Support NeoGAF

[freeofgreed]

Aren't all police killings, justified or not homicides?

Theres only 4 choices, suicide, homicide, natural causes, accident

The problem was that there shouldn't have even been a homicide in this case.

 

[Plywood]

Or don't resist. Why would you practice self defense when you already saw people dying when they raised their hands when trying to get cuffed. Just put hands behind back and lay down. Don't try to walk towards a cop...wtf you have a death wish.

Get your common sense outta here.

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police_shooting_of_Oscar_Grant

 

[Mully]

you americans live in a fucked up country. fuccckkkkk

I will not say it's fucked up. Hundreds of countries deal with racism daily. It's just that in America it's more of a contentious issue that's spoken about more openly than coutries across the pond.

To be honest I'd say Europe is far more racist than America, but it's hidden behind a lot of politics that liberals support.

Adding to that, local jurisdictions have a lot more power than other local governments in foreign countries. If each local government was under complete federal control there'd be slightly less racism embedded in local culture.

 

[jamesinclair]

You were and still are.

The death was declared a homicide by the medical examiner, and a grand jury comprised of the general public refused to indict. The problem isn't a corrupt prosecutor or every single police officer. Hell, where do you think those people come from?

The public.

Thats not how it works.

The grand jury comprised of the jury refused to indict....based upon what the closed system of prosecutes and police officers instructed them to do.

In Ferguson, the prosecute brought up an ancient law that was overruled by the supreme court as an example of why the officer could be justified, and refused to correct that problem.

What did the NYC prosecutor tell the jury?

 

[Branduil]

I'm not scared I just don't resist if being cuffed. I was just talking about how someone said we need self defense against cops. That is just stupid. IE more people die.

Yeah but at least some of those dead people would be cops.

 

[FelixOrion]

Are you fucking kidding me

god fucking dammit america

we're so fucking broken

 

[Kusagari]

This is as clearcut as you can get and of course nothing happens.

It must feel terrible to know that a loved one has been killed by a cop, because you instantly know you will never receive justice.

 

[Mononoke]

Can't wait to see the defense force out at full strength. I hope there's a huge civil lawsuit and the department fires him. The coroner ruled it a homicide, for shits sake.



Soooooo, chokehold is warranted at that point, I guess.

Don't see how anyone can defend this. I mean he wasn't resisting arrest to a degree that warranted a choke hold. And selling an illegal product is a far cry away from physical damage. If anyone defends this because "he shouldn't have broken the law" then they are seriously fucked.

 

[quickwhips]

You can't choke a person to death because he resisted a little.

Dude it just happened. Also When someone goes to choke you. Your body is going to fight back. The best thing to do is not resist in the first place and put hands behind back. He could have had no cigarettes on him and filed a discrimatory case against the police and be alive...fucking sucks man.

 

[Pete Rock]

Unbelievable, this is outrageous

 

[Syriel]

You were and still are.

The death was declared a homicide by the medical examiner, and a grand jury comprised of the general public refused to indict. The problem isn't a corrupt prosecutor or every single police officer. Hell, where do you think those people come from?

The public.

Why couldn't the prosecutor simply indict?

Calling a grand jury is one way to wash his hands of the issue and push the blame onto someone else for not wanting to prosecute.

We agree to disagree. When he was cuffing him and he pulled hands back that is resisting. It sucks he died but I've been stopped and stuff before and I just comply fuck nothing is worth dying for. I have a wife and soon to be kid at home.

Except using a chokehold is banned by the NYPD. They're not allowed to use it under any circumstances.

And yet, there it is. Right in the photo (and on video elsewhere) of a cop using a chokehold on a downed Garner.

Police Union reps can deny it all they want, but the photos don't lie.

This should have never even gone to a Grand Jury. It should have just led to an indictment directly.

 

[VeryGooster]

Staten Island?

Staten Island.

 

[Maxim726X]

Want to get away with murder? Become a cop.

Sickening.

 

[Rock And Roll]

Sadly I'm not surprised. This is a disturbing trend.

 

[commedieu]

Get your common sense outta here.

this is honestly fucking rage inducing.


I'm a little more than pissed off.

since I love doing it... time to check Police One and Stormfront.

 

[Thorakai]

I really want to see what was presented

 

[CrazyDogg77]

I will not say it's fucked up. Hundreds of countries deal with racism daily. It's just that in America it's more of a contentious issue that's spoken about more openly than coutries across the pond.

