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Summer 2012 Anime |OT2| Of Suspended Anime Due To Olympics

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C

cajunator

Banned
Mad Pierrot said:
AnimeGAF was my last stop on the internet before deciding to give up attempting to discuss anime with other people forever. After several years of joining and leaving various anime forums due to having nothing in common with other members, I'm fairly certain that "mostly populated by 12 year olds" applies to all other places for anime discussion on the internet.
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No, as I said before, Sekai no Hajimari is made up of diehard Haibane Renmei fans, most of whom are 20+ years old. Very mature discussions, despite having threads about recent otaku shows and even an in depth MLP:FIM thread. but it doesnt have a whole lot of arguing or anything. thats pretty much the only other anime forum I go to besides this one. you guys complete me and I love you.
 
D

duckroll

Member
hosannainexcelsis said:
Genre-segregated lists would be very helpful and doable, but the more technical categories, as interesting as they would be, strike me as something that would be difficult to get a substantial number of people who have thought about them and would interested in voting on them. Not to mention it would be challenging to pull together a summary list from whatever the results end up being. "Best Animation in Action Sequence", for instance: there's a lot of possible responses and I'm not sure if a short list consensus could be formed.
Click to expand...

I guess I have to put my pet idea back into my pocket again. I'm fully aware that such categories are unrealistic for a forum voting process, especially when most of it isn't really of much interest to a larger audience anyway.

If we just go through with actual genre categories, does anyone have further ideas on how to make such a voting process more informed and interesting? How should the process go, how do we divide the winners and count votes, how do we make it as easy as possible for voters without making it something people have to post 20 titles for, etc?
 
M

madp

The Light of El Cantare
cajunator said:
No, as I said before, Sekai no Hajimari is made up of diehard Haibane Renmei fans, most of whom are 20+ years old. Very mature discussions, despite having threads about recent otaku shows and even an in depth MLP:FIM thread. but it doesnt have a whole lot of arguing or anything. thats pretty much the only other anime forum I go to besides this one. you guys complete me and I love you.
Click to expand...

Should have said "almost all". I'm sure that there are small, very specialized forums that are okay.

cajunator said:
According to GAF, I'm a pedo, a Nintard, a sub -human right winger, a resident of the worst Us state, a bigot, a racist, a religious nut, and wrong about everything.
Hell of a track record.
Click to expand...

GAF is largely a really toxic place for discussion. It's a minor miracle that it's home to the best anime community on the internet, which ironically is also a leper colony on its own forum. As long as all of the insecure wannabe-alpha nerds continue to let us squat on their land, I won't complain.
 
A

amishpriest99

Member
Dresden said:
It's a tired theme that's largely become archetyped like save-the-princess or find-the-macguffin. But then SF as a whole is a tired genre, so w/e.
Click to expand...

I suppose it's all in how the theme is used...at least in SF anime I can't think of any particularly bad examples, but then again I haven't seen that much of the subgenre.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Dresden said:
Hey, it was mainly pulp semi-racist operas back in the day, man. Hard didn't come into vogue until the days leading up to the moon landing.
Click to expand...
I guess that's true. :p
Honestly, I'm just glad we're done with cyberpunk. (Fuck you Deus Ex. lol)

Dresden said:
After about a decade of obsessing over it, that's my opinion on it--not enough works of note being published, not enough innovation, just tired schticks and esotericisms being recycled in lieu of actual ideas. Or just tech-wanking.

At least fantasy (the non-ASOIAF/Wheel of Time kind) has men and women willing to push the buttons.
Click to expand...
Button pushing being a metaphor for pegging?

Ultimadrago said:
A tired face means too much smiling.

Ergo, dresden smiles too much!
Click to expand...
People who prefer Fantasy over Science Fiction aren't allowed to smile. :(

Ultimadrago said:
I wouldn't identify the exchange as arguing to begin with. My response to jman2050 held no deliberate contentions. I stated an ironic observation that related to what I responded to. Critical debate regarding Nichijou is not something that I have never witnessed set up in the thread (comments from yesterday notwithstanding). In other words, I don't believe I "shut down" any discourse because it didn't exist (at least, not in an argumentative manner). I read nothing to engage on a level that would lead to any noteworthy debate.
The quotation marks around "haters" was simply because of its informal context over the Internet in regards to those that dislike it to a high degree. For example, an average teacher typing to a student, "Billy, you're pretty 'cool' yourself!" I made sure to state "avid" in order to not group everyone in the thread that isn't fond of Nichijou. I don't believe listing usernames is necessary as any regulars here probably know the gist. Also, I wouldn't say I labeled them as liars. However, I have never read any posts of their usual nature leading to worthy discussion about the elements of the anime. "Lol Nichibomba" is the breach of quality most of those posts I've read here can muster. In the end, an ironic observation on a select group of people and a select list of comedy anime. Finally, on the comment being aggressive, I see no wrong in that. Nichijou gets a passive-aggressive or aggressive post here from any given detractor (same pool of people) every week (different days). There are times my responses are in kind. This all isn't to say my approach in the post in question was optimal for healthy thread behavior.
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People aren't interested in having the discussion, they're just meme-ing at each other. lol
I assume all the sports threads have dumb Tebow or Linsanity memes or whatever it is sports people like to talk about when they're talking about how hunky skilled their favourite sports-players are.

