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Street Fighter V |OTVIII| New Delayed Generation - Controversial Inputs

S

SolarPowered

Member
The lack of custom input delay settings prematch and no actual ping numbers has really hurt the online experience in this game.
sixteen-bit said:
just because you haven't experienced problems doesn't necessarily mean your opponent isn't in rollback city
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Yep, I wonder about this often. Some gaffers complain about extreme rollbacks to the point of being unplayable while I'm doing combos and playing footsies like I were playing offline. I can't begin to imagine how many hundreds of seemingly smooth fights have been complete rollbackfests for my opponents. It's incredible how this stuff is still such a huge problem in big budget fighters when SG got it right years ago with a much smaller team and a practically nonexistent budget.
 
U

Ucchedavāda

Member
King Awesome said:
People just need to ask if MvCI will have one-sided rollback if they're using the same netcode as SFV. I haven't seen anyone actually working on the game from Capcom acknowledge its existence and they rarely do interviews for SFV at this point.
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According to John "Left Behind" Diamonon, the Japanese devs are aware of the issue and are working on it.
 
P

Pompadour

Member
SolarPowered said:
Yep, I wonder about this often. Some gaffers complain about extreme rollbacks to the point of being unplayable while I'm doing combos and playing footsies like I were playing offline. I can't begin to imagine how many hundreds of seemingly smooth fights have been complete rollbackfests for my opponents. It's incredible how this stuff is still such a huge problem in big budget fighters when SG got it right years ago with a much smaller team and a practically nonexistent budget.
Click to expand...

Skullgirls just licensed GGPO and used 2D sprites. As I understand it rollback netcode is taxing on the game which means devs have to make sacrifices in other areas, typically graphics, in order for rollback netcode to work efficiently. Since most modern fighters are fully 3D the game itself is pushing the system to its limits already because, unlike most GGPO releases, it's not an old arcade game ported to a current gen system. You don't just slap it on the game and go.

So I'm guessing the Kagemusha code was designed to try and create a balance between the game looking good and having rollback netcode. Plus, I'm not sure if GGPO even works well with UE4 or 3D games in general. I think there's only one 3D game, Rising Thunder, that uses GGPO and that game looked very barebones graphically.


Ucchedavāda;236584287 said:
According to John "Left Behind" Diamonon, the Japanese devs are aware of the issue and are working on it.
Click to expand...

I knew he acknowledged it but I wasn't aware he said the devs knew. That's good.
 
P

Pompadour

Member
Grifter said:
Has anyone tried opening the recommended ports for CFN on their router and saw a difference?
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I opened every recommended port for the PS4 and SFV at launch (and do so for every fighting game) and my experience with online has been pretty great. I can't say if that's why as my internet connection is good and I live in America (so people within 100 miles actually play the game) but it certainly couldn't hurt.

Opening ports would primarily allow you to find a match easier and lessen the chance that you'd be connected to your opponent via a server. If the game can't connect you to someone P2P (and closed ports definitely impacts this) they connect you to a server with someone in similar circumstances. These matches are almost entirely garbage because the intermediary server is another hurdle that slows down things.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
King Awesome said:
Skullgirls just licensed GGPO and used 2D sprites. As I understand it rollback netcode is taxing on the game which means devs have to make sacrifices in other areas, typically graphics, in order for rollback netcode to work efficiently. Since most modern fighters are fully 3D the game itself is pushing the system to its limits already because, unlike most GGPO releases, it's not an old arcade game ported to a current gen system. You don't just slap it on the game and go.

So I'm guessing the Kagemusha code was designed to try and create a balance between the game looking good and having rollback netcode. Plus, I'm not sure if GGPO even works well with UE4 or 3D games in general. I think there's only one 3D game, Rising Thunder, that uses GGPO and that game looked very barebones graphically.
Click to expand...
People love to trot out that SG had 2D sprites and therefore it was a lightweight game for GGPO to handle, but that doesn't take into account just how large the character "sprites" were, the lighting effects, 3D objects and whatever else the game has going on under the hood. Even Big Band had to be downsized from the start and it took a lot of work for Lab Zero to get Skullgirls working on the Vita. Even now many people know that SG doesn't have 3 person team hyper combos like traditional marvel vs capcom games specifically because it was too much data for the 360 and PS3's memory to handle at the time. We never even got the HD "sprite" pack with full size sprites on PC because most people said it'd probably be too taxing for online (I regret the opinion I aired since then lol). It's not nearly as black and white as we think and the current gen consoles were rather large improvements. Sometimes there just don't need to be scapegoats when so many other things have gone very wrong with SFV.
 
