-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Street Fighter V |OTVIII| New Delayed Generation - Controversial Inputs
- Thread starter Reizo Ryuu
- Start date
Jab for AA still in...and it leads to another 50/50 on the ground if a character has a command grab...
Nah this is just too far away from how I like to play...I won't stink up the thread though. I'm really out and going back to my SP games. I don't know how the pros got through this frustration period and this random guessing stuff, but I don't want any parts of it. Freakin Gief is a pure 50/50 now lol...but with normals like a Zoner.
Shoto playstyle is pretty much dead with the best one being Gouki who of course has the most mixup. Nah...this game stopped being for me after season 1.
Can't believe what Capcom has done here. Half the cast is just a guessing of tick tac toe...smh. Pretty whack meta imo.
I mean, I agree that a good chunk of the case relies too heavily on 50/50s and setplay (I've complained a lot about the balancing here), but lumping characters like Alex into it makes me think the problem you have with this game lies more with you than it does the game. As much as we like to complain about its over reliance on setplay/mixups, the game isn't just about guessing and I'd argue that the meta is shifting towards a more slow and footsies based/mixup hybrid ever since Punk's rise. Plus, I remember you getting salty as hell with the DP change removing your ability to randomly shoryuken, so yeah, might be that this iteration just isn't your jam.
allintospace
Member
Karin's Trial 08 is infuriating.
Nemesis121
Member
Ryu Trial 6 is annoying can't get the correct jump angle...
TheSpoiler
Member
Okay, real talk, trying to learn Akuma in Tekken 7 and SFV is a fucking nightmare.
lucebuce12
Member
Ken in S2/S2.5 feels more like a "get in and stay in" sorta character as compared to the YOLO character he was in S1.
I feel like they should've kept SOME of the YOLO factor since that's really what makes Ken, Ken.
You want to play solid Street Fighter? You play Ryu.
You want to play DP and air tatsu simulator? You play Ken.
YOLO Ken's are the most dangerous thing in the world. You don't know if they're playing Tic-tac-toe or 4D chess with their DP choices.
I feel like they should've kept SOME of the YOLO factor since that's really what makes Ken, Ken.
You want to play solid Street Fighter? You play Ryu.
You want to play DP and air tatsu simulator? You play Ken.
YOLO Ken's are the most dangerous thing in the world. You don't know if they're playing Tic-tac-toe or 4D chess with their DP choices.
Just pull out his shotgun in T7 and waste fools.Okay, real talk, trying to learn Akuma in Tekken 7 and SFV is a fucking nightmare.
What if they're intentionally ruining SFV with lack of options and Balrog so SSFV can be the savior version, like how USFIV saved us from unblockables and safe wake up FADC DPs or SSFIV from Sagat, Ryu's super trap, etc?! 🤔
Or Guile if we're talking SFV.You want to play solid Street Fighter? You play Ryu.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Okay, real talk, trying to learn Akuma in Tekken 7 and SFV is a fucking nightmare.
He's so weird in T7, so much slower and then you try do dash but you start running...
I've just ignored him for now and I'm focusing on eliza.
Strangely enjoying Treasure battle, wouldn't mind something like that in SFV, perhaps the fabled extra battle will be similar.
SFV online is like the wild west. There's so many people just straight doing insane YOLO type stuff, and the most annoying part is that a lot of it works due to the lag and unstable connections. Hell, I played a YOLO *Guile* last night who was gold rank and just kept doing wack shit all throughout the set. He took the first game too, which both made me laugh and also tilted me harder than anything else has in recent memory.
Ryu Trial 6 is annoying can't get the correct jump angle...
Is that where you start with mid-air medium punch while the AI is jumping?
TheSpoiler
Member
Yeah I gotta drop one of these Akumas. Tekken 7 Akuma is pretty slow tho but he hits so hard and doesn't have health problems.
I need to have a good hard think about my playstyle in fighting games. I used to just pick a villain or FF style character and roll with it, but SFV and Tekken have such fun characters that I keep hopping around like a dummy. Lately I just like rushing shit down and going ham on dudes so I dunno.
