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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT3| GL HF NO GG
- Thread starter Corran Horn
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Hey so I just got SC2 a few days ago and being a guy who has played 2 RTS games ever, I'm in the practice league right now. I understand that the practice league maps are different from the ranked ladder matches and even the game settings are, even if they are slight. I've been looking up Terran build orders online and am wondering if they're effective even in the practice league.
I've been doing ok so far I feel like. I definitely am progressing even if I'm 0-4. In all the matches I've lost, I've had a bigger economy but I still get wrecked. Any tips would be appreciated.
I've been doing ok so far I feel like. I definitely am progressing even if I'm 0-4. In all the matches I've lost, I've had a bigger economy but I still get wrecked. Any tips would be appreciated.
Yeah, the AI attacks too early and doesn't cheese you, but if you can beat hard 1v1 you should be able to out macro most bronze players. Just make extra production buildings, spending your money is very important.
Check out Day9, his Newbie Tuesday videos are really helpful.
Most of the stuff you learn from pro SC2 is too hard or useless for low level players, but it can help you learn more of the game and is a lot of fun to watch. Currently IPL is running. Check it out!
Check out Day9, his Newbie Tuesday videos are really helpful.
Most of the stuff you learn from pro SC2 is too hard or useless for low level players, but it can help you learn more of the game and is a lot of fun to watch. Currently IPL is running. Check it out!
Tashi0106 said:
Do yourself a favor and skip practice league. It's so different to the normal ladder. Rocks everywhere, slower speed etc.
If you feel you are still just trying to make a unit just for the sake of to see how it looks like or what it does, ok stay in practice league. But the slower speed alone is a huge difference.
Come to NeoGaf channel or give your id and code we will add you and we can play few games + give tips.
We are a very helpful bunch of guys who like to help newcomers.
About the build order I would say get something one that you do against everyone. Nothing special, it's more important just to understand the gameflow and get some experience before trying anything fancy. Just make stuff.
a176 said:
*avatar quote*
Pandaman said:
It's a stupid point but he isn't wrong. Mules have the potential to waste their last load of minerals by expiring before they drop it off. Other workers don't do that.
SCVs are perfectly efficient with no waste, MULEs technically have some waste and are therefore less efficient.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Haha, oh wow
mules mine at the rate of 6 workers.ultron87 said:
mules waste 30 minerals tops. [aka 10% of its mining value]
and only if they die in transit from the patch to the cc
you'd have to lose 10 loads per cc per game to equalize with the money you spent on equivalent drones/probes. which means if you dropped 30 minerals on every load, it would take you about 13 game minutes per cc. You'll never equalize the supply cost.
Pandaman said:
Efficiency: the ratio of the useful energy delivered by a dynamic system to the energy supplied to it
Every mineral that an SCV picks up will make it back to the Command Center without any outside intervention. 100% efficiency. Not true for Mules.
It is stupidly insignificant point, but it isn't a wrong one.
(And it is really closer to 4 SCVs per Mule.)
and you're trying to ignore the costs of the units vs mule in the 'energy supplied to it' part.ultron87 said:
But thats probably why you went with #2 instead of #1:
effective operation as measured by a comparison of production with cost (as in energy, time, and money)
Pandaman said:
Inefficiency was originally brought into the conversation by the post suggesting that Mules automatically waste 100 minerals per use. The term was being used to refer to wasted minerals from mining.
But whatever, you just go on perpetuating your belief that every player of every non-Zerg race is dumb.
mules are not designed with an efficiency mechanic. mules are less efficient in your claim in the sense that drones are less efficient because they can get hellion'd with minerals in hand.ultron87 said:
a mule dropped on a patch next to a properly placed oc will not be inefficient without player intervention.
So no, 'lolz they're already inefficient' isn't true.
stop proving me right.
Revengeance
Member
Tashi!! Welcome! I basically abandoned Halo for Starcraft. Don't regret it.
Also, my advice is to just watch tournaments and streams, but play more than you watch.
