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Studio Ghibli Producer on Directors "I don’t think it’s a coincidence men are picked"

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Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Sounds like its just a weird theory on the genders, that men make fantasy films and women can make realistic Takahata-like films. Not really a headline though

No it sounds like a stupid sexist theory from an emotionally stunted and diplomatically insensate mummy's boy.


And in a country who's economy has been stunted by asymmetric professional exploitation it's a perfect example of a deeper institutional problem. And quite headline worthy.
 

WaterAstro

Member
Well, we have to remember that Japan is still in this mindset where housewife culture is still a thing. Not only that, females in Japan actually prefer being housewives to be able to take care of children all the time.

Though that doesn't mean a studio should assume that for every woman. I don't think they should pick a woman to be director because she's a woman. They should pick anyone who is qualified, and if it's a woman, then it should be no problem.
 

J2 Cool

Member
No it sounds like a stupid sexist theory from an emotionally stunted and diplomatically insensate mummy's boy.

Yeaa. disagree but fine. He said "it depends on what kind of films we make", not that they wouldn't hire women directors. I don't disagree it's dumb, but Ghibli's employed two directors for how long? He's saying in some weirdly translated way they have intention behind who they choose as directors. If you watch the Kingdom of Madness, there's an odd level of personable-ness to how they attach a director to a project, and they love to give a pr speech about why this director connects to this material.

It's obviously a strange mindset, I just don't think it comes from an attempt to keep women down. More just an outdated concept of gender difference. Ghibli has been known for being progressive-minded, feminist themes, and even set up the studio to cater towards the female employees having nicer bathrooms and what not, which hilariously contradicts gender equality.

I wouldn't disagree it's a sexist theory, but how they arrive at the statement is where I disagree. It seems like a very foreign, culturally influenced statement taken as a whole.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Miyazaki himself probably feels the same way. I mean he was big on Strong Female Characters but he was also a very grouchy conservative Japanese man.

Miyazaki is grouchy but by no means conservative. He's pretty outspokenly liberal.

That said, a lot of Japanese men believe in old preconceived notions about genders and say this shit like its matter of fact. Wouldn't surprise me if Miyazaki believed some stupid shit, but I won't pin something he didn't say on him (though he didn't correct him).
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Yeaa. disagree but fine. He said "it depends on what kind of films we make", not that they wouldn't hire women directors. I don't disagree it's dumb, but Ghibli's employed two directors for how long? He's saying in some weirdly translated way they have intention behind who they choose as directors. If you watch the Kingdom of Madness, there's an odd level of personable-ness to how they attach a director to a project, and they love to give a pr speech about why this director connects to this material.

It's obviously a strange mindset, I just don't think it comes from an attempt to keep women down. More just an outdated concept of gender difference. Ghibli has been known for being progressive-minded, feminist themes, and even set up the studio to cater towards the female employees having nicer bathrooms and what not, which hilariously contradicts gender equality.


I made no critique of Ghibli and his comments are outlandish and backwards. I've worked with many Japanese directors artists and producers and they would all think his statement is ludicrous and embarrassing.

I don't know if you're an expert, but I am. It's about honor and shame.
 

Randomizer

Member
Miyazaki is grouchy but by no means conservative. He's pretty outspokenly liberal.

That said, a lot of Japanese men believe in old preconceived notions about genders and say this shit like its matter of fact. Wouldn't surprise me if Miyazaki believed some stupid shit, but I won't pin something he didn't say on him (though he didn't correct him).

Yep, just like when Fumito Ueda said that a young girl couldn't be the protagonist of The Last Guardian because girls aren't strong enough. He was totally confused by the backlash from westerns, was a total culture shock for him.
 
Wise words for any young and talented schoolgirl artists who are foolish enough to dream of becoming animators or directors. Better put down those brushes and pick up those frying pans.
 
Well, we have to remember that Japan is still in this mindset where housewife culture is still a thing. Not only that, females in Japan actually prefer being housewives to be able to take care of children all the time.

Though that doesn't mean a studio should assume that for every woman. I don't think they should pick a woman to be director because she's a woman. They should pick anyone who is qualified, and if it's a woman, then it should be no problem.

Agree
 

Wereroku

Member
This is that special brand of sexism that reminds me of Ueda's comments about the genders of the composers for Ico and Shadow of the Colossus.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=23624633

That's a weird statement SOTC is a favorite of several of my female friends I don't see it as particularly gendered in any way. It's basically a cursed love story which usually has a higher female audience when it comes to movies. ICO seems to be one that would be more male oriented if anything since it focuses solely on guiding a defenseless woman to safety.
 

