Danne-Danger
Member
All that thread proves is that it is, in fact, not arguable.jim-jam bongs said:
I wouldn't advice anyone to stick their head into that mess.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
STEAM- Announcements & Updates 2011 Edition |OT2|
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
- Start date
- Status
I wouldn't advice anyone to stick their head into that mess.
Des0lar said:
I paid $60 for the 360 version. I'll ask that you refrain from mocking me, though, since feeling obligated to complete the game to get my munny's worth was punishment enough. The best I can do now is prevent others from making the same mistake.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Danne-Danger said:All that thread proves is that it is, in fact, not arguable.
I wouldn't advice anyone to stick their head into that mess.
Some days I'm like this unstoppable sewerage diver. I dive into threads which are overflowing with shit in the hope of beating them into submission, but in the end I'm usually just tired and smell bad.
Snuggler said:
All you need:
Joe Molotov
Member
Des0lar said:
Am I allowed to enter this contest?
jim-jam bongs
Member
Joe did you just, like, give Valve your credit-card or something?
Joe Molotov
Member
I can stop any time I want.
Fact is, someone made you notice nicely that MP is best played with M+KB and you went all killing spree for no apparent reason, even referring to superiority complex, what the hell.Dice said:
3rd person shooters are shooters nonetheless, they require a certain degree of aim, and the most accurate aiming device is... you guessed it, a mouse. That said, you could play Modern Warfare in multiplayer with a NES pad, for all I care. End of story.
jim-jam bongs
Member
oh hey look at this cute cat doing something cute
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
That nice person was clarifying what the original person (who was being a jackass) meant. Also, this is only like the 40th time I've gotten this shit from people. Why can't they just mind their own business and let people play how they want to play?Tomodachi said:
Danne-Danger
Member
I'd lie if said I wasn't guilty of this myself! Still, M/KB vs. pad threads are always... special. I think ghst once described them as "M/KB superiority death stomps". Its dangerous to take them seriously as you may end up losing your mind at some point, so be careful! Anyway, that thread also had the whole competitive angle in it. I don't think "~75%" refused to admit that M/KB is indeed the superior control method, rather, people argued that an inferior control method wouldnt sully the game in any way.jim-jam bongs said:
A game that would suck on a pad would be one with many enemies on screen where you'd require speed and agility (in aiming and movement, jumping etc.) to reach the goal. You'll have more trouble with auto-aim sticking to the wrong enemies, a harder time reacting to enemies attacking you from anything other than straight ahead, it'd be harder to keep up with everything that's going on around you, it's more difficult to move and aim while also jumping/crouching/interacting (switching weapons and what have you, also diving in Max Payne) with things at the same time. Even in games that are not designed specifically with M/KB in mind those are all advantages you'll get anyway, like in Bioshock for instance you can switch between different abilities and weapons much more quickly with a M/KB. For Max Payne I can't imagine doing the same stuff I'd do with M/KB and bullet time (dive into a room and headshot everything 360 degrees around me) as easily with a pad, for one you would probably hit the ground before you had scanned the whole area. For me it feels better because I can do whatever I want when using a M/KB and I'm not limited by the relative impreciseness you get with a pad. Every movement that happens is exactly how I want it to be, no acceleration (ideally), no deadzone getting in the way, no auto-aim, every button within reach at all times etc. That's why I think M/KB is indeed the best control method for anything involving precise movement and aim, which would be most shooters, Max Payne included.
That said, analogue movement usually feels/looks better in third person, as keyboard inputs tend to make the character look rather stiff. Other than that though, a pad can certainly do most of the things a M/KB can do, it just can't do them as well.
Look at me being all civil!
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
You know what I've been doing for a decade? Turning off auto-aim. You know what that did? Made me able to play with a gamepad. You can play a single player shooter with gamepad and enjoy it. Someone in this thread already said how they prefer Max Payne that way. It's not an outrageous notion and that is all I am trying to say. It's possible and it's even common, so stay off people's asses when they bring it up.
