ShogunDarius
Member
A Defensive Gief is hard to beat
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Street Fighter V |OT3| Frauds Among Us
- Thread starter Garrett Hawke
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I don't mind SFIV. TBH, it's probably my most played Street Fighter. Was never a fan of the Ultra combos and Focus attacks.
ShogunDarius
Member
I always hated 4
Yeah, I think these ones fall on the "fair enough" side -- heck, some characters like SF4 Makoto basically revolved around those.
They just don't want to see any throw OS make a come back, since a large part of the meta they wanted for SF5 seems to be about opening up your opponent with mediums and heavies, making the throw game and the shimmies a very important part of it all.
lucebuce12
Member
Unless you're playing as FANG, then it's the easiest match of your life.
Garrett Hawke
Member
4 was the first SF I ever played... I was in the Philippines over Christmas break and they still had arcades, so I went there with a friend and one of the fighting games was SFIV. I decided to try it and as soon as I got home afterwards I bought USFIV on PS4. I wasn't super fond of it, but someone in the SFV Beta threads gave me a beta invite on Steam and I managed to play it and fell in love.
So good.
So good.
Joudan is cool, but it doesn't really add anything to the character, to be honest. Ryu is pretty much complete.
I want to believe. I really do.
This is turning into one of my favorite fighters ever.
I'm just going to focus on how fun it is and the fact that I'll have ibuki within 6 months.
lucebuce12
Member
I want to believe. I really do.
This is turning into one of my favorite fighters ever.
I'm just going to focus on how fun it is and the fact that I'll have ibuki within 6 months.
Similar situation for me, just replace Ibuki with Guile.
Guile is my bro for life. Especially after Charlie's changes.
I need my archetypal booms.
Actually, Alex, Guile, and Ibuki are all three mains for me.
ShogunDarius
Member
just took on a laura who defaulted to pushing me into a corner and throwing repeatedly
Garrett Hawke
Member
I main Mika atm but I really want to get back in with Cammy too. I just find her really tough to use in this game because she has so little health. Need to get better at not getting hit
CrackpotDesert
Banned
Did you win?
ShogunDarius
Member
"God's Beard!"
Member
The alternative is letting moves cancel on whiff like an MVC game which is even worse. It would eliminate footsies almost entirely on the spot.
BronsonLee
Member
That OT title is amazing.
AND THE FRAUD IS ME *quits*
lucebuce12
Member
Throwing someone repeatedly on wakeup when they're in the corner is surprisingly effective. They keep thinking "No way they're gonna throw again".
"They just threw me twice, they're not gonna throw a third time"
"Ok that's three, probably a meaty crush counter attempt now... OH SHIT"
"Fuck it, I'm just gonna tech"
and that's when they try to do a meaty.
Garrett Hawke
Member
reported
It's funny as fuck when it happens in big tournaments between 2 great players. Makes them look like fucking scrubs, but this shit gets into your head.
A coworker is maining Cammy, and he destroys me.I main Mika atm but I really want to get back in with Cammy too. I just find her really tough to use in this game because she has so little health. Need to get better at not getting hit
Her walk speed is her best asset it seems, abuse it to install a mix-up between throws and mediums and let your opponent's brain melt away. Finish them with a barrage of st.LK for maximum salt. ^^
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";198150447]The alternative is letting moves cancel on whiff like an MVC game which is even worse.[/QUOTE]
Yep, that is one of the reasons I could never get into MvC or versus games that mimicked the formula, like Skullgirls.
toastyToast
Member
Am I missing something or is Cammy's V-Trigger the most pointless in the game? Pretty much gives you 2 EX-ish attacks or if you use them in a combo you get maybe 30 extra damage compared to non trigger.
It's boring but pretty good imo. V trigger cannon strike is great actually.
200k physical in US + ~50k physical in Europe + ~50k physical in Japan +~100k worldwide on PC = 400k
And that's not including any digital PS4 sales, or anything past the first week for Europe/Japan, so it's probably closer to 500k.
Which is...ok, but Capcom was expecting this to be a mega-hit with 2 million shipped, so it's definitely not near expectations.
Granted, this is the kind of game that will almost definitely have legs as they add more content to it, but that is not a great launch.
Exr
Member
I loved this aspect of 3S too. This game has no input lag with old te sticks right.)?
This is exactly why I've been saying that as the game develops, the characters that have invincible reversals and 3 frame normals are going to be the ones that are at the top of the tier charts.
