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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT3| GL HF NO GG

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V

V_Arnold

Member
Pandaman said:
cant you control your army? cant you one shot infestors with a 50 energy spell? no? dont worry blizz has you covered.

lets change an offensive spell into something that only works if your opponent makes a mistake! what a wonderful idea.
Click to expand...

What the hell are you talking about? Literally, now.
Problem with balance whiners is that they assume that the counter to their units actually always on the field, pre-emptively. It is not.
 
V

Venfayth

Member
V_Arnold said:
What? Cant you drop infestors for mass infested terrans?
Cant you chain fungal EVERYTHING?

Wow, now mass infestors CANNOT counter units that cost 2-3 times amount of what infestors themselves cost? Must be rough.

Still does not justify any ADULt actually calling others names like a FUCKING CHILD like Destiny does.
Click to expand...

Why are you raging so much about this? He's got some valid points, and so far, you really don't.

Nobody applies anywhere near the same lens to other pro players, such as idra, who goes muta/ling/bling every game vs terran.

If Infestors are truly overpowered, then why - at the high end level of play - aren't other people doing the same infestor style Destiny is, and why wasn't anyone doing it before him?

With this nerf going through it means that Protoss players won't have to make different decisions about their unit composition if the zerg player is getting infestors, the colossi deathball is unaffected. Why should P be able to ignore the fact that someone is teching to infestors?

All of these points have been Destiny's, I've just reworded them, but this next one I can't really reword, so I'll quote him directly, it is a mix of the last point as well:

Destiny said:
I've never won a game against a good player by "soley abusing infestors". You need proper expansion timing, scouting, upgrade timing, tech switching (lings to roaches, roaches/infestors to BL/roach/infestor, back to heavy lings if opponent has heavy stalker, cutting infestors if opponent has heavy HT).

I SHOULD have won those games because my opponents were NOT responding to my play style. That's an indication of a GOOD game. Now, protoss' no longer have to respond to infestors. They will simply herp derp mass colossus for literally EVERY SINGLE PvZ. Yet no one says "LOL U JUST MAKE COLOSUS ALL-GAME ABUSERRR!"
Click to expand...
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
V_Arnold said:
What the hell are you talking about? Literally, now.
Problem with balance whiners is that they assume that the counter to their units actually always on the field, pre-emptively. It is not.
Click to expand...

So someone builds a unit, and you don't have the counter out, and you die. That's imbalanced? No, sir, what are you talking about?
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
cdyhybrid said:
So someone builds a unit, and you don't have the counter out, and you die. That's imbalanced? No, sir, what are you talking about?
Click to expand...

What I am talking about is that Infestors now are FINE.

They can still CHAIN FUNGAL.
They can still mass Neural if the counter is not out.

So the only thing they cant do is auto-win once there is enough number of Infestors out on the field. Hurr-durr.

That is it.

And Destiny...he really thinks that he has the right to bash Blizzard developers because of this. He really does. THAT is pathetic.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
So what nerf are the zerg whining about anyway? Is it the fungal damage or the neural range?
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
Yoshichan said:
So what nerf are the zerg whining about anyway? Is it the fungal damage or the neural range?
Click to expand...

Neural range suddenly makes all zerg feel doomy and gloomy. Suddenly, they cant cope with the feel that their favorite, easily massable casters are not invulnerable.
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
V_Arnold said:
What the hell are you talking about? Literally, now.
Problem with balance whiners is that they assume that the counter to their units actually always on the field, pre-emptively. It is not.
Click to expand...
welcome to starcraft, its a strategy game with limited information. if you want to know everything your opponents doing, play chess.

V_Arnold said:
They can still mass Neural if the counter is not out.
Click to expand...
neural what? a stalker? neural exists to counter seige units and blizzard just made seige units invulnerable to infestors unless your opponent literally derps their colossus alone into the middle of the map.

hey lets make vikings 6 range, what could go wrong!
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Pandaman said:
welcome to starcraft, its a strategy game with limited information. if you want to know everything your opponents doing, play chess.
Click to expand...
I tried with chess... gave up after I realized I couldn't even beat difficulty 1 on Windows 7 Chess
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
V_Arnold said:
So the only thing they cant do is auto-win once there is enough number of Infestors out on the field. Hurr-durr.

