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Street Fighter V |OT3| Frauds Among Us

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F

FluxWaveZ

Member
CrackpotDesert said:
I feel bullied when I die to the same stuff every time, but it's more like I suck at the game.

V-Trigger Birdie gains movement speed as well as damage to EVERYTHING, not just his headbutts. Not that it did me any good.
Click to expand...

It's really scary.

The typical game plan for Mika was working well against you, since you were very frequently in the corner. I'm not great at giving advice and I know very little about any character that isn't Mika, but I would say you weren't scared enough of her command grabs. After the charged dive kick, you would pretty much always just stay blocking on the ground, so I started to exploit that. The same for when you were in the corner and I would tick throw all the time. It can be scary in the corner because of Lady Mika, but you should at least be neutral jumping more in general against her.
 
C

CrackpotDesert

Banned
FluxWaveZ said:
It's really scary.

The typical game plan for Mika was working well against you, since you were very frequently in the corner. I'm not great at giving advice and I know very little about any character that isn't Mika, but I would say you weren't scared enough of her command grabs. After the charged dive kick, you would pretty much always just stay blocking on the ground, so I started to exploit that. The same for when you were in the corner and I would tick throw all the time. It can be scary in the corner because of Lady Mika, but you should at least be neutral jumping more in general against her.
Click to expand...

Dude, charge Dropkick is + on block, I can't press buttons after it. It's either LK > Command Grab, MP > Corner Carry, or MP > MP > Flying Peach.

Believe, me I'm plenty scared of her command grabs. I figure I'm in the positive when I eat one on wakeup rather than falling for Lady Mika > MP > Peach, because it means I can punish afterwards if I block it, rather than getting launched, trying to jump away from Lady Mika.

spazchicken said:
Does one else shake with adrenaline after a close match?
Click to expand...

Those kinds of matches makes me have to get up and walk around a bit.
 
Mediking

Mediking

Member
spazchicken said:
Does one else shake with adrenaline after a close match?
Click to expand...

When I lose after a close match, I almost always press my hands against my face and ask myself, "Good game... but...What can I do to win?"

Whenever I win after a close match, I feel incredibly proud yet also sad for the person who lost because losing a close game can really hurt.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
CrackpotDesert said:
Dude, charge Dropkick is + on block, I can't press buttons after it. It's either LK > Command Grab, MP > Corner Carry, or MP > MP > Flying Peach.

Believe, me I'm plenty scared of her command grabs. I figure I'm in the positive when I eat one on wakeup rather than falling for Lady Mika > MP > Peach, because it means I can punish afterwards rather than getting launched, trying to jump away from Lady Mika.
Click to expand...

Mika can't do ch.HK > st.LK > Command Grab unless it's her EX Typhoon (hqcb P). She's out of range for any other command grab if she goes for a link like that.

She also can't go from ch.HK > st.MP that easily. You have a 3 frame window to operate within that link if she went for it. Birdie doesn't have a 3 frame jab, but his EX headbutt thing would work or just walking backwards.

But, again, you just weren't jumping. I just went against a Ranked Birdie who would neutral jump all the time to call out the ch.HK and would do it after he blocked it, and that was a pain to deal with. You were never jumping after the ch.HK, so I just felt free to command grab over and over again after it landed.
 
W

Whales

Banned
Mediking said:
When I lose after a close match, I almost always press my hands against my face and ask myself, "Good game... but...What can I do to win?"

Whenever I win after a close match, I feel incredibly proud yet also sad for the person who lost because losing a close game can really hurt.
Click to expand...

My reactions vary, sometimes I try to reversal dp and it doesnt work then I lose im like " aw well too bad"

If I lose to a wakeup DP I punch the sofa thinking " HE DARED DO IT!!"

When I lose to a situation where I could have won ( ex: guy jumps in, but im too slow to dp so he hits me first and I get KOed) = god dammit I could have got this, time to go train DPs again

But the shit that makes me 150% salty is when I crossup, he blocks, I then grab when I land but my char just whiffs then he grabs me and I get KOed. In those situations I control myself real bad to not throw the DS4 at my TV lol
 
C

CrackpotDesert

Banned
FluxWaveZ said:
Mika can't do ch.HK > st.LK > Command Grab unless it's her EX Typhoon (hqcb P). She's out of range for any other command grab if she goes for a link like that.

