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[JustinBB7]

As I kinda hate Bastion, seeing everyone talking about 5-6 hours to beat it, I checked on my library and notices that it took my 9 hours and now I'm wondering what the fuck I did for 3 hours in a game I hate.

I didn't like the game that much either but I played it twice I think to get all achievements since it was fairly easy to get.

 

[NingenJanai]

Calling it Tomb Raider was disingenuous and done for money reasons. I'd have been happier if the game had been called Lara Croft: Island Explorer.

Opening it up neatly for the sequel to be called Lara Croft: We Need To Go Deeper.

Sounds like a porn movie title.

 

[doniewhalberg]

Couldn't disagree more with some of this Tomb Raider chat, I loved that game. Real highlight, especially alongside Bioshock, Crysis and Dead Space around the same time earlier in the year. Tomb Raider 1 was my first playstation game on the christmas morning I got mine back in 1996 (seems so long ago, but I guess it must have been), I played them all as they came out, I still love this game. It's sure as shit better than where the franchise was with Angel Of Darkness or Underworld. Those were high budget bad games.

Really need to get the new one for PC.

 

[sprinkles]

I am having some kind of small problem. Since I had the 360-wireless controller, some Games dont recognize the analog-stick.

Like Giana Sisters. If I try to configure the controls, it wont recognize it and it just plays with the atrocious 360-digital pad.
Same with Ys. I played Ys 1 with the 360-controller and I could play it without any problem with the analog-stick, but when I started Ys 2... I also can only play with the D-Pad.

Anyone knows why that might be?

I had the same problem with Giana Sisters and the wireless 360 controller. My "fix" was to restart the game a few times and then it would work suddenly.

 

[Acccent]

Couldn't disagree more with some of this Tomb Raider chat, I loved that game. Real highlight, especially alongside Bioshock, Crysis and Dead Space around the same time earlier in the year. Tomb Raider 1 was my first playstation game on the christmas morning I got mine back in 1996 (seems so long ago, but I guess it must have been), I played them all as they came out, I still love this game. It's sure as shit better than where the franchise was with Angel Of Darkness or Underworld. Those were high budget bad games.

Well, those are in the same basket imo- really well made, perfectly tuned, beautiful games that are nevertheless fundamentally bad and bring nothing of value to the medium. It's not about their budget, it's about their lack of vision.

 

[Derrick01]

Thank god though, Il'l take TR's style of exploration like the shantytown and beach section's over original TR's style.

There was no exploration in Tomb Raider though. All it had were collectibles that served no purpose but to give you even more Xp to level you up when you don't even have to level in the game. It's bar filling at its finest.

 

[Dice]

Gotta love that Tomb Raider "exploration"

Oh hey, I can either take this left path, or the right path that converges to the same path 30 seconds later!

WOW! I can walk all the way around this building! And OH OH it looks like this only-part-I-can-climb leads to what was the immediately visible roof of that building to jump across to the only direction I can possibly go to further the game! And there are even all these pointless items to string me along that sole option for continuing in case I was too stupid to figure it out or push the instinct button to see it glowing bright yellow! What an incredible ancient village level!

 

[Knurek]

There was no exploration in Tomb Raider though. All it had were collectibles that served no purpose but to give you even more Xp to level you up when you don't even have to level in the game. It's bar filling at its finest.

But you got to explore deep psyche of Lara Croft's during her character development. :>

 

[Dice]

But you got to explore deep psyche of Lara Croft's during her character development. :>

Oh yes, what an amazing story and deep character.

"This sucks hard... but living is good, so I should try."
"Aw, I remembered that I like my friends. I hope they don't die."
"Wow, I never expected unpleasant adventures while exploring."

 

[Overdoziz]

Tomb Raider wasn't that special in my opinion, but it definitely had potential.

-First off, the entire idea of Lara having a hard time killing a deer is hilarious when you think that she murders a small town worth of people over the course of the next 15 hours. That disconnect between the story and gameplay just makes for a really weird experience, something which is the case in a lot of games these days. (See: Max Payne 3)

-Gameplay-wise I feel like the game could've used a lot more puzzles and platforming like in the old Tomb Raider games. There were barely any puzzles and the ones you did encounter were incredibly easy like the ones in the tombs.

