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[ultron87]

I hope that ramp vision thing makes PvP better. It always really angers me when you hit a forcefield on a ramp slightly wrong and allow a zealot to squeeze in just high enough to warp all his friends in.

 

[Karl2177]

Are we seriously worrying about countering HYDRAS as terran? I mean come on, what doesn't counter hydras? Don't make mass vikings and you're fine.

ROFL. I did that once and I won. 3-3 Vikings landed maul hydra. Admittedly it was in a 4v4, but the fun was still had.

 

[zoukka]

Excellent changes, except the blue flame upgrade. What a populistic nerf.

And its an end of a horrible era now that the infestor is gone from imbaville. Also overseer buff makes me so happy.

 

[cdyhybrid]

ROFL. I did that once and I won. 3-3 Vikings landed maul hydra. Admittedly it was in a 4v4, but the fun was still had.

Hydra needs damage buffed to double confirmed.

 

[fanboi]

Are we seriously worrying about countering HYDRAS as terran? I mean come on, what doesn't counter hydras? Don't make mass vikings and you're fine.

I lost to Won with mass vikings in the beta

Mass hydra vs mass vikings.... not a pretty sight

 

[Pancakes]

Landed vikings are rarely a pretty sight.

 

[-COOLIO-]

come to think of it, zealots are really gunna be a bitch too

 

[zoukka]

Hydra needs damage buffed to double confirmed.

So Hydras in Beta.

 

[Corran Horn]

Better chance I wont get raped by 4 gate pylons on my ramp? Cool.

 

[Pandaman]

Needing a 15 hatch doesn't mean it should be super easy. Same argument...

15 hatch has never been super easy, I have practice partners in the top 500 in na who swear up in down I'm crazy as balls for not gas/pooling.

but if it ever happens, I'll let you know.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Hydra needs damage buffed to double confirmed.

Yeah, hydras are seriously lame, but that's a battle best reserved for another patch.

 

[Q8D3vil]

thoughts

PROTOSS
Immortal
Attack range increased from 5 to 6.
wtf blizzard, imba buff.
i kid i kid, its a good buff and will help pvz alot since immortals will be effective now against roaches.


Mothership
Acceleration increased from 0.3 to 1.375.
The Mothership’s Cloaking Field no longer cloaks all units instantaneously, but rather adds units to the cloak field over time (maximum of 25 per second). This should alleviate “Mothership Lag” issue when a Mothership comes online.
strange


Stalker
Blink research time increased from 110 to 140.
idra must be laughing right now.


Warp Prism
Shields increased from 40 to 100.
agree but they should add gas cost to it like 150/50


TERRAN
Barracks
Build time increased from 60 to 65.
the fuck?

Hellion
Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5.
fair, since i can still 2 shot lings


Raven
Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.
decent

ZERG
Infestor
Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored).
not enough

Overseer
Morph cost decreased from 50/100 to 50/50.
Contaminate energy cost increased from 75 to 125.
good buff


Ultralisk
Build time decreased from 70 to 55.
fuck no

 

[Dooraven]

Just realised that the HSM buff makes it faster than Vikings now. :O TvT is going to change a huge amount. Also HSM is going be much more effective v muta flocks now.

idra must be laughing right now.

No he's not lol, him and panda were complaining about the blink cooldown/speed of stalkers. I said that the only reason why zergs were dying to this was due to a timing (and that they always build roaches). Guess which one got Nerfed?

 

[zoukka]

Hydras are usable in certain situations. But the composition where you get hydras is really hard to balance. Their cost/hp ratio is horrendous so if you have just a little too few tanking units, your whole army can fall like a house of cards.

I'm actually a bit surprised Blizz hasn't tried Hydras with less dps and more hp in any patch. You can't just give the current Hydra more speed or damage, they would be completely broken.

 

[Pandaman]

Just realised that the HSM buff makes it faster than Vikings now. :O TvT is going to change a huge amount. Also HSM is going be much more effective v muta flocks now.

yea, the zerg has 0.26 seconds less time to react and then fly away. i dont think it'll be a big deal.

 

[Q8D3vil]

wtf, i just realized that the infestor was buffed too.
fucking blizzard.

 

[MrKnives]

Why Q8D3vil doesn't like the Ultralisk change? Are you afraid they actually might be somewhat usefell (probably still not)
It took fucking ages to make ultras before. I'm just happy if this means I might see then in a pro game.

Blizzard really wants to make Infestors to kill armored units Now they are less useful vs T but even better vs P. Not sure if good or bad really.

 

[Striek]

I hope that ramp vision thing makes PvP better. It always really angers me when you hit a forcefield on a ramp slightly wrong and allow a zealot to squeeze in just high enough to warp all his friends in.

I find that even if they forcefield the bottom of the ramp you can still warp onto the ramp itself with the first zealot and then the next 3 on top of the ramp into the base.


Edit:

Blizzard really wants to make Infestors to kill armored units Now they are less useful vs T but even better vs P. Not sure if good or bad really.

