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[Arthea]

Not true. Amazon for example takes back pretty much anything, no questions asked, even opened games. Other stores still have to take back what you bought but are allowed to refund you less when you used the item. I would be fine with a small % fee based on your playtime when you return games on Steam as well. Maybe scaling from 0% to 30% or something.

I didn't know that about Amazon and it's totally true where I live. How Amazon having own policy makes it untrue. Can you kindly stop with the truth thing?

Unless a thing is broken, falsely advertised, or you haven't used it - no refunds, except cases where store owner(s) decide to do otherwise, in most cases they don't, for obvious reasons.

Better than tits? I don't think so >:3

no, not better, not even close!

although the first game is OK, second is rather good, third is meh

 

[rtcn63]

Shadow Hearts 1 was a memorable game since it was "dark". 2 was more lighthearted and the plot went into weird, weird places, but at least it had a good ending song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moW1gDqrN74

 

[Ryne]

Shadow Hearts 1+2 and are among the best JRPGs out there, from a gameplay and a story perspective. Amazing games that I'd love to see revived somehow.

And yeah, 3 is poor.

Agreed, among my favourite PS2 RPGs ever.

I liked 3 though, even though it was different.

The PS2 was my RPG king, I miss that system.

 

[YianGaruga]

Better than tits? I don't think so >:3

"Among the best". I find it hard to rank games, so I'd say I enjoyed them all pretty much equally. They're all classics that need to be played!

I didn't know that about Amazon and it's totally true where I live. How Amazon having own policy makes it untrue. Can you kindly stop with the truth thing?

Unless a thing is broken, falsely advertised, or you have used it - no refunds, except cases where store owner(s) decide to do otherwise, in most cases they don't, for obvious reasons.

So you live in a pace with terrible consumer rights. I'm sorry.

 

[fantomena]

Witcher 3 = 4 million copies sold.



https://twitter.com/stephentotilo/status/608244823884222464

500k on Steam, not the best.

 

[Milamber]

Better than tits? I don't think so >:3

Imma cut you!

 

[baterism]

As someone from a country where a shop put "Item who have been bought, can't be returned" and nobody seemed mind it (still able to refund, but on consumer to consumer basis), all these refund stuffs are pretty confusing.

In short there are:
*A loosely worded 14 days compulsory refund policy
*Refund policy that can differ from company to company
*DRM and non-DRM digital items
*Steam too generous with their refund policy
*Jerkasses
*Small indies with small games get the short end of the stick

Possible solutions:
*Achievement based refund policy (take note, Klei)
*No refund after playing the game (how on earth?)
*Refund only for broken games (I'm all for it, but determining a game broken or not is harder than it sounds, A lot of people consider Akiba's Trip broken, I don't)
*No refund at all (Valve get sued)

I am partial to Achievement based refund policy, a Steam CS will evaluate a game achievements list and determine it's fairness. A player who have unlock an end game achievement will not allowed to return the game even though he speedrun it and finish at 15 minutes mark.
Possible problems:
*Achievement tied to DRM, so... DRM for lyfe? I'm not really bothered with Steamworks tbh.

 

[Volcynika]

Shadow Hearts 1+2 and are among the best JRPGs out there, from a gameplay and a story perspective. Amazing games that I'd love to see revived somehow.

And yeah, 3 is poor.

I played 1 and hated almost every minute of it.

 

[Arthea]

and everybody always is forgetting Koudelka
funny, don't you think?

 

[dex3108]

500k on Steam, not the best.

Well you could by Steam version only on Steam. I think that at least 500K is sold outside of Steam.

 

[zkylon]

YOU SHOULD!!! Follow it up with part 2. By far the best game of its time.

Little info if you do begin, a good ending doesn't necessarily mean a "good" ending in SH1.

EDIT: You can forget SH3. Never existed.

i played a bit but found it confusing back in the day

but i want to try it again someday

Witcher 3 = 4 million copies sold.



https://twitter.com/stephentotilo/status/608244823884222464

nice

spockeyebrow.gif

Will we have "it's minority, who cares?" talk now?
Or are you saying that only small part of people abuse things? Care to remember what happened with region locking, because small part of users abusing regional prices? Or DRM because some people pirate and so on?
Which is it?

i would love to see real numbers of how big of an impact regional pricing, piracy, used games and refunds actually have before even start calling it a "minority", specially it's again the issue of equating a pirated game to a lost sale

refund exploiting is not only very easily fixable but also a really troublesome thing to do when you just can pirate the game

OK, let's get in the clear once and for all.
Steamgaf, do you think it's OK for people to get refund for games they have finished? Or liked well enough, but haven't finished because they got distracted or rl interfered? Is it fair? reasonable? Are you OK with this? Even if it's the game (or dev) you like?

yes

it makes no difference if you beaten it or not

Unless a thing is broken, falsely advertised, or you haven't used it - no refunds, except cases where store owner(s) decide to do otherwise, in most cases they don't, for obvious reasons.

why prevent valve from doing a nice thing for ppl?

