Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Okay cool. Show me the exact numbers. Link me to those statistics.
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Street attacks against Muslims sky rocket in UK
- Thread starter Alfadawg
- Start date
Okay cool. Show me the exact numbers. Link me to those statistics.
luigimario
Banned
If you read the article, you'd see theres a marked increase of offline violent incidents against muslims, mainly women.
But whatever floats your boat mate...
Mahadev
Member
I mean, on one hand you're right, on the other how can you take seriously an organization that admits that 57% of the alleged attacks in its report are only online? They're clearly biased and are trying to inflate their numbers any means necessary.
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strange headache
Banned
How about you finally start addressing the argument I've already given you, or were the links I've provided, the citation from the Quran and the example with the Sharia councils in the UK not enough?
How about you watch this Channel 4 documentary and inform yourself? Here are some key findings (link to the full survey):
- 52% do not believe that homosexuality should be legal in Britain
- 23% support the introduction of Sharia Law
- 32% refuse to condemn those who take part in violence against those who mock the Prophet
- 39% agree that “wives should always obey their husbands”
- 31% think it's acceptable for a man to have more than one wife
- One in three British Muslims refuse completely to condemn the stoning of women accused of adultery
- 35% believe Jewish people have too much power in the UK
- 78% of British Muslims would like to integrate into British life on most things apart from Islamic schooling and some laws
You can bugger right off with your populist buzzwords, backhandedly implying that I'm an alt-right Islamophobe. I have no tolerance for xenophobic and hateful bullcrap, but I'm not afraid to criticize religious bigotry either. Either start discussing the subject constructively, or keep your baseless assumptions to yourself!
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gunslikewhoa
Member
Totally. I attacked a random on the street already this morning because of something POTUS tweeted yesterday. I couldn't help myself.
That's all this OP was really created for, anyway. TDS.
luigimario
Banned
According to the survey you posted, it showed about 23% wanted to introduce sharia law into the UK? That's not what a majority is..... Or am I missing something?
And still no cititations to say that domestic violence in the uk only became an issue since muslims took over....
I mean, you say the islamaphobic accusations are baseless, but how else is anyone meant to take the comments you made?
Domestic violence has had an increase since the muslims took over and that the majority of muslims in the uk want sharia law? You know both of those statements are false but you made them anyway, for what purpose? And in a thread about violence against muslims? Is this an attempt to some how justify it? Even a little?
Or am I way off base here?
strange headache
Banned
23% are strongly in favor, while up to 40% support aspects of sharia law:
That's 1 in 3 British Muslims, that's a lot of people. If you think that poses no problems to integration efforts or the democratic foundations of the UK, you're delusional. Also, why did you simply ignore the other statistical facts that were provided to you?
Where did I say a "majority"? I said "many", stop putting words into my mouth.
I have given you plenty of evidence showing that Islamic dogmatism can be clearly linked to domestic violence and oppression. How about you bring some receipts instead?
How about you abandon your selective reading and stop cherry picking my comments? Maybe then we can start having a constructive discussion. I've clearly explained where I'm coming from, but you people just want to throw around -isms and -phobias instead of actually focusing on the arguments at hand.
This was an attempt to explain to you why these violent conflicts are on the rise, even if I would never agree with these attacks. You're just angry because I brought a little bit of nuance into this topic, thereby ruining your little tribalistic political circle-jerk.
No, not even a little! Find me one single evidence, where I have ever been in support of violence of any kind. You can't, so stop it with these bullsh*t insinuations.
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AfricanKing
Member
Oh yeah , you reject all torts of bigotry , yet you go around claiming is such a destructive religion , your original post did not pin point a certain sec of Islamic followers you are simpy blanket statemented the whole faith.
It's that mindset that I'm still alive today
This thread . Look how you are hi jacking it to preach your disapproval of Islam and Muslims
MisterFalcon
Member
Sure, since 2000 78 people were killed by radical islamic terrorists and 3 by anti-islamic terrorists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain
edit: If there was never another islamic terror attack it would take 450 years before the death toll of anti-islamic terror attacks would pass the islamic.
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strange headache
Banned
Oh sorry, I was not aware I now need to highlight specific sects in order to criticize the bigoted aspects of a religion that they all have in common.
So you still keep perpetuating that lie, despite having told you numerous times already that I'm not throwing all Muslims into the same pot. Had you watched the video of Sam Harris that I posted, you'd have understood that. Unfortunately, you didn't even bother watching that short clip, instead you were too busy sharing GIFs about Harris being alt-right and patting each other on the back. Like in what alternate dimension does one have to live to make such a ridiculous assertion?