They got a nerf to armored as well as non-armored. They do 47dmg to armored currently. Which is waaaaaaaaay too much.

 

[Q8D3vil]

Why Q8D3vil doesn't like the Ultralisk change? Are you afraid they actually might be somewhat usefell (probably still not)
It took fucking ages to make ultras before. I'm just happy if this means I might see then in a pro game.

Blizzard really wants to make Infestors to kill armored units Now they are less useful vs T but even better vs P. Not sure if good or bad really.

tier 3 unuits paired up with infestors are imbalance as fuck.
ultra + lings+ infestors = the mobile deathball

 

[Dooraven]

yea, the zerg has 0.26 seconds less time to react and then fly away. i dont think it'll be a big deal.

You do realise that if the HSM gets within 2 range of the mutas it instant hits right? Dosen't matter if you pull them away. But yeah it may not be huge deal, though it could be useful for zoning mutas via a push etc.

wtf, i just realized that the infestor was buffed too.
fucking blizzard.

If you count the Neural Parasite stuff then yeah.

 

[MrKnives]

tier 3 unuits paired up with infestors are imbalance as fuck.
ultra + lings+ infestors = the mobile deathball

Ultras paired with something good is just less sad, not imbalance as fuck. Can I assume that if the Zerg manages to make Ultras and Infestors you have something more than just marine tank?
Gas cost-wise that would be like Terrans equivelant of Thor Ghost? Actually Ultra Infestor is even more gas than that.

 

[Dooraven]

Some stuff about Fungal:


Right now fungal

2 shot rins without shilds
2 shot rins with shields
3 shot maruaders
3 shot Vikings

5 shot zelots
4 shot stalkers
5 shot voids

Post patch if it changed like in the op

New fungal

2 shot rins without shields
2 shot rins with shields
4 shot maruaders
4 shot Vikings

5 shot zelots
4 shot stalkers
7 shot voids

The Void/Viking buff is actually pretty big IMO to counter the BL infestor combo.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Ultras paired with something good is just less sad, not imbalance as fuck. Can I assume that if the Zerg manages to make Ultras and Infestors you have something more than just marine tank?
Gas cost-wise that would be like Terrans equivelant of Thor Ghost? Actually Ultra Infestor is even more gas than that.

Everything must be balanced against Terran players who only know how to build marines marauders medivacs and tanks.

 

[Q8D3vil]

Ultras paired with something good is just less sad, not imbalance as fuck. Can I assume that if the Zerg manages to make Ultras and Infestors you have something more than just marine tank?
Gas cost-wise that would be like Terrans equivelant of Thor Ghost? Actually Ultra Infestor is even more gas than that.

if i have an eco lead i may be able to stop it.
most zergs suicide ultra into your base when they get them then bitch about how bad the units is.
it doesnt work this way, because ultra are mobile unit and you can use to deny expansion and containing the terran (ultra are really really good against pfs too).

infestors + ultra are really good if you can caught an army out of position.

 

[MrKnives]

Some stuff about Fungal:


Right now fungal

2 shot rins without shilds
2 shot rins with shields
3 shot maruaders
3 shot Vikings

5 shot zelots
4 shot stalkers
5 shot voids

Post patch if it changed like in the op

New fungal

2 shot rins without shields
2 shot rins with shields
4 shot maruaders
4 shot Vikings

5 shot zelots
4 shot stalkers
7 shot voids

The Void/Viking buff is actually pretty big IMO to counter the BL infestor combo.

Arent Vikings and Void rays armored? And Stalker. And marauders?

 

[Pandaman]

wtf, i just realized that the infestor was buffed too.
fucking blizzard.

...
no it wasnt.

 

[Dooraven]

Arent Vikings and Void rays armored? And Stalker. And marauders?

Yeah they nerfed the damaged from 47 v Armored to 40.

 

[MrKnives]

if i have an eco lead i may be able to stop it.
most zergs suicide ultra into your base when they get them then bitch about how bad the units is.
it doesnt work this way, because ultra are mobile unit and you can use to deny expansion and containing the terran (ultra are really really good against pfs too).

infestors + ultra are really good if you can caught an army out of position.

Well most Terrans continue to make Marines against mass infestors and then whine and bitch about it.

And with the bolded part you are saying that Terran has to make a mistake to Zerg to win

 

[Dooraven]

...
no it wasnt.

Well aspects of the Neural Parasite was buffed but yeah, not really something to write home about.

 

[MrKnives]

Yeah they nerfed the damaged from 47 v Armored to 40.

Oh I just quickly read that. Sneaky blizzard

Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored).

Thought they actually buffed the vs Armored.
What the hell is Devil whining about then? Do we have to make that unit completely useless before it's ok?

