Support NeoGAF

[kirblar]

I'm a Vega player, I don't know what you mean with this "guess if you're going to attack or block on his wakeup". Never been in that situation before.

Wakeups are a guessing game. The defending player is forced to try and guess what the offensive player is going to do. If they think they're going to attack immediately, throwing out an invincible reversal is great. But if the other player does nothing, they then get punished for it.

It's risk/reward. The issue is that being able to cancel out of the reversal lets you get the best of both worlds. If they attack? Reversal! If they block? Cancel->Backdash. The penalty for being wrong is gone, and it's made even worse by the ability for many characters to Ultra their opponent after a successfully cancelled reversal in SF4, so it becomes two potential outcomes of "EAT MASSIVE DAMAGE" or "SAFE", which is completely off of what the risk/reward should be for that type of attack (Momentum change + small chunk of Damage vs going to eat a lot of damage)

 

[Kain]

Wakeups are a guessing game. The defending player is forced to try and guess what the offensive player is going to do. If they think they're going to attack immediately, throwing out an invincible reversal is great. But if the other player does nothing, they then get punished for it.

It's risk/reward. The issue is that being able to cancel out of the reversal lets you get the best of both worlds. If they attack? Reversal! If they block? Cancel->Backdash. The penalty for being wrong is gone, and it's made even worse by the ability for many characters to Ultra their opponent after a successfully cancelled reversal in SF4, so it becomes two potential outcomes of "EAT MASSIVE DAMAGE" or "SAFE", which is completely off of what the risk/reward should be for that type of attack (Momentum change + small chunk of Damage vs going to eat a lot of damage)

I was being sarcastic because with Vega there are usually no advantages whatsoever on the opponent's wakeup, but thanks anyway xD

 

[Sheroking]

Actually, many people would probably tell you that having the ability of potentially getting a lot of damage out of a shoryuken (a 3 frames startup move with invincibility that covers all the startup frames and, at least, the first active frame) is bad for the game no matter what.

Shotos are pretty much always able to super cancel their shoryu's for some of the most damage they can get. I don't see why being able to V-trigger on hit and combo, with scaling, is worse than that.

 

[kirblar]

Desk with an awesome SF4/SFV speed comparison video that actually explains a lot of the "feels like SF4" comments- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnBzIi5nchE The timing on Ryu's stuff really hasn't changed, it's just the pace of other things in the game, so it feels familiar to people who played SF4.

 

[Kouichi]

Desk with an awesome SF4/SFV speed comparison video that actually explains a lot of the "feels like SF4" comments- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnBzIi5nchE The timing on Ryu's stuff really hasn't changed, it's just the pace of other things in the game, so it feels familiar to people who played SF4.

Wow I'm surprised at how much matches up with SFIV. Pretty cool.

 

[Callibretto]

Reversals like uppercuts used to be hard reads. Meaning if you did them and they didn't work, you got punished hard. In SF4, you can cancel them to make them safe (more or less) with focus canceling.

So if you make it so you can't use the V-trigger to cancel reversals, you don't have to worry about that situation repeating.

what's a reversal? the V-reversal move that take 1 V gauge?there's nothing like that in SF4 right? I don't remember there's a reversal mechanic unless I've been missing it for years.

 

[the_log_ride]

Dhalsim is going to get wrecked in this game if he makes it in, huh?

 

[FinKL]

Desk with an awesome SF4/SFV speed comparison video that actually explains a lot of the "feels like SF4" comments- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnBzIi5nchE The timing on Ryu's stuff really hasn't changed, it's just the pace of other things in the game, so it feels familiar to people who played SF4.

Great Desk video, you can clearly see that the throw knockdowns & throw tech create a faster pace as the person that gets thrown ends up on the ground for a lot less and the tech ends pretty quickly than what we're used to in 4.

what's a reversal? the V-reversal move that take 1 V gauge?there's nothing like that in SF4 right? I don't remember there's a reversal mechanic unless I've been missing it for years.

After block stun/waking up, if you input a special move in SF4 you'll get a "reversal" popup is what we're talking about. There's armor-breaking properties on "reversals" in SF4 (and some would call it the mash flag), but in previous versions (SF2?) certain moves gained invincible frames when a move was considered "reversal"

 

[kirblar]

Dhalsim is going to get wrecked in this game if he makes it in, huh?

Per Bogard, there's a new Indian character, so he's unlikely to even be making the initial roster.

 

[Ryu1999]

Dhalsim is going to get wrecked in this game if he makes it in, huh?

Focus attacks were a big reason Dhalsim sucked in 4 so their absence alone would make him a lot better (if he's in the game)

 

[SolidSnakex]

Is there a hires version of this anywhere?

http://www.capcom.co.jp/blog/sf4/saikyo_blog/2015/06/12_8042.html

 

[JP]

It's surprising how much of a difference the lighting effects make to the overall look of the game, they're quite subtle in some ways but I do like them.

Off topic but I'm still holding out for an update to Diablo III which added real time lighting casting to all the spells. It would probably be enough to kill people but I'd love to see it.