Z

Zombegoast

Member
King Awesome said:
Skullgirls just licensed GGPO and used 2D sprites. As I understand it rollback netcode is taxing on the game which means devs have to make sacrifices in other areas, typically graphics, in order for rollback netcode to work efficiently. Since most modern fighters are fully 3D the game itself is pushing the system to its limits already because, unlike most GGPO releases, it's not an old arcade game ported to a current gen system. You don't just slap it on the game and go.

So I'm guessing the Kagemusha code was designed to try and create a balance between the game looking good and having rollback netcode. Plus, I'm not sure if GGPO even works well with UE4 or 3D games in general. I think there's only one 3D game, Rising Thunder, that uses GGPO and that game looked very barebones graphically.




I knew he acknowledged it but I wasn't aware he said the devs knew. That's good.
Click to expand...


Raising Thunder

Fuck Riot Games
 
B

Beckx

Member
hmm, tried the beta and couldn't get in again this morning. but it looks like people got in over night so maybe i'm just unlucky.
 
P

Pompadour

Member
SolarPowered said:
People love to trot out that SG had 2D sprites and therefore it was a lightweight game for GGPO to handle, but that doesn't take into account just how large the character "sprites" were, the lighting effects, 3D objects and whatever else the game has going on under the hood. Even Big Band had to be downsized from the start and it took a lot of work for Lab Zero to get Skullgirls working on the Vita. Even now many people know that SG doesn't have 3 person team hyper combos like traditional marvel vs capcom games specifically because it was too much data for the 360 and PS3's memory to handle at the time. We never even got the HD sprite pack with full size sprites on PC because most people said it'd probably be too taxing for online (I regret the opinion I aired since then lol). It's not nearly as black and white as we think and the current gen consoles were rather large improvements. Sometimes there just don't need to be scapegoats when so many other things have gone very wrong with SFV.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a scapegoat. I just think your original argument (SG can do it!) is an oversimplification. I'm not hand waving problems with SFV away like they can't be helped. MKX has better netcode and it's graphically comparable to SFV (although artistically inferior). It could be an issue more with UE4, even, as Tekken 7 is having some of the same issues as SFV (long ass load times) whereas UE3 games seem to run better (Xrd, MKX, Injustice, etc.).

Yeah, SG is pretty complex but it's still sprites textured on flat 3D models. Regardless, I imagine SG runs very efficiently based only on how nitpicky Mike Z is about fighting game design (which is great). He'll probably still be fine tuning it long after it stops being played entirely.
 
Z

Zombegoast

Member
Zackat said:
Why tho

If anything, Riot making a game in the same vein as Rising Thunder would be a good thing. Riot putting out a fighting game would be huge for the FGC imo.


Also, how's Ed? Will get to play it later tonight.
Click to expand...

Raising Thunder was canceled two years ago and so far nothing has happen since.


As for ED, I don't know

Why did I randomly do Machine Gun Blow?
 
G

Grifter

Member
King Awesome said:
I opened every recommended port for the PS4 and SFV at launch (and do so for every fighting game) and my experience with online has been pretty great. I can't say if that's why as my internet connection is good and I live in America (so people within 100 miles actually play the game) but it certainly couldn't hurt.

Opening ports would primarily allow you to find a match easier and lessen the chance that you'd be connected to your opponent via a server. If the game can't connect you to someone P2P (and closed ports definitely impacts this) they connect you to a server with someone in similar circumstances. These matches are almost entirely garbage because the intermediary server is another hurdle that slows down things.
Click to expand...

Nice, I'll try this. I played online a bunch in S1 and connections have rarely been an issue for me, so I wasn't aware of this until now. Didn't think about it until I bought KI and couldn't get a match which made me look up ports to forward.

Wait, PSN ports? I'll need to do that too.
 
P

Pompadour

Member
Grifter said:
Nice, I'll try this. I played online a bunch in S1 and connections have rarely been an issue for me, so I wasn't aware of this until now. Didn't think about it until I bought KI and couldn't get a match which made me look up ports to forward.