She also can't go from ch.HK > st.MP that easily. You have a 3 frame window to operate within that link if she went for it. Birdie doesn't have a 3 frame jab, but his EX headbutt thing would work or just walking backwards.

But, again, you just weren't jumping. I just went against a Ranked Birdie who would neutral jump all the time to call out the ch.HK and would do it after he blocked it, and that was a pain to deal with. You were never jumping after the ch.HK, so I just felt free to command grab over and over again after it landed.
Click to expand...

EX Headbutt would be EX Bull Horn, which is a button charge. That move has armor, but there's no time to do it on reaction from a dropkick. EX Bull Head has armor, only in the beginning, and for a longer period while V Triggered.

Play Birdie for a bit and see what I'm dealing with.
It feels unwise to jump after blocking dropkick. It's better to avoid it entirely.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
CrackpotDesert said:
EX Headbutt would be EX Bull Horn, which is a button charge. That move has armor, but there's no time to do it on reaction from a dropkick. EX Bull Head has armor, only in the beginning, and for a longer period while V Triggered.

Play Birdie for a bit and see what I'm dealing with.
It feels unwise to jump after blocking dropkick. It's better to avoid it entirely.
Click to expand...

Birdie was my go-to during the Beta phases, but no way am I playing anyone but Mika (and now, Ryu I guess) anytime soon.

I meant Birdie's horizontal movement dash thing, not his vertical attack. Is that EX Bull Horn? It has a 1-frame startup or something like that, right? That's a possible answer for that situation. Though I'm just saying this because if you just stay sitting after the plus frames of her drop kick, you'll always get thrown.
 
C

CrackpotDesert

Banned
FluxWaveZ said:
Birdie was my go-to during the Beta phases, but no way am I playing anyone but Mika (and now, Ryu I guess) anytime soon.

I meant Birdie's horizontal movement dash thing, not his vertical attack. Is that EX Bull Horn? It has a 1-frame startup or something like that, right? That's a possible answer for that situation. Though I'm just saying this because if you just stay sitting after the plus frames of her drop kick, you'll always get thrown.
Click to expand...

Bull Horn is typically a rising attack, but the EX is horizontal. Like I said, it's a button charge, doing it on reaction is out, I need to have it already in the chamber.

EX Bull Head doesn't attack straight away compared to Bull Horn.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
CrackpotDesert said:
Bull Horn is typically a rising attack, but the EX is horizontal. Like I said, it's a button charge, doing it on reaction is out, I need to have it already in the chamber.

EX Bull Head doesn't attack straight away compared to Bull Horn.
Click to expand...

Oh, I see now by looking up the frame data. Yeah, Bull Head wouldn't be the thing to do there, and Bull Horn on reaction wouldn't work. EX Bull Horn on anticipation would definitely work, though (e.g. holding it awaiting for a ch.HK, and then doing it as a hard read if you don't think they'll be going for a command grab and instead go for the TC or a st.MP).

SlimXx said:
EX bull horn has armor on frame 1, but it takes 15 frames to actually hit and is not throw invincible. If Mika just goes for a command grab in that situation, you'll just get grabbed.
Click to expand...

Or rather, just make that st.MP, since she'll probably be able to block it if she does st.LK and waits a bit.
 
S

SlimXx

Member
EX bull horn has armor on frame 1, but it takes 15 frames to actually hit and is not throw invincible. If Mika just goes for a command grab in that situation, you'll just get grabbed.

Another fun thing is that, unlike other special moves, bull horn requires single frame precision to be used as a reversal. If you release the buttons one frame too early, you just lose the charge and nothing comes out.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
Man, that tourny was ridiculous. Lots of good shit all around. The character select is Ryu, Chun, Mika (lol), Charile, and Nec I believe. Less variation from last time, but given a month or so and we'll see people start branching off.