Reknoc said:
\o/

That reminds me; I was going to screenshot that section and be all "Arino > Chihaya" but I ended up watching Arino be terrible at Super Mario World instead and forgot about it.

It was probably for the best I forgot.
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Indeed. lol

hosannainexcelsis said:
AnimeGAF as a comedy routine, where people become caricatures of themselves and repeat canned punchlines, may have been something I was interested in at one time due to novelty but I don't find it particularly interesting now.
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I'll say that it's gotten more like that in recent years. I don't mind anyway, but that's just how things go.

I'm just glad I got to talk about anorexia for a few posts last week. It's better than nothing. lol
 
M

madp

The Light of El Cantare
duckroll said:
I guess I have to put my pet idea back into my pocket again. I'm fully aware that such categories are unrealistic for a forum voting process, especially when most of it isn't really of much interest to a larger audience anyway.

If we just go through with actual genre categories, does anyone have further ideas on how to make such a voting process more informed and interesting? How should the process go, how do we divide the winners and count votes, how do we make it as easy as possible for voters without making it something people have to post 20 titles for, etc?
Click to expand...

Why don't we just limit the entire poll to AnimeGAF and go through with the more specialized categories? We can just PM you our finished ballots or whatever.
 
Ultimadrago

Ultimadrago

Member
BGBW said:
Now I'm worried that I am seen as a caricature of myself whatever that caricature may be.
Click to expand...

Avatar visualization: Cockney Akarin.

On that note, though you like to flaunt that you're British a bunch (nothing wrong with national pride), I don't see you as a "cartoon"
except when you're on Gaming Side!

jk

maybe
 
C

Crash Station

Member
duckroll said:
I guess I have to put my pet idea back into my pocket again. I'm fully aware that such categories are unrealistic for a forum voting process, especially when most of it isn't really of much interest to a larger audience anyway.

If we just go through with actual genre categories, does anyone have further ideas on how to make such a voting process more informed and interesting? How should the process go, how do we divide the winners and count votes, how do we make it as easy as possible for voters without making it something people have to post 20 titles for, etc?
Click to expand...

I would think voting on categories would be too complicated. It would be better to just separate them into categories for the results like the GOTY awards. Of course that also means you can't do stuff like best art direction or whatever, but I don't know if that's a good idea in the first place.
 
L

LegatoB

Member
duckroll said:
I guess I have to put my pet idea back into my pocket again. I'm fully aware that such categories are unrealistic for a forum voting process, especially when most of it isn't really of much interest to a larger audience anyway.

If we just go through with actual genre categories, does anyone have further ideas on how to make such a voting process more informed and interesting? How should the process go, how do we divide the winners and count votes, how do we make it as easy as possible for voters without making it something people have to post 20 titles for, etc?
Click to expand...

1) Have an informal poll to decide the genres you're going to have votes for.

1.5) Fight about what genre(s) certain popular series fall into. This is optional and really just for the amusement of the thread.

2) Take that list of genres you've decided on and ask dudes to name their 2-3 Top Picks in that genre, using whatever criteria they like. We don't actually care about WHY they think K-on! is the best Sitcom, just that they think it is. If you really wanna be a cool dude you could let people weight their choices or something but that's a lot of work so you should skip that.

3) Post the results and let everyone fight over how M'dokes is totally not the best Magical Girl Show of 2011, you son of a bitch.

If 2) requires too much actual effort on the part of the voters, remembering the full title of a show they liked or whatever, use the optional preliminary genre bitching round to determine frontrunners and just provide a list of nominees.
 
D

Dedication Through Light

Member
Naruto SD 21
tumblr_m94cdz3yXP1qbxqfpo1_500.png

Pokemon ref?