To be honest I'd say Europe is far more racist than America, but it's hidden behind a lot of politics that liberals support.

Adding to that, local jurisdictions have a lot more power than other local governments in foreign countries. If each local government was under complete federal control there'd be slightly less racism embedded in local culture.

Still pretty damn fucked up. This decision isn't surprising at all unfortunately

 

[Mononoke]

Yeah but at least some of those dead people would be cops.

I agree in the case of cops threatening your life when there is no justification. At that point it's about your survival and I think morally you have every right to kill them. It's self defense. If I was bola I would feel paranoid and wouldn't blame them for wanting to carry a weapon In fear of their life being threatened.

 

[Dabanton]

Black lives don't matter in America.

It's sad to say but

The last two weeks should have hammered that point into any black person who thought differently

You can follow every order but if the cop wishes so you'll be dead and it will be 'Justified'

 

[Deadstar]

So you can kill someone legally if you wear a badge? This needs to change.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Oh shit! Ferguson at it aga..oh, wait. Guess the media is riding the blood train though..

Spoiler

//////

s

 

[e_i]

Didn't the coroner rule the death a homicide? I guess the cop got away with murder.

 

[radios shipping overview]

So, forgive my ignorance....Is the grand jury just like a trial jury? They get 12 people and present them evidence and they decide if this can go to trial?

Just how the hell do you see an official coroner report and say 'nope, nothing wrong here'

The prosecutor intentionally builds a messy, confusing case - or doesn't build a case at all - and punts to the jury to determine whether there is probable cause. See: Ferguson.

It's clear that if you are a cop who kills a black person, you will be protected by friends in high places.

 

[spindashing]

We agree to disagree. When he was cuffing him and he pulled hands back that is resisting. It sucks he died but I've been stopped and stuff before and I just comply fuck nothing is worth dying for. I have a wife and soon to be kid at home.

Fun fact: The rear-naked chokehold/guillotine has been prohibited by the NYPD since 1993.

 

[FlyingSaucer]

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.

 

[commedieu]

Fun fact: The rear-naked chokehold/guillotine has been prohibited by the NYPD since 1993.

Fun-Fact, This won't change his mind.

 

[kingocfs]

Didn't the coroner rule the death a homicide? I guess the cop got away with murder.

Don't worry, they were assigned desk jobs. That'll show 'em.

 

[IISANDERII]

I will not say it's fucked up. Hundreds of countries deal with racism daily. It's just that in America it's more of a contentious issue that's spoken about more openly than coutries across the pond.

To be honest I'd say Europe is far more racist than America, but it's hidden behind a lot of politics that liberals support.

Adding to that, local jurisdictions have a lot more power than other local governments in foreign countries. If each local government was under complete federal control there'd be slightly less racism embedded in local culture.

Europe is more racist? Do Euro police kill minorities on a regular basis and we just don't hear about it?

 

[Mononoke]

Fun-Fact, This won't change his mind.

Some people have no sympathy for people that break the law or who resist arrest. But it's honestly disturbing how they jump to being okay with them being murdered over this. Like the leap in logic and morality is fuckin insane.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

We agree to disagree. When he was cuffing him and he pulled hands back that is resisting. It sucks he died but I've been stopped and stuff before and I just comply fuck nothing is worth dying for. I have a wife and soon to be kid at home.

You're kind of a disgusting human. Go ahead and continue victim blaming instead of the person who murdered someone. A person who is supposed to protect the public not murder the person who's paying his salary.

"She was wearing the wrong outfit in the wrong neighborhood. It sucks she was raped and murdered but I teach my daughters to wear appropriate clothing and to never go out by themselves"

 

[MickeyKnox]

Of course.

 

[Gorillaz]

America, brehs

 

[spindashing]

Fun-Fact, This won't change his mind.

Fun fact: I wasn't keeping my hopes up.

 

[commedieu]

Fun fact: I wasn't keeping my hopes up.

fun-fact:

This sucks.

 

[Heisenberg]

I was fine with the Ferguson verdict.

This though? Terrible.

 

[quickwhips]

Fun-Fact, This won't change his mind.

Does everyone here think I am for what the cop did? I'm saying the guy was surrounded by cops and he is like sure I'm just going to raise my hands when they try to cuff me. That shit is the dumbest Idea ever. Fun Fact: The cop is wrong and he should have been charged but I'm saying I would have just complied and not had choke hold come up.