Moonlight

Banned
Really disappointing comments.

Well, we have to remember that Japan is still in this mindset where housewife culture is still a thing. Not only that, females in Japan actually prefer being housewives to be able to take care of children all the time.
That's why Japan doesn't have any problem at all with child-rearing or childbirth in general, right?

Preexisting cultural expectations that aren't realistic or tenable for modern living exist in Japan, not some mindset where women just 'prefer' to be domestic.
 

Dice//

Banned
Well, we have to remember that Japan is still in this mindset where housewife culture is still a thing. Not only that, females in Japan actually prefer being housewives to be able to take care of children all the time.

I've heard from a friend that the daytime streets are basically just women/children (and men gone at work).

Though that doesn't mean a studio should assume that for every woman. I don't think they should pick a woman to be director because she's a woman. They should pick anyone who is qualified, and if it's a woman, then it should be no problem.

Glass ceiling, bro. Especially if a housewife culture is perpetuated, it's hard to rise above if your gender isn't really "seen fit" for it.
 

Wereroku

Member
I've heard from a friend that the daytime streets are basically just women/children (and men working).

Glass ceiling, bro. Especially if a housewife culture is perpetuated, it's hard to rise above if your gender isn't really "seen fit" for it.

The US is only now starting to get slightly better women still get passed over regularly because of the belief that they won't work long hours and because they will take time off to start a family.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Re: Housewives

The problem isn't that Japanese women don't want to work. It's the false dichotomy that they have to either choose work or being a mother, can't do both or you'll be looked at like you're selfish or skirting responsibilities as a woman.

Institutional sexism runs deep here and its not like it's generational. This kind of bs is parroted by the media all the damn time and no one bats an eye. Kids shows too.

Japan is way behind the west here, and it's not like its changing at all.
 

Kite

Member
lol Ironically the studio with studio with several major women directors and employs more female staff then male is..

Kyoto Animation, the moe-bait studio~
 

Xe4

Banned
That viewpoint is a damn shame and a huge insult to the women animators, writers, and directors in the industry.

I'd also like to point out the first ever full length animated film that is still viewable today was made by a woman (The Adventures of Prince Achmed by Lotte Reiniger). They have been a crucial part to the industry since it's inception and still of huge importance to it now. Yet, still there are those that think women cannot direct animated movies. Absolutely rediculous.
 

ISOM

Member
With all the female manga artist there are in Japan's history, this type of comment is so fucking weird and out there. It's as if he doesn't know that there have been some amazing works already created by Japanese women.
 
lol Ironically the studio with studio with several major women directors and employs more female artists then male is..

Kyoto Animation, the moe-bait studio~

Kyoto Animation indeed has a very female-friendly culture. (Although it's worth noting here that Hiroko Utsumi has left KyoAni and gone freelance; she was an animation director on the most recent Yu-Gi-Oh film.) Even more broadly speaking, I saw a recent industry report stating that at present more female animators are entering the industry than male animators.
 
What a very middle of the road Japanese man thing to say. Not surprised.

I've heard from a friend that the daytime streets are basically just women/children (and men gone at work).

Can 100% confirm that. When I take days off to travel or go shopping in the middle of the day its basically 80-95% women walking around. Most of the men are walking around because of work, but just out and about during the day is basically all women, young kids, or older folks retired.

Like others said it's more or less instilled in peoples head to be a housewife or a career women, no both. Hell some companies outright make that happen with things like not promoting women in the workplace because "you could get pregnant at any moment" or married, then you will "want time to take care of your kids" and bs like that. Some got better about it over the years/sued into doing so. Even when dating here I come across those ladies. They are just biding their time til a guy slaps a ring on it and they just take care of the house/kids, and some guys are looking for that lady too...

One of the ladies I work with though is pretty cool, she took 3 years off work to raise her son then came back to work just fine so it's not a guarantee even though many think so.
 
Sounds like its just a weird theory on the genders, that men make fantasy films and women can make realistic Takahata-like films.

That's exactly what it is in reality. But in this thread? The director sounds like a stupid, sexist MRA, and we should all be worried about the future of Studio Ghibli.

It's not like this guy directed When Marnie Was There or anything, not like that was an elegantly written, completey female-centric film or anything. He has misconceived ideas about men and women's strengths (notice how his comment wasn't focused on weaknesses), so wow, fuck him.

It seems like a very foreign, culturally influenced statement taken as a whole.

