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Street attacks against Muslims sky rocket in UK
- Thread starter Alfadawg
- Start date
cryptoadam
Banned
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/20/record-number-anti-muslim-attacks-reported-uk-2017
I think a bit of a better article.
I think the main difference is face to face vs online. Steet level=offline.
Couldn't find more info about the breakdown of violent vs non violent.
American
Banned
Oh yeah, you're pretty transparent. Say something hateful and racist, then backtrack and 'Oh don't twist my words!!' and try to imply what say you said was vague and people are taking their own meanings from it.
So obvious.
AfricanKing
Member
The way this thread was framed ??
What a load of BS , the thread had a purpose to talk about the crimes being committed against people who are innocent, But you ignore the bulk of the OP and go in for the Trump part to attempt to dismantle what ever argument you saw fit . Why start talking about acid attacks and honour crimes if you main agenda is not to deflect the attention away from innocent people bring hurt for no other reason than their faith. Dont bother being this disingenuous when its clear what your plan is
Big difference between Muslims and Islam yet your criticising the actions of minority of Muslims in a thread about innocent Muslims being attacked . Ok
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infinitys_7th
Member
The conclusion of the OP is literally that evil Nazi Tronald Drumpf and Brexit were responsible for this.
AfricanKing
Member
Maybe me and you read threads differently , when a news source is posted i concentrate on the article at hand and the comments of the OP flow into the discussion as if he or she was just another poster. I dont take them as a reflection as to where the conversation should go.
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strange headache
Banned
The "bulk" of the OP? Please, there's not a whole lot to begin with, except "OMG TRUMP".
Hence why, if you would have read correctly, I didn't start by talking about acid attacks and honor crimes, but by condemning these attacks. But that still doesn't change the fact that Islamic faith is for the most part incompatible with enlightenment and modern democracies.
What the...? I was merely explaining why the conflicts are on the rise and why it's a much more complex problem than mere Islamophobia, which is what OP was alluding to in the first place. If you have people practicing a faith that is basically incompatible with modern democratic values, said faith needs to be moderated in order to allow integration or civil conflicts and unrest are bound to happen.
That certainly does not excuse attacks on innocent Muslims, but if we want to see these sorts of crimes going down, these problems must be finally discussed. I don't give a rat's behind about Trump, but merely going "HURR DURR DRUMPF & RACISM" ain't cutting it!
AfricanKing
Member
Why don't you start with the extract the OP put from the article ..
There we have it .. you just wanted to shit on Muslims and the Islamic faith.
Why would you even make that comment in this type of thread just goes to show the i was right about you all along. I' m done with you
Dee Dah Dave
Member
The majority of Muslims in the UK want homosexuality to be illegal. So presumably if you are Gay they want you in prison, if you are lucky.
A near majority of Muslims in the UK want Sharia instead of British common law. Yay let's have a public gathering in Trafalgar Square and watch a lynching take place. Very progressive!
The "But not all Muslims" rebuttal isn't good enough. Because clearly as the polls show, most of them are wankers and don't belong in the West. Plus the evidence shows that they are getting more Fundamentalist, not less, which you would hope to be the case if they live in the West. "Not all Muslims" is about as useful as "Not all Germans" would be in 1930's Europe.
These attacks on Muslims are a secondary symptom of a primary cause. The whole thing is a mess with practically zero chance of working out in the long run. My bet is that eventually it will come down to one or the other, because a happy middle ground isn't realistic. Which is a damn shame for both the native people's of Europe, and the truly secular Muslims who do want to fit in here.
At the moment most Western countries have only around 10% Muslim population at the most. Look at all the problems there already are when you force very different people together. Now fast forward 50 or so years to when then demographics are more equal because of birth rates and immigration. Welcome to Lebanon 2.0, thankfully I will be dead by then.
A near majority of Muslims in the UK want Sharia instead of British common law. Yay let's have a public gathering in Trafalgar Square and watch a lynching take place. Very progressive!
The "But not all Muslims" rebuttal isn't good enough. Because clearly as the polls show, most of them are wankers and don't belong in the West. Plus the evidence shows that they are getting more Fundamentalist, not less, which you would hope to be the case if they live in the West. "Not all Muslims" is about as useful as "Not all Germans" would be in 1930's Europe.
These attacks on Muslims are a secondary symptom of a primary cause. The whole thing is a mess with practically zero chance of working out in the long run. My bet is that eventually it will come down to one or the other, because a happy middle ground isn't realistic. Which is a damn shame for both the native people's of Europe, and the truly secular Muslims who do want to fit in here.