More often than not I'd just rather eat the throw than the crush counter, because I play as Bison and guess throw tech or block are my only two options. Having a DP would be a third option.
lucebuce12
Member
I believe it's a little more than that since you can combo spike after the drill.
The best benefit of it is the MENTAL effect. Having the ability to just all of a sudden drill from almost half a screen away makes your enemy play more defensively then they normally would.
Yeah, I still haven't let go of my bad habit (even at the time) from SF4 to throw tech after each hit I took in guard, and I'm getting opened like crazy in SF5.
I need to get into that mentality of "better eating that throw than a CH or CC combo"...
Stone Ocean
Member
Stop looking at her VT as just a combo extender and use the empowered Cannon Strike for mixups
It's a really bland VT but at the same time it's very versatile. Combo extender, super confirm, mixup tool, fireball punishing, you name it.
Great combo extender. Vskill drills go through projectiles, and vskill dive kick is great for mixups.
I usually don't do the typical drill > upper ender. I like to save a bit of meter because it alters how the opponent has to approach me and limits the moves they can do because vskill drill is super good at punishing whiffs.
Chronospherics
Member
Pretty much this.
It was the game everyone was playing so rather than whine about shit everyone with a competitive mindset just adapted. However, now that we have a new game that's gotten rid of many elements in IV, it's easy to explain why I like this much more than the previous iteration.
Capcom did a good job keeping it alive and fresh though, which did help.There was a brief period of time where the game really began to fall apart, with unblockable setups and set play making the game entirely inaccessible for anyone not willing to put thousands of hours into the game.
Even things like the roster size irritated me. There were so many subtleties to learn regarding my own character, that the idea of learning matchups became a daunting prospect. The chances of having something like a good Vega or Hakan at your locals to practice against were slim to none, allowing only the most dedicated of players to adapt to these very specific scenarios by finding particular players to run sets with, online.
A lot of it comes down to accessibility, I want to be at least decent at a fighting game without feeling I need to put my entire life into it, and SFV allows that. I feel like, with the 16 character roster, I do actually have the time to learn the matchups. This is aided by the simplified execution, allowing people to focus more on the fundamentals of the fight, strategy, footsies, and the neutral game, rather than feeling they need to spend most of their time in training, grinding execution. Light bnbs and FADCs heightened this focus, allowing you to get long confirms with complicated combos from any 3 frame normal.
But, more than that, things began to develop a sense that not all scenarios were exactly fair, and that's not especially enjoyable. It was too easy to get placed into 50/50 scenarios, while things like option selects took the strategy away from many aspect of the game.
It was still a cool game though and I think that despite the gimmicks and huge roster for the most part solid play came through, and the best players were winning. I have a very high regard for the players able to play the game at its highest levels, but it wasn't for me and I think for a lot of people, things like the execution barrier had them wanting to play other things as the road to the top just looked too far away. It's not that way in SFV.
I guess a lot of my frustration with IV can be summarized by my thoughts when watching top players
When I watch top players do something cool on V, I think "That was neat, I can do that, I should add that to my game!'
When I see the same thing in IV, I think "I wow, I don't have the time to learn to do that, but that was cool"
ShogunDarius
Member
just beat my first Vega in ages, and every time I see a Vega I think of Thomas Middleditch XD
CrackpotDesert
Banned
A VTriggered Birdie headbutt fucking hurts.
DiscoShark
Banned
But you can backdash, avoid the throw attempt, and eat the counterhit that more often than not will lead to absolutely nothing because you'll be in an airborne state.
Just don't do it against Mika because meaty f.HP will wreck your shit regardless.
toastyToast
Member
It's definitely an improvement but you get 2 which is crazy. Chun has a good 15s of fuck your life up pressure.
When you say mix ups with strike what are you referring to that you can't do ordinarily? There's the cross over property and the fact that it's quicker and safer but I'm not seeing anything else.
Ordinaryundone
Member
It makes her non-EX divekick safer, it's worth it for that alone. Also, comboing V-Trigger Spike into Strike let's you tack on some pretty serious damage, given how easy it is.
Yeah. It's more than half screen. Cammy's weakness is you can reasonably zone her out. Once she gets in you're in trouble. But once she gets V-trigger she can get in whenever she wants, and you can't zone her because she's instantly close the gap and probably juggle you in the process.