It absolutely is, and unfortunately Ghibli's isolation from the anime-manga industry only helps studio creatives like Nishimura hold on to such misguided notions. I don't think there's any shortage of female mangaka writing in the fantasy genre. I mean, can you imagine how cool a Ghibli film directed by Rumiko Takahashi (Inuyasha) or Hiromu Arakawa (Fullmetal Alchemist) might be?
 

zoozilla

Member
What a weird thing to say, especially from the producer of When Marnie Was There, a movie directed by a man about the friendship between two girls based on a book written by a woman.

Like...what?
 
That's exactly what it is in reality. But in this thread? The director sounds like a stupid, sexist MRA, and we should all be worried about the future of Studio Ghibli.

It's not like this guy directed When Marnie Was There or anything, not like that wasn't an elgantly written, completey female-centric film of anything. He has a misconception of men and women's strengths (notice how his comment wasn't focused on weaknesses), wow, fuck him.

Reread the article, and note that the statement commenting on men and women as anime directors was said by producer Yoshiaki Nishimura, not director Hiromasa Yonebayashi.

It absolutely is, and unfortunately Ghibli's isolation from the anime-manga industry only helps studio creatives like Nishimura hold on to such misguided notions. I don't think there's any shortage of female mangaka writing in the fantasy genre. I mean, can you imagine how cool a Ghibli film directed by Rumiko Takahashi (Inuyasha) or Hiromu Arakawa (Fullmetal Alchemist) might be?

I wouldn't expect that to be cool at all, since they are not directors! There are plenty of active female anime directors, though, as I posted earlier.
 

WaterAstro

Member
Glass ceiling, bro. Especially if a housewife culture is perpetuated, it's hard to rise above if your gender isn't really "seen fit" for it.

Not really my point. If you make a unqualified woman a director, and she messes up, it's going to further establish the male dominance mindset.

If you're going to pick a director, or a leader, you don't pick it based on gender because that's sexist regardless if you pick a female or male. You pick purely based on skills, which makes the decision equal for both genders.
 

chiimisu

Member
Japan could make its drawn girls as strong and independent as it's possible but they don't care about real women much, it seems. I think that's a big problem.
 
Reread the article, and note that the statement commenting on men and women as anime directors was said by producer Yoshiaki Nishimura, not director Hiromasa Yonebayashi.

Ah, you're right. Sorry. :p

I wouldn't expect that to be cool at all, since they are not directors! There are plenty of active female anime directors, though, as I posted earlier.

But most animation directors either start out as writers or artists, and two women I mentioned are both. That doesn't guarantee that either would be successful in their directorial debut, but given their track records I wouldn't doubt they could make the transition.


Yet, still there are those that think women cannot direct animated movies. Absolutely rediculous.

I hope you don't think that's what he said. He drew a distinction between the kinds of films men and women excel at, but did not say that women cannot direct animated movies.
 

Clov

Member
I wouldn't expect that to be cool at all, since they are not directors! There are plenty of active female anime directors, though, as I posted earlier.

So cool, that I'm going to quote them for this page so others can take a look:

Plenty, and more all the time. Some notable ones:

Naoko Yamada (K-ON, Tamako Market, Sound Euphonium, A Silent Voice)
Noriko Takao (Saint Young Men, Idolmaster Cinderella Girls)
Hiromi Taniguchi (Kurage no Shokudou)
Hiroko Utsumi (Free)
Kotomi Deai (Silver Spoon, Rolling Girls, Natsume's Book of Friends S5)
Mitsue Yamazaki (Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun, Hakkenden)
Shouko Nakamura (Doukyusei)
Atsuko Ishizuka (Prince of Stride Alternative, Hanayamata)
Sayo Yamamoto (Michiko and Hatchin, Yuri on Ice)

While these aren't Ghibli titles that pick up wide-scale international recognition, there are a lot of great shows and films mixed in here! They're doing some wonderful work.

Such a backwards comment from Nishimura though. I'm disappointed.
 
Though that doesn't mean a studio should assume that for every woman. I don't think they should pick a woman to be director because she's a woman. They should pick anyone who is qualified, and if it's a woman, then it should be no problem.

The problem with this viewpoint is that even if you go in with the best of intentions and a willingness to be genderblind/colorblind in selection, the very fact that there's no change in hiring or recruitment procedure will ensure that the vast majority of applicants will be of the same gender/race already in the industry. The only proven way to increase diversity is to purposefully seek out talent from a diverse applicant pool and then select the best from that pool.