Self defense is not the same as violent vigilante justice! Stop it with the silly hyperbole internet tough guy. You're arguing a frikkin' video games forum, it's not like your life is depending on it.
Well duh, I'm am atheist and a humanist. Who'd a thunk I'd be critical of Islam and any kind of religious bullsh*ttery in general.
Also, do you have any factual evidence to counter the arguments that I've provided above, or are we just gonna talk about me all day long? I thought you were done with me, yet here you are continuing your ad hominem attacks without contributing anything meaningful to the issue at hand.
AfricanKing
Member
Wait .. first and foremost don't use the athiest angle here it's not going to work I'm an athiest as well yet you don't see me using that as a tool to invoke a moral authority over people who choose to believe in a God or Deity.
Being an athiest does not mean you are against religion and it sure as hell does not mean you can now use the lable as a tool to discredit a faith that you should not even care for .
I've already proved you wrong on your little acid attacks in the UK crap but I'm not going to get into a argument with you in a thread that is about the victimization of a religion because you want to prove your own twisted ideology is superior.
Sorry but that's not going to stop and my mindset is not going to change , I live in a reality where people like me have to fight for every inch we make so.
Mahadev
Member
This fallacious argument is so common that I'm thinking of creating a copypasta just spamming it to anyone parroting it.
Religion is an ideology, you can't be bigoted against an ideology. You can change your religion and the principles that come with it, if I don't like your awful religion it's my fucking right. Based on your absurd way of thinking hating far-right ideologies is bigoted. (and before you make the strawman, no I'm not comparing the two, just explaining how your claim is ridiculous with the very easy example)
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strange headache
Banned
That's not even an argument. I get to use the "atheist angle" whenever and however I frikkin' please!
You are confusing atheism with agnosticism. But we already know that you have major troubles getting your definitions straight. I've already explained to you that secularism and religious criticism is a core tenant of humanism and European leftism. Besides, how can I be "bigoted" against clearly hateful and discriminatory specific religious beliefs and practices?
First of all, the article you posted quite explicitly stated that London is the an exception when it comes to non domestic acid attacks. As for the rest of the world (including most other places in the UK) my assertion still stands. You don't get to hand-wave this barbaric practice away simply because of a measly exception. And even if many acid attacks in London are due to gang violence, that still does not make the religious and domestic kinds of attacks go away. I have given you concrete examples of women being attacked like that, are you denying their existence just to make a point?
In other words, you refuse to engage with the other evidence that I've provided because you cannot be bothered to find any factual counter arguments. Hence why you just keep engaging in baseless ad hominem attacks in the hopes what I can be shamed into submission. Yeah, and I'm the one trying to "prove that my ideology is superior" whatever that's supposed to mean. Do you have any more wishy-washy statements without meaning like that?
Says the guy who can afford to spend all day long arguing on a video game forum. Don't be ridiculous!
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AfricanKing
Member
bigotry
ˈbɪɡətri/
noun
noun: bigotry; plural noun: bigotries
- intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.
"the difficulties of combating prejudice and bigotry"
synonyms
rejudice, bias, partiality, partisanship, sectarianism, discrimination, unfairness, injustice; More
intolerance, narrow-mindedness, fanaticism, dogmatism;
racism, racialism, sexism, heterosexism, homophobia, chauvinism, anti-Semitism, jingoism;
Jim Crowism
When applied to Religion is Religious Intolerance. Same thing. There's a huge difference between being critical of a religion and down right using tactics to deminish a Religion, it great when the only thing you can do is tarnish a Religion because you have a issue with a minority of their members.
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Mahadev
Member
bigotry
ˈbɪɡətri/
noun
noun: bigotry; plural noun: bigotries
- intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.
"the difficulties of combating prejudice and bigotry"
synonyms
intolerance, narrow-mindedness, fanaticism, dogmatism;
racism, racialism, sexism, heterosexism, homophobia, chauvinism, anti-Semitism, jingoism;
Jim Crowism
When applied to Religion is Religious Intolerance. Same thing. There's a huge difference between being critical of a religion and down right using tactics to deminish a Religion, it great when the only thing you can do is tarnish a Religion because you have a issue with a minority of their members.
