it buys you time to go there and take care of it.

kind hard to take care of it when its also hapening at you're main.

vs terran, 16 marines ( 8 in you're 3rd, 8 in ur main). You can take care of that but 32 in you're 3rd and an other 32 in your main. And the fact that those marines will either kill building for the cost of MANA or kill a part of your army for the cost of mana also. So basicly, when a zerg's drop infested terran, a zerg player will automacly be cost efficient ( Killing building or units )

oh and if zerg get +3 atk range, its fighting marine with +5 atk

 

[mescalineeyes]

so that's 2x4 infestors with drop tech dropped in 2 bases at the same time, all with full energy.

how do you let it come to that? do you not see how retarded of a problem it is you are having?
I mean at that point you should be able to basetrade with the zerg since his army will be hapless lacking 8 infestors.

 

[Holden]

so that's 2x4 infestors with drop tech dropped in 2 bases at the same time, all with full energy.

how do you let it come to that? do you not see how retarded of a problem it is you are having?
I mean at that point you should be able to basetrade with the zerg since his army will be hapless lacking 8 infestors.

i can easily have 8 hightemps in my main army when im on 3-4 bases, and zerg can EASILY HAVE 8 infestors drop since the other half of their goddamn army is LINGS that cost 0 gas

and i ve seen many times destiny do double infestor drop in korean master ladder in zvz and zvp

pretty sure in the video that was posted a while ago of destiny on a zvz on shattered temple he had duo drops.

 

[mescalineeyes]

i can easily have 8 hightemps in my main army when im on 3-4 bases, and zerg can EASILY HAVE 8 infestors drop since the other half of their goddamn army is LINGS that cost 0 gas

yes, but now substract those units from his army. you should be able to beat him easily, no?

 

[Holden]

yes, but now substract those units from his army. you should be able to beat him easily, no?

no.

it might be easier, but the fact is that you know that you have no backup army ( or a small army ). And when you fight a 200/200 its not like 184 vs 200 is a big diffrence especially vs zerg

 

[Keikaku]

yes, but now substract those units from his army. you should be able to beat him easily, no?

You fool! You're having a balance discussion with Holden?? He won't let anyone stop him from QQing over anything and everything at the drop of a hat! Leave now and speak not of this dark time, lest your mind be driven to madness.

In other news:

This is the last day to get your matches for the NEOGAF SUMMER INVITATIONAL out of the way. Do it or I'll have to make Panda the winner by default as his game is the only one that got resolved.

 

[Pandaman]

yes.

holden also forgets he can place the cannons so that they cover the edge and not the nexus to thwart the entire drop.

 

[Holden]

You fool! You're having a balance discussion with Holden?? He won't let anyone stop him from QQing over anything and everything at the drop of a hat! Leave now and speak not of this dark time, lest your mind be driven to madness.

f you, all i do is rage after a lost then i react normelly ( cause i know i lost cause i play like shit ), and i dont complain like 99% of ppl about fungal. I just find it goddamn retarded that i have to play pvz and pvt at the same time

yes.

holden also forgets he can place the cannons so that they cover the edge and not the nexus to thwart the entire drop.

thats alot of cannons t.t

pretty sure most games we played including games where u didn't drop i dont make many cannons ( 2 per base ) at the end you'll always end up winning a macro game with 10k in ur bank while im with 0/0 its kinda hard to afford cannons late game vs zerg

and if you build ur cannons at the edge, what is gonna defend you from lings??? oh its true i play as zerg and i can afford 50 cannons

 

[mescalineeyes]

no.

it might be easier, but the fact is that you know that you have no backup army ( or a small army ). And when you fight a 200/200 its not like 184 vs 200 is a big diffrence especially vs zerg

well he is missing 8 infestors... that's quite an investment... add droptech to that and well... I don't think things are as grim as you think.

 

[Holden]

well he is missing 8 infestors... that's quite an investment... add droptech to that and well... I don't think things are as grim as you think.

dont fucking tell me that droptech actually makes you behind? protoss has to get like 1 upr per unit it gets, just like every goddamn race.

 

[Keikaku]

dont fucking tell me that droptech actually makes you behind? protoss has to get like 1 upr per unit it gets, just like every goddamn race.

Drop tech requires 2 upgrades to be viable and I'm not counting going to Lair since Zerg has to do that anyway.

I'd say that if you let them spend 300/300 and 3 minutes upgrading drop tech without pressuring them even a little bit or not getting a hint of what's happening you might be the one at fault.

 

[Pandaman]

thats alot of cannons t.t

pretty sure most games we played including games where u didn't drop i dont make many cannons ( 2 per base )

so scout if im getting drop.

why else are three hatches wiggling on lair tech?

 

[mescalineeyes]

dont fucking tell me that droptech actually makes you behind? protoss has to get like 1 upr per unit it gets, just like every goddamn race.

I am not saying it gets you behind, all I am saying is that it is an investment that goes into something other than fighting units. drops that expensive remove a very substantial part of your army and I think that if that drop does happen to you and you feel you can't do anything against it, you might as well try and just "go fucking kill him".

... same as if you scout a zerg going Spire tech right after Lair.

 

[Pandaman]

burrow.

hence three.
burrow, speed, drop.

 

[mescalineeyes]

hence three.
burrow, speed, drop.

I am sorry man,I noticed the three too late. edited the post.

 

[Holden]

so scout if im getting drop.

why else are three hatches wiggling on lair tech?

i can scout that and built 10 cannons, 10 cannons isn't enough to block all drop posibilities and thats worth 1500. So im gambling to win time?

 

[Pandaman]

i can scout that and built 10 cannons, 10 cannons isn't enough to block all drop posibilities and thats worth 1500. So im gambling to win time?

yes? thats petty much why you do most things in starcraft.