-I was pleasantly surprised by how open certain parts of the game were, but sadly these areas weren't very well fleshed out. There was literally nothing else to do besides finding collectibles or do easy tombs, and both of these activities didn't reward you with anything unique but just more exp. It felt more like a grind to do those things more than anything. Hell, there rarely are even fights in the open areas. Usually you're in linear pathways when you fight against enemies which seems like a missed opportunity.

Overall as a game on its own it had its fair share of faults, but was still decent. As a Tomb Raider game it was definitely a disappointment, though.

 

[MJLord]

Tomb Raider wasn't that special in my opinion, but it definitely had potential.

-First off, the entire idea of Lara having a hard time killing a deer is hilarious when you think that she murders a small town worth of people over the course of the next 15 hours. That disconnect between the story and gameplay just makes for a really weird experience, something which is the case in a lot of games these days. (See: Max Payne 3)

For any of that to work they needed to have platforming as the primary mechanic rather than gunplay.

 

[Derrick01]

But you got to explore deep psyche of Lara Croft's during her character development. :>

My favorite part of her development was how she spent the first half of the game crying and whining about everything and then suddenly turns into a raging psychopath who's screaming at everyone and stabbing people in the head with a pickax.

 

[doniewhalberg]

Well, those are in the same basket imo- really well made, perfectly tuned, beautiful games that are nevertheless fundamentally bad and bring nothing of value to the medium. It's not about their budget, it's about their lack of vision.

Well, first I'll say, I was attempting to say Tomb Raider was above those, not equal as amazing as those, not sure how you took that haha, I wasn't attempting to imply they were all fantastic games too. Secondly, given the bold, I guess we just look at games differently. I think any game I down and play and enjoy brings plenty of value to the medium for myself, or wording it differently, I don't need a game to bring something to the medium as such to enjoy it. I played Tomb Raider and I thought "Huh. Kinda like Uncharted, the set pieces aren't quite as impressive, but I like the gunplay better, and they're made up for the first criticism by giving me wider more open levels". That was enough for me to say job well done, especially amongst all those other games coming out when I was looking at them all and looking for one to play that I'd really enjoy.

Don't get me wrong. Tomb Raider isn't really into the top group of games I consider my favourites, I prefer say Deus Ex, or Dishonored, or whatever. That doesn't mean it wasn't a great game that gave me some enjoyment. I can't say that makes it fundamentally bad or valueless. Differently strokes for different folks though, I appreciate what your saying, I'm not trying to deride it, jsut saying I disagree.

 

[wetflame]

My favorite part of her development was how she spent the first half of the game crying and whining about everything and then suddenly turns into a raging psychopath who's screaming at everyone and stabbing people in the head with a pickax.

I see this complaint a lot about the game, but I see the exact same thing all the time in horror/action films where someone is suddenly faced with a deadly threat forcing them into a "kill or be killed" situation. I guess that could mean that all those examples are terrible too, but I don't really see an inherent issue with her having a hard time killing something for the first time and then getting desensitised to the violence while going through a traumatic experience. Especially when your friends have been kidnapped and you're trying to get them back. I don't know. I had less of an issue with this than most people. Obviously it's a gameplay mechanic really as they wanted you to have enemies to kill, but it didn't seem jarring to me.

Edit: Would it be better if she was always "crying and whining" or if she never had an issue with it at all, like Drake in Uncharted?

 

[Joe Molotov]

My favorite part of her development was how she spent the first half of the game crying and whining about everything and then suddenly turns into a raging psychopath who's screaming at everyone and stabbing people in the head with a pickax.

It mirrors my own life in a lot of ways.

 

[Overdoziz]

For any of that to work they needed to have platforming as the primary mechanic rather than gunplay.

My other points work into that.

 

[toddhunter]

I don't know. I had less of an issue with this than most people. Obviously it's a gameplay mechanic really as they wanted you to have enemies to kill, but it didn't seem jarring to me.