That is it.

And Destiny...he really thinks that he has the right to bash Blizzard developers because of this. He really does. THAT is pathetic.
Click to expand...


See this bolded part? If you let that happen, you fucked up. Period. Please explain why, if mass infestors are so goddamn OP and auto-win, Nestea, Losira, etc. lose a single goddamn game in the GSL, ever. I would certainly think they know the game better than most, right? So why don't they just go straight for mass infestors every game and auto-win and rake in the cash?
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
cdyhybrid said:
See this bolded part? If you let that happen, you fucked up. Period. Please explain why, if mass infestors are so goddamn OP and auto-win, Nestea, Losira, etc. lose a single goddamn game in the GSL, ever. I would certainly think they know the game better than most, right? So why don't they just go straight for mass infestors every game and auto-win and rake in the cash?
Click to expand...
It auto-wins anything in master and below
 
D

Deadman

Member
No but the situation with infestors was getting silly, the t and p win rates vs zerg had fallen below 60%, thats just not right. The infestor was clearly killing everything way too easy.
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
on a somewhat unrelated note, i think its funny how idra 2-0's destiny in the mlg invitational and says destiny is more of an entertainer than a player and then destiny 2-0's incontrol in losers.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Deadman said:
No but the situation with infestors was getting silly, the t and p win rates vs zerg had fallen below 60%, thats just not right. The infestor was clearly killing everything way too easy.
Click to expand...
Hmm, korean stats or what?
 
V

Venfayth

Member
Pandaman said:
on a somewhat unrelated note, i think its funny how idra 2-0's destiny in the mlg invitational and says destiny is more of an entertainer than a player and then destiny 2-0's incontrol in losers.
Click to expand...

To be fair, incontrol is pretty bad right now >_<

Has he won any games in major tournaments recently?
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
thanks for the links.
 
K

Keikaku

Member
V_Arnold said:
What? Cant you drop infestors for mass infested terrans?
Cant you chain fungal EVERYTHING?

Wow, now mass infestors CANNOT counter units that cost 2-3 times amount of what infestors themselves cost? Must be rough.

Still does not justify any ADULt actually calling others names like a FUCKING CHILD like Destiny does.
Click to expand...
I'm going to stay out of balance discussions, since that's apparently all that happens in here these days but I did want to point out that you're really not helping anything by calling someone out for being immature while being immature yourself. Way to go.

I'll probably hop on Mumble a bit more frequently now. School is stabilizing.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Keikaku said:
since that's apparently all that happens in here these days
Click to expand...
balance <-> ponies <-> casual ladder rage <-> balance <-> ponies <-> casual ladder rage <-> balance <-> ponies <-> casual ladder rage <-> balance <-> ponies <-> casual ladder rage <-> balance <-> ponies <-> casual ladder rage <-> balance <-> ponies <-> casual ladder rage etc.
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
Keikaku said:
I'm going to stay out of balance discussions, since that's apparently all that happens in here these days but I did want to point out that you're really not helping anything by calling someone out for being immature while being immature yourself. Way to go.

I'll probably hop on Mumble a bit more frequently now. School is stabilizing.
Click to expand...

I am not immature. I am fucking drunk. I love everyone in this world, and that includes Destiny too. Even when he is being an immature prick, even then.

So at the end of the day, it does not even matter, hah :)
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I miss being drunk. Haven't taken a sip of alcohol in at least a month.

Fuck.
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
Yoshichan said:
I miss being drunk. Haven't taken a sip of alcohol in at least a month.

Fuck.
Click to expand...