 

[ec0ec0]

Shotos are pretty much always able to super cancel their shoryu's for some of the most damage they can get. I don't see why being able to V-trigger on hit and combo, with scaling, is worse than that.

I'm not sure. There's a big difference. If you cancel the shoryuken into your super, at least you used all your hard earned meter. If you cancel it into V-trigger, you're using the meter that you got "for free" by simply getting hit.

From what we have seen, you can get the V-trigger rather quickly: by getting hit + successfully using you V-skill. On the other hand, you're going to need to do a lot more to get a full ex bar.

 

[mentallyinept]

Desk with an awesome SF4/SFV speed comparison video that actually explains a lot of the "feels like SF4" comments- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnBzIi5nchE The timing on Ryu's stuff really hasn't changed, it's just the pace of other things in the game, so it feels familiar to people who played SF4.

Damn... that's kinda disappointing.

I realize that it's still early, but hopefully by the end it doesn't sync up as much as that.

 

[Romars202129]

Those V skills sound really good. It makes me think everyone is probably getting some projectile nullifier. And as a grappler fan this is really intriguing...

 

[LeMaximilian]

Getting a very SFxT vibe from these new vids and especially Nash's chain combos into chain combos into special ender.

 

[Robot Pants]

Q would fit perfectly with the V-trigger system.

 

[CountBlack]

IMO Blanka would be too obvious, I'd bet on Santamu.
She is accompanied by a monkey, was already rumored to be added to USF4, would fill the doll archetype slot in this game and she's from Vietnam, a country which has yet to be represented in SF.
And like we saw with Decapre, Capcom seems keen to develop dolls lately.

please capcom

 

[sixteen-bit]

Q would fit perfectly with the V-trigger system.

What would his buff be? Armor? Health increase?

 

[Clawww]

it's interesting to imagine what many character's v-skills and triggers will do. like, even ken, I'm not sure what he'd get. maybe some kind of taunt with effects? taunt to buff next attack or take more damage on the next hit?

it's going to make the reveals way more interesting knowing we might get all new mechanics along with each new character.

 

[Motion Picture Soundtrack]

What would his buff be? Armor? Health increase?

V-Skill: Health increasing taunt.
V-Trigger: Total Destruction mode.

 

[Greenzxy]

Desk with an awesome SF4/SFV speed comparison video that actually explains a lot of the "feels like SF4" comments- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnBzIi5nchE The timing on Ryu's stuff really hasn't changed, it's just the pace of other things in the game, so it feels familiar to people who played SF4.

Huh? why are Ryu's attacks matching so much now, like didn't he have a different low M/ Low H kick back in live demo back in 2014?

 

[ec0ec0]

Desk with an awesome SF4/SFV speed comparison video that actually explains a lot of the "feels like SF4" comments- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnBzIi5nchE The timing on Ryu's stuff really hasn't changed, it's just the pace of other things in the game, so it feels familiar to people who played SF4.

wow that's not doing the game any favours.

 

[Robot Pants]

What would his buff be? Armor? Health increase?

Non stop grunting

 

[sixteen-bit]

V-Skill: Health increasing taunt.
V-Trigger: Total Destruction mode.

I'm in.

And I was another 72,000-frame explosion animation if he pulls it off.

 

[ElFly]

Huh? why are Ryu's attacks matching so much now, like didn't he have a different low M/ Low H kick back in live demo back in 2014?

They sped up the game.

Maybe to SF4 standards.

The SFV game that was shown earlier with Ryu/Chunli was way slower than this.

 

[fader]

Huh? why are Ryu's attacks matching so much now, like didn't he have a different low M/ Low H kick back in live demo back in 2014?

he did. it looked like he was changing his pants or something but they changed it.

 

[kirblar]

The speed increases are coming from the ability to quick-rise from most knockdowns, faster throw techs, lack of invincible backdashes. Which is a good thing. Increasing the pace in those sorts of ways speeds it up without increasing execution barrier to entry.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Huh? why are Ryu's attacks matching so much now, like didn't he have a different low M/ Low H kick back in live demo back in 2014?

I rather they gave ryu his 3s C.MK and donkey kick back

 

[Greenzxy]

They sped up the game.

Maybe to SF4 standards.

The SFV game that was shown earlier with Ryu/Chunli was way slower than this.

No, I meant animation wise, like when Ryu did his low medium Kick (I think that was) in the live 2014 demo It look like he was kicking his feet like a truck and it felt more realstic, now it looks exactly like SF4 animation. The SFV's animation still feels weighty overall though.

 

[ElFly]

No, I meant animation wise, like when Ryu did his low medium Kick (I think that was) in the live 2014 demo It look like he was kicking his feet like a truck and it felt more realstic, now it looks exactly like SF4 kinda werid unrealistic animation. The SFV's animation still feels weighty overall though.

Yeah, someone else noticed that too.

I kind of digged the old new kicks animations. They gave me a SF3 vibe, because in that game Ryu also changed some of his moves from the 2/alpha/4 standards.