Also, my advice is to just watch tournaments and streams, but play more than you watch.
when it does happen its due to bad mineral patch placement [like xel naga end patches or gysers on metal], its not normal function of the mule.Q8D3vil said:
for example, if you only muled a base on xel naga, you'd lose 370minerals from the end patches [2.5% of the total field]. if you just never muled the ends, you'd never lose anything. idra was misinformed. :\
he was commentating tvp between hasu and tarson when tarson built tons of oc and start sacrificing scv's hasu had better economy because mules are not efficient at mining as an actual scv.Pandaman said:
even when i play tvz or tvp 2 base vs 2 base the resources in the end are the same, mules just barely let you catch up to your opponent, its a bad game design but that is how the game works.
people hate mules because even when zerg or protoss all in the terran and kill tons of scv's, the terran will still have a chance to come back because of mules.
AdventureRacing
Member
Q8D3vil said:
Actually it's the other way round. People hate when a terran brings all his scv's and then keeps mining with his mules.
Personally i don't mind the different mechanics for each race.
then your right and idra is wrong, its not like the first time that happens
i don't like the whole inject/mule/chrono mechanics because in the end people will bitch about something ( mules currently ) while neglecting how good the other mechanics are ( protoss just discovered 2 forge mass chrono upgrades into HT in tvp ).
its just so stupid and can't seem to balance all the stages of the game.
Q8D3vil said:
Lol wut. That build has been around for ages and ages, GSTL terrans for some reason didn't punish it.
I don't really like the new macro mechanics stuff they introduced either. The only well balanced and well designed one is chronoboost imo but even that falls off lategame.
Q8D3vil said:
Just so we're clear here, this is factually wrong (in the general case). Mules don't "just barely let you catch up to your opponent"; very quickly, OC'd mining bases have brought in more minerals at a given time period then Nexus'd mining bases. I also don't agree that it's necessarily a bad design decision, thought I don't think it's one that goes well with Terran.
at some point in the early game if both T and P FE in the same time protoss should have 7-8 probes lead the entire time at least, mix in the fact that terran players will stop throwing mules at a certain point between 10-12 minute mark so they can save scans when they want to attack or drop harass.Vaporak said:
tvz in other hand zerg will have 50 drone and terran will just have 30 scv in the beginning (even if you tried to harass them to make them make drones they will be ahead anyway if they hit the inject perfectly in the first 10 minutes).
111 was around for ages too, so protoss player just become worst with time
on a serious note, i remember this build from tyler and adelscott but this korean version seems to have a really well and refined timing. it can be punished but its very good for the current meta game.
there is no balanced macro mechanics in the game imo, it just that some mechanics are better depending on the circumstances.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Last 2 days have been amazing
Q8D3vil said:
Worker advantages rapidly level off in returns, mules don't. I'm not talking opinions here, this idea has already been tested; just google for that TL analysis of Macro thread. Terran income per unit time rapidly overtakes protoss's chronoboosted income per unit time for each OC base. TvZ is different and hard to easily measure because of zerg's highly volatile drone production and their tendency to be one base ahead.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Byun to zenex? NOOOO....lolMairu said:
Byun to Prime!
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
gaf sc2 cycle.
So, my brother who doesn't really know much about games saw me playing SC2 last night and says, "oh what game is that?. I tell him. He started to flip out. "Starcraft, are you fucking serious?! You're one of those guys now?!" I told him that he's thinking of World of Warcraft. He said, "same shit, it has Craft in the name" I laughed and told him he's a fuckin retard.
Also, I skipped the practice league like you guys advised and played through the placement matches. I lost all of them and am at 99 Bronze League. That was expected. I do feel like I'm progressing though. I'm getting better with hot keys and actually just figured out that I can have more workers get Gas than the standard 1 after the refinery is built. Huge boost in my gas and solves the mystery of why people I play against get so many vehicles so quickly. I've only played Terran so far but Protoss is intriguing. I might give them a shot.
