If they have issues they are free to go on console market. They will have worst visibility, they will need to deal with certification and dev kits and much more.
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STEAM | June 2015 - Wait for the Steam Sale Thread You Bastards!
- Thread starter jshackles
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If they have issues they are free to go on console market. They will have worst visibility, they will need to deal with certification and dev kits and much more.
anyone willing to help me out with the ebay steam cards thing? would like to get two $50 steam cards
thanks
i don't care about length
rice ratio but it's just not a great game. it's one of those few that you might actually play through it and want to return it cos by the end you didn't have fun and it didn't really leave much of a lasting impression on you
but those are legit flaws with the game and imo good enough reasons to ask for a refund (i wouldn't cos i thought it was interesting but u know..)
valve already abuses its monopoly status enough, so i hope they still consider the concerns of these developers, even if they'll dismiss those concerns later because they're kind of unfounded
i just don't think there's much you can do to make a game like stranded "special". you can't reduce the playtime to like 15 minutes, and maybe you could lock ppl out of refunding it when they beat it but i feel like the game should warn you somehow then or something?
the stranded dev talks about price but how would that work with sales and even his own game isn't that cheap
thanks
stranded in particular is a weird game. it has a ton of backtracking for a game with like 5 screens in it and the walking speed is super slow for a game in which all you do is walking, but all of that is deliberate so i'm fine with it. but yeah, the mouse detection being shit in a game like this is pretty unforgivable and it's not that amazing of a game either. it's not awful but clearly doesn't do its concept justice, in no small part cos it's so short, so there's no build up or tension or anything.
i don't care about length
rice ratio but it's just not a great game. it's one of those few that you might actually play through it and want to return it cos by the end you didn't have fun and it didn't really leave much of a lasting impression on youbut those are legit flaws with the game and imo good enough reasons to ask for a refund (i wouldn't cos i thought it was interesting but u know..)
damn these developers are gross
i don't think this is the right attitude tho
valve already abuses its monopoly status enough, so i hope they still consider the concerns of these developers, even if they'll dismiss those concerns later because they're kind of unfounded
i just don't think there's much you can do to make a game like stranded "special". you can't reduce the playtime to like 15 minutes, and maybe you could lock ppl out of refunding it when they beat it but i feel like the game should warn you somehow then or something?
the stranded dev talks about price but how would that work with sales and even his own game isn't that cheap
Atraveller
Banned
You know you've failed as a developer if most of your income relies on impulse buys right?
derExperte
Member
There have to be limits and based on experiences in the past you'll get fucked if they're too lenient. We for example know that the 14-days policy for products ordered online in the EU gets abused to hell and back which has become a huge problem for many smaller retailers, Amazon can eat the costs, they can't.
Too many refunds? Make better threads.
I accidentally a too.
AHA-Lambda
Member
And we're the entitled ones >_>
Looks like refunds are the next big boogeyman after used games. And how pathetic does that sound? That refunds are a bad thing -_-
Valve already gave them option to sell their Steamworks game outside of Steam and they won;t charge them for keys. And for product purchased outside of Steam there is no Refund policy. Also Valve asked devs for feedback as far as i know so they are listening. i also think that this is initial wave and that it doesn't reflect real state not to mention that Refund policy is announced week before sales.
The Red Wizard
Member
I literally just finished playing and I was wondering if any of SteamGaf played because no one on my friends list was online and the OT list is too huge to add. I'll add you later today.
i mean, saying "you can also sell your game outside of steam!" isn't really a solution, steam being a monopoly and shit u know
but i do agree this is gonna die out because it makes no sense
the kind of ppl that buy games like stranded are either the ones that wouldn't refund it because it's a type of game they want to support, or they're impulse buyers, in which case they might not even play it for the two weeks to be able to return it, or if they do, they get their legit choice to return it if they felt it wasn't for them
and like the ppl that just think about exploiting the system should just make a better use of their time and just pirate the damn games
saves us all trouble
http://www.pcgamer.com/dungeon-of-the-endless-gets-a-free-tf2-themed-update/
Is this timed or do I have them forever? (When I go get them that is)
Is this timed or do I have them forever? (When I go get them that is)
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I just want to say that even though Steam has monopoly it still gives devs much more freedom and choice than other services and platforms.
pretty sure forever
might be true, but it's far from perfect, and i'm not a fan of the whole google thing of trying to take over everything (streaming, vr, mods, hardware)
derExperte
Member
IGS's current $1 deal is btw Grey Cubes (Breakout clone, Steam key): https://indiegamestand.com/deal/
so if it's the best place to be, or rather the best one of very limited choices, they just have to roll over and take any abuse without a word? Would you do so if your income was at stake? just curious
Let's say your employers decided that your clients can subtract from your paycheck if they feel like it in 14 days time, no reasons given, I don't like him or I haven't even seen him would do.