Also, because this game is early as fuck, people are just letting Mika run a train on them through Marn. He was getting away with some silly shit today and I hope people catch onto that tomorrow.

Glad Alex trailer is tomorrow because I'm so pumped for him. Having all that content on Monday is sick too.
 
C

CrackpotDesert

Banned
SlimXx said:
EX bull horn has armor on frame 1, but it takes 15 frames to actually hit and is not throw invincible. If Mika just goes for a command grab in that situation, you'll just get grabbed.

Another fun thing is that, unlike other special moves, bull horn requires single frame precision to be used as a reversal. If you release the buttons one frame too early, you just lose the charge and nothing comes out.
Click to expand...

You sure that's not EX Bull Head? I'm sure I'm seeing EX Horn hit armor WAY later after it activates.

EX Head would be the double headbutt, the viciously multihitting armored attack in Trigger. EX Horn is the unicorn horn dash following with a launch.
 
L

leroidys

Member
Garrett Hawke said:
I'm pretty sure the Souls games aren't on Unreal Engine... they use Havok physics but pretty much every game does :p SFV uses Unreal Engine 4, which is completely different to Unreal 3. It's way more than just a number change and more a generational leap in pretty much everything.

Unreal 4 has support for incredibly advanced physics, including Apex cloth, which as you can see here is very good!

It's not an Unreal issue, it's purely a rendering choice from Capcom as cloth simulation and physics interaction between meshes are very expensive to calculate. As an example, Lara's belt in Tomb Raider 2013 had completely static tools - when they did the next gen port, they applied physics to the tools, allowing them all to move and sway independently as she moved. This wasn't possible on last gen because the power was so constrained that calculating collision on models which were such small details wasn't worth it. You can see this in Arkham Knight (an Unreal 3 game) - the different pockets on Batman's belt all move independently, as well as the needles on Scarecrow's coat, Officer Gordon's jacket, etc :)

Edit: an example of Paragon, a UE4 title that is also 60fps on PS4:
eZAreyY.gif


Notice how despite the cloth bouncing around a lot it never clips through any part of his mesh.
Click to expand...

Ah, you're totally right. I got this idea from Demons Souls threads a few years ago and never fact checked it. I'll stop posting bullshit :p

Thanks for the civil and informative post.
 
S

SlimXx

Member
CrackpotDesert said:
You sure that's not EX Bull Head? I'm sure I'm seeing EX Horn hit armor WAY later after it activates.

EX Head would be the double headbutt, the viciously multihitting armored attack in Trigger. EX Horn is the unicorn horn dash following with a launch.
Click to expand...

I meant beginning on frame 1, not only on frame 1. Most other armored specials don't gain their armor until frame 3.
 
E

ElFly

Member
Some guy on Shoryuken showed me this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhoWmctoRGU

and I made a followup with some more practical examples in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gbP9wGaWoI

Basically, Siberian Express as is is almost useless, and the Ex version, which supposedly has two hits of armor, a lot of times has only 1 effective armor hit, or even 0 armor hits, depending on what is hitting and/or when. Which makes Ex Siberian Express almost as useless as the regular version. The followup has some more practical examples, like Rashid's fireballs, which always cleanly hit Zangief's Ex SE, and Birdie's banana, which absorbs one hit, but if combined with another hit, just stuffs the SE. Mika's drop kick will almost all the time cleanly (!) hit Zangief, but from time to time it will work as expected, with him grabbing her after she falls down. Cammy's cannon drill just laughs at this move. Even if for some reason the armor works, she will never be grabbed, even if Mika can theorically be grabbed from her drop kick.

Most of the examples happen when two hits touch Zangief in quick succession (not necessarily at the very same time, just very closely), but some just defeat Zangief cleanly sometimes, like Mika's drop kick, which is crazy cause sometimes it will work as expected.
 
Z

Zackat

Member
The skill range in Bronze is still just astounding. Complete scrubs and competent players within 300-500 points of each other.
 
E

ElFly

Member
Zackat said:
The skill range in Bronze is still just astounding. Complete scrubs and competent players within 300-500 points of each other.
Click to expand...