Danne-Danger
Member
Which is all true, it's all down to how you want to play. But you wanted examples as to why people think M/KB is superior so I gave you some.Dice said:
Syphon Filter
Member
What ever happened to those mortal kombat games that were suppose to come?
From personal experiences, "MY GIRLFRIEND X..." are never good judges of things.
I can understand someone liking something, but there are too many things that are wrong with the design to actually consider Fable 3 to be objectively good.
Basically: The story is very short for an rpg and goes nowhere (subjectively bad), on hard even the most braindead of players can breeze through it because combat is broken (objectively bad), in order to make the game more "immersive" they removed all of the menus but all that did was make it time consuming and obtuse to do the most mundane of tasks (objectively bad).
Those are my main complaints, there are others.
I can understand someone liking something, but there are too many things that are wrong with the design to actually consider Fable 3 to be objectively good.
Basically: The story is very short for an rpg and goes nowhere (subjectively bad), on hard even the most braindead of players can breeze through it because combat is broken (objectively bad), in order to make the game more "immersive" they removed all of the menus but all that did was make it time consuming and obtuse to do the most mundane of tasks (objectively bad).
Those are my main complaints, there are others.
Nice sexist comment. Her opinion is just as valid as yours. Also, your "objective truths" are far from objective. For example, the fact that combat is so easy and mashable is one of her absolute favorite things about the game. It's not a game for "hardcore gamers".Gvaz said:
Gully State said:
I've played that too and enjoyed it, although unfortunately the plot to the second game just can't compare to the first game :/ The first game seemed to be connected to real history. The second game was just... pseudo-mysticism. I still liked the humor in it, it was just slightly disappointing.
Still haven't played the third game, I heard it wasn't so great. I keep thinking about getting it with this sale, but since I probably won't play it right away I might as well wait. It's 50% off quite often it seems, during various sales.
Dice said:
Stalker uses more buttons than a 360 controller has, and I would disagree that it is a really shitty game. But maybe you just meant third person shooters that use more buttons than a 360 controller has are shitty games.
Edit: A lot of it is quick keys though which I guess you could get around by just opening up the menu and changing fire type, scrolling through to different submenus, etc.
How does one even do lean on a 360 controller? (not being facetious, I'm honestly curious if anyone's ever done it well.)
Dice said:
How are we unreasonable, you come in here complaining about a 10 year old video game not having native controller support, because you don't have the capability to use a mouse and keyboard. Then you go on to say it is a garbage game because of this... And you call us unreasonable come on dude, you could've approached this whole thing differently. People would've been glad to help you.
*cue kitty picture*
jim-jam bongs
Member
Ledsen said:
I'm sure he'll explain himself but I think it's more that when someone says on a gaming board "my girlfriend likes this" it's usually assumed that the woman in question isn't a "gamer". Not that the fact that she isn't would invalidate her opinion in any way, however we all look for recommendations from people who have similar tastes to ours.
Edit: my post made more sense before you added the stuff after the second sentence.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
No, I asked.Smash88 said:
False assumption.
No, I said it's probably poorly designed if it required more than a modern controller can offer, which it does not.
"Please stop posting" is unreasonable in the most literal sense. It's asking for a concession without reason. Other responses were just as forthright in their disregard for the possibility that someone could reasonably prefer a gamepad. Being condescending doesn't make one right and it is perfectly fair to call a person unreasonable when they are acting that way without discourse.
Er, perhaps I should have said "my boyfriend and/or girlfriend" or "my significant other" because I didn't mean girls in general.Ledsen said:
If the person in question (regardless of gender) isn't someone who plays games normally, yeah that does kind of invalidate that person's opinion imo. I'm more likely to consider someone's viewpoint in saying "man I like stalker" if they also like certain other games, but I'm less likely to consider their opinion if their other gaming interests are shit like "man I also love farmville and angry birds on my phone and that's mostly what I play!". However what I was saying was this part of your quote:jim-jam bongs said:
jim-jam bongs said:
However he didn't say enough for me to judge her or anything, but I was simply saying something I have noticed in a general sense.
xenoflux2113
Member
I say it is mandatory that you bring at lest one cat gif into the thread each day. Spread that love!jim-jam bongs said:oh hey look at this cute cat doing something cute
The reason us KM+M guys rave about it is because of the mouse part. 1:1 smooth, direct input. Makes aiming a joy. It's very hard to get that on a console pad. People can argue about it but it's physically true that mice are great for that. From slow precise movements to whipping your head behind you, it feels fantastic. I mean, you don't see graphic designers using control pads to design logos or illustrations. Same idea.