You're performing a lot of mental gymnastics to categorize "intolerance" towards an ideology as bigotry. Sure, I have no problem "diminishing" ideologies (whatever that means) as awful as modern Islam , hell, I heavily dislike all judeochristian religions and there's nothing wrong with that. You can't dictate to me what kind of ideologies I should and shouldn't like and then make ridiculous accusations against me based on that.
Or, to use your own logic, stop being intolerant towards my ideology that rejects dogmatic bullshit that very often spread hate and intolerance, you're being a bigot!
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luigimario
Banned
Common line isn't? "Islam isnt a race!" Say that to the brown skinned hindus/sikhs/chrisitans/jews who have had to endure physical violence because people percieved them to be muslim, alot of whom lost their lives.
But yeah, continue to justify it.....
Only if you say this to all the jewish and christian people who get terrorized through the radical Islam,. This is especially in refugee camps the case. Germany already was thinking about that women and also christians have to be separated. Tell this to all the jewish people that should not wear their Kippa in Berlin anymore. Tell that to the jewish childrn who getting threaten with cutting of their heads already in elementary schools. And so on. Religion especially the radical Islam which by the way are the majority of Muslims living in Europe is cancer to our society.
I wish there were more moderates living here like in the US but this is not the case. The problem we have in Europe with the Islam that chlidren are now far more radicalized than their parents and this will bite us in the ass.
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luigimario
Banned
U
Unlike you and some others on this ward, I would never justify attacks against innocent people.
Plus, cititation needed. Any evidence to back up your claims that majority of muslims are radical?
Unlike you and some others on this ward, I would never justify attacks against innocent people.
Plus, cititation needed. Any evidence to back up your claims that majority of muslims are radical?
Mahadev
Member
Are you implying that because there are a few complete morons in society that do this crap society should adjust its standards based on theirs? What on earth is even the argument here? "Some idiots might confuse ideology with race so let's confuse ideology with race and call bigotry the criticism of both as if it's the same thing"? This is your solution? Adopt their type of "logic"?
Seriously, the logic behind these arguments is absolutely preposterous, stop desperately trying to create connections between criticism of ideology and racism, racism attacks people based on traits they were born with and cannot change, criticism of ideology attacks beliefs and principles people have willingly adopted and can change.
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Of course I can back it up as always. The Pew studies alone show this yes.
The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society
As for in Europe: This was already the case in 2007
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540895/Young-British-Muslims-getting-more-radical.html
And if you can read German I can show you studies and articles how radical muslim children have become. It is not even their fault but de to the fact that we do not control mosques, close every mosque which is financed outside of the EU etc. we have nothing to fight this radicalisation. We have schools now with 90% migrant children which is not a bad thing in general but when Islam has become the rule on these schoolyards when boys tell women what they are allowed to wear etc it is not a good thing. We need to counter all this before its too late.
PS: Our only liberal mosque in Berlin lead by a women has to be under 24/7 police protection as well.
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off duty ninja
Member
You will never see these people screaming Islamaphobia stand up for white Christians with the same fervor.
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I am sorry but we have fucking laws. If you do not follow them than it is on you. But yeah it is their culture so child marriages no problem as long it is based on religion. right? Forced marriages? No problem circumcision for girls? ts because of relgion but hey.
Also Animal cruelty which would make PETA run amok for example no problem because otherwise you could be Islamophobic. By the way have you even seen how you get halal meat? I can show you nice videos of animals bleeding to death without anyform of medications, for hours hanging etc. If you thought our animal laws are cruel then you will be surprised how cruel halal food preparation is.
The way so called progressive defend acts that would be a no go if christians did it is astounding.
Also to note: I would go against any ideology who does this I do not care if its Christian, Jewish or Islam or whatever else ideology people follow these days.
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Actually it is accoring to our animal protextion laws. Example no anesthesia is not allowed in most of Europe and If you do this it is not halal anymore.
Circumcision is also against the law in Germany for Girls of course. Still many Muslim families now do it outside of the EU. They go for a holiday and when they come back it did happen. Same with child marriages. Because if they did happen not in the EU or Germany they have to acknowledge these marriages as well here.
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Totally not
Medical benefits of female circumcision
https://www.theislamicmonthly.com/a-tiny-cut-female-circumcision-in-south-east-asia/
Just two examples when I get home and you want more I can show you Much more. It is a radical Islamic thing. And this is a huge problem since the moderate Islam in Europe , middle east, Africa, Asia etc is a very small minority.