And I love Treasure Battle mode, even if I wish the costumes were a little more varied (Ghost Battle had so much AI to draw from and I keep running into the same dudes in T7), but I'd like something in the lines of a World Tour mode for SFV.
Online will make you hate this game faster than anything. When I get smoked by a Balrog online, that's some bullshit. Or even just Ken doing the same mindless DPs. But offline that shit happens and I'm like "nah dude this isn't too bad". This game is so explosive most days I'd rather just hit up my locals than play online.
I need to have a good hard think about my playstyle in fighting games. I used to just pick a villain or FF style character and roll with it, but SFV and Tekken have such fun characters that I keep hopping around like a dummy. Lately I just like rushing shit down and going ham on dudes so I dunno.
And I love Treasure Battle mode, even if I wish the costumes were a little more varied (Ghost Battle had so much AI to draw from and I keep running into the same dudes in T7), but I'd like something in the lines of a World Tour mode for SFV.
SFV online is like the wild west. There's so many people just straight doing insane YOLO type stuff, and the most annoying part is that a lot of it works due to the lag and unstable connections. Hell, I played a YOLO *Guile* last night who was gold rank and just kept doing wack shit all throughout the set. He took the first game too, which both made me laugh and also tilted me harder than anything else has in recent memory.
Online will make you hate this game faster than anything. When I get smoked by a Balrog online, that's some bullshit. Or even just Ken doing the same mindless DPs. But offline that shit happens and I'm like "nah dude this isn't too bad". This game is so explosive most days I'd rather just hit up my locals than play online.
lucebuce12
Member
Yeah that deals been active for 2 days now. lasts till Tuesday.
CountBlack
Member
SFV on sale on PSN, $20 for base, $10 for S1, $40 for Base/S1/S2.
I paid $33 for some colours and two costumes
I have many regrets.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
Ryu is True Neutral.
Karin is Good Neutral.
Laura is Chaotic Neutral.
Balrog is Evil Neutral.
Guile is Lawful Good.
M. Bison is Lawful Evil.
Cammy is Lawful Neutral.
Peter is THE LAW
lucebuce12
Member
F.A.N.G is Evil Dumpster
Ryu is Good Dumpster
Ryu is Good Dumpster
Omnistalgic
Member
yeah...just not feeling it. Was super hyped because for the balances, but I just don't like the meta. Have you seen the new Gief??!I mean, I agree that a good chunk of the case relies too heavily on 50/50s and setplay (I've complained a lot about the balancing here), but lumping characters like Alex into it makes me think the problem you have with this game lies more with you than it does the game. As much as we like to complain about its over reliance on setplay/mixups, the game isn't just about guessing and I'd argue that the meta is shifting towards a more slow and footsies based/mixup hybrid ever since Punk's rise. Plus, I remember you getting salty as hell with the DP change removing your ability to randomly shoryuken, so yeah, might be that this iteration just isn't your jam.
There is footsie but it's it's about landing a good button and then the set play starts like immediately after that for so much of the cast. Yes, Karin has good footsie, but look at how one hit lands into a combo and then she's in an advantageous position after that. The throw range for example is kinda absurd, it's pretty much like a tic throw almost, but just feels less interesting in how easy it is. Gief honestly, he's so full of crap with that headbutt and spd game, if that's the type of balance I can look forward to, yeah I just don't like.
I really love you guys man...and I was planning on catching up to Flux and hitting master, this community is great. But It's not for me anymore. Even watching some of the top Ken's replays, it's all about the mixup and corner game traps etc...maybe maybe, after a little time off I might come back to Ryu. But really SFV has just left a sour taste in my mouth. Can't wait till Destiny and probably just gonna hop back into FF14.
Been real guys...
Edit: you're right about the DP. Definitely feel that's still one of the worse changes ever. Shoto play is so basic I feel they should always have a get off me move. Not going into the debate again, but at higher level play, I really didn't see DP getting spammed. It's a yolo move, but a calculated risk that you do get punished for. I feel like that actually contributes to more set play. When you fighting a Cammy or Ken or Ryu in S1, you tone that Rush stuff down because you know "this guy just might DP!!" I really wish I had a local scene, but thems the brakes.