Yes.
It's not the first time that he says something like this. If you hate your audience, do something else. I also don't think that simply making a thing, anything, and selling it on Steam entitles you to be successful or earn a living wage, which is something many devs believe. Making something that enough people want to pay for does. If people don't like what you're doing you should probably find a different job and make games as a hobby.
These guys roll down the slippery slope faster than a Fox News pundit.
I thought you guys are the one who is pretty critical Steam didn't have refund policy.
Now it finally have, in compliance with LAW, it looks like Steam the big bully again. I am confused, really.
Anyway, I thought other major store already have refund policy before Steam. Like Origin, GoG, etc. What happened there with their refund?
Now it finally have, in compliance with LAW, it looks like Steam the big bully again. I am confused, really.
Anyway, I thought other major store already have refund policy before Steam. Like Origin, GoG, etc. What happened there with their refund?
The question is does Valve even able to get rid of it? Isn't it law of some sort? Do it or get sued kind of thing.
Couldn't resists picking up a $100 Steam card with that Best Buy deal. Add that to my $50 from selling cards already in the wallet, and I should be good through Summer 2016 if the discounts are shit.
If Rocksmith DLC is discounted at 50% or greater, I might blow through my funds pretty quick though.
If Rocksmith DLC is discounted at 50% or greater, I might blow through my funds pretty quick though.
way to miss a point entirely, refunds are fine, the way they are handled on steam seems not to be. And that's not what law demands, this policy is good for users, too good to be true, in fact, but bad for some devs.
gog refund policy for comparison:
see the difference?
edited: there is no way that you can finish the game and get refund for it.
Chairmanchuck
Member
I think right now people and Valve refund almost everything.
Did not like the game? Refund.
Buy a game to try out the refund function? Refund.
Wanna get some money back for summer sale? Refund.
I think this whole refund thing will blow over very quick. I'm sure if you look at metrics, there is not a large percentage of games being returned.
While it's not entirely the same (for devs), Gamestop has a 7 day return policy on used games for any reason. They've had it in place for years. You'd think if it was killing their bottom line with people returning used games left and right, they'd stop giving refunds.
While it's not entirely the same (for devs), Gamestop has a 7 day return policy on used games for any reason. They've had it in place for years. You'd think if it was killing their bottom line with people returning used games left and right, they'd stop giving refunds.
(I don't think any of customers are against refunds. It's just some devs.)
Steam's refund policy is far above what is needed by laws. Laws require only refunds for broken digital downloads. (ie. you can't get refund because you didn't like it, like it's possible to do for unused physical items).
I guess two hours can be pretty generous for short games, but that should be really reflected on price.
There's easier way to get games for free, if that's what you want.
There will always be jerks that will try to scum and Valve should be on watch for first few months. But devs are now jumping to conclusion too soon. We have many complains from small devs but also we have small devs who told us that there is no difference for their games. I am not saying that there is not potential issue but it is too soon to talk about that after only 7 days.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Of course it is too soon. I agree with that. But even on GAF there were people trying to refund a lot of games, because "Just bought it a few months ago, but havent played it yet. And I need some summer sale money." And somehow even the games bought half a year ago were refunded.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
One of the differences between GoG's policy and Steam's is that Steam itself has digital rights layers added to most game exes, making it more difficult to access games you've refunded. GoG prides itself on being DRM-free, so they need to take the stance of "If you've downloaded it already, you forfeit the right to a no-questions-asked refund." Steam doesn't give quite that much freedom, so they have a little more leeway with what they can offer in terms of consumer rights without having to worry about being a Piracy substitute.
Curiously, GoG.com is located in EU, which is where many are citing the consumer practice of returning anything for any reason. The digital nature of their goods makes it tricky to fully adhere to those laws.
You sure about that? I saw someone posted that the 14 days refund window in EU are no question asked kind.
I've noticed that people, journalists in particular, get caught up on the micro perspective whenever there is some kind of change. Someone is always slipping through the cracks and people dig out those examples as a reason to take down the system.
They rarely realize that from the macro perseoctice, those people slipping through the cracks are negligible.
Just finished Brothers - A tale of two Sons
The ending is sad
Such a good game.
YianGaruga
Banned
I never expected that refunds would become such an issue for some people. Valve just can't win, some people hate everything they do.
kung fury was kind of fun but i'm really tired of power glove references, and the whole post processing filters just gave me a headache
overall i wish they had done an 80s action movie rather than a parody of one, but that's just me
overall i wish they had done an 80s action movie rather than a parody of one, but that's just me
yup, valve finally does something that's legitimately awesome for most ppl and there's still complaining
Thatakes me wonder too. Wasn't the timeframe 2 weeks since the buy?
only if you never used what you are returning, yeah, it totally works this way.