At the moment most Western countries have only around 10% Muslim population at the most. Look at all the problems there already are when you force very different people together. Now fast forward 50 or so years to when then demographics are more equal because of birth rates and immigration. Welcome to Lebanon 2.0, thankfully I will be dead by then.
Boss Mog
Member
So after decades of terror attacks, assaults, rapes, murders, acid attacks, child rape grooming gangs, constant shows of force on the streets and many other heinous crimes that keep escalting year after year, you're surprised, OP, that people are getting sick of it and refuse to just sit back and take it because their government refuses to do anything about it since they're pretty much owned by Saudi Arabia and other gulf nations?
Many muslims see themselves as above the law, that Western laws don't apply to them, they only follow Allah's laws like these muslims in Norway. European governments submit to them because they don't want an uprising, they are often given light sentences or no sentence at all. Just the other day 3 Somalian migrants in Sweden got eight months for gang raping a 13-year old girl. Here's what one member of the Rotherham child rape gang said:
I don't condone violence but I can understand how some people living through this hell on a daily basis just can't take it anymore.
Many muslims see themselves as above the law, that Western laws don't apply to them, they only follow Allah's laws like these muslims in Norway. European governments submit to them because they don't want an uprising, they are often given light sentences or no sentence at all. Just the other day 3 Somalian migrants in Sweden got eight months for gang raping a 13-year old girl. Here's what one member of the Rotherham child rape gang said:
I don't condone violence but I can understand how some people living through this hell on a daily basis just can't take it anymore.
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strange headache
Banned
As I've already explained, I'm taking issue with the way how this topic is framed, because it does not allow for a healthy discussion of the problem but only leads to more tribalistic political shit flinging.
Are you implying that I'm factually wrong? What's next, telling me that Islam isn't a dogmatic theocracy that has absolutely no notion of a separation between church and state hence why it's basically incompatible with pluralistic democracies? You know how long it took for Europeans to free their societies from the shackles of christian tyranny? I sh*t on everything that is incompatible with modern democracy, enlightenment values, individual rights and freedom of self-determination.
Good job cherry picking my reply. Unfortunately, that's not what I'm doing. Your selective reading skills want to desperately shove me into a drawer, because your arguments hold no ground otherwise.
Good, then I can finally get back to discussing the topic at hand.
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AfricanKing
Member
Funny how i dont see you posting this in the acid attack thread but you wait for one that puts Muslims in the victim seat, yeah i see through your crap. Enjoy your discussion
strange headache
Banned
What crap? Me dishing out some hard cold facts while explaining why these civil tensions and attacks are on the rise? You've contributed nothing to this topic except random accusations, baseless assumptions and condescending verbiage.
I thought you were "done with me"?
DasPenguin
Member
What form would that be?
Gander
Banned
They were trying to empower the people to remove Assad not cause a civil war.
AfricanKing
Member
Cold hard facts .. Hmm because you got the acid attack one completely wrong , You have done nothing that can even be considered an explanation. The only explanation for attacking innocent men , women and children is that people are xenophobic and Islamophobic ass wipes. There is zero justification for attacking an innocent person regardless of the political environment. But feel free to explain your notions of Islams incompatibility with the west as a good reason to attack people.
infinitys_7th
Member
Except every time they plan to "empower the people" they support Saudi-backed terrorists who come in and try to regress the countries 500 years.
And regardless of intentions, they still contributed to causing the war. If wishes were fishes doesn't cut it when you fuck with a country of people.
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AfricanKing
Member
luigimario
Banned
No faith is compatible with "enlightenment and modern democracies". Look at Christian Africa and South/Central America, as well as the insane Evangelicals you get in the US. The extremist Jews in Isreal and the settlements, the Buddhists in Myanmar, the hindu extremists in India etc.....
Alfadawg
Banned
His the """""" Intellectual""""""" they need
I love that these guys are constantly trying to get themselves validated by trying to debate Noam Choamski but he's like...WHO?!?
These guys are just glorified alt right internet posters who know how to spell.
strange headache
Banned
Sure, go and tell that these women (warning graphical content)! Completely wrong? I don't think so, if you take a less slanted article.
Yes, London has a problem with violent youth gangs using acid, that still doesn't change the fact that acid attacks on women are not uncommon in Islam. Besides, I wasn't only talking about acid attacks. Fact is, those kinds of honor crimes were largely absent in Europe a few decades ago! Who is turning a blind eye to these attacks now? Certainly not me!