Nemesis121
Member
Is that where you start with mid-air medium punch while the AI is jumping?
Yup..
Holy crap... This Ed Guile matchup seems impossible for Ed.
Always play FT3 with a friend, he took 6 games straight(2 sets) with Guile, when i was winning with Ed all night, this is a bad MU for ED..
I paid $33 for some colours and two costumes
I have many regrets.
SFV pricing
sales and whales
not judging though, i bought too many card packs and loot boxes to judge anyone
Yup..
Yeah, it was a little annoying. Catching him on the way down is key. Game is wonky about where you can hit with the Super, too.
CountBlack
Member
DP change still the best thing they've done in this game tbh
necalli with a meterless invincible DP makes no sense at all ever
necalli with a meterless invincible DP makes no sense at all ever
Omnistalgic
Member
Necali has a command throw...and an a crazy trigger...It was fine on Cammy Ken and Ryu IMHO.DP change still the best thing they've done in this game tbh
necalli with a meterless invincible DP makes no sense at all ever
lucebuce12
Member
I'd rather have Necalli with a meterless DP than a Necalli with a nerfed DP and a command grab.DP change still the best thing they've done in this game tbh
necalli with a meterless invincible DP makes no sense at all ever
killu4what
Member
Shotos still have get off me moves it just cost meter. Some characters just have to eat that pressure indefinately.
Omnistalgic
Member
no doubt about it...lolShotos still have get off me moves it just cost meter. Some characters just have to eat that pressure indefinately.
GGS man. That bison set was really fun
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Karin's Trial 08 is infuriating.
I was just banging my head against that one. The key is to wait a few frames after v-trigger activation so that Ryu is lower to the ground when you start the juggling.
CountBlack
Member
Necali has a command throw...and an a crazy trigger...It was fine on Cammy Ken and Ryu IMHO.
Idk about Cammy/Ken tbh. Cammy is one of the most offensive/oppressive characters in the game, that you have to respect unless you have a DP. It doesn't make sense (in SFV terms imo) that right when she gets pressured back you have to respect her lol.
Again, only 4 characters had meterless reversals and all of them were arguably top 7 in S1.
Online Kens still try to mash out DP in the middle of pressure and blockstrings, even when it doesn't work.
The true high level shit though is when they try to mash out HK tatsu.
I do that all the time against rogs and got rocked.
I love when they let me do a full st.hk charge with mika, get the block and still get a full combo or grab mixup because they think they can punish it. Or just block it.
Alternatively i have never escaped laura command grab pressure even when i know its coming
killu4what
Member
no doubt about it...lol
GGS man. That bison set was really fun
Im still steaming about that lol.
Omnistalgic
Member
Cammy is amazing because of her buttons. Just look at the cast now, would Ryu and Ken be top broken tier if they had the old DP?Idk about Cammy/Ken tbh. Cammy is one of the most offensive/oppressive characters in the game, that you have to respect unless you have a DP. It doesn't make sense (in SFV terms imo) that right when she gets pressured back you have to respect her lol.
Again, only 4 characters had meterless reversals and all of them were arguably top 7 in S1.
It was an extreme adjustment to a small fix. Too much reward for DP? Just increase the damage on the CC or something. This game has NO respect, and that's why it's super rando online, and why sometimes even amazing
Pro players get streamrolled.
CountBlack
Member
Cammy is amazing because of her buttons. Just look at the cast now, would Ryu and Ken be top broken tier if they had the old DP?
It was an extreme adjustment to a small fix. Too much reward for DP? Just increase the damage on the CC or something. This game has NO respect, and that's why it's super rando online, and why sometimes even amazing
Pro players get streamrolled.
No, they wouldn't be broken but it'd be a significant advantage over the rest of the cast. Just like how it was in S1. If you want someone to get off of you or to respect you then use meter if you have the read lol.
this game is super random online & offline lol. Imo it's either they share the wealth with reversals to the whole cast or keep it the way it is now.
