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[-COOLIO-]

air aside, the rate at which at rampaging ultra army could be remacro'd was already good enough and pretty damning.

 

[-COOLIO-]

If he tech switches yup. But honestly did have only have Ultras and lings?

ive been ultra overun a ton of times, usually its just ultra and lings yeah

 

[MrKnives]

no unit in this game has exactly one purpose

and the game i remember this happening in was lt, i think we both had half the map and then he just kept running ults in. it was a whiiiiiiile ago.

"Come on.. "I lost to ultras doing bc banshee". Who does that?"

we're discussing it. saying "i lost to x doing y. who does that?" is pointless

The shittines of your army composition is not pointless if you are trying to argue how powerful ultras are. Make units that kill them and they won't seem so strong.

There is a lot of units in SC2 that are focused on one thing. They just can be used for other things too. Banshees harass well and is ok in your army but not great, less so lategame. Dt's harass and take map control, then the best you can hope is make archons from them.
But even if you think they are equally viable as a harass unit or a fighting unit, they are not as good vs everything.

Why were you going bc's in that situation? Without seeing the game the best guess I can give is that you started massing bc's and he just overrunned you before you had any sort of critical mass.

 

[Dooraven]

ive been ultra overun a ton of times, usually its just ultra and lings yeah

Hmm, considering you had BCs wouldn't Yamato be incredibly useful? It does 300 damage to an Ultra which is 3/5s of thier health gone instantly.

 

[zoukka]

ive been ultra overun a ton of times, usually its just ultra and lings yeah

Well that's you failing then. Tank lines with decent MMM ball will demolish Ultra/ling if they don't have fungals to pin your mmm. You can also make bruu flaim if you feel lings are too much to handle.

 

[Q8D3vil]

hopefully they don't nerf rax build time, its so stupid.

 

[MrKnives]

I still can't believe we are arguing on if Ultras are overpowered now because your battlecruisers couldnt kill them even prepatch.

 

[-COOLIO-]

The shittines of your army composition is not pointless if you are trying to argue how powerful ultras are. Make units that kill them and they won't seem so strong.

There is a lot of units in SC2 that are focused on one thing. They just can be used for other things too. Banshees harass well and is ok in your army but not great, less so lategame. Dt's harass and take map control, then the best you can hope is make archons from them.
But even if you think they are equally viable as a harass unit or a fighting unit, they are not as good vs everything.

Why were you going bc's in that situation? Without seeing the game the best guess I can give is that you started massing bc's and he just overrunned you before you had any sort of critical mass.

the statement is pointless in a discussion.

"who does that" is needlessly condescending, grow up.

im taking about a game from a while ago, i cant remember the details, personally, i think banshees and bcs should be able to put down rampaging ultras but i guess thats just me. regardless, i feel ultras are remarcro'd fast enough as is, air composition or not.

 

[Haunted]

holy shit those patch notes

this is a big one

I see more Motherships, more Ultras and more Ravens in the future of the game, which just means fuck yeah.


edit: that is if most of these make it through the PTR testing, obviously.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Well that's you failing then. Tank lines with decent MMM ball will demolish Ultra/ling if they don't have fungals to pin your mmm. You can also make bruu flaim if you feel lings are too much to handle.

air isnt my weapon of choice but i feel it should be more viabile if i happen to have to go with that. the last time i was ultra overun i was mech. do i have trouble with ultra spam right now yeah? do i think its imba? not really. do i think the 55 second build time makes things a lot worse though? yeah it probably will

 

[zoukka]

air isnt my weapon of choice but i feel it should be more viabile if i happen to have to go with that. the last time i was ultra overun i was mech. do i have trouble with ultra spam right now yeah? do i think its imba? not really. do i think the 55 second build time makes things a lot worse though? yeah it probably will

Mass air doesn't work for any race in serious 1v1 games. And you can't combat lings without splash.

Also Ultras becoming "trouble" for you in the future is a good thing. They are a joke in so many situations now.

Maybe we can see Ultras in zvz also. The long build time made them so bad against fast roach armies.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I died to mass Marauders when I went mass Phoenix. Nerf Marauders!

 

[-COOLIO-]

Mass air doesn't work for any race in serious 1v1 games. And you can't combat lings without splash.

Also Ultras becoming "trouble" for you in the future is a good thing. They are a joke in so many situations now.

Maybe we can see Ultras in zvz also. The long build time made them so bad against fast roach armies.

maybe but i have a hard time thinking of ultra transitions in pro games that didnt work out

 

[AdventureRacing]

maybe but i have a hard time thinking of ultra transitions in pro games that didnt work out

Okay this is total bullshit. Most times when i see pro zergs going ultra it loses them the game. Their is a reason you don't see ultras very often.

Also your whole argument doesn't make sense to me. If i go for mass burrowed roach and get countered by mass marauder i don't ask for a marauder nerf i simply transtion into a better unit composition or play smarter.

Even then i don't think there are many situations in any match ups where ultras are actually good.

