Pandora....
The comback mechanic you use when you decide you dont want to play SFxT anymore.
Seriously....whose idea was Pandora? such a terrible system.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Street Fighter V |OTVIII| New Delayed Generation - Controversial Inputs
- Thread starter Reizo Ryuu
- Start date
Pandora....
The comback mechanic you use when you decide you dont want to play SFxT anymore.
NoctisVsStar
Member
What's your agenda?
TheSpoiler
Member
Pandora was legit awful but rarely ever used.
I dunno comeback mechanics are whatever. Shit meter gain is a comeback mechanic.
The most bullshit one is art of fighting where you can kill someone with full health in 4 normals when you reach 1/4 of your health.
I dunno comeback mechanics are whatever. Shit meter gain is a comeback mechanic.
The most bullshit one is art of fighting where you can kill someone with full health in 4 normals when you reach 1/4 of your health.
sixteen-bit
Member
Abigail seems like a really interesting character. Looking forward to seeing how he develops.
TheSpoiler
Member
I feel like maybe Abby doesn't have a set way to be played. I like this. Too early to tell but he has so many tools.
lucebuce12
Member
There are certainly varying degrees of egregiousness when it comes to the implementation of comeback mechanics. First I'll go through some other series before coming to Street Fighter.
The most recent example is Tekken 7's Rage system. Now Rage DRIVES are something that I kinda like tbh. While it is also a comeback mechanic, you have to work for it. You can never just throw a rage drive out there and expect it to work (OK, an argument can kinda be made for Gigas), it's a part of your toolset that meshes naturally. The passive damage increase while you have rage and most importantly, the rage arts are REALLY fucking annoying. They can all be blocked/ducked and then punished in full by pretty much every character so it's not too bad but it adds an almost Street Fighter-ish element to the series that I just don't like because it feels like it's giving too many options to the defender. If he's down on health that's cause he got outplayed and the loser should have to hold that. The damage scaling with how little health you have is also REALLY annoying.
In the case of KI, some are definitely better than others. The S1 cast has arguably the best instincts while S2 and S3 instincts are almost all just bullshit. You can do stuff like invincible reversal cancel into instinct and then react accordingly if they blocked it or got hit (though this can be avoided by moving backwards so that the invincible reversal whiffs entirely) so I don't really mind the activation of it. It's the buffs that the character gets which REALLY annoy me. Eyedol can do literally safe dps where the only way to punish is to use a projectile invincible shadow move. Tusk can cancel his DPs into stomps and other stuff so fuck punishes. Basically they just remove all modicum of skill and awareness by just letting you do whatever and then making it safe and even creating mix up opportunities. S1 cast mostly has to actually work to get something off of those instincts. They buff the abilities that they were already good at, but they don't affect the weaknesses. Orchid can make her DP relatively safe but she has to spend a firecat to do that and time it properly. Jago can get health back but he actually needs to hit a fireball to do that, etc etc. So the S1 cast is decent in this regard but the S2 and S3 cast is extremely fucking annoying.
KoF's comeback factor of giving you meter when a new character comes in is something I really have liked. You still have to work if you want that comeback but having meter gives you the tools to work towards it. It makes comebacks easier but in no way "guaranteed".
MvC3's is the absolute worst. Just shit. Literally nothing creative or good about it. Fuck that.
SFIV's was actually kinda medium in the sense that while it was one opportunity to deliver an intense chunk of damage and straight up win the round sometimes, that was the only chance you had. If the opponent had a read then you're eating a full punish most of the time. It wasn't great but it wasn't the worst.
SFV's idea of the V-Trigger is... not a bad one inherently. Like many things, it's the shitty fucking balance that just ruins it. If V-Triggers were used as tools to react to jumpins, react to fireballs rather than the "hit sweep and cancel into V-Trigger into setplay" which we have now then that'd be infinitely preferable. Some V-Triggers are still decent like Birdie's. It gives him the tools to comeback but those tools still aren't strong enough to the point where he's broken or that his weaknesses are nullified. Some V-Triggers make an already annoying character moreso like Laura and Necalli.
But the common thing among all of these comeback mechanics is that I don't like them (with the exception of KoF) and they don't just give the loser a fighting chance, they give them the means to completely turn the tide. When the amount of work you have to put in for a comeback is LESS than the amount of work your opponent put in to have you in this situation, you know something stinks.
TheSpoiler
Member
A good way to balance that in V is to give more meter for vskill usage. Which they did but many vskills are still too situational.
YOLO Birdie tbh.
Gipsy Danger
Member
Any EU players around for games? CFN Launchpad-mcross.
I have that impression to
He can be played in other ways though
I'm going to be honest here. If people saw this 100% combo in a real match, they would be hyped as fuck. I know I would be.
ST also had 100% combos. Deejay, Dictator and let's not forget the Damdai classic aka Claw vortex.