Give armour attacks frame 1 armour like Birdie's ex bull..something. All of Guile's FK's fully invincible, Juri DP invincible, Balrog has his headbutt back or his upperscrew whatever is frame 1.
Omnistalgic
Member
yup...I'm with all of these adjustments man...I'm telling you guys it would tone down this derp.No, they wouldn't be broken but it'd be a significant advantage over the rest of the cast. Just like how it was in S1. If you want someone to get off of you or to respect you then use meter if you have the read lol.
this game is super random online & offline lol. Imo it's either they share the wealth with reversals to the whole cast or keep it the way it is now.
Give armour attacks frame 1 armour like Birdie's ex bull..something. All of Guile's FK's fully invincible, Juri DP invincible, Balrog has his headbutt back or his upperscrew whatever is frame 1.
Perfect example, Ken has stubby normals, really they range from average to bad, he is only plus when he's close jabbing you. Gief is spamming headbutt and whiffing normals stopping you from throwing fireballs. Your outclassed with normals, a jump is super risky with his tornado move, and he keeps inching forward spamming buttons. What to do? Whiff Punish that mindless crap with a light DP and knock some sense into him.
If Capcom wants everything to be a hard read and 50/50 then every situation should be a true 50/50. Are they gonna DP on wakeup? I don't think so, let's go.
You should have to use that logic with all characters. Yeah maybe some should be behind an EX button for the sake of balance. For example it might actually be too good on Rog with his outstanding normals and comeback game. But yeah I agree most of the cast should have a DP. It's the fundamental 50/50 that's been in SF games forever. It's absence is likely the reason I don't enjoy the game anymore. Had a huge effect on the meta.
CountBlack
Member
yup...I'm with all of these adjustments man...I'm telling you guys it would tone down this derp.
Perfect example, Ken has stubby normals, really they range from average to bad, he is only plus when he's close jabbing you. Gief is spamming headbutt and whiffing normals stopping you from throwing fireballs. Your outclassed with normals, a jump is super risky with his tornado move, and he keeps inching forward spamming buttons. What to do? Whiff Punish that mindless crap with a light DP and knock some sense into him.
If Capcom wants everything to be a hard read and 50/50 then every situation should be a true 50/50. Are they gonna DP on wakeup? I don't think so, let's go.
You should have to use that logic with all characters. Yeah maybe some should be behind an EX button for the sake of balance. For example it might actually be too good on Rog with his outstanding normals and comeback game. But yeah I agree most of the cast should have a DP. It's the fundamental 50/50 that's been in SF games forever. It's absence is likely the reason I don't enjoy the game anymore. Had a huge effect on the meta.
maybe you should play ST if you want to use DP's as a whiff punishing tool lol
You say it had a huge effect on the meta but again.. only 4 characters out of like 20 were changed lol. I have more beef with them taking away one of the only useful defensive mechanics in the game in jump back OS than them taking away meterless reversals.
But yea the offense in this game is most 50/50 central. Tons of guessing to do on both sides.
The thought of Mika/Laura having a DP doesn't really make sense with what they do but then you have the best of all worlds in Necalli.
actually with that said, S3 wishlist for Laura - HP bolt hitting low and being completely invincible frames 1-15
Ryu is True Neutral.
Karin is Good Neutral.
Laura is Chaotic Neutral.
Balrog is Evil Neutral.
Balrog is chaotic neutral now because Ed made him soft.
You should have to use that logic with all characters. Yeah maybe some should be behind an EX button for the sake of balance. For example it might actually be too good on Rog with his outstanding normals and comeback game. But yeah I agree most of the cast should have a DP. It's the fundamental 50/50 that's been in SF games forever. It's absence is likely the reason I don't enjoy the game anymore. Had a huge effect on the meta.
Nah I think they got the balance right with DP's in the new 2.1 patch. It's gives shotos that small advantage without being too powerful due to the different properties from light, medium and high.