As someone from a country where a shop put "Item who have been bought, can't be returned" and nobody seemed mind it (still able to refund, but on consumer to consumer basis), all these refund stuffs are pretty confusing.

In short there are:
*A loosely worded 14 days compulsory refund policy
*Refund policy that can differ from company to company
*DRM and non-DRM digital items
*Steam too generous with their refund policy
*Jerkasses
*Small indies with small games get the short end of the stick

Possible solutions:
*Achievement based refund policy (take note, Klei)
*No refund after playing the game (how on earth?)
*Refund only for broken games (I'm all for it, but determining a game broken or not is harder than it sounds, A lot of people consider Akiba's Trip broken, I don't)
*No refund at all (Valve get sued)

I am partial to Achievement based refund policy, a Steam CS will evaluate a game achievements list and determine it's fairness. A player who have unlock an end game achievement will not allowed to return the game even though he speedrun it and finish at 15 minutes mark.
Possible problems:
*Achievement tied to DRM, so... DRM for lyfe? I'm not really bothered with Steamworks tbh.

i've yet to see proof of this. a graph showing that there are more refunds now than before doesn't prove anything, specially considering how shitty steam support has always been.

yes, making refunds not shit made people refund games

no shit

 

[NingenJanai]

and everybody always is forgetting Koudelka
funny, don't you think?

What about Grandia? I looooooved Grandia II on Dreamcast

 

[MMBosstones86]

Chaos Rider was removed from Steam a few weeks back. Steam key can be bought here

________________________________________________________

This is so good :

Spoiler

dat Stamina Bar

 

[Milamber]

What about Grandia? I looooooved Grandia II on Dreamcast

But we all know Grandia II is coming anyway.

 

[Tizoc]

Has anyone played the Enhanced Editions of the D&D games (Baldur 1, 2 and Icewind)?
How are they compared to their original versions, like the ones on gog?
Say I need some extra modding for the old games to make them run better, do the EEs cover that?

 

[NingenJanai]

But we all know Grandia II is coming anyway.

Not soon enough, I want it now :|

 

[madjoki]

As someone from a country where a shop put "Item who have been bought, can't be returned" and nobody seemed mind it (still able to refund, but on consumer to consumer basis), all these refund stuffs are pretty confusing.

Possible solutions:
*Achievement based refund policy (take note, Klei)
*Achievement tied to DRM, so... DRM for lyfe? I'm not really bothered with Steamworks tbh.

Steam Achievements can be done without DRM. I believe The Witcher 3, Batham Arkham Asylum/City have achievements, but works drm-free too.

I'm sure they are thinking of achievements in relation to refunds:

 

[fantomena]

. I think that at least 500K is sold outside of Steam.

Where do you get that thought from? Im simply curious.

 

[TheLetdown]

spockeyebrow.gif

Will we have "it's minority, who cares?" talk now?
Or are you saying that only small part of people abuse things? Care to remember what happened with region locking, because small part of users abusing regional prices? Or DRM because some people pirate and so on?
Which is it?

He's talking about taking a measured look at the situation instead of a complete knee-jerk coupled with reaching comparisons. Grief can correct me if I'm wrong.

The major difference with this refund system and the instances you mention is simply oversight. While it appears that Valve is being extremely lenient on their refunds, there is still a metric in place to monitor this stuff, and evaluate. The other situations exist in a grey area that thrived on the lack of any charting. Valve has repeated themselves in stating that they will be monitoring this.

Clearly, nobody is advocating for the death of short games or that those who make very good ones don't deserve compensation. That's a straight up strawman argument that, at worst, is disingenuous and, at best, is just seeking to muddy an argument that could be solved reductively by this this: Why don't we all just wait and see?

 

[Jawmuncher]

2 more days.

 

[zkylon]

yeah just can't really get into massive chalice

i like the combat but so much of my enjoyment of xcom comes from having a squad of regulars so this is just not really enjoyable, feels like i'm just going through the motions just appointing whoever seems reasonable as regents/scribes without much thought, and not really caring about if i lose one or two in combat (my first death being by friendly fire was kind of funny tho)

just feel there's something very wrong with this game, i kind of wish you managed bloodlines rather than people, maybe that would've been better

He's talking about taking a measured look at the situation instead of a complete knee-jerk coupled with reaching comparisons. Grief can correct me if I'm wrong.

