dang shadow-kun you're super bitchy tonight lol
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steam | April 2015 - Orange, you glad its morningbus? No.
- Thread starter morningbus
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dang shadow-kun you're super bitchy tonight lol
You know when you start to boil down the core gameplay loops, world interaction and story beats of Just Cause 2 and Mordor, they're pretty similar to each other. Calling Mad Max the next Mordor might not be that far off if Avalanche are bringing some of the JC design with it and even more so when you see the melee combat looks like a poor man's Arkham ripoff, just like Mordor.
I want to believe that you'd intended to type "ass" but your phone auto-corrected it to "AssCreed".
lashman
Steam-GAF's Official Ambassador to Gaming-GAF
nope ... only your phone does that
I've taught it well.
There's that freaky thing though
I have yet to obtain this persona - maybe it's time to finish my P4G playthrough
I'm really nice. What are you talking about? The more I tease someone, the more I like/respect them.
No it was on purpose. It was too good to pass up. Have you played AssCreed China yet?
Nah. Told myself I'd play it after Rogue in an effort to force me to finish the bloody thing.
You can only get Beelzebub through Persona Fusion (might be Star or 8-Way Fusion) and then you need specific Persona's and the Devil Social Link at maximum. So you'd be in it for the long haul but a Beelzebub, Lucifer and Satan triple combo stomps the last dungeon (especially if you've rerolled your Fusion to transfer the right skills).
One day Atlus will have something on Steam other than their published titles.
ashecitism
Member
That's mostly up to the dev/pub I'm affraid. Valve isn't going to force anyone to set it to something better, they're not gonna set a rule about it. In this case Bethesda determined they deserve 40%, leaving the modder with 25%. Valve is taking their 30% and service providers like Blender and Nexus can get from the remaining 5%, if the modder ticks the boxes. If not, that goes to Valve.
So, if you want it to be better Valve first needs to set a proper minimum for the modders and takes less than 30% (35%), so that devs/pubs get something and feel inticed to support it otherwise they wouldn't get much. Like if modders got 60% and Valve took their 30%, then yeah, wouldn't be much incentive for them and would be frankly, insulting.
jaundicejuice
Member
That's pretty nuts, especially when you consider they've spent over a decade doing nothing but earning the goodwill of gamers. This is one of the first times they've honestly stumbled and engendered such a negative response. I think expanding TF2 hat'nomics to mods in general was earnestly and naively done. I mean people are making cosmetics mods for profit in Dota 2 and TF2, people make maps and can be paid in TF2 through stamps. But then maps made by modders in TF2 are completely free and weren't gated behind a paywall, payment was optional. They're literally just trying to apply the same business model to mods in general but it seems they've gone about it in the worst way possible.
I've come to term that there are place for professional modders. And crazily, I kinda feel Valve 35% (sans service provider) is the biggest ripoff here not Bethesda 40%.
Valve didn't lock the game right? I hope there's another platform that give similar service but without 35% cut, 10 or 15 will be reasonable. But that will be publishers' say I guess, doubt they want to bother doing it.
If only the test game is TES Online, it will get much better support I'm sure. They are shooting themselves on the foot this time.
toddhunter
Member
Should be a ban on Valve talk in this thread.
I'm not a cat person but I do like my overly silly plots and terrible puns, voted. Thank you for sharing it woth us ;3
... . . . ...
Kiru
Member
It was not free. It was just a giveaway and not everyone won...I always miss those freebies (눈_눈
why do you fail me so steamgaf?
Atraveller
Banned
In the steam thread?
Naked Snake
Member
Still funny.
Are people really selling mods that are not their own? I haven't been following this at all, seems like this has been a bigger clusterfuck than I thought, maybe I should peek in that thread.
jaundicejuice
Member
I'm pretty sure it's been stated that this is the same way that cosmetic submissions for TF2 and Dota 2 work. Correct me if I'm wrong because I can't site any source beyond seeing it mentioned in another thread on the same subject. Why is it that the 25%, if this figure is correct, for making Dota or TF2 hats is acceptable, but is greedy and exploitative when it comes to mods?
Let's play Devil's Advocate here, games cost hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars and years to make, by teams ranging up to the hundreds. Why should you, a modder, be allowed to make any money off of a product you yourself did not have a hand in creating?
It's nuts that Valve got another company to even agree to this. I mean look at how many fan projects other companies like Nintendo or SquareEnix shut down.
Ban Puncher
Member
FINALLY
My first complain is the game is not free to play.