It didn't worry me at all either, I just enjoyed the ride as much as I could.

What did bother me is that for all the damage that was done to her, which was a lot; all that seemed to hurt her was that damn spike through the stomach from the start of the game.

The whole game, still banging on about the spike through the stomach. I must have been shot a hundred times, blown up by grenades, seriously burnt.

But nah, can brush all that shit off. But ow my tummy hurts.

 

[Volcynika]

For JRPG loving Steam people: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=671017

Also Carpe Fulgur mentioned that Recettear has hit the 300K copies mark. o:

 

[YianGaruga]

Tomb Raider was OK, but it just failed to capture what made the original TR games good, namely the exploration and platforming

Here's hoping XSEED release Trails in the Sky 2 on Steam XO.

They will!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=671017

Steam definitely needed more TiTS.

Carpe Fulgur is working on it. That's really cool.

Edit: Oh come on.

 

[reptilescorpio]

My favorite part of her development was how she spent the first half of the game crying and whining about everything and then suddenly turns into a raging psychopath who's screaming at everyone and stabbing people in the head with a pickax.

Sounds like Spec Ops to me.

 

[toddhunter]

For JRPG loving Steam people: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=671017

Also Carpe Fulgur mentioned that Recettear has hit the 300K copies mark. o:

Works for me. Never played it, but I hear it is really good.

 

[Jawmuncher]

For JRPG loving Steam people: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=671017

Also Carpe Fulgur mentioned that Recettear has hit the 300K copies mark. o:

Wow that's great! Heard nothing but good things about it.

 

[Jawmuncher]

My favorite part of her development was how she spent the first half of the game crying and whining about everything and then suddenly turns into a raging psychopath who's screaming at everyone and stabbing people in the head with a pickax.

Don't remind me. The characterization in TR is almost offensive. That's coming from someone who usually turns a blind eye to that to.

Sorry for Double Post

 

[Deques]

For JRPG loving Steam people: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=671017

Also Carpe Fulgur mentioned that Recettear has hit the 300K copies mark. o:

More JRPG yay

 

[Arthea]

For JRPG loving Steam people: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=671017

Also Carpe Fulgur mentioned that Recettear has hit the 300K copies mark. o:

That's good news if it'll ever happen, I still have my doubts.

Totally deserved, everybody should play Recettear, one of the best indie titles ever! Nope, not kidding.

 

[Derrick01]

I see this complaint a lot about the game, but I see the exact same thing all the time in horror/action films where someone is suddenly faced with a deadly threat forcing them into a "kill or be killed" situation. I guess that could mean that all those examples are terrible too, but I don't really see an inherent issue with her having a hard time killing something for the first time and then getting desensitised to the violence while going through a traumatic experience. Especially when your friends have been kidnapped and you're trying to get them back. I don't know. I had less of an issue with this than most people. Obviously it's a gameplay mechanic really as they wanted you to have enemies to kill, but it didn't seem jarring to me.

Edit: Would it be better if she was always "crying and whining" or if she never had an issue with it at all, like Drake in Uncharted?

The problem is it happens like a switch flip and it happens in a single moment. She goes from person who's scared of killing wildlife and who throws up after shooting someone after never handling a gun before to Rambo in a couple of hours.

I wouldn't have really cared if they didn't spend years before the game came out telling us how super important their story was and then designed the gameplay around their bad story like a bunch of other recent AAA games.

Sounds like Spec Ops to me.

Nah he's pretty much doing crazy shit from the start. It's his squad mates who are always appalled at what he's doing.

 

[Atraveller]

The problem is it happens like a switch flip and it happens in a single moment. She goes from person who's scared of killing wildlife and who throws up after shooting someone after never handling a gun before to Rambo in a couple of hours.

I wouldn't have really cared if they didn't spend years before the game came out telling us how super important their story was and then designed the gameplay around their bad story like a bunch of other recent AAA games.

I remember a game which is worse at making the transition, Far Cry 3.