Competent players are prolly there recovering from a losing streak from being matchmade with way better people.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Edzi said:
I don't know how people can get hype over Marn's Mika. Seeing really good players knocked out by a character that works the way she does is kinda annoying.
Click to expand...
It's like watching a monster car show. You are there precisely because you want to see the wreckage.
DR2K said:
Laura is broken. Seriously fuck her. Scumbag character. I'm salty as fuck.
Click to expand...
I hated her guts for a while. Luckily she doesn't get as much use as the other ladies. I'd rather fight Mika any day of the week.
ElFly said:
Competent players are prolly there recovering from a losing streak from being matchmade with way better people.
Click to expand...
They're there because they've been fighting the occasional 1K LP lagger/rollbacker that mysteriously starts lagging after you've taken the round or they run into some astonishing low LP player that somehow plays like someone with 4K LP. I'd rather fight nothing but 3K and 4K LP players, but I get nothing but 1K to 3K guys that ragequit, lag and bullshit their way through matches constantly. I'm more mentally exhausted by ranked matches than I am physically exhausted. Ranked needs some fixing beyond the current point distribution that is something for another day.

*Ranked 2/3 battles
*HARSH ragequit penalties
*One character blacklist

I think I'd give up all my current LP just to blacklist Ryu occasionally. Laura was annoying, but she's pretty rare nowadays. Ryu can't stop, won't stop and will only get worse. His ceiling/potential is so high that it legitimately scares me. If Alex sucks I think I'll really pick up Nash because I don't think Mika is quite as bullshit as he is.
 
Z

Zackat

Member
TheSpoiler said:
Man, that tourny was ridiculous. Lots of good shit all around. The character select is Ryu, Chun, Mika (lol), Charile, and Nec I believe. Less variation from last time, but given a month or so and we'll see people start branching off.
Click to expand...

Justin Wong on Karin and Julio on Ken, so the only repeat is Infil and Du on Charlie.

ElFly said:
Competent players are prolly there recovering from a losing streak from being matchmade with way better people.
Click to expand...

You are right, that's about where I am at. I was in an altered state of mind the other day and tanked points hard. You basically have to go on a huge win streak or be much better at the game than I am to escape. Though I suppose that is the point. I need to hit the lab on some stuff.
 
S

Super Rookie

Member
Anyone here have issues with steam family sharing?

With SFV when I log off and my brother logs in on the same PC the tutorial intro starts up again. Then when I log back in tutorial starts again, my favourite character is reset, in the top right corner my LP is shown as 0 but when I play online it shows correct amount however during the match my tag under the health bar is ---- instead of Super_Rookie.
 
U

Ucchedavāda

Member
Super Rookie said:
Anyone here have issues with steam family sharing?

With SFV when I log off and my brother logs in on the same PC the tutorial intro starts up again. Then when I log back in tutorial starts again, my favourite character is reset, in the top right corner my LP is shown as 0 but when I play online it shows correct amount however during the match my tag under the health bar is ---- instead of Super_Rookie.
Click to expand...

Do you log in to your own Windows accounts? The game saves its data in the (per-user) LocalAppData folder, so just logging in to a new Steam account would probably result in that data getting overwritten.
 
S

skLaFarebear

Member
Edzi said:
I don't know how people can get hype over Marn's Mika. Seeing really good players knocked out by a character that works the way she does is kinda annoying.
Click to expand...

Kinda sad seeing people react this way. Marn made some ridiculously good plays, had really good reactions, and refused to be conditioned by his opponents. Infiltration was the only one who actually anti-aired everyone of his jumps and was able to escape the mixup with a character that doesn't even have an invinicble reversal. It's not Marn's problem if people dont want to punish all his unsafe shit and jump-ins. Not to insult any of his opponents, but good players wouldn't have gotten bodied like the way they did if Marn was playing as bad as people thought he was.
 
S

Super Rookie

Member
Ucchedavāda;199339490 said:
Do you log in to your own Windows accounts? The game saves its data in the (per-user) LocalAppData folder, so just logging in to a new Steam account would probably result in that data getting overwritten.
Click to expand...