I think you're confusing "excuse" with "explanation". But hey, you go ahead screeching about Islamophobia, because ignoring these problems certainly has made things better... with the rightist populists now on the rise because you people have your heads stuck so deep into the sand.
Congratulations, you've just discovered what it means to be an atheist and a humanist.
Sam Harris is alt right now?
...oh.
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AfricanKing
Member
You really want to contest the Metropolitan Police with their own stats ..
In the UK it is not a south asian problem its done by people of all races , we are talking about the UK not globally speaking so nice try trying to move the goalpost on that one , a failed attempt.
You are a fine example of someone who cant not differentiate when someone is acting in the name of Islam or just being an evil cunt. If anything you alt-righter's keep banging the same drum trying to scare monger.
But hey again this is a thread about how innocent people are being targeted but you want to make into your own little pissing hole to shame Islam.
sad
strange headache
Banned
Nice, more baseless assumptions, I'm not an alt-righter. I'd link to my political compass, but I can't be arsed defending myself against these shitty accusations anymore. Think of me what you will, I don't care. You're so far entrenched in your little political bubble, that everything that doesn't agree with you must be alt-right. Which only exemplifies the problem I took with this topic in the first place.
That's rich coming from the guy advocating physical violence against others for using certain words.
I'm sure poor little Islam will be fine with me criticizing the hateful, illiberal, undemocratic, superstitious, homophobic, misogynistic, absurdist and violent aspects of its faith.
Besides, how many times do I have to condemn these attacks? Forgive me for not screeching in unison with your political tribalism, but people can discuss these issues while being critical of Islam. Dogmatic faith being woefully incompatible with western democracies and making integration much more difficult certainly plays a big role in why civil tensions and attacks of this kind are rising. Turning a blind eye to these problems, won't make things any better.
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TheShadowLord
Member
Would a bat an eye if any of those countries proposed a travel banned from all muslim countries. or maybe a full scale on the middle east
Snoopycat
Banned
Yes. Because the only way to make society better is to attack an innocent bunch of people because a bunch of people attacked other innocent people.
It's nice to see the new face of Neogaf. Disgusting, despicable, racist, transphobic and islamophobic . The centre is truly a great place to be.
This thread highlights how far Gaf has fallen. We see a rise of attacks on innocent people and these racist little scumbags rush in to try and downplay, handwave and victim blame. I'm all for freedom of speech but when there's no substance, no thought, no balance, then there's no point in engaging.
Old Gaf was bad because it was filled with hostile assholes whose only pleasure in life was ban baiting and witch hunting. Now we have a different group of hostile assholes, but the difference between these assholes and the old assholes is only surface level. Two sides of the same hateful coin. It is a shame. If only we could rid of these fucking idiots too and grow a community built on understanding and communication instead of hateful bullshit and ignorance.
Airola
Member
I don't know, I kinda like how it's now possible for the assholes from every possible side to come and say their things and their opposers to tell them to shut up without any of the sides being forced to leave. I rather take a controversial debate on a touchy subject or even a childish back and forth yelling than have the losing side to be suppressed and kicked out.
It shouldn't be about having a reality tv like contest where the unfit or offensive people should be eliminated from the group.
This I actually agree with.
Not that the endgame should be to get people banned but if people talk shit then you can tell them they are talking shit. Neither side is going to change their minds but at least the rest of the readers have different arguments and opinions to read and they can make up their own minds.
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TrainedRage
Banned
I laughed so hard.
Zog
Banned
I need to replace the serpentine belt on my van because of the things Trump says.
infinitys_7th
Member
I can't open jars anymore because of the things Trump says.
Yes, someone actually said that:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...the-gym-because-of-trump-now-i-cant-open-jars
DDDDDDRRRRRUUUUUMMMMMPPPFFFFF!
*reeeeees at the sky*
infinitys_7th
Member
This thread was never about victims of violence - it was fully intended to be used as an attack on muh literally Orange Hitler Drumpf.
Why the hell else would the OP look at stats from the UK and blame the US president?
The OP never cared about the victims. They were just tools to him.
The Incarnation
Member
Dp?
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The Incarnation
Member
The religion of Brimstone finally having those hot coals poured back upon their heads eh!
Not celebrating it, but you do reap what you sow.
Not celebrating it, but you do reap what you sow.