Omnistalgic
Member
top tiers effect how the whole game is balanced. But alas, I'm done with SFV. Genuinely, no need to debate about it. Gonna try out Guilty Gear though because it looks so cool.maybe you should play ST if you want to use DP's as a whiff punishing tool lol
You say it had a huge effect on the meta but again.. only 4 characters out of like 20 were changed lol. I have more beef with them taking away one of the only useful defensive mechanics in the game in jump back OS than them taking away meterless reversals.
But yea the offense in this game is most 50/50 central. Tons of guessing to do on both sides.
The thought of Mika/Laura having a DP doesn't really make sense with what they do but then you have the best of all worlds in Necalli.
actually with that said, S3 wishlist for Laura - HP bolt hitting low and being completely invincible frames 1-15
Man, DPs in the neutral are not a thing I think I would want.
That said, heavy DPs do have invlunerability after 2 frames, so I guess you can still use really horizontal heavy DPs like Cammy's or Ken's for those purposes if you have the read. I myself would really like some folks to have better reach on their limbs (well, it'd probably be more accurate to say that certain characters should have more/bigger hurtboxes).
That said, heavy DPs do have invlunerability after 2 frames, so I guess you can still use really horizontal heavy DPs like Cammy's or Ken's for those purposes if you have the read. I myself would really like some folks to have better reach on their limbs (well, it'd probably be more accurate to say that certain characters should have more/bigger hurtboxes).
Omnistalgic
Member
What advantage??Nah I think they got the balance right with DP's in the new 2.1 patch. It's gives shotos that small advantage without being too powerful due to the different properties from light, medium and high.
MP DP an an anti air resets the neutral, unless it's different for Necalli and Cammy, it's not a huge benefit after AA someone and it's not a ton of damage. It's almost inferior to just have a good jab and following up with the mix up. In fact I think it is inferior to characters that have a command grab.
EX DP is the same as characters without one. LP DP stop throws on wakeup. But again, if you have your opponent pegged for a throw, you can probably jab it out for a combo (especially online) or just tech and reset. Why even risk the DP for a throw?
Nah, I don't think there's anything balanced about this game. The only defense is having a good offense...And I foresee command grab characters dominating. Watch out for Gief! Lol...
Sim and Guile the only saving grace for traditional zoner play.
Really do have to go though guys...lol
Keep getting sucked in to this debate. Nothing will change to 2018 regardless.
Nah, I don't think there's anything balanced about this game. The only defense is having a good offense...And I foresee command grab characters dominating. Watch out for Gief! Lol...
Sim and Guile the only saving grace for traditional zoner play.
Really do have to go though guys...lol
Keep getting sucked in to this debate. Nothing will change to 2018 regardless.
Each to thier own then I guess lol. Gief has potential to be strong in this patch but I'm not seeing if a parry and a few new moves will change anything. The real problem lies in defensive options which is something that can be fixed if they choose to.
TheSpoiler
Member
People said Urien, Rog, and Laura were going to dominate the whole season and those characters are struggling compared to Karin, Necalli, and even Akuma in Top 8s.
But ahh I just want better wake up options to better even things out. That and bring back v reversals.
But ahh I just want better wake up options to better even things out. That and bring back v reversals.
People said Urien, Rog, and Laura were going to dominate the whole season and those characters are struggling compared to Karin, Necalli, and even Akuma in Top 8s.
But ahh I just want better wake up options to better even things out. That and bring back v reversals.
Are you implying that those characters aren't top tier and don't have problems? Because they are and do. Tournaments performance isn't everything.
Remember how S1 Chun wasn't winning anything either?
Are you implying that those characters aren't top tier and don't have problems? Because they are and do. Tournaments performance isn't everything.
Remember how S1 Chun wasn't winning anything either?
Laura and Urien were probably top 5 until this Tuesday.
People said Urien, Rog, and Laura were going to dominate the whole season and those characters are struggling compared to Karin, Necalli, and even Akuma in Top 8s.
But ahh I just want better wake up options to better even things out. That and bring back v reversals.
Are there that many notable Urien and Laura players though? And hasn't Smug been dominating every tournament he has been into? Feels like dude has placed very high lot of the time.
Laura and Urien were probably top 5 until this Tuesday.
Laura is absolutely still top 5. Urien might have dropped, though.