Ah that makes sense, just changed steam logins not windows, thought steam would sort all that out.

Yup that works, thanks for the help
 
Celcius

Celcius

°Temp. member
Meh, I'm going back to the PC version, not doing all that progress again.
I hope Remy makes it in season 2.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
DryEyeRelief said:
Eh, I feel the opposite but we'll see.
Click to expand...

It's more likely that they will only because I feel like people aren't playing the characters in the most optimal ways. Ones that take more work are going to take more time to be figured out, while more straightfoward characters require less, in a sense. You have tournaments coming up fast and furious with points on the line, people are gonna stay safe for a few months until new tech gets discovered. Like after seeing that ridiculous Rashid mixup, I can't see more top tier players NOT trying to pick him up.

But like I said, this is all in its infancy, and generally how most fighting games start out at the beginning.

skLaFarebear said:
Kinda sad seeing people react this way. Marn made some ridiculously good plays, had really good reactions, and refused to be conditioned by his opponents. Infiltration was the only one who actually anti-aired everyone of his jumps and was able to escape the mixup with a character that doesn't even have an invinicble reversal. It's not Marn's problem if people dont want to punish all his unsafe shit and jump-ins. Not to insult any of his opponents, but good players wouldn't have gotten bodied like the way they did if Marn was playing as bad as people thought he was.
Click to expand...

I was salty about Marn's play, but you are right. Even David said a lot of his shit was open and people just did not punish. But that's kinda what's great about the game - setting the pace really helps to set the stage for victory. Players who can do that are going to do far better, "bad" character or no.

On that subject, I think player flaws are so very apparent in this game. Snake Eyez loves to style, but dude needs to just finish his plate and be done with it.
 
U

Ucchedavāda

Member
Sgtpepper89 said:
Does all characters have the same frames and reach for normal grips?
Click to expand...

Startup is the same, but reach differs per character. I don't know about recovery.


EDIT: Quick and dirty. The following compares how far the grab-range of Chun-Li compares with M. Bison. The filled, blue square is the characters own grab-range, and the filled, light green square is the range of the other character's grab, when measured starting from the end of their hurtbox:
LgsceCH.png


Images are thanks to eiSH on Deviant Art
http://eish.deviantart.com/gallery/58172993/Street-Fighter-V-Hitboxes
 
R

Reizo Ryuu

Member
Garrett Hawke said:
I'm pretty sure the Souls games aren't on Unreal Engine... they use Havok physics but pretty much every game does :p SFV uses Unreal Engine 4, which is completely different to Unreal 3. It's way more than just a number change and more a generational leap in pretty much everything.

Unreal 4 has support for incredibly advanced physics, including Apex cloth, which as you can see here is very good!

It's not an Unreal issue, it's purely a rendering choice from Capcom as cloth simulation and physics interaction between meshes are very expensive to calculate. As an example, Lara's belt in Tomb Raider 2013 had completely static tools - when they did the next gen port, they applied physics to the tools, allowing them all to move and sway independently as she moved. This wasn't possible on last gen because the power was so constrained that calculating collision on models which were such small details wasn't worth it. You can see this in Arkham Knight (an Unreal 3 game) - the different pockets on Batman's belt all move independently, as well as the needles on Scarecrow's coat, Officer Gordon's jacket, etc :)

Edit: an example of Paragon, a UE4 title that is also 60fps on PS4:
eZAreyY.gif


Notice how despite the cloth bouncing around a lot it never clips through any part of his mesh.
Click to expand...

His jacket is actually clipping through the stuff on his legs ;P
Also apex cloth is a pretty bad example because the cpu solution isn't any more accurate than havok or bullet, and the gpu solution is closed source and nvidia exclusive; so you'll never see it on current gen consoles or amd powered pc's

Luckily we are moving away from closed source solutions and are doing more and more through directcompute, which is available on all current hardware.
Maybe in a few years GPUopen will replace Gameworks, because it would be much better for developers as a whole.
 
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