 

[TheGoddamn]

Through a combination of circumstances, I was unable to purchase the Humble Paradox Bundle. Might anyone have a spare copy I could purchase? I am kicking myself for missing out on Leviathan Warships. Much obliged!

EDIT: Shoot me a PM if you'd like.

 

[Tenrius]

The problem is it happens like a switch flip and it happens in a single moment. She goes from person who's scared of killing wildlife and who throws up after shooting someone after never handling a gun before to Rambo in a couple of hours.

I've read an argument somewhere that she had actually been training under some ex-Marine for several years prior to the events depicted in the game. So, according to the person who wrote that, the true essence of the story is that she knows how to kill people, hunt animals and all of that stuff very well, but she's never really done it before, and then she manages to overcome herself and even find some joy in it, which explains why the transition is so quick.

I'm not sure whether I agree with this though, as I've only played the game for a little bit and didn't particularly like what I saw, but it at least makes sense.

 

[Sullichin]

Getting horrible performance in Metro Last Light. No matter what I do - even low settings on 720p with no AA - the game eventually goes to about 15-20fps and stays there. Same thing on very high settings/1080p. I'll get nearly 60fps and it's great but after a few minutes it locks at a really low framerate. HD7950, i52500k, using the latest Catalyst beta because it's supposed to improve LL performance... anyone have any ideas?

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I see this complaint a lot about the game, but I see the exact same thing all the time in horror/action films where someone is suddenly faced with a deadly threat forcing them into a "kill or be killed" situation. I guess that could mean that all those examples are terrible too, but I don't really see an inherent issue with her having a hard time killing something for the first time and then getting desensitised to the violence while going through a traumatic experience. Especially when your friends have been kidnapped and you're trying to get them back. I don't know. I had less of an issue with this than most people. Obviously it's a gameplay mechanic really as they wanted you to have enemies to kill, but it didn't seem jarring to me.

Edit: Would it be better if she was always "crying and whining" or if she never had an issue with it at all, like Drake in Uncharted?

I think I agree with this. The psychopathy problem has become a very fashionable complaint, but most people who offer it don't go any deeper than reciting it as a superficial criticism.

I'm not saying I loved Tomb Raider, but I had enough fun with it to finish it. It didn't bother me at all that she was burying an axe in people's heads. You kill your first guy, you feel sick about it. You have to kill more. You can't feel sick every time so you adapt. Then anger and mass slaughter. It's fine.

 

[Fuu]

I've read an argument somewhere that she had actually been training under some ex-Marine for several years prior to the events depicted in the game. So, according to the person who wrote that, the true essence of the story is that she knows how to kill people, hunt animals and all of that stuff very well, but she's never really done it before, and then she manages to overcome herself and even find some joy in it, which explains why the transition is so quick.

I'm not sure whether I agree with this though, as I've only played the game for a little bit and didn't particularly like what I saw, but it at least makes sense.

Yes, Conrad Roth, her mentor in the game, is an ex-Royal Marine. She tells him how "scarily easy" it was to kill a person the first time they talk about the fact she had to kill human beings.

The game is actually consistent in that Lara is kind of a sociopath who discovers she doesn't care about anyone who's not her close friend or personal acquaintance, all heightened by the increasingly fucked up situation she's into. She "whines" very little (if at all) and whenever she's expressing suffering it's from physical pain or when she's afraid someone close to her is about to die.

 

[Grief.exe]

So PC has the largest next-gen install base by quite a large margin.

With MGSV and Destiny being such massive investments from their respective companies you gotta believe a PC version is in the works.

Why are they jerking us around then? You want PC gamers on your side at this point.

Just thinking out loud here, I really want Destiny andGSV on PC. I also have very little faith in Ubisoft for Division. Just looking at the Watch Dogs footage from announcement to now is a complete joke.

 

[Overdoziz]

So PC has the largest next-gen install base by quite a large margin.

With MGSV and Destiny being such massive investments from their respective companies you gotta believe a PC version is in the works.

Why are they jerking us around then? You want PC gamers on your side at this point.

Just thinking out loud here, I really want Destiny andGSV on PC. I also have very little faith in Ubisoft for Division. Just looking at the Watch Dogs footage from announcement to now is a complete joke.