For example, when my university wanted to increase diversity but maintain high standards, the only way to accomplish both in a short period of time was to specifically target all the best and brightest of poorly represented groups of people during recruitment. And as a result, the pool of minorities to choose from were stacked with qualified individuals, whereas before, there might be a very small pool of minorities who applied with only a few qualified individuals.

Basically, if they were to wait around for one female applicant per hiring phase, it's a total crapshoot on how qualified she'll be. If they seek out a hundred qualified women and invite them all to apply, they have a hundred qualified people to pick from.
 
Since Kyoto Animation was already brought up, it's worth quoting an excerpt from this interview about Sound Euphonium for a different perspective on female directors in the Japanese animation industry.

Ishihara: For this work, the “female point of view” from our women directors was immensely strong.
Oguro: Was that in the visual aspect? Or perhaps in the dramatic aspect?
Ishihara: The visual aspect. There’s lots of things that we call “manly” or “feminine” that women dislike, but women are better at character relationships and how to treat characters’ mental states. At least the impression that they’re more fixated on it exists. Men would put more effort into cool camera work but I get the feeling that women would treat the character connections and relationships as more important. So it’s there that we could rely on them.
Oguro: So in dedicating how to frame the characters and how to compose the image as a whole, right?
Ishihara: Those kinds of things. And also we relied on them when it came to rotating around dialogue too. Our sound director also relied on Yamada too. During our recording sessions, Yamada would read the script and be asked “does this sound adolescent to you?” She would change the dialogue at those parts that didn’t sound like something a high school girl would say. Our sound director was fixated on “high school girl reality” this time, but well, to make it short, “I’m not sure high school girls would sound that logical.” (laughs) At the scenario stage, we wrote lines that would go in logical order, but high school girls wouldn’t have the entire conversation be that thoughtout, would they? There’d be some parts where a logical connection wouldn’t exist in the entire conversation. And so we consulted Yamada for the “does this part feel that way?” portions.
The easiest example I can give would be episode 9. Hazuki, who had just been rejected, is talking with Kumiko on the train and their conversation has logically progressing dialogue, but there’s some strange portions when it’s written down. I also thought “Huh? Is this alright?” when I read it; like in the part where Hazuki goes “Sorry for inviting Shuichi”, “You don’t have to say that” “I do.” I thought it was really odd, but it probably ties together the whole conversation.
Oguro: So Yamada-san would be the judge for those kinds of exchanges?
Yamada: I wouldn’t put it as cool as that…. But that reminds me, she mildly rebuked Hazuki there. (laughs)
Oguro: Please tell me how she rebuked her.
Yamada: (laughs) Ishihara-san has talked with me about “nonsensical conversations” since K-On!. But I had some worries over how the kind of nonsensical, wandering conversations that high school girls have would be received by the audience, so I thought to have some mild rebukes in there. (laughs)
Oguro: I see.
Yamada: Even if the information that you want to put in is present, that doesn’t mean that you can create a conversation that doesn’t go according to reason. I made sure to make these conversations have a certain reasoning to them even if they didn’t proceed logically….
Ishihara: Right, right, that kind of thing.
Yamada: Hey! (laughs)
Ishihara: I didn’t think they fit properly.
Yamada: Oh… So my planning was like accessories for them. (laughs)
 

duckroll

Member
This is that special brand of sexism that reminds me of Ueda's comments about the genders of the composers for Ico and Shadow of the Colossus.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=23624633

Have you considered that maybe your womanly genes make you too practical to have the idealistic view necessary to appreciate the bold creative expressions of these talented gentlemen? Maybe you should focus on the day-to-day tasks at hand, and leave us men to debate important issues like the gold standard.
 
The contrast between this stereotype vs. American or European gender stereotypes is interesting to me. Personally, I think that if American or European men were going to stereotype women, they'd stereotype them as being more idealistic, dreamers, where as men would be stereotyped as the "Day to day realistic manager" or whatever the person says.

Obviously it's just a bull shit excuse, but I find the contrast between the stereotypes interesting.
 
it doesn't feel like the first time i've read shit like that from japan executives, didn't some SE people say similar things in regards to some topics, like FFXV? or something?

This is absolutely embarrasing.
 
Japan strikes me as having weirdly sexist views on women.

Fumito Ueda and the producer of Studio Ghibli's comments are misguided and sexist, but I also don't feel any malice in their comments. I feel that they might be ultimately good people that grew up influenced by sexist views.

Something such as a pop singer shaving her head for having a boyfriend is not only sexist, but also an act of malice.
 
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