SF always had an element of dumb stuff. Though that does not excuse SFV for having them too, obviously. But people don't need to act that SFV is the outlier of the series when it comes to that.
Is that from the current comic?
SFV now remembers the last costume (& color) you used for each character on the character select screen, regardless of if you set that character as your favorite or not. Now you won't have to waste time changing the costume to the one you want if you have, say, a pocket Ibuki & you want to use her Nostalgic Costume.
Crankshaft
Member
sometimes things just work
That is hilarious.
sixteen-bit
Member
Does it randomize color and costume if you choose random select? I've always wanted that.
Abigail Day 1 combo video by Desk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBDdBphkVNs
sixteen-bit
Member
Been waiting for this. Thanks.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
I posted that a few pages ago :'[
lucebuce12
Member
They better go full on sci-fi or cyberpunk for next year's CPT stage.
I don't know why but they fucking should.
I don't know why but they fucking should.
Nobody saw it because your post about Ibuki pissed everybody off. Let Chun-Li reign.
???
SFV is the epitome of shit comeback mechanic. I'd say it's worse than X factor since you don't have push block or insane movement options to help out on defense. Simply put, you shouldn't get to cancel an unsafe normal or incredibly fast unsafe special into safety AND pressure all for getting your ass beat. You have all of that on hit and on BLOCK.
It's bonkers and I can't believe people are saying it's ok.
Worse than X Factor.
That's an opinion.
I mean...you get all of what you complain about AND a speed boost. AND more damage depending on how many characters you've got left on your team.
TheSpoiler
Member
X factor was an abomination only slightly saved by the meta using it for offense rather than a straight comeback sometimes
Shadoken
Member
Key difference with this and SFV being you dont get 2 bars of Super by getting beat up. You do however get a full bar of V trigger for getting beat up.
And I'm sticking to it. X factor is horrid but v trigger comebacks are worse. I think, in the context of a fucking street fighter game, Laura waking up jab into v trigger casino 50/50 is worse than a game in which you can use fly/teleport/dash cancels/push block to put together some sort of defense.
TheSpoiler
Member
Uhhh you gain meter by getting hit in 3rd Strike. You can argue the amount, but you absolutely can get a Super in a match from getting hit.
Pulling off situational stuff WOULD be hype as shit. As long as it's not part of an everyday life kinda thing who cares.
Abigail's combo also require a super bar that you don't fill by getting beat up, an opponent with super who is stupid enough to use a raw Sim super, wait for you to reflect it while watching and for some reason not trying to block it!...
All that Makoto's combo require is starting the round with full meter and landing a st.HP in your half of the screen, it's way more realistic than Abigail's!
and just because I think it looks awesome
for anyone who wants to use it
Fucking Saved!
I just got a new one so I'll save it for later.
With good incoming mixups in Marvel those defense options don't matter too much when a Phoenix or Vergil has setup. Even worse characters like X-23 more or less negate the defensive options with their setups.
As far as 50/50s in SFV. They aren't too scary, even Lauras usually have gaps or you can put her in a scenario where her v-trigger doesn't matter much as most of the cast.
that's a v flawed comparison, because mvc3 normally is played in one round only
no matter how overpowered your v-trigger is, it is completely impossible to win a match out of an activation in the first round, no matter how many mixups or reads you successfully do
Really enjoying Abigail so far, even though I might not actually end up using him much. Still playing with Urien.
It got me back into the game bit. I've only been doing the weekly challenge stuff for some time. Although I was only a few wins from silver and went on a huge losing streak, which was frustrating. I don't have lofty ranked goals, but I really want to get decent enough to hit silver. Gotta hit up some tutorial videos I guess.
It got me back into the game bit. I've only been doing the weekly challenge stuff for some time. Although I was only a few wins from silver and went on a huge losing streak, which was frustrating. I don't have lofty ranked goals, but I really want to get decent enough to hit silver. Gotta hit up some tutorial videos I guess.
Shadoken
Member
You gain meter by getting hit in any game. But the amount matters , Doubt Makoto is gonna be able to use her Super. Since by then the opponent would have built enough meter to finish her off.
If SFV needed at least some VSkill usage to get full V trigger in a reasonable time it would be ok. But right now a 1000HP char gets a 3Bar Vtrigger after losing roughly 60-65% of HP.
Lol yea Abigails is very impractical. But stuff like other characters Vtrigger -> One mixup ->Death is real. And feels worse because there are multiple ways to land the Vtrigger and some chars do it off a Jab.
Shadoken
Member
Isnt MvC3 standard 3/5 tho? Also its not like you dont get Vtrigger again the next round.
Its not worse because XFC was universal , but some Vtriggers come pretty damn close.
shockthrill
Banned
how much does Abigail bench press?
More than us