I want Destiny on PC just for the screenshots. I wonder what the odds of them including a theater mode like in Halo are, though.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Suggest 3 of these games for me. Something I would like. I don't have much indie experience:


Braid
Limbo
Mark of the Ninja
Everyday Shooter
Dustforce
FTL
Guacamalee Gold edition
Hotline Miami
Deathspank
Torchlight 1

 

[Acccent]

Well, first I'll say, I was attempting to say Tomb Raider was above those, not equal as amazing as those, not sure how you took that haha, I wasn't attempting to imply they were all fantastic games too. Secondly, given the bold, I guess we just look at games differently. I think any game I down and play and enjoy brings plenty of value to the medium for myself, or wording it differently, I don't need a game to bring something to the medium as such to enjoy it. I played Tomb Raider and I thought "Huh. Kinda like Uncharted, the set pieces aren't quite as impressive, but I like the gunplay better, and they're made up for the first criticism by giving me wider more open levels". That was enough for me to say job well done, especially amongst all those other games coming out when I was looking at them all and looking for one to play that I'd really enjoy.

Don't get me wrong. Tomb Raider isn't really into the top group of games I consider my favourites, I prefer say Deus Ex, or Dishonored, or whatever. That doesn't mean it wasn't a great game that gave me some enjoyment. I can't say that makes it fundamentally bad or valueless. Differently strokes for different folks though, I appreciate what your saying, I'm not trying to deride it, jsut saying I disagree.

I see what you mean, but yeah, that's an opinion I can't agree with. I mean, I'm ok with people enjoying and loving games that are simply fun and just do things we've already seen but do them well; but seeing them get top marks everywhere leads, I think, to stagnation and downwards levelling - it conveys to publishers the message that yeah, we don't want more than that, we're perfectly fine with more of the same. Well, you, as an individual, aren't doing anything wrong of course, and you obviously have the right to enjoy whatever games you do enjoy and that's pefectly fine by me haha, but seeing this reasoning applied in the press is sad - you don't see specialized film magazine showering White House Down with praise.

 

[Grief.exe]

The problem is it happens like a switch flip and it happens in a single moment. She goes from person who's scared of killing wildlife and who throws up after shooting someone after never handling a gun before to Rambo in a couple of hours.

I haven't played the game, but I have heard this argument plenty of times before.

My thoughts on this issue is sometimes you have to sacrifice realism for gameplay reasons. Could the transition have been handled better? Probably, but the game needs to hook you quickly on both story and gameplay.
She can't run around crying in corners for hours in-game, she needs to learn to kill people quickly to catch the attention of the audience.

Another common example of this is reloading in FPS games. When you reload a magazine with 15 rounds left, you would generally lose those rounds. Games take out the realism and monotony of having to reload magazines properly in the interest of gameplay.

 

[Overdoziz]

Suggest 3 of these games for me. Something I would like. I don't have much indie experience:


Braid
Limbo
Mark of the Ninja
Everyday Shooter
Dustforce
FTL
Guacamalee Gold edition
Hotline Miami
Deathspank
Torchlight 1

Definitely Hotline Miami.

 

[Baha]

Suggest 3 of these games for me. Something I would like. I don't have much indie experience:


Braid
Limbo
Mark of the Ninja
Everyday Shooter
Dustforce
FTL
Guacamalee Gold edition
Hotline Miami
Deathspank
Torchlight 1

Hotline Miami and FTL for sure.

 

[FauX]

Suggest 3 of these games for me. Something I would like. I don't have much indie experience:


Braid
Limbo
Mark of the Ninja
Everyday Shooter
Dustforce
FTL
Guacamalee Gold edition
Hotline Miami
Deathspank
Torchlight 1

Mark of the Ninja
FTL
Hotline or Guacamelee, your call

 

[chronomac]

Suggest 3 of these games for me. Something I would like. I don't have much indie experience:


Braid
Limbo
Mark of the Ninja
Everyday Shooter
Dustforce
FTL
Guacamalee Gold edition
Hotline Miami
Deathspank
Torchlight 1

FTL, Guacamelee, and Braid. Three pretty different games. Torchlight is my fourth pick.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

Hotline Miami and FTL for sure.