Edit:The only time pros really win with ultras they are so far ahead they could have won with anything. Ultras are just a way to finish the match.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Okay this is total bullshit. Most times when i see pro zergs going ultra it loses them the game. Their is a reason you don't see ultras very often.

Also your whole argument doesn't make sense to me. If i go for mass burrowed roach and get countered by mass marauder i don't ask for a marauder nerf i simply transtion into a better unit composition or play smarter.

Even then i don't think there are many situations in any match ups where ultras are actually good.

Edit:The only time pros really win with ultras they are so far ahead they could have won with anything. Ultras are just a way to finish the match.

not what im saying. of course the game needs counters, but air vs ultras aught to be viabile in my opinion, but if the game of starcraft says otherwise, so be it. it wasnt even the crux of my complaint.

 

[nitric0]

Finally can start using Warp Prisms without worrying about it dying so quickly

 

[fanboi]

Ultras will only now be viable as a timing build (if even then) because they are still as bad... usually atleast.

 

[Q8D3vil]

maybe but i have a hard time thinking of ultra transitions in pro games that didnt work out

dimaga used to do wonders with ultra infestors

but he switched to bl infestors because they are more imbalance.

 

[-COOLIO-]

dimaga used to do wonders with ultra infestors
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/images/2011/august/dimagahl.jpg[IMG]
but he switched to bl infestors because they are more imbalance.[/QUOTE]
i remember the same with spinishiwa but maybe im hazy

 

[Dooraven]

Ultras will only now be viable as a timing build (if even then) because they are still as bad... usually atleast.

Timing build with ultras?

 

[Holden]

"Fixed an issue where Drone attacks could be more easily dodged than SCV or Probes."

lol i guess panda can stop whining about that

but ya, this patch is a dream come true :O

 

[Dooraven]

"Fixed an issue where Drone attacks could be more easily dodged than SCV or Probes."

lol i guess panda can stop whining about that

but ya, this patch is a dream come true :O

Nearly, I still want to see a couple of slight tweeks to HT speed or feedback but yeah this patch is pretty good. I don't really like the additional 5 seconds for the barracks but that's probably due to the fact that 2 rax maybe a tad too risk/reward efficient.

 

[MrKnives]

the statement is pointless in a discussion.

"who does that" is needlessly condescending, grow up.

im taking about a game from a while ago, i cant remember the details, personally, i think banshees and bcs should be able to put down rampaging ultras but i guess thats just me. regardless, i feel ultras are remarcro'd fast enough as is, air composition or not.

Saying grow up doesnt make you the mature one here. I am sorry to tell you but it does matter how good you are and the fact you think mass air is the best counter to ultras makes me question your skill. No offence.

Most of the games when pro's win with ultras is after they already broken the terran with Broodlords and then just do the killing blow with ultras.
Only one who I have actually use ultras succesfully is Dimaga.

 

[Holden]

i relly don't think that this patch will end up like this, like the warpprism buff is pretty fucking huge.

so keikaku, i heard i don't know how to argue about balanace? apparently fucking david kim is my side.

nice to see mothership a speed buff, cause when i go carriers late game i never go mothership cause its way to slow

 

[fanboi]

Timing build with ultras?

Yes! Would be awesome to get them quick while P cant counter it well or T!

 

[Pandaman]

not what im saying. of course the game needs counters, but air vs ultras aught to be viabile in my opinion, but if the game of starcraft says otherwise, so be it. it wasnt even the crux of my complaint.

you'd have to be derping pretty hard to think BC's would counter ultras...

they're the worst unit you could possibly build.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Saying grow up doesnt make you the mature one here. I am sorry to tell you but it does matter how good you are and the fact you think mass air is the best counter to ultras makes me question your skill. No offence.

Most of the games when pro's win with ultras is after they already broken the terran with Broodlords and then just do the killing blow with ultras.
Only one who I have actually use ultras succesfully is Dimaga.

awesome, we'll play sometime when we're both in the gaf channel. till then.

 

[V_Arnold]

Oh, nothing feels better to wake up to an awesome PTR change note and then read about how GAF terrans complain about banshee/BC not viable against Ultralisks.

Stay free, stay free.

 

[Holden]

"Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1."

is this gonna stop the 4gate bullshit with the forcefield?

 

[Dooraven]

nice to see mothership a speed buff, cause when i go carriers late game i never go mothership cause its way to slow

Not a speed buff, acceleration buff.

I like Blizzard buffing "bad" units like BCs or Ultras. Hopefully we get a Carrier time reduction soon ^^

"Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1."

is this gonna stop the 4gate bullshit with the forcefield?

Hopefully.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Oh, nothing feels better to wake up to an awesome PTR change note and then read about how GAF terrans complain about banshee/BC not viable against Ultralisks.

Stay free, stay free.

plural? just me man

 

[V_Arnold]

plural? just me man

Just you? Devil also reacted to Ultra buff badly
Of course he is Devil, it is kinda expected, but still

 

[Holden]

Not a speed buff, acceleration buff.