Another complain, is I don't feel Valve deserve the 35% cut. Yeah, I said it, I don't want them to see a penny of it. That's too much. Arguing about server cost? I don't buy it sorry. Nexus manage supporting theirs just by donation, premium member, and ads. They also create a good mod managing software for free.
Bethesda should just make their own mod distribution channel and share 60% Modder 40% Bethesda.
I will still use Steam for all my digital game needs, for mod needs? Nah, not a penny. I stick with mods outside Workshop. Those who want to buy it on Workshop is still cool, though. It's their money after all.
This whole debacle is also a wake up call for me to start donating.
You know what, an alpaca dating simulator could be fun.
lashman
Steam-GAF's Official Ambassador to Gaming-GAF
Before anyone asks
or this
A year ago would have been unimaginable.
actually - it got much "better"
Tizoc
Member
for some reason i could never get into just cause 2
i tried it i think twice but it never really do it for me
-__-
as someone that could be for actually rewarding the creatives that are working on these mods i just don't feel like giving most of my money to the people that didn't really do anything
modders should get the 60% (or whatever), not the other way around. if it was like that, i'd think much differently.
edit: it's uselses to talk about valve as being evil or whatever, and like i said i think they're more misguided than anything else. gabe says they lost a lot of money in dealing with the backlash, and they made very little money (seriously like 10k or something). imagine if it was 50% bethesda, 50% modders and valve just ate the hosting costs. they're still getting people on the store and engaged on steam so it's still a win for valve. with cool publishers like paradox maybe it'll be like 70% for modders, 30% for the dev/pub. to me publishers and valve deserve very little, if anything, but it's progress. and valve wouldn't be spending am illion or whatever answering angry mails or whatever (tho no doubt ppl are still gonna be mad about having to pay for things that used to be free)
stop being silly valve, if you care about modders, protect them
i don't really play valve games so not really sure what to say about that other than it sounds to me that hat makers should make the majority of the money as well
in fact, i pretty much believe valve/beth/whoever shouldn't get any money outside of minimum hosting costs
edit: is that super far fetched in the fucked up world we lived in? yeah, unfortunately. but if you ask me that's how it should be. the only reason i didn't say anything about hats or whatever is because it didn't really concern me. if this was about league of legends skins i'd think the same, the people doing the real work should get most of the money, the people that don't do shit well they shouldn't really get all that much
i mean, imo the mod being something the modder made and the original company had nothing to do with it makes it the modder's right to sell. you're improving their work and adding value to it, that's your way of repaying valve, bethesda, or whatever
a lot of people buy arma so they can play dayz, or whatever (i know it's a weird case because the guy that made dayz works at the developer but i've been up all night and it's all i can think of right now edit:and i'm also a bit drunk)
and seriously when has copyright or whatever been actually of any good for creators and not for big companies just making more money
Chairmanchuck
Member
I played a bit of Shadow of Mordor now (about 4-5 hours).
Feels somehow generic and I can not understand how many thought it might be GOTY material.
A question about the red sidequests. They are infinite?
Feels somehow generic and I can not understand how many thought it might be GOTY material.
A question about the red sidequests. They are infinite?
Atraveller
Banned
Looks like shit honestly.
If we are really doing paid mods, then game devs should take a cut, but the current cut is bonkers. Yeah, modders are adding appeal to games, but most of the time they are using devs' tools and assets to build those mods, they owe some of their work to the devs.
Yeah it's pretty crazy how fast people have turned on Valve. They've made a few missteps in the past few years that have pissed off portions of their community (not shipping Diretide and not telling anyone with Dota 2, Not shipping the map CP_Snowplow and only having cosmetic stuff with the TF2 End of the Line update) but never anything quite like this.
As much as I love Valve (and TF2, which is my favorite game of all time) they certainly aren't perfect. Hopefully this incident, along with the Dota2 and TF2 incidents will cause them to rethink they way they handle some things. Valve has deservedly built up a lot of good will over the past decade, however they have been burning it off fast with some bad decisions.
Well just wrapped Up Wolf: TNO. Damn, that ending. Might playthrough the other timeline after The Old Blood is out and I'm finished with that.
Well like Mordor, JC2 requires you to fuck about with the world in order to progress the story. In Mordor it was the Captains where as JC2 it was causing enough Chaos. They both hinge on bow much you get out of the interactions with their open worlds which are both large but relatively empty. I've got 10 hours in JC2 and I can't really bring myself to play any more due to finding progression tedious to say the least.
Well like Mordor, JC2 requires you to fuck about with the world in order to progress the story. In Mordor it was the Captains where as JC2 it was causing enough Chaos. They both hinge on bow much you get out of the interactions with their open worlds which are both large but relatively empty. I've got 10 hours in JC2 and I can't really bring myself to play any more due to finding progression tedious to say the least.