Also, I skipped the practice league like you guys advised and played through the placement matches. I lost all of them and am at 99 Bronze League. That was expected. I do feel like I'm progressing though. I'm getting better with hot keys and actually just figured out that I can have more workers get Gas than the standard 1 after the refinery is built. Huge boost in my gas and solves the mystery of why people I play against get so many vehicles so quickly. I've only played Terran so far but Protoss is intriguing. I might give them a shot.
perryfarrell
Member
^ Learn the standard 3 rax build (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWItSrXKwzw). And you'll be in platinum soon.
He can muck around first and learn basics. Otherwise he will be in plat knowing only 1 build.
2) Try to get used to hotkeys, if you a new player GRID layout (q,w,e,r etc.) can work very well.
3) 2 workers per mineral patch for optimal mining, 2.5 for saturarated, 3 per gas. Too many workers on 1 base? Need another.
4) 3 or 4 production buildings per base allows you good production and tech. Only queue up 1 or 2 units at a time to spend your money effectively.
1) Never stop making workersTashi0106 said:
2) Try to get used to hotkeys, if you a new player GRID layout (q,w,e,r etc.) can work very well.
3) 2 workers per mineral patch for optimal mining, 2.5 for saturarated, 3 per gas. Too many workers on 1 base? Need another.
4) 3 or 4 production buildings per base allows you good production and tech. Only queue up 1 or 2 units at a time to spend your money effectively.
Hazaro said:
Whoa whoa whoa, Each actual mineral thing is different? I thought it was just one big strip that was treated the same. Wow, this game just keeps getting deeper lol.
I'm getting used to the Terran hotkey layout already and I don't want to change it up right now. I'm pretty good on a keyboard so I know that won't be an issue after too long.
Ok, so 2 per mineral, 3 per gas. So after that I basically want to build a new command center?
Now, do I ever just want to have a standard barracks? You know, one that isn't with the reactor or tech'd up? I know early on you don't have much of a choice if you want to have multiple barracks from the start.
I also have a question about the terminology and supply depots. I see a lot of build orders online and they say something like, 9 supply depot, 12 barracks, 15 barracks, 16 refinery blah blah blah. What exactly are they referring to? Is it the number at the top right? The 6/6 or 12/15? Whatever it might be. Supply depots effect that cap right? The max, what effects the first number? Is that the number of workers?
Lastly, how often do I want to be building supply depots. I find myself getting hung up because of them sometimes and then I go ahead and build like 3 or 4 in a row just so that doesn't happen again for a while.
Thanks a lot!
Tashi0106 said:
I would uses that as a general rule of thumb until you have a stronger grasp of the economic side of the game design.
Tashi0106 said:
Cost-benefit analysis. Both tech lab and reactor cost construction time and money during which there is no production from your rax. In the early game, building an add-on is based on your gameplan/build order. Otherwise in the mid game and onwards I say build the add on straight away.
Tashi0106 said:
The number is your current supply / max supply. Supply depots increase your max supply until 200 (game imposed limit). Every individual unit built (scvs, marines, tanks) uses an amount of your current supply (differs based on unit).
Tashi0106 said:
A general rule of thumb is for each command center/base you have you want an scv dedicated to making supply depots.
I'd suggest a good solid 1 base opening so you don't die and can get into later games.Tashi0106 said:
Usually you want a very fast expansion (so you can barely hold if they attack), or make a decent force, then expand (to defend your expansion).
And example would be to make 1 barracks, marine, then a command center. Or
Barracks, Gas, Barracks, marine, tech lab, marauder, reactor, marines, marauder, marines, command center.
Current Supply / Max Supply
Starting off you can make depots at: 10 current supply, 16, 22, 28, etc. Something like that. Starting around 40ish supply your income is great enough to supply making two at a time. If you are running into issues having extra money then make something like 3 at a time and add more production facilities. Never let your money stay high and always keep making workers.
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