Was alright for ghosts and ghosts stories and 2nd skit ending spoiler
Sarutobi sensei, but no speaking roles :(
 
Joe Molotov

Joe Molotov

Member
duckroll said:
I'm less interested in just a single "Anime of the Forever" thing, but very interested in whether we have a large enough anime community here who can actually vote on specific categories which would be helpful to people looking for certain types of material.

Best Drama
Best Action
Best Comedy
Best Science Fiction
Best Fantasy
etc

It would also be interesting to have stuff like Best Art Direction, Best Animation in Action Sequence, Best Character Animation, etc. I dunno how much interest there is though. It would be quite a lot of effort to set up and explain in a detailed way to users...
Click to expand...

Best Sci-Fi Yuri
Best High School Yuri
Best Sci-Fi High School Yuri
 
D

Dresden

Member
BGBW said:
Now I'm worried that I am seen as a caricature of myself whatever that caricature may be.
Click to expand...
it's okay, it only burns the first week. Then you stop feeling anything. :(
firehawk12 said:
I guess that's true. :p
Honestly, I'm just glad we're done with cyberpunk. (Fuck you Deus Ex. lol)

Button pushing being a metaphor for pegging?
Click to expand...
Not pegging, but sounding might work.

Unless you really love the sort of shipbound military SF that's so perpetually popular, SF just has no real attraction for me outside of a few outliers that I probably won't ever get to read. Meanwhile fantasy at least has authors willing to tackle subjects that the larger community isn't so keen to accept--admittedly it's still stuck in the women writing about women phase, as the straight men resist heroically in the face of all the oppressive feminism.*

*so basically nerds being nerds

cosmicblizzard said:
I would think voting on categories would be too complicated. It would be better to just separate them into categories for the results like the GOTY awards. Of course that also means you can't do stuff like best art direction or whatever, but I don't know if that's a good idea in the first place.
Click to expand...
I've never seen the value of the more specialized categories, because chances are, I'm more interested in the personal opinions of a few people rather than the whole regarding that subject.
 
Jex

Jex

Member
hosannainexcelsis said:
Is science fiction really more tired than any other genre of fiction?
Click to expand...

It depends how many sci-fi books you read!

In anime, at least, sci-fi isn't particularly tired because so few sci-fi anime are made. Apart from Mardock Scramble, a.k.a Ghost in the Shell for a new generation.
 
D

duckroll

Member
cosmicblizzard said:
I would think voting on categories would be too complicated. It would be better to just separate them into categories for the results like the GOTY awards. Of course that also means you can't do stuff like best art direction or whatever, but I don't know if that's a good idea in the first place.
Click to expand...

The problem with this entire idea to begin with, is that there is no limitation of voting range. This means the problem of under-representation becomes overwhelming for a lot of genres.

Let's take GOTY for example. If in a given year, there are more good shooters released than any other genre, then most of the people voting will be filling their vote slots with shooters since it is a popular genre and it there is a large representation of quality in that year. So let's say in that year, there are a few RTS games released as well. If everyone were to vote on the best RTS game for that year, those who actually play RTS games might have voted Game X. But since it isn't, and they also play many other genres, there are no RTS games represented by most of these voters. Instead, one crazy guy might decide to vote Game Y as his first choice, which is another RTS game but a pretty awful one. In the end, the only game in the RTS category would then be Game Y, even if had the vote been presented differently, other games would be there and it would be more accurate.

Now that only covers a single year, and it is already a problem. For anime we would be covering several decades. This means that based on the past taste of GAF voting in general, the top 10 lists will probably be filled with "classics" as it is. There is pretty much no chance for there to be a decently accurate representation of genre categories because of how slated the statistics will be.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Dresden said:
Not pegging, but sounding might work.

Unless you really love the sort of shipbound military SF that's so perpetually popular, SF just has no real attraction for me outside of a few outliers that I probably won't ever get to read. Meanwhile fantasy at least has authors willing to tackle subjects that the larger community isn't so keen to accept--admittedly it's still stuck in the women writing about women phase, as the straight men resist heroically in the face of all the oppressive feminism.
Click to expand...

SF can be anything though. Warehouse 13 and Eureka, as dumb as they can be, are as far away as you can get from the type of SF that you're talking about.

I'll be honest, I haven't read an SF book in the last 5 years that wasn't written by Stephenson, so I have no idea what's out there, but even in the early 2000s, there were lots of people who were writing work that is spans an entire range of sub-genres.

I'm sure you'll say otherwise, but Fantasy seems to be the thing that's stuck in either two modes: horror fantasy porn or european fantasy porn.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
You're forgetting Urban Fantasy, although that's basically modern day european horror porn.
 
Jex

Jex