I am talking about radical Islam. You know the kind who tells women to wear burka, to sit in the back of mosques to use separate entrances etc . The majority.
Ulysses 31
Gold Member
Also the kind that tell's Muslim women that their testimony is worth half that of a man's in court, can't date non Muslims, can't have multiple husbands, are entitled to less heritage than men.
Alfadawg
Banned
Since you bought up Donald I assume you are American right? America does not have the problem we have. To only imagine that Islam is like American Muslims are is very naive. If Muslims in Europe would be like in America most people would not have a problem AT ALL.
When I am talking about radical Islam I am talking about people suporting Sharia Law. But yes this is not the majority of Muslims...
And these are the people we are getting. This is whats being taught in Europe Mosques all over Mosques who getting financed and staffed by Countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran Rurkey etc. This is why its fucking dangerous. IF you are indeed AMerican you have no fucking idea.
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Alfadawg
Banned
I'm not in America but trump has become the figure head of fighting the mythical radical islam.
While you quiver in fear of radical islam, radical christians are doing far more damage.
The difference between the two is how it's reported.
What's the difference between the Boston bomber and sandy hook? The difference in reporting and perception is staggering yet I would put both incidents on par.
While you quiver in fear of radical islam, radical christians are doing far more damage.
The difference between the two is how it's reported.
What's the difference between the Boston bomber and sandy hook? The difference in reporting and perception is staggering yet I would put both incidents on par.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
People like Tommy Robinson, the EDL or the BNP are way more influential in the UK than anything Trump says. Pinning everything on Trump just takes attention away from issues that exist whoever is in the white house.
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infinitys_7th
Member
No, the difference is the Tsarnaevs were politically radicalized, while Sandy Hook was caused by a literal crazy person.
There was no motivation for Sandy Hook. Prove otherwise.
Yeah I also can not stand the reports of women getting arrested for not wearing a veil. I do hate all these people getting killed because they are gay or trans. I hate all these people getting assaulted for wearing a Kipp by these mean Christians.. Are there radical christians? Yes for sure but they are such a small minority while radical Islam is not. Just look at the graph and how many people want to live under sharia law. Look how Iran has changed in the last 40 years
http://2013ritemail2014.blogspot.com/2013/04/iran-in-1960s.html
Iran today
Iran in which women now get assaulted and arrested for not wearing headscarfs or this shit which by the way has NOTHING to do with the actual Islam but with the radicalisation. To think that Christianity today is any kind of threat is ridiculous while at the same time downplay how much the Islam has changed in the last 60 years and not for the better.
These outfits in the first pic get you arrested now by the way.
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ickythingz
Banned
TDS is real....
luigimario
Banned
You said majority of muslims in Europe are radical. I asked you for cititation. You reply with a study by a right wing group (Policy Exchange) as evidence. And they proudly and loudly showed forty percent of muslims between 16-24 year olds in the UK want to live under "Sharia Law". So that's not a majority is it? One in eight had sympathies for extremists, compare that to the greater than a 1/3 of white britons recently polled who said they would vote for a far-right party (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...urn-to-boris-and-far-right-poll-idUSKBN1KC0EU). I tried to actually look at the questions asked in the survey by Policy Exchange, as I would guess a right wing think tank would have very open questions and may have a teeeny weeeny bias no?
Heres another poll of british muslims : https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...ink-released-results-surprising-a7454761.html
Shows that British Muslims are more likely to condemn political violence than their non-muslim british neighbours. The conclusion of this survey? Muslims in Britain are really no different to any other religious or ethnic group. They just want to live and let live. It was probably a left wing think thank that did this survey huh? Well no, it was the same right wing think tank, Policy Exchange, though this time, they released the results of this survey rather quietly.
Maybe, just maybe, muslims aren't a monolith, and aren't all trying to kill you. Maybe, they're just normal people, who go to work, and try to feed and care for their families and communities? Insane idea, I know, but think about it for a little. Maybe, were all just the same?
luigimario
Banned
Yeah I also can not stand the reports of women getting arrested for not wearing a veil. I do hate all these people getting killed because they are gay or trans. I hate all these people getting assaulted for wearing a Kipp by these mean Christians.. Are there radical christians? Yes for sure but they are such a small minority while radical Islam is not. Just look at the graph and how many people want to live under sharia law. Look how Iran has changed in the last 40 years
http://2013ritemail2014.blogspot.com/2013/04/iran-in-1960s.html
Iran today
Iran in which women now get assaulted and arrested for not wearing headscarfs or this shit which by the way has NOTHING to do with the actual Islam but with the radicalisation. To think that Christianity today is any kind of threat is ridiculous while at the same time downplay how much the Islam has changed in the last 60 years and not for the better.