 

[-COOLIO-]

ultras really didnt need that buff, i could have a shitload of bcs and banshees and still get all of my production wiped out by a zerg just pumping ultras

 

[-COOLIO-]

Oh I just quickly read that. Sneaky blizzard



Thought they actually buffed the vs Armored.
What the hell is Devil whining about then? Do we have to make that unit completely useless before it's ok?

mass infestors are straight OP

 

[Pandaman]

Well aspects of the Neural Parasite was buffed but yeah, not really something to write home about.

i guess if i lose all my overlords i can now neural all his overlords to supply block him and allow me to build at the same time!
genius!

 

[MrKnives]

ultras really didnt need that buff, i could have a shitload of bcs and banshees and still get all of my production wiped out by a zerg just pumping ultras

Maybe that was the problem in the first place?

 

[Q8D3vil]

ultras really didnt need that buff, i could have a shitload of bcs and banshees and still get all of my production wiped out by a zerg just pumping ultras

my terran bro understand me

i actually tried banshee and bc's against ultra and it didn't work because their build time is ridiculous compared to the zerg ability to mass unit (just saying that ultra can't be countered by air not saying anything about imbalance).

 

[Dooraven]

i guess if i lose all my overlords i can now neural all his overlords to supply block him and allow me to build at the same time!
genius!

Think outside of ZvZ lol. Neuralling a Colossus for instant will give you whatever upgrades the protoss has instead of 0-0. It's a slight buff but I think Infestors overall got nerfed pretty decently.

 

[Pandaman]

Think outside of ZvZ lol. Neuralling a Colossus for instant will give you whatever upgrades the protoss has instead of 0-0. It's a slight buff but I think Infestors overall got nerfed pretty decently.

a change so significant nobody even noticed the upgrades were gone. >_>

i guess zealot/archon will suffer from it tho. dont they get absurd bonus damage vs light with upgrades?

 

[Dooraven]

a change so significant nobody even noticed the upgrades were gone. >_>

lol, I did say it was nothing to write home about.

Yeah Archons get absurd attack with upgrades v biological (not light)

(they get +3 per upgrade and then +1 per upgrade for their bonus damage, so +4 v biological overall)

Also I can't believe that you guys are complaining about ultras >_<

 

[-COOLIO-]

Maybe that was the problem in the first place?

what exactly is the problem?

 

[Dooraven]

what exactly is the problem?

You going banshees against ultras?

 

[Q8D3vil]

what exactly is the problem?

air to ground doesn't counter ground to ground.

 

[-COOLIO-]

air to ground doesn't counter ground to ground.

in my experience it does with everything except ultras.

if a banshee doesnt counter ground to ground, then what does it counter exactly? not ground to air, and definitely not air.

 

[Dooraven]

in my experience it does with everything except ultras

That's basically cause banshees have a high rate of fire and a low base attack - so +5 armour is going to dent thier dps heavily.

Honestly, just go Marauders.

 

[-COOLIO-]

That's basically cause banshees have a high rate of fire and a low base attack - so +5 armour is going to dent them heavily.

Honestly, just go Marauders.

true, and oh so disgusting. it's even worse with bcs. bleh

 

[MrKnives]

what exactly is the problem?

Battlecruisers and banshees as your main army is not good. Post a replay, let us see how the games went.

No way you got overrunned by ultras against bc banshee unless you didnt harass at all the whole game and were actually doing only bc's and banshees.

Come on.. "I lost to ultras doing bc banshee". Who does that?

in my experience it does with everything except ultras.

if a banshee doesnt counter ground to ground, then what does it counter exactly? not ground to air, and definitely not air.

Ever tried to harass with it? I heard it's good

Edit: Also if this is just to counter Ultras then why not just make marauders, they destroy ultras. Don't try to tech switch to keep up with Zergs tech switching. You have raxes, just use them. Dont start making 6 starports if you see ultras.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Battlecruisers and banshees as your main army is not good. Post a replay, let us see how the games went.

No way you got overrunned by ultras against bc banshee unless you didnt harass at all the whole game and were actually doing only bc's and banshees.

Come on.. "I lost to ultras doing bc banshee". Who does that?



Ever tried to harass with it? I heard it's good

no unit in this game has exactly one purpose

and the game i remember this happening in was lt, i think we both had half the map and then he just kept running ults in. it was a whiiiiiiile ago.

"Come on.. "I lost to ultras doing bc banshee". Who does that?"

we're discussing it. saying "i lost to x doing y. who does that?" is pointless

 

[Dooraven]

no unit in this game has exactly one purpose

and the game i remember this happening in was lt, i think we both had half the map and then he just kept running ults in. it was a whiiiiiiile ago.

"Come on.. "I lost to ultras doing bc banshee". Who does that?"

we're discussing it. saying "i lost to x doing y. who does that?" is pointless

What units did he have, was it just Ultras and lings? Because if so, you can lift your buildings ><

 

[zoukka]

If you go banshee BC, lings are your worst nightmare, not Ultras.

 

[-COOLIO-]

What units did he have, was it just Ultras and lings? Because if so, you can lift your buildings ><

youll lose the game

 

[Dooraven]

youll lose the game

If he tech switches yup. But honestly did have only have Ultras and lings?