 

[entremet]

This was definitely fixed. Remember, prosecutors and the police work for the same entity--the State.

 

[Mononoke]

Europe is more racist? Do Euro police kill minorities on a regular basis and we just don't hear about it?

Lime made a similar argument in another thread that blew up with people disagreeing with her. Forget the thread. Wish I could link it to see what the argument was being made. Persoanlly I don't understand why making "x country is more racist" arguments. Not sure what it accomplishes when we are focusing on a specific country and it's problems and how to fix it.

 

[Lum1n3s]

I just saw the notification on my phone and am in complete shock! I seriously did not think the court would hand him that verdict. I honestly don't even know what to think at the moment...

 

[Baron Aloha]

Shameful. I wonder what the public outcry will be. There didn't seem to be much when it happened which always puzzled me (the story seemed to die down quickly). The Michael Brown killing wasn't nearly as clear cut a case as this, IMO (due to conflicting witness accounts and other reasons) and yet that is the one that the public chose to rally behind rather than this poor guy. Meanwhile this one is on tape. I guess it is because a gun was used? Does it really matter if the end result is the same (i.e. person ends up dead)? Both are terrible, don't get me wrong.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The problem was that there shouldn't have even been a homicide in this case.

Oh I agree, just that homocides doesn't imply a crime.

I agree completely this was though, don't get me wrong

 

[EatinOlives]

This is absolutely disgusting. Seems like under no circumstance will a cop ever see justice served to him for killing an unarmed black person.

And yet, I don't see this gaining as much traction as the Brown case despite being 100% clear cut murder using an illegal choke hold with full video proof.

 

[Maninthemirror]

as i said in the soon to be locked thread:

So both the Medical examiner AND the independent forensic expert ruled it a homocide except the prosecuter who USE both those findings to resolve other cases. got it.

 

[kaskade]

The prosecutor intentionally builds a messy, confusing case - or doesn't build a case at all - and punts to the jury to determine whether there is probable cause. See: Ferguson.

I also want to know who these people are that they can see a video of an officer doing something prohibited for over 20 years, in no immediate danger having like 5 other officers around him, with a man audibly saying I can't breathe and not see anything wrong with it.

 

[TheJLC]

Can't wait to see the defense force out at full strength. I hope there's a huge civil lawsuit and the department fires him. The coroner ruled it a homicide, for shits sake.


Soooooo, chokehold is warranted at that point, I guess.

Yes, it was a homicide but the grand jury didn't believe it was murder. Two different things under the law.

Killing = homicide. Killing illegally = Murder. Killing legally = Homicide too but justifiable. So, there is justifiable homicide which police officers can do under certain circumstances, a license to kill some would say. Civilians also have that license under self-defense clauses.

Anyways, I don't see how this didn't get an indictment. Yes, Garner was resisting but at one point he stopped and the chokehold continued. Not only that, but the chokehold is banned as far as I know. So this officer used an inappropriate move that caused the death of someone. At least a manslaughter should have applied.

 

[Nokagi]

Honestly I find this way more outrageous than the Mike Brown case. That officer chocked him out and you can even hear Eric Garner pleading that he couldn't breathe. And it's all right there on video for you to see! You don't need to rely on witnesses or different pieces of evidence. Just watch the damn video.

 

[quickwhips]

This is absolutely disgusting. Seems like under no circumstance will a cop ever see justice served to him for killing an unarmed black person.

And yet, I don't see this gaining as much traction as the Brown case despite being 100% clear cut murder using an illegal choke hold with full video proof.

This should have way more traction IMHO than the brown case.

 

[Aiustis]

Police having been killing black men since forever. It's just that once upon a time it was out of sight out of mind. They're much less discrete with it now.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Does everyone here think I am for what the cop did? I'm saying the guy was surrounded by cops and he is like sure I'm just going to raise my hands when they try to cuff me. That shit is the dumbest Idea ever. Fun Fact: The cop is wrong and he should have been charged but I'm saying I would have just complied and not had choke hold come up.

Your line of thinking is why the cop wasn't charged. You're part of the problem. You're an obstacle.

 

[Foggy]

This one hit me harder than most others because of the video of the incident and just watching a man die for no reason at all. I want to type more, but there's nothing more for me to say.