Wait, PSN ports? I'll need to do that too.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there's ports for the system itself, as well (and for all systems. Wii U is the worst because you are almost forced to set up a DMZ).

Zombegoast said:
As for ED, I don't know

Why did I randomly do Machine Gun Blow?
Click to expand...

Ed's Flicker? Because you mashed.
 
Spuck-uk

Spuck-uk

Banned
King Awesome said:
Skullgirls just licensed GGPO and used 2D sprites. As I understand it rollback netcode is taxing on the game which means devs have to make sacrifices in other areas, typically graphics, in order for rollback netcode to work efficiently. Since most modern fighters are fully 3D the game itself is pushing the system to its limits already because, unlike most GGPO releases, it's not an old arcade game ported to a current gen system. You don't just slap it on the game and go.

So I'm guessing the Kagemusha code was designed to try and create a balance between the game looking good and having rollback netcode. Plus, I'm not sure if GGPO even works well with UE4 or 3D games in general. I think there's only one 3D game, Rising Thunder, that uses GGPO and that game looked very barebones graphically.




I knew he acknowledged it but I wasn't aware he said the devs knew. That's good.
Click to expand...

KI and MKXL both have excellent rollback netcode* and are fully 3d
 
P

Pompadour

Member
Spuck-uk said:
KI and MKXL both have excellent rollback netcode* and are fully 3d
Click to expand...

I mentioned MKX in my following post. I don't disagree.

KI kind of proves my point, though. It barely looks like a current gen game mostly in service to the rollback netcode. The game plays at 60 fps but runs at 90 fps so it can update the game state more frequently. I don't know if KI's netcode can be beat if a game doesn't also run at 90 (or higher).
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
MrCarter said:
Seems like people are enjoying FANG again lol. Luce, how you finding him?
Click to expand...
I don't think I'm gonna be able to play the beta. I'm out of town at my sister's in-laws.

I've said it before that this is the strongest that FANG has been yet. The buffs in season 2 were decent but the nerfs REALLY hurt. This gives him the best of both worlds. His frametrap game is insane against 4-framers.
 
S

spazchicken

Member
NoctisVsStar said:
Might be me but the game looks cleaner? Like the characters don't got that shadow/black on them
Click to expand...

I noticed this too. I usually play on PC but I've seen it on PS4 before. Now I'm playing the beta on PS4 and the dithered shadows are gone.

I'd say it looks like the PC in high detail, but not quite ultra.
 
U

Ucchedavāda

Member
King Awesome said:
I knew he acknowledged it but I wasn't aware he said the devs knew. That's good.
Click to expand...

It's second-hand, but supposedly Diamonon told /u/l2edford that
One-sided rollback is something that is on their radar and they are currently researching the causes and fixes. I can't speak to what the timeline for approval is (i do know but can't officially say), but please know that the dev team is listening to feedback and are continuing to work on these issues.
Click to expand...
source


CountBlack said:
https://twitter.com/coreagaming/status/862932238945599488

Damn it's crazy cause I've never had these issues playing online ever. Ever ever. Ever.

Fake news tbh
Click to expand...

That's pretty bad.
I wonder if they got routed through the CFN servers because they are playing on the same connection. That's the only explanation that I can think off, other than shit just being straight up broken.
 
E

ElFly

Member
Ucchedavāda;236596044 said:
I wonder if they got routed through the CFN servers because they are playing on the same connection. That's the only explanation that I can think off, other than shit just being straight up broken.
Click to expand...

hahaha that'd be awesome
 
G

Gipsy Danger

Member
killu4what said:
I would say that's a bad thing for the long run. I can see it now, people complaining about matchmaking times while having 400 people blacklisted lol. It will be interesting to see how many players use it as an "I don't want to lose to this guy anymore" list.

It will bring us back to the SF4 days where people would refuse to ever fight you again.
Click to expand...

I agree to an extent. I think it's a great idea on paper. Just stick bad connections or known ragequitters on there but you're right, people can't be trusted and they'll just throw anyone they lose to on it. I don't think that will be a widespread problem or so I hope anyway.

The thing I really hate about the one-sided rollback is that there's not really any way to know if it's happening or not. I guess you could assume anyone who rematches you probably isn't experiencing any issues but you never really know.
 
B

Blueblur1

Member
I messed around with the beta for like 30 minutes last night and I didn't release it. The first thing I'm doing when I get out of work is checking for those shadows.
 
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