Atraveller
Banned
Different timeline just gives you a different mini game, and replaces one character with another.
Tizoc
Member
Simple gameplay wins people over, that and people not bothering to look at some indie or lower priced games to find some actual interesting gameplay ideas.
I do find the Nemesis system really nice in Moredoors though.
abracadaver
Member
Gamersgate now has Defense Grid 2 for 3,45 (-85%)
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-DG2/dg2-defense-grid-2
very good price
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-DG2/dg2-defense-grid-2
very good price
Chairmanchuck
Member
To me Mordor just feels like a typical modern AAA game right now. Nothing much to interact with, a bit of a Ubisoft-esque feel and like the devs just mixed everything that "casual" players enjoy right now.
Yeah. It is nice, but nothing more than that. The gameplay itself really feels like the devs took a look at what "casual" people (like my brother) love to play (Batman, AC, other Ubisoft "collectathons) and developed the game like that. I dont find it challenging at all and the gameplay itself feels like something I already played 100 times in the last 5 years.
i mean there's two parts here
there's an ideology (or whatever) part in which i think the person that makes something deserves the results of that no matter what he or she used. that's ideological and overrides like "terms of service" or like whatever. i think royalties and shit have proven ineffective in consistently rewarding creatives (music industry or whatever) and that big guys bully little guys into shitty deals (new vegas), etc. so yea, if someone created something, that creation is theirs for them to do as they please. that's how i think things should be, and that applies to mods, games, music, whatever you want
the more realistic version would be that there's really no way around royalties in the world we live in so it would be nice if valve being the people putting this together actually guaranteed that modders/creators/whatever don't get screwed. maybe it's not 60%, but 25% is too little. make a better deal
i don't know how possible that is, but if you ask me about right and wrong that's what i think, and since the way valve put this was "a new way to support my favorite modders" (or whatever) then i think that's what it should be
edit: so basically, i disagree with what you say, i think the devs aren't entitled to anything. i'm not saying this legally or whatever, just saying this in an "ethics" (or whatever) way.
yeah pretty much, i played a few hours and had a bit of fun with gliding about and blowing up shit but a) i didn't find that to be as much fun as i hoped for, b) i got tired of it quickly and c) there wasn't anything else!
like, i love saints row 3 and that game doesn't have great gameplay or anything, but the constant stream of comedy really kept me going. or gta 4, the combat is shit, driving is not that great, but liberty city is so fucking amazing that i love just walking around and trying public transportation, just being marveled looking at it all work
i didn't play mordor and i'm casually interested in the nemesis thing as being that "something else" that i need to get into open world games
Well I'm only 51% complete and that's going to nag at me unless I go back and grab the rest of the collectables. Seems the the perfect time to see the differences if only minor.
Yeah I played a bit of Shadow of Mordor a few months back, I got to the second map but I gave up, I just wasn't feeling it. Aside from the Nemesis system it did feel really generic
Atraveller
Banned
Forgot to add, there's another character in the safe house that is also different.
Visualante2
Member
Valve really needs to introduce the 24 hour refund policy like Origin. A friend bought GTA V uninformed and couldn't run it. It's a real shame to see people make expensive mistakes like this.
I've thought about making a thread asking what will Valve screw up next? as a general response to paid mods, $5 fee
I've thought about making a thread asking what will Valve screw up next? as a general response to paid mods, $5 fee
That sounds like a nice addition.
Where are the screw ups? Actually you might want to add "Source 2 being free not including the requirement to launch on Steam" as a screw up. I remember there was a thread with a lot of angry people in it.
Jawmuncher
Member
I'm way hotter
Game is looking great, can't wait :3
You disappoint me.
ashecitism
Member
Well, I don't recall if there ever was a big outrage about that. Some of those people make 5-6 figures even with 25%. I think we have a couple of gaffers who are well-known and successful content creators, so maybe ask them how they feel about that. But yeah, when I first heard it I thought it was too little.
And let's not forget about the elephant in the room. "Valve isn't making games!". Which we know why people are saying. But that's a big root of the bitterness for lots of fans.
People were angry because they misunderstood the requirement. You don't have to sell your game on Steam exclusively, just in addition to elsewhere.
Nope. There were poster after poster being mad that they are forced to give 30% to Valve instead of 5% UE4 asks all this while acknowledging that Steam is not the only place you can sell at. "But not everyone wants to be on Steam!" etc. Of course there's always so much misinformation flying around when community decides to be enraged about something. So it was with $5 spend for full account and paid mods too.
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