On the other hand, controllers are nice because everything you need is right there, in your hands, with no extra buttons or keys. I feel that for anything that does not require manual aiming, like Assassins Creed or Prince of Persia or even an Ace Combat, controllers are relaxing and fun to use and I often do. But I have a very hard time doing what I can do with a mouse on a controller in games like Splinter Cell or Max Payne.
Really, this argument is boring, and this is the Steam thread, not the whine thread. So I recommend going to google.com and searching for a joypad configuration for the Max Payne games.
On the other hand, controllers are nice because everything you need is right there, in your hands, with no extra buttons or keys. I feel that for anything that does not require manual aiming, like Assassins Creed or Prince of Persia or even an Ace Combat, controllers are relaxing and fun to use and I often do. But I have a very hard time doing what I can do with a mouse on a controller in games like Splinter Cell or Max Payne.
Really, this argument is boring, and this is the Steam thread, not the whine thread. So I recommend going to google.com and searching for a joypad configuration for the Max Payne games.
Gully State
Member
Lissar said:
Never played the 3rd one either as the sequel wasn't that great. I just put it out there since it seemed like you wanted more Nico.
Kabouter said:You didn't even get close to the worst part of the game,when you're king
Oh man. Hold A to abolish child labor, hold X to send the little fuckers back to work. So much nuance!
On that note, there were a lot of quests that consisted of nothing but holding A or holding X. If not that, then following a linear path as you repeatedly fight one of like, four enemy types in the game. Fable has always been accessibility, but many of the design decisions in 3 were just lazy. It's an ugly, sloppy and tedious game all the way through.
She plays quite a lot of games, and loves complex strategy like Anno 1404. She doesn't play action games though and hates being challenged, or dying. Fable is the only game which lets her explore environments, solve quests and find items without the usual risk of death, while incorporating social aspects from other games she likes (eg harvest moon). I'm sure there are a lot of people like her on gaf, or there would be without the elitist "gamer culture" scaring them away and dogpiling on a unique franchise like Fable, that caters to a sorely overlooked demographic. (sorry for the rant, and I'm obviously not talking about you, but I feel pretty strongly about this).jim-jam bongs said:
jim-jam bongs
Member
C'MON OT3
I can't actually take the credit, I steal most of them from the Funny Pics thread
Xeno_Flux2113 said:
I can't actually take the credit, I steal most of them from the Funny Pics thread
Gully State
Member
ctrayne said:The reason us KM+M guys rave about it is because of the mouse part. 1:1 smooth, direct input. Makes aiming a joy. It's very hard to get that on a console pad. People can argue about it but it's physically true that mice are great for that. From slow precise movements to whipping your head behind you, it feels fantastic. I mean, you don't see graphic designers using control pads to design logos or illustrations. Same idea.
On the other hand, controllers are nice because everything you need is right there, in your hands, with no extra buttons or keys. I feel that for anything that does not require manual aiming, like Assassins Creed or Prince of Persia or even an Ace Combat, controllers are relaxing and fun to use and I often do. But I have a very hard time doing what I can do with a mouse on a controller in games like Splinter Cell or Max Payne.
Really, this argument is boring, and this is the Steam thread, not the whine thread. So I recommend going to google.com and searching for a joypad configuration for the Max Payne games.
Not only that but his original post was asking about a game on sale at D2D..
As would I (well most but not all WoW fans anyways) but I digress, I wasn't trying to upset you, but my original intent was simply that the "through the grapevine" of "x person likes this" isn't very.....helpful? It would be more helpful if it was you voicing your opinion of it, as we're not talking to your friends but to you (the posters)Ledsen said:
- Status