Just finished Brothers - A tale of two Sons
The ending is sad
Game was my 2013 GOTY
The ending was really sad
Chairmanchuck
Member
There are quite a lot of grey areas about this law. Like if you buy it without having a purchase intention and just want to use it (lets say a DVD) for "renting" and watching it once, it would be a bit tricky in a court.
There are still a lot of people who use this 14 day refund period for shitty things. "Rent" 6 different lenses for a camera from Amazon for a weekend in your favorite city.
I kinda think right now they are overwhelmed with how many refund processes they have to work on. I mean for Greenlight there were 2 people employed...
So I dont think every case can be checked individually.
I just finished The Witcher 3. Wow. What a game.
128 hours, Death March difficulty, every quest done except for two
, crafted every Witcher gear and had almost all potions and whatnot.
What I loved: story, characters and choices. Essentially what I love The Witcher games for.
Geralt is much more responsive this time around, combat on land was pretty good.
At sea, though... bleah. I guess CDPR knew that going at sea was totally boring and those sirens were annoying as hell and that's why they gave us the options to buy the maps from merchants. Best purchase ever.
I did get the XP bug before the patch, I was worried that I wouldn't reach level 35 before the end of the game, but I did on the very last mission, thankfully.
Oh, upgrading Witcher sets and finding the schematics around was a pretty great idea, I loved searching and upgrading. I hope they'll tweak the weight limit, though. 160 is still pretty low, if one wants to have all three Witcher sets at any time.
I had no idea what to do with all the money, though. I think I ended the game with more than 70K orens, and that's after buying a lot of Greater gliphs just because I could...
Anyway, all in all, it was one of the best games I've ever played. I love the world of The Witcher and I'm glad that CD Projekt was once again able to do it justice.
edit: I forgot about Gwent! I loved the game. Much, much better than the dice poker. One of the best mini-games I've played, with Pazaak of course.
128 hours, Death March difficulty, every quest done except for two
why can't I talk about statuines with someone other than Triss?!
What I loved: story, characters and choices. Essentially what I love The Witcher games for.
Geralt is much more responsive this time around, combat on land was pretty good.
At sea, though... bleah. I guess CDPR knew that going at sea was totally boring and those sirens were annoying as hell and that's why they gave us the options to buy the maps from merchants. Best purchase ever.
I did get the XP bug before the patch, I was worried that I wouldn't reach level 35 before the end of the game, but I did on the very last mission, thankfully.
Oh, upgrading Witcher sets and finding the schematics around was a pretty great idea, I loved searching and upgrading. I hope they'll tweak the weight limit, though. 160 is still pretty low, if one wants to have all three Witcher sets at any time.
I had no idea what to do with all the money, though. I think I ended the game with more than 70K orens, and that's after buying a lot of Greater gliphs just because I could...
Anyway, all in all, it was one of the best games I've ever played. I love the world of The Witcher and I'm glad that CD Projekt was once again able to do it justice.
edit: I forgot about Gwent! I loved the game. Much, much better than the dice poker. One of the best mini-games I've played, with Pazaak of course.
DVDs are sealed and once you unseal, refund period ends.
Also I guess you can do that so many times until Amazon/retailer stops selling to you, thought.
YianGaruga
Banned
Not true. Amazon for example takes back pretty much anything, no questions asked, even opened games. Other stores still have to take back what you bought but are allowed to refund you less when you used the item. I would be fine with a small % fee based on your playtime when you return games on Steam as well. Maybe scaling from 0% to 30% or something.
NingenJanai
Member
Just finished Brothers - A tale of two Sons
The ending is sad
The bird scene ;_;
i've been wanting to play that game forever
YOU SHOULD!!! Follow it up with part 2. By far the best game of its time.
Little info if you do begin, a good ending doesn't necessarily mean a "good" ending in SH1.
EDIT: You can forget SH3. Never existed.
spockeyebrow.gif
Will we have "it's minority, who cares?" talk now?
Or are you saying that only small part of people abuse things? Care to remember what happened with region locking, because small part of users abusing regional prices? Or DRM because some people pirate and so on?
Which is it?
OK, let's get in the clear once and for all.
Steamgaf, do you think it's OK for people to get refund for games they have finished? Or liked well enough, but haven't finished because they got distracted or rl interfered? Is it fair? reasonable? Are you OK with this? Even if it's the game (or dev) you like?
YianGaruga
Banned
Shadow Hearts 1+2 and are among the best JRPGs out there, from a gameplay and a story perspective. Amazing games that I'd love to see revived somehow.
And yeah, 3 is poor.
NingenJanai
Member
Better than tits? I don't think so >:3
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