The major difference with this refund system and the instances you mention is simply oversight. While it appears that Valve is being extremely lenient on their refunds, there is still a metric in place to monitor this stuff, and evaluate. The other situations exist in a grey area that thrived on the lack of any charting. Valve has repeated themselves in stating that they will be monitoring this.

Clearly, nobody is advocating for the death of short games or that those who make very good ones don't deserve compensation. That's a straight up strawman argument that, at worst, is disingenuous and, at best, is just seeking to muddy an argument that could be solved reductively by this this: Why don't we all just wait and see?

.

 

[Milamber]

2 more days.

It's one day in my part of the world.

 

[Tizoc]

2 more days.

Someone shop Gaben's face on this

 

[freshVeggie]

Not sure why but I'm not feeling this sale becoming successful for me.

Doubt stuff I'd like will get good discounts somehow.

 

[milena87]

Where do you find those statuines?

Spoiler

I found the nobleman one, but are there any others? Because I'm near the point in which Triss will leave, I believe.

I found 3 in total.

Spoiler

One pretty much during Triss' sidequest, but I still wasn't able to talk to her about it, the other much later, in a warehouse during another sidequest.

I think you're supposed to talk to her around the Kaer Morhen mission later on, but I must have missed that critical moment, because I tried both before and after, at every opportunity, but nada.

 

[NingenJanai]

It's one day in my part of the world.

Yeah, one day and 28 hours in your part of the world, same as everywhere else :|

 

[Arthea]

What about Grandia? I looooooved Grandia II on Dreamcast

that's not what I had in mind... I mean always when there is talk about Shadow Hearts people conveniently forget that Koudelka exists.
not that I blame them

yes

it makes no difference if you beaten it or not


why prevent valve from doing a nice thing for ppl?

so, when you finally finish your game, I'm buying it playing and getting a refund. That's so nice of you to let me know you welcome that

 

[baterism]

Steam Achievements can be done without DRM. I believe The Witcher 3, Batham Arkham Asylum/City have achievements, but works drm-free too.

I'm sure they are thinking of achievements in relation to refunds:

Yeah, I also aware of that. But to make an achievement a legit "proof of playing", I guess it need to be server side or something more abuse-proof.
Let's hope Valve actually take a look in the issue and provide a win-win solution for all.

 

[Milamber]

Yeah, one day and 28 hours in your part of the world, same as everywhere else :|

Isn't it Summer sales day 2 now in Australia?

 

[Jawmuncher]

It's one day in my part of the world.

People from the future can't be trusted.

 

[Arthea]

....Why don't we all just wait and see?

we have a choice? Of course we'll wait and see.
What it has to do with discussion at hand? I don't see anything wrong in discussing major new feature of steam, for once.

 

[zkylon]

that's not what I had in mind... I mean always when there is talk about Shadow Hearts people conveniently forget that Koudelka exists.
not that I blame them

what's this koudelka thing. is it like ps1 shadow hearts?

i probably won't be able to run ps2 emulator without videocard but parasite eve ran pretty well

so, when you finally finish your game, I'm buying it playing and getting a refund. That's so nice of you to let me know you welcome that

if you can't run my game refund it
if you don't like it refund it
if you can't afford it pirate it

and if you want to screw me over then it sucks, but i value the above more

people paying me for making something i love is a blessing, not an obligation

we have a choice? Of course we'll wait and see.
What it has to do with discussion at hand? I don't see anything wrong in discussing major new feature of steam, for once.

because you're treating it as a super big issue without having any data to back that up

 

[Arthea]

gog is giving away Battle Realms, limited time offer?

 

[Milamber]

Living in SEA must suck when the sale rollover day starts at around 1 in the morning.

 

[madjoki]

Yeah, I also aware of that. But to make an achievement a legit "proof of playing", I guess it need to be server side or something more abuse-proof.
Let's hope Valve actually take a look in the issue and provide a win-win solution for all.

Server side achievements won't work for single player games.

I don't think anyone would bother to pay for less than two hour games, only to seek refund later.

Expect multiplayer games, where pirated copies don't work. But if multiplayer game last less than two hours, there's a real problem.

 

[Milamber]

gog is giving away Battle Realms, limited time offer?

WE NEED MORE RICE!

 

[Atraveller]

Living in SEA must suck when the sale rollover day starts at around 1 in the morning.

Not just SEA.

 

[Naarmight]

I really hope there is a decent meta game in this steam sale. I wish they could make the achievement thing work again, I know it was hideously abused, but I loved it to bits.

Odd that the actions of a few ruined the sales for me, I guess this is what people are worried about with Steam refunds, those few people ruining it for everyone else.

 

[dex3108]

Where do you get that thought from? Im simply curious.