Do not worry, man. Life is a sinus function. You are down? You will only go upwards. You are high? You will go downards. It will always be about highs and lows. Even with infestors.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
BigAT said:
Are you ready to get drunk off of Dark Souls soon? SO SOON.
Click to expand...
you have NO idea how drunk I'll become of Dark Souls... it'll be crazy.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
V_Arnold, you're drunk right? Enjoy:

Ecgdp.jpg
 
J

jasonng

Member
Yoshichan said:
you have NO idea how drunk I'll become of Dark Souls... it'll be crazy.
Click to expand...
Dark Souls will be an extremely rage inducing game, more than any other game that has ever existed, and you plan on playing it?

Well then...

smyhxs.gif
 
D

Dooraven

Member
If Infestors are truly overpowered, then why - at the high end level of play - aren't other people doing the same infestor style Destiny is, and why wasn't anyone doing it before him?
Click to expand...

Ehrm you must not have not many ZvPs lately in the GSL, because all the trend now is ling infestor into muta (which is actually a brilliant follow up,). Although I have no idea what was with the numerous amounts roach baneling busts yesterday lol.

I don't like the Neural nerf, it's ignoring too many problems with Zerg and the infestor but to claim that no one is using the infestor is absurd.

However, Korean Zergs besides Coca are absolutely goddamn awful with infestor control, and I don't believe that KR Zergs are that experienced with infestors. Watching DRG v Losira was while epic, saw so few usage of infestors properly, they're too passive with them, Losira and DRG could have used Burrowed infestors + IT many times but Losira kept on using roach flanks while DRG kept on going for a roach bust, it essentially boiled down to roach fungal v roach fungal. Although DRG did finally use Infested Terrans to clear Losira's 4th. Destiny has much better infestor control and I think understanding than both of them :/

Coca is someone to emulate though, his infestor based ZvP is pretty godly and I think he has the best understanding of where infestors lay in the Zerg arsenel.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
It's very hard to even use the GSL as an example because of how average to bad most Korean protoss are. Since MC's fall there really hasn't been a super impressive Toss who looks scary. HerO is getting there, but that's about it.

Toss are basically still rehashing MC's builds from months ago, whereas the other races are evolving; Hellion abuse, elevator play vs zerg, Roach/ling, Infestor heavy, etc etc. This is basically like Idra and other zergs bitching that Roach/Corrupter wasn't working against Toss months ago
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
Dooraven said:
Ehrm you must not have not many ZvPs lately in the GSL, because all the trend now is ling infestor into muta (which is actually a brilliant follow up,). Although I have no idea what was with the numerous amounts roach baneling busts yesterday lol.

I don't like the Neural nerf, it's ignoring too many problems with Zerg and the infestor but to claim that no one is using the infestor is absurd.

However, Korean Zergs besides Coca are absolutely goddamn awful with infestor control, and I don't believe that KR Zergs are that experienced with infestors. Watching DRG v Losira was while epic, saw so few usage of infestors properly, they're too passive with them, Losira and DRG could have used Burrowed infestors + IT many times but Losira kept on using roach flanks while DRG kept on going for a roach bust, it essentially boiled down to roach fungal v roach fungal. Although DRG did finally use Infested Terrans to clear Losira's 4th. Destiny has much better infestor control and I think understanding than both of them :/

Coca is someone to emulate though, his infestor based ZvP is pretty godly and I think he has the best understanding of where infestors lay in the Zerg arsenel.
Click to expand...

He didn't mean using infestors at all, he meant MASS infestor, 20+ like Destiny.
 
D

Dooraven

Member
cdyhybrid said:
He didn't mean using infestors at all, he meant MASS infestor, 20+ like Destiny.
Click to expand...

Ah right, yeah thats true, no ones gone 20+ infestors in a pro game. I still don't think KR Zergs still get the infestor properly though (besides Coca)
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
It's up to the players to figure out how Infestors help and work into their playstyle and how confident they feel about using them.

We are seeing more use and I'm sure it will just go up over time.
Like carriers.
 
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