I like Blizzard buffing "bad" units like BCs or Ultras. Hopefully we get a Carrier time reduction soon ^^



Hopefully.

no carriers doesn't need a buff, late game carriers in pvp and pvt is insanely good, i just drop down 5 stargate pump out carriers nonestop and just roll him with mass carrier + zealot

 

[V_Arnold]

Also, will now Ravens be viable against Muta masses? as in they cant run away?
And I am PRETTY SURE that Vikings were barely able to run away in the famous Boxer game in MLG, they will be caught by the new missiles. That is awesome.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Just you? Devil also reacted to Ultra buff badly
Of course he is Devil, it is kinda expected, but still

im the one who thinks ultras beating an air army is dumb, as far as the build time reduction, there's probably plenty more who feel thats messed up.

 

[V_Arnold]

im the one who thinks ultras beating an air army is dumb, as far as the build time reduction, there's probably plenty more who feel thats messed up.

Honestly, I do not see how you would fare against mass Zealots or mass Marauders with +armor researched with the same composition. They would still wreck all your bases while you try to run after them.

 

[Dooraven]

no carriers doesn't need a buff, late game carriers in pvp and pvt is insanely good, i just drop down 5 stargate pump out carriers nonestop and just roll him with mass carrier + zealot

Carriers are good units, but how do you even survive to get your carriers out lol? I'm assuming you don't go colossus.

 

[MrKnives]

awesome, we'll play sometime when we're both in the gaf channel. till then.

Spoiler

Classic retreat from someone who doesn't have a good counterargument.

So if you win it's you knowing the game better and if you lose it's just how retardedly strong infestors / ultras are? Can't wait for that.

no carriers doesn't need a buff, late game carriers in pvp and pvt is insanely good, i just drop down 5 stargate pump out carriers nonestop and just roll him with mass carrier + zealot

I wouldn't mind carriers having 4 armor again ^^

 

[-COOLIO-]

Spoiler

Classic retreat from someone who doesn't have a good counterargument.

So if you win it's you knowing the game better and if you lose it's just how retardedly strong infestors / ultras are? Can't wait for that.

i think air should beat ults, i cant win

 

[MrKnives]

i think air should beat ults, i cant win

Just to provide the other side of the things, isn't this the same thing as my 5 mutas shooting a bunch of marauders killing my stuff. Yeah they will die eventually but not before killing every tech I have.

 

[Holden]

Carriers are good units, but how do you even survive to get your carriers out lol? I'm assuming you don't go colossus.

no mass charge lot / ht, if its lategame and you can't relly push just start by droping 2-3 stargate and suicide a couple zlots in his expos, don't suicide to many and then just hide the carriers till u have critical mass or he pushs and don't forget uprs for air and carrier upr

 

[-COOLIO-]

Just to provide the other side of the things, isn't this the same thing as my 5 mutas shooting a bunch of marauders killing my stuff. Yeah they will die eventually but not before killing every tech I have.

if you have a crapload of mutas youre probably good to go, and mutas arnt even an air to ground unit, or even just a ground focused unit like bcs. a better comparison would be broodlords vs rauders, which works very well. banshees vs rauders also works very well.

 

[Pandaman]

i think air should beat ults, i cant win

and by "beat" you mean "instantly massacre" because "kill them all over time with no unit losses" isn't good enough.

 

[fanboi]

Just to provide the other side of the things, isn't this the same thing as my 5 mutas shooting a bunch of marauders killing my stuff. Yeah they will die eventually but not before killing every tech I have.

Exactly

 

[Holden]

coolio, thors and marauders do pretty good vs ultras;;

btw im so happy that the robo facility is so much more viable now since you don't need to get god damn collosus to be alive

 

[cdyhybrid]

im the one who thinks ultras beating an air army is dumb, as far as the build time reduction, there's probably plenty more who feel thats messed up.

Just base race, your Banshees/BCs vs. his Ultras/Lings...except you can lift your buildings and he can't, and neither Ultras or Lings can hit air. Problem solved.

 

[V_Arnold]

if you have a crapload of mutas youre probably good to go, and mutas arnt even an air to ground unit, or even just a ground focused unit like bcs. a better comparison would be broodlords vs rauders, which works very well. banshees vs rauders also works very well.

Not really. Just do the math, really. Get 2 upgrades for mara armor, buy the amount of marauders that equals 6-10 ultralisks (hint: it is a LOT),and try to chase them with BC/Banshee. They will WRECK all your bases. All of it. Same goes if your opponent is a prot with chargelots and +armor upgrade.

 

[-COOLIO-]

coolio, thors and marauders do pretty good vs ultras;;

btw im so happy that the robo facility is so much more viable now since you don't need to get god damn collosus to be alive

im not saying theres only one counter to ults, i know what works against them.

 

[Dooraven]

coolio, thors and marauders do pretty good vs ultras;;

btw im so happy that the robo facility is so much more viable now since you don't need to get god damn collosus to be alive

Yup, thankfully it's becoming more and more the support tree (which it was in SC1)l

 

[-COOLIO-]

too many replies to manage and i should probably sleep. gg yall. i think the new build time sucks but to each their own, we'll see how it plays out