These two at least.

 

[fantomena]

Mark of the Ninja
FTL
Hotline Miami

.

 

[Grief.exe]

Suggest 3 of these games for me. Something I would like. I don't have much indie experience:


Braid
Limbo
Mark of the Ninja
Everyday Shooter
Dustforce
FTL
Guacamalee Gold edition
Hotline Miami
Deathspank
Torchlight 1

The best games of the last couple years are Mark of the Ninja, Hotline Miami, and FTL. Those games made many GOTY lists.
Guacamelee looks pretty awesome if you ask me.

 

[webrunner]

Suggest 3 of these games for me. Something I would like. I don't have much indie experience:


Braid
Limbo
Mark of the Ninja
Everyday Shooter
Dustforce
FTL
Guacamalee Gold edition
Hotline Miami
Deathspank
Torchlight 1

FTL
Braid
Torchlight if you like Diablo type games otherwise Mark of the Ninja

 

[derExperte]

New Shadow Warrior Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmJIgRMjHWs&feature=youtu.be

The more I see the more I'm looking forward to this.

 

[Sullichin]

Suggest 3 of these games for me. Something I would like. I don't have much indie experience:


Braid
Limbo
Mark of the Ninja
Everyday Shooter
Dustforce
FTL
Guacamalee Gold edition
Hotline Miami
Deathspank
Torchlight 1

Guacamelee
Hotline Miami
Mark of the Ninja

 

[Overdoziz]

I haven't played the game, but I have heard this argument plenty of times before.

My thoughts on this issue is sometimes you have to sacrifice realism for gameplay reasons. Could the transition have been handled better? Probably, but the game needs to hook you quickly on both story and gameplay.
She can't run around crying in corners for hours in-game, she needs to learn to kill people quickly to catch the attention of the audience.

Another common example of this is reloading in FPS games. When you reload a magazine with 15 rounds left, you would generally lose those rounds. Games take out the realism and monotony of having to reload magazines properly in the interest of gameplay.

It's not so much realism as it is believability. The story takes itself way too serious for the gameplay that the game itself has which causes this strange disconnect between these two aspects of the game. This is becoming more and more common in gaming now that games try their hand at dramatic, serious and 'gritty' storylines in games where in the past stories in games weren't really a thing or they were outright silly. I think having games trying to have more serious storyline is great, but when the gameplay simply doesn't match it just doesn't work. It's like two different stories are told simultaneously and that's why more games need to tell their stories through gameplay mechanics more properly. Something which hardly any developers have done well so far.

 

[Acccent]

Suggest 3 of these games for me. Something I would like. I don't have much indie experience:


Braid
Limbo
Mark of the Ninja
Everyday Shooter
Dustforce
FTL
Guacamalee Gold edition
Hotline Miami
Deathspank
Torchlight 1

If you haven't played Braid and don't have much indie experience, you must start with this. It is maybe the most influential game in the "indie revolution" of the recent years, along with Cave Story probably.

Then, pick two among FTL, Hotline Miami, MotN and Limbo - they all offer something you've probably never experienced before, while the other games are interesting but their concepts aren't as new.

 

[woo and indeed hoo]

Suggest 3 of these games for me. Something I would like. I don't have much indie experience:

How long's a piece of string?

Braid - I have a hate/love relationship with this game. I respect what it is doing but if find it all a bit too intellectual and clinical for my tastes.
Limbo - adore it. There is a Steam demo which I recommend you try.
Mark of the Ninja - not played it
Everyday Shooter - not played it
Dustforce - not played it
FTL - I was gifted this and adored what little I played but am saving it for a rainy day when my backlog is smaller as I fear I shall lose myself to it. It is apparently very hard though.
Guacamalee Gold edition - not played it
Hotline Miami - bloody hard and I'm useless at it. It's good though.
Deathspank - not played it
Torchlight 1 - I think this is free on GOG but I've not played it yet