I'm trying really hard not to hate Bison the way I hate SF4 Bison, but man does that guy feel like the closest to "unfair" / broken of the cast to me so far. Does anybody here not have any trouble against Bison? Pretty much everything he does is safe. You can't jump at him because of his almost instant A2A attacks, his V-trigger is just disgusting, and for someone with supposedly poor throw range his grab rate against me has got to be above 50% because he doesn't even do a grab animation (unless he whiffs). He's standing there what looks to be well outside of throw range and all of a sudden I'm spinning in the air. Ok, learn to anticipate the psychic throw, sure. But then you add in how safe and how damaging his pressure is, how long the combos are, the ambiguous stuff that he's always had, the fact he's "not safe" after scissors but he really still is because he's outside of punish range,... it's getting to me a little bit. I know most of it is matchup experience, but I can't even think of a character I'd put in the same class as far as how hard I have to work to just stay in the match. Meanwhile the opponent is over there pressing buttons.
A couple of related questions: Can he control where his EX/V-trigger devils reverse goes (as far as P1 side / P2 side)? What move of his can you actually crush counter on block?
Secret Character
Member
This is the best part of a lot of V-Triggers. Other than a few characters, the psychological effect of a V-Trigger could completely change a match. I recently swapped characters to Dhalsim, and popping his trigger changes the tempo of the match. You have people who don't know how to deal with it trying to frantically get away from the fire, only to get hit because they stop playing safe, and you have people who get real patient. Both of which are easy targets for Sim.
Same thing happens with Zangief. If you pop his V-Trigger, you know that you'll be taken for a ride if you aren't careful. A good player will probably jump after the vacuum, but if you do it again, you can get them with an air SPD.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Yeah, I noticed she's a lot quicker than anyone else. Practice time I guess!
Yea doing cr.mp, cr.mp, v-drvill, v-spike is like 40% and it's super easy to execute and confirm. On paper her V-Trigger sounds bad, but if you cash it out correctly it's pretty devastating.
CountBlack
Member
What I do really like about the current version of this game and I hope they don't change is the damage. It really reminds me of Vanilla SF4 where a lot of the cast did an absurd amount of damage on more basic things. Also with the fact that CA's don't scale less than 50%.
I hope these things stay remotely the same as the game changes throughout the years.
I hope these things stay remotely the same as the game changes throughout the years.
DiscoShark
Banned
So with regards to Bison -
1. He has a really difficult time dealing with patient or defensive opponents, like a lot of characters without an overhead or command grab he's just not well equipped to open up people who can block. He gets his damage almost entirely off of the throw/crush counter game. And either V-reversaling or backdashing after he's put you in a position to play it is your best option.
2. None of his moves, on block, put him in an instant crush counter state but his most unsafe special move by far is his flame pillar. If you block a flame pillar you have a free combo. If you block any of his other special moves then you can safely consider his -turn- over and you can throw out whatever ranged normal you have to challenge his next sequence. It may not hit if he's decided to block but if you get him to the point where he's forced to block at all then you're on the right track.
3. Don't respect his dash. Seriously. He can get by dodging some of your moves if hes timed it -just- right but in any other instance anything on block or hit -> dash for him is an unsafe option. If you go into training mode to learn how to deal with anything with Bison do it to learn how to beat his Dash. My suggestion would be to record a dummy doing HK (since it's super + on block) into Dash forward block. If you can get to the point where you're consistently punishing that then you'll be golden.
4. His wakeup game is garbage. If he doesn't have super he has nothing. This is where you can destroy him.
5. He can't control where EX V-triggered devil's reverse goes.
V-Triggered Devil's Reverse appears behind the opponent
V-Triggered EX Headstomp appears right in front of the opponent at time of activation (and is + for some reason lololol) but if you're moving forward you can end up crossing yourself up.
V-Triggered Headstomp into EX Devil's Reverse is ??? because no one uses it.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Vega is faster
ShogunDarius
Member
Mika sounds sooo much like Naruto, I cant unhear it
She has a disgusting voice, I'd rather hear Ibuki's voice all day.
I have her set to Japanese and I'd rather prefer that than Naruto-esque VO
ShogunDarius
Member
the fact you can adjust certain voices individually is amazing
Excellent info, thanks a bunch. I knew how to deal with the teleport, it was really the waiting out those blocked normals that was getting to me. I guess I have full/mid screen patience, so I generally do alright against most of the cast, but incorporating this should help me against my current nemesis.
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