 

[Sheroking]

what's a reversal? the V-reversal move that take 1 V gauge?there's nothing like that in SF4 right? I don't remember there's a reversal mechanic unless I've been missing it for years.

Reversals in this context are just specials you use on wake-up. So any uppercut, messiah kick, flash kick, etc.

I'm not sure. There's a big difference. If you cancel the shoryuken into your super, at least you used all your hard earned meter. If you cancel it into V-trigger, you're using the meter that you got "for free" by simply getting hit.

From what we have seen, you can get the V-trigger rather quickly: by getting hit + successfully using you V-skill. On the other hand, you're going to need to do a lot more to get a full ex bar.

You get ex bar by getting hit, too. At least with V-gauge, you build it the best way by using your V-skill properly, so you "earn" your meter basically.

It's not a problem. Successfully hit-confirming on a risky special SHOULD give you damage.

 

[Momentary]

Desk with an awesome SF4/SFV speed comparison video that actually explains a lot of the "feels like SF4" comments- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnBzIi5nchE The timing on Ryu's stuff really hasn't changed, it's just the pace of other things in the game, so it feels familiar to people who played SF4.

I'm not liking this at all.

 

[Skab]

Huh? why are Ryu's attacks matching so much now, like didn't he have a different low M/ Low H kick back in live demo back in 2014?

Games change while in development? Who knew.

 

[Clawww]

I'm not liking this at all.

I think the attack/combo/cancel timings felt fine in SF4, but the other stuff like slow knockdowns, long techs, and high pushback on everything plus low damage is what stunted the offensive flow. which is pretty much what they've tweaked, so I'm cool with that.

 

[Robot Pants]

I'm not liking this at all.

Too fast? too slow?
Im curious

 

[Greenzxy]

Games change while in development? Who knew.

No shit, I'm just wondering the reasons for the change.

 

[Sheroking]

I think the attack/combo/cancel timings felt fine in SF4, but the other stuff like slow knockdowns, long techs, and high pushback on everything plus low damage is what stunted the offensive flow. which is pretty much what they've tweaked, so I'm cool with that.

You'll find the frame data on Ryu's normals is pretty similar from 3S and the 4 series. It's not actually walk speed or how fast the buttons are that dictates the pace of the game, it's how the game engine/character designs incentivize you to play.

 

[SapientWolf]

V-Skill: Health increasing taunt.
V-Trigger: Total Destruction mode.

V-Skill: Shoryuken
V-Trigger: Random Shoryuken mode

 

[MagnesD3]

Dudley, Hugo, Urien, and Alex or death!!

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Holy shit at that Dailymotion video.

Dynamic music for the rounds like 3rd Strike, super fast and intense pace, supers that look terrific...

Day one.

Spoiler

How amazing would be if Sean takes Ken's roster spot with his pseudo-shoto moveset

 

[sixteen-bit]

Holy shit at that Dailymotion video.

Dynamic music for the rounds like 3rd Strike, super fast and intense pace, supers that look terrific...

Day one.

Spoiler

How amazing would be if Sean takes Ken's roster spot with his pseudo-shoto moveset

@ the spoiler, I love it.

Spoiler

(give him back his 2i 2-part shoryu pls)

 

[nded]

Isn't Ryu supposed to be the familiar entry point to every new iteration of Street fighter anyway? It's not like we don't already have two characters that have had their move lists heavily revamped and the possibility of completely new characters.

 

[LeMaximilian]

Can confirm from Una, SF5 doesn't have chains, but a lot of target combos like 3s.

Ryu's got strong-fierce-roundhouse, Nash Jab-Strong, or Short-Forward. Ryu's isn't special cancellable tho.

 

[ElFly]

Do we know if the supers change during V-trigger, SNK style?

 

[Skab]

Do we know if the supers change during V-trigger, SNK style?

Character specific.

Ryu's Shinku Hadouken turns into a Denjin Hadouken if you use it during his V-Trigger.

Everyone else's (so far) stays the same though.

 

[FinKL]

Do we know if the supers change during V-trigger, SNK style?

For certain characters they do, Ryu's Shinku Hadoken turns into Denjin Hadoken for example. Chun's Trigger doesn't augment special moves, while Ryu's does.
EDIT Dam beaten

Like Max said, I also got SfxT vibes, as a combo takes a good chunk of health. @ 5:50 Bison raw jump in does like 30%. I'm pretty sure you can kill with 3-4 full punishes. Even the throws and pokes do quite a bit.

 

[jett]

Is there a hires version of this anywhere?

http://www.capcom.co.jp/blog/sf4/saikyo_blog/2015/06/12_8042.html

As close as I've seen, from Combofiend's article:

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Do we know if the supers change during V-trigger, SNK style?

I think i saw Ryu super change when he was in V-trigger ( they added some lighting making it Denjin Hadoken ) not certain about the others.

 

[cackhyena]

Games change while in development? Who knew.

How informative.

As close as I've seen, from Combofiend's article:

snip

I love how his coat thing looks kinda painterly.