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Stock-Age: Stocks, Options and Dividends oh my!
- Thread starter koam
- Start date
Ha ha I would not discount a profession because you handle your own affairs. Portfolio managers do add value if you don't have time to monitor global markets, trends and a vast array of investments to choose from and track inbetween the time you work, go home, spend time with family and are not in the know how. It's hard to track the estate ramifications of a portfolio if you exceed a certain asset threshold or if something were to prematurely happen to you. Legacy planning takes four years of study and prep in order help people make sure their loved ones are taking care of and taxes are paid when they're needed to. So yeah, portfolio managers DO add value. The profession doesn't exist by sheer accident
I guess I could learn to cook up home remedies to clean my carpets but I pay people to do it instead. Fuck, I pay servers 15% of my dinner bill to bring a plate of food they didn't cook.i see nothing wrong paying someone to more pressing matters such as financial planning.
You don't work for free (unless it's on GAF) and neither should they.
Additionally, I'm not sure how you can assert that a managed portfolio beating the market is impossible. It is very possible and you are projecting an image wherein u like to give yourself way too much credit at the expense of others. Now, whether you wind up with less net because you're paying higher fees, that is in no way equates to a strategy underperforming the market in of itself. Additionally, I'm sure you have not surveyed every.single. portfolio manager out there. Throwing blanket statements as a result of a blanket study is a fallacy. Sorry. The affluent are not as stupid as you would make them to be for hiring a professional.
You cannot tell me that paying someone 15% to bring a plate over to you adds more value than someone who you pay 1% to manage your financial livelihood, can you?or are you so fee averse that you cook at home 356 days out of the year?! Food for thought.
Last edit: want to thank you gents for civil discussion. Was a nice break from whatever it is that's going on in gaming side. Piecake makes very clear how index strategy works. I hope I offset, but not negate, his input with another angle. Whether one over the other is better is endless debate. Piecakebsaid it best tho. Stick to strategy, one your comfortable with, if you're in it for long term. Unfortunately, I deal a lot with this subject matter a lot on daily basis and use Gaf for an escape. As such , I'll stop here and let you guys continue the debate . Best of fortunes to all here. Xo
It is entirely possible to beat the market. The problem is is that no fund manager can do it consistently. Meaning that its probably luck, not skill. Why should I pay someone for that?
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/almost-no-one-can-beat-the-market-2013-10-25
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970204630904577056362881681018
And that one doesnt even discuss fees.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v7jkgu-FKA
Hell, the 3 Nobel prize winners in economics this year have said this:
This is basically my view on stocks. Its impossible beat the market with anything but luck in the short term. What that means is that I have absolutely no use for fund managers because I do not think you can earn returns in the short term from financial knowledge, etc. If that was the case, some professionals would have a consistent winning record against the market. I think its possible to beat the market by investing in individual stocks that you hold for the long term, but that takes an incredible amount of work and knowledge of a company's plan, culture, and leadership. And thats not something that fund managers really do because they simply pick too many stocks.
Data has consistently shown that an index fund strategy pretty much beats everything when you are investing for the long term. It would be a different story if a few fund managers actually beat the market on a consistent basis, but that hasnt happened recently with the explosion of computer trading and, well, basically investing in everything (easier to find alpha when no one is investing in emerging markets).
I have no experience with estate, legacy, and other rich people financial vehicles. So youre right, if I ever win the lottery I might hire an accountant or talk to a financial planner if that stuff comes up. Retirement planning? Well, I can do that on my own. And yea, I basically think the entire financial planning and fund managing industry is worthless for anyone who simply wants to invest for their retirement or their house. Want to do something more complicated? Well, go talk to one.
As for my superiority complex, I obviously think my strategy is better for the vast majority of people (maybe minus super rich people), but to actually employ this strategy you ahve to admit that you are not special, you cannot beat the market, and don't bother investing your money with others because they can't beat it either. Sure, there are still a few who can beat it with skill by investing like Buffett, but good luck finding that person, and hope that his skill continues. I just dont think its worth the risk. Maybe your adviser does research on individual stocks for the long term?
And yes, I think the person who brings me food gives me more value than the person who would charge me 1% to manage my money. The waiter isnt going to cost me like 500k, and he is actually going to do something useful for me like bring me my food!
luckyboyceo
Member
AAPL earnings are always a total crapshoot it seems. Regardless of whether or not they beat the street estimates they still seem to go down AH because of the expectations that come with the name.
By the end of the week I'm sure they'll be a up a solid amount however.
Ether_Snake
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Strange, almost half of what I have been keeping track of and my portfolio holdings has been falling 1% to 3% yesterday and today, yet markets are barely falling.
Hate when a stock keeps beating its 52 week high as I really don't have a sell off point to judge. I am up 85% so far with my HAL stock. My sell off point internally was 53 but I don't see a reason for it to fall too much. Stock has been very strong the last month. I just don't want to sell off too early. This is the time when people make or break themselves.
So why not set a stop or sell off half your position to at least reward yourself for meeting your mark?
Been debating on selling off half.
This is one of the cases where technical analysis comes in handy. When a stock is rising consistently, it is usually following a trendline. In such a case, you simply figure out where that trendline is and you keep the stock until it breaks below it.
If you have significant profits without any kind of selloff, this strategy will provide you with the point of reference you're lacking for when to sell without risking much of your profits.
Edit:Just had a quick look at HAL and if you were to follow this strategy, today you'd sell around 49.50$. But of course, this number rises every day...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...ay-rules-on-retirement-investment-advice.html
Its good to know that both parties in congress can at least agree on some issues. Too bad its screwing over the middle class in favor of Wall Street.