There were good deals around + Nvidia promotion. So 500K is not that big number

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

If I have any major issues with new Vegas it's that going the independent Vegas route seems undercooked compared to the other options. For example, when I went to see what was going on with the Great Khans they were aligned with the Legion. So I figured, hey bros forget them I'll do you one better. But the only other alternative is to show them that Legion sucks and that they should join the NCR. The Brotherhood of Steel has a similar issue where the best you can do is to get them to back NCR. So in the case of the Khans, I didn't even bother with their quests since I have 0 incentive to help them switch from one enemy faction to another enemy faction. Meh.

In regards to the new refund policy, I wonder if devs will start putting out more demos in order to avoid issues with refunds. Maybe it's worth doing a demo just to reduce the current refund happy environment that appears to be sprouting on steam. Not that I'm opposed to it, just I can see how devs and publishers would want to reduce it from becoming more of a thing.

Last: i have standard vanilla skyrim but I family share with my brother and he has the legendary edition. If I asked for a skyrim refund would I be able to finally play his edition with the dlc? It's super annoying that dlc is not shared if you own a copy of the game yourself.

 

[Milamber]

Not just SEA.

Well, around that general timezone quarter of the world.

 

[Jazz573]

Well, around that general timezone quarter of the world.

I thought you lived in SEA.

 

[Arthea]

what's this koudelka thing. is it like ps1 shadow hearts?

i probably won't be able to run ps2 emulator without videocard but parasite eve ran pretty well


if you can't run my game refund it
if you don't like it refund it
if you can't afford it pirate it

and if you want to screw me over then it sucks, but i value the above more

people paying me for making something i love is a blessing, not an obligation


because you're treating it as a super big issue without having any data to back that up

it's not like other Shadow Hearts games, but it is the first game in series.

you don't want to be able to make what you love all the time and be paid for it? You like suffering doing what you don't like for money that much?

oh, now I get it... new steam feature is not a big deal, lemme guess... izombie is?

 

[baterism]

Living in SEA must suck when the sale rollover day starts at around 1 in the morning.

1 AM is nothing. NOTHING.

I don't think anyone would bother to pay for less than two hour games, only to seek refund later.

Dude, threads and posts have been made because there actually exist people who cheap enough to buy two-dollar games, finish it under 2 hours, then returned it. That's the main concern of some devs about the new refund policy.

 

[bobnowhere]

Isn't it Summer sales day 2 now in Australia?

Doesn't really start until early morning on the 12th east coast Aus. 3am in the morning for all the price mistakes.

 

[Milamber]

I thought you lived in SEA.

Middle East. Sale hits at 9 PM here.

 

[zkylon]

If I have any major issues with new Vegas it's that going the independent Vegas route seems undercooked compared to the other options. For example, when I went to see what was going on with the Great Khans they were aligned with the Legion. So I figured, hey bros forget them I'll do you one better. But the only other alternative is to show them that Legion sucks and that they should join the NCR. The Brotherhood of Steel has a similar issue where the best you can do is to get them to back NCR. So in the case of the Khans, I didn't even bother with their quests since I have 0 incentive to help them switch from one enemy faction to another enemy faction. Meh.

yea, i agree

tho i guess another solution would be to kill them all >:3

it's not like other Shadow Hearts games, but it is the first game in series.

hmm i'll look into it

tho third screenshot has like a giant spider so ehh...

maybe i should give vagrant story a shot for the 9999th time

you don't want to be able to make what you love all the time and be paid for it? You like suffering doing what you don't like for money that much?

i don't mind being screwed over a 1% if the other 99% got something they're content with (or aren't, but they're are able to return it and move on with their lives). i trust that i'm making a game that most people will be pleased with and won't have much of a reason to return

obviously fake numbers, but that's what i believe it'll amount to

if it's more then i'm sure valve can fix it

oh, now I get it... new steam feature is not a big deal, lemme guess... izombie is?

you misunderstand me

it's fine to talk about refunds

it's silly to be talking about the doom of short indie games when there's really no evidence of that

also this week's izombie episode isn't even out yet

 

[Jazz573]

Middle East. Sale hits at 9 PM here.

K. Not sure why I thought you lived in SEA.

 

[Milamber]

K. Not sure why I thought you lived in SEA.

I was born/lived at SEA. I work overseas at ME.

 

[lashman]

And finally, we are happy to announce that starting this Fall, you’ll be able to purchase the Xbox Wireless Adapter for Windows to enjoy the freedom and convenience of the wireless controller on Windows 10 PCs, laptops, and tablets. The Xbox Wireless Adapter for Windows will be available for $24.99 U.S. MSRP or bundled with an Xbox One Wireless Controller for $79.95 U.S. MSRP and sold in most markets where Xbox accessories are currently available.

.