PonyStation4
Member
Where is your evidence that these people were attacked for their race? All I see is people being attacked for an ideology that they choose to believe in.
AfricanKing
Member
You don't know how to read threads so you
Phoenix RISING
Banned
He was already banned for a few weeks for "insinuating" that people crossing the border should be shot.
Here, he was warned for talking about Muslims as if they are not people.
I wouldn't expect a straight answer from someone like him.
AfricanKing
Member
Was i advocting violence against the innocent .. no so please try again with your lame remarks
Oh yeah your first words then followed by BUT BUT
luigimario
Banned
Jesus Christ...... yes you're right, domestic abuse didn't occur anywhere but the "islams". And now where ever the "islams" go you get domestic abuse/honor killings..... That's a great observation mate! Sam Harris would be proud!
michaelius
Banned
Because apart from lone wolves attack those macro-cultural effects are only possible due to support of local populations.
Do you think organizations like ISIS or Boko Haram can grow up without being protected and silently supported by local populations ?
Was it just an accident that people responsible for terror attacks in France were hiding in Molenbeek ?
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
You got some statistics from reliable sources on that claim?
Because I am betting that you don't.
strange headache
Banned
Nice GIF, still doesn't change the fact that you have no leg to stand on. I'm not alt-right, not even right wing, but you keep telling that yourself if it makes you feel better. Looks like some users are falling back into screeching "NAZI" when their arguments are failing them.
You were advocating violence, point. Something I've never done, so get off your high horse.
Nice whataboutism. Still doesn't change the fact that domestic violence and violence against women in general is on the rise in Europe. Much of it can be clearly linked to the Islamic belief that disobedient women deserve a good beating once in a while:
This is exacerbated by the fact that many Islamic marriages carried out in the UK, are religious only and never registered. Women who wish to obtain a divorce are forced to go to Sharia councils, often dominated by men and beyond scrutiny often depriving those women of much needed civil rights and protections. Many Muslims in the UK are in favor of Sharia law, but thankfully the UK recently rejected their legitimization:
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AfricanKing
Member
Whatever helps you sleep better at night , you've already expressed the same rethoric that people of that political leaning love to use as their crunch to shit on another religion.
Advocating violence against the innocent is in a completely different ball park , you are the one trying to deminish an entire faith in a thread about how people of that faith are being attacked unprovoked. I think the horse I'm on is pretty fine in that respect.
strange headache
Banned
Being an atheist and critical of religion is not the same as being an Islamophobic fascist. Many left-leaning people are critical of religion in general, with the separation of church and state being historically speaking a core tenant of European leftism! As a humanist I also reject all kinds of religious bigotry and zealotry. But you don't care about that, you're just here to blindly label people so that they fit your narrow-minded world view.
Advocating violence is advocating violence. You don't get do decide who is "innocent" and who is not and you certainly have no right to use physical violence against other people for using words. You're not judge, jury and executioner. And to be quite frank, that same mindset of yours, that violence in certain cases is legitimate, is what's driving these far-right racists to attack other people because of their faith.
Violence should never ever be the answer and it would be good for you to finally get that through your thick head.
Please show me where I've been "diminishing an entire faith"? On numerous occasions have I expressively stated that I'm not talking about all Muslim individuals, hence why I posted that Sam Harris video in the frikkin' first place. Here let my quote myself again:
Yet here you are repeating the same bullsh*t assumptions again and again because quite apparently that's all you can muster. Maybe learn to have a proper discussion before you go around accusing others of things that simply are not true. Go label somebody else and point your silly fingers at them.
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MisterFalcon
Member
It depends how you define 'attack'. The Tell Mama group that is always the source of these kind of press releases considers nasty tweets and verbal abuse to be attacks and hate crimes. If you were to change the definition to exclude cases where no physical harm was done not many attacks would remain. And if you were to count deaths you would indeed end up with islamic inspired attacks vastly outnumbering anti-islamic attacks in the UK.
Personally I have witnessed plenty of cases where immigrants are fined for not paying in public transport and using terms like 'cancer-jew' to the ticket controllers. According to Tell Mama this is a hate crime attack.
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luigimario
Banned
Cititation needed
luigimario
Banned
Domestic violence is on the increase in the uk since islam invasion? Interesting. Do you have any sources on that claim?
Plus do you have the source that says majotity of these islamics want sharia law in the UK?
You are so knowledgable on these muslim invaders!
(I hope Im using the right vocabulary)....