HammerOfThor
Member
Probably has do to with them releasing their quarterly report, I'm guessing.
Oh yeah that. Looks grim. Not sure even if PS4 is wildly successful it will make a diffrence. Sony computer entertainment is tiny compared to the rest of the company isn't it?
Perhaps they guided lower.
Shorted BBRY today, I don't care if it's oversold. It's my first long-term short ever.
The only thing that was stopping me was the possibility of a buyout but that's off the table.
Without that, I firmly believe that company's going bankrupt within the next two years.
Time will tell if I'm right or wrong...
The only thing that was stopping me was the possibility of a buyout but that's off the table.
Without that, I firmly believe that company's going bankrupt within the next two years.
Time will tell if I'm right or wrong...
luckyboyceo
Member
Probably a good move. I can't imagine that company going anywhere but down honestly.
Yep...seems like a no-brainer.
Scott32020
Member
These beat up names can have dead cat bounces, however (see JCP)
Ether_Snake
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Yeah look at Groupon, up 175% in a year. I always thought that thing would go bust.
Today was great for solar, and most of my portfolio, specially Solar City, Tesla, and the 3D printing stocks I own.
Can't invest too much soon cause I had some stuff to buy but I'm glad with what I currently own.
Today was great for solar, and most of my portfolio, specially Solar City, Tesla, and the 3D printing stocks I own.
Can't invest too much soon cause I had some stuff to buy but I'm glad with what I currently own.
Goddamn, GTAT is making me cry.
Signed a deal with Apple for sapphires...was eyeing this up at 2.80 and did NOTHING about it...ugh.
Ether_Snake
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I have SSYS, DDD, and VJET (small position in this one).
edit: Buying more TSLA tomorrow, it's down 12% in AH.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Time to jump in on some TSLA?
Dropped 14% due to R&D spending and battery shortage, but I see both of these as temporary conditions and TSLA has huge potential.
Thoughts?
Dropped 14% due to R&D spending and battery shortage, but I see both of these as temporary conditions and TSLA has huge potential.
Thoughts?
Ether_Snake
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I'm thinking that they will face strong competition from other car companies, but they also have some partnership deals with some of them, so we'll see. They have to continue to expand the charging stations network. They have lower-cost models coming too, SUVs as well, etc.
They HAVE to continue making the expensive cars too, some luxury cars, hopefully be at the forefront of the electric F1 cars even if there is resistance against them about the lack of sound, which is dumb because they could customize the sounds anyway. They need to hold that mental market share of being a high end company, so that when their lowered-priced models hit people will feel special owning one.
I'd like to see them make eletric pickup trucks that are better than fossil-fuel powered ones.
So basically, lots of potential, it's all up to management and competitors being badly managed. Anything they can do others can to, but from a brand perspective they have more margin if they play their cards right. Have Tony Stark drive a Tesla, etc.
They HAVE to continue making the expensive cars too, some luxury cars, hopefully be at the forefront of the electric F1 cars even if there is resistance against them about the lack of sound, which is dumb because they could customize the sounds anyway. They need to hold that mental market share of being a high end company, so that when their lowered-priced models hit people will feel special owning one.
I'd like to see them make eletric pickup trucks that are better than fossil-fuel powered ones.
So basically, lots of potential, it's all up to management and competitors being badly managed. Anything they can do others can to, but from a brand perspective they have more margin if they play their cards right. Have Tony Stark drive a Tesla, etc.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I'd like to get some TSLA too, but I think I'm going to wait a bit. It might go down even further yet. I think in the long term Tesla is going way up, but the Q3 earnings may drive it back down some for right now.
If it seems to be stabilizing then I'll probably buy in.
I thought the drop was because of the battery fires
CharlieDigital
Banned
No; don't think so.
That was quite a while ago and the one in the US, even the NHTSA decided not to investigate.
Edit: Bought $11k
Ether_Snake
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I added when it was down 12% this morning, at 155.
Was looking at some news, apparently DDD is up recently over overover speculation. I kind of hope it won't happen, I want more growth than whatever would be offered. At least I'm 50/50 in DDD and SSYS.
Was looking at some news, apparently DDD is up recently over overover speculation. I kind of hope it won't happen, I want more growth than whatever would be offered. At least I'm 50/50 in DDD and SSYS.
luckyboyceo
Member
Pretty much my exact thoughts as well. Longterm I love it but I think it'll drop a little further in the short term. I'll probably pick some up then.
FlashFlooder
Member
TSLA is a momentum stock at this point. I think it'll drop some more before ultimately going back up. I believe in the company long-term, but there is lots of newly-minted money in that stock right now just waiting to be cashed out.
I'm hoping for an initial drop but it might not play out that way at all...
I'm trying to figure out how they're going to monetize it to the extent that google or fb can regarding ads...
I would be shocked if it doesn't pop tomorrow. I'm all in
Shouldn't happen. What happened with Facebook is that it was too aggressively priced. Twitter has been said to leave some money on the table specifically to avoid the embarrassment of a repeat of the Facebook IPO.
My question is, is there any chance for someone not sitting at a trading desk to get twitter @$26?
heeeeell no.
no way...to be honest, i'd wait 4-6 months before jumping in. it's not going to take off on you.
at least that's my strategy. i don't like the notion of retail longs pumping up an IPO just for directors and other insiders to collect their profits right away and leave everyone else holding the bag.