These outfits in the first pic get you arrested now by the way.
Here is where you are wrong Dunki. Christianity in Europe/America isn't MUCH of a threat (Well actually its becoming quite radical in the USA) but in Africa, South/Central America, in Asia, etc, its practised very, VERY differently....
First of all. This was not about political violence. You also can vote on sahria law during elections etc. And the problem is that younger people are more radicalized then their parents. We have this very problem in Germany and I explained why. The problem is that these children get brainwashed. Another example would be over 66% of Turks living in Germany voted for Erdogan here in Germany. As I said many times before with schools having 90% migrant children Islam becomes the law on schoolyards here. And this does not come from a right wing study group.
Example and which is a huge topic here in Germany. Especially for Berlin
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuillet...gift-der-muslimischen-intoleranz-1594843.html
children getting bullied and threaten based on their religion. You are not muslim you are mostly being completly ignored like you do not exist if you are jewish in Berlin you will face mobbin, threats etc. And huge blame for this are not even their parents but the mosques here teaching these believes because they are being financed outside of the EU and also staffed with radical people teaching in non GErman so it is also hard to control all these places. Look I do not see them as a monoloith. For example: In my aprenticehip I had to deal with some muslims. While one was a total radical asshole who even has threaten mean for saying religion is shit (all religion) there were other who were totally fine and who I would call moderate even though she would never talk with her daughter when shewould marry a non muslim etc. It is ok and not as radical so I am even fine with it since I know this person is also a lovely mother to her children.
However the pew study I have linked also showed how radical the MAIN Islam is. Are the moderate and even liberal Muslims? YES for sure but even in Germany they are sadly not the majority because of so many mosques teaching these radical believes.
As for Christinity in Asia, Africa etc I have no idea I only know that Syrian christiand who end up in refugee camps will be threaten, assaulted etc. It is not a good thing. What we need are strict laws that these radical thoughts should not be allowed and this already starts with treting women differently than men. If you seeking Asylum which is fine if you need help (not economic) but theny ou also have to accept the laws of the country you want to live. IF you do not you need to be deported. SAdly this is not the case right now. and therefore we have a lot of problems even with Turks living 30+ years here already thanks to Erdogan...
Alfadawg
Banned
How many innocent muslims have died in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria from UK bombs?
While fighting the IS? I do not know I just know that a war was the last chance and now its on Syria to get out of this and become a democracy or a land people want to live in. War sadly will cause innocent people to die but it is always for a chance of a better future.
Alfadawg
Banned
So why get so upset over 70+ dead people in the UK? Innocent people die in war as you say? So how is the war on terror different?
Are you for real now? Why did Americans fight against the Germans in WW2? How many innocent people do you think died during their attacks with bombers etc?
One is fighting for a future and a better place and one is for causing fear and terror to archive a political goal. To compare what the UN did to terroists attacks is not only insulting to the victims but to our whole society who belives in a free world..... I can not even believe I have to explain the difference between a Terrorist and the UN/NATO etc.
But here let me show people beign freed from IS mabye then you will understand
And now Voictims of Terror attacked
Mabye you see now the fucking diference.
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Mahadev
Member
It could be argued that neoconservatism and neoliberalism are far more dangerous ideologies than Islam and have ruined way more lives and honestly it's a pretty good argument despite comparing pretty different things. In fact Islam was partly radicalized because of American and European war criminals' actions, war criminals that are still respected in Western countries instead of rotting in prison like they deserve. Doesn't make Islam any less awful though.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
^ Also western governments have shown they're fine with supporting islamic extremists as long as it suits their geopolitical goals.
The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few in a war atleast.
Agai this was for a better future. For men and women also children having a better future. To fight radical terror like the IS. To save them from slavery, etc. IT always fucking sucks when people die in a war but this was not something that could be avoided. It needed to be done and if the world had acted way earlier it would have never come to this huge war.
Yes and this something we should critize for example supporting the Iran should be out of the question. THe only Country that deserves Support right now and is an Islamic State is Saudi Arabia since their new prince is changing the country slowly but steady to not make the people mad and upset. The things he did in this short amount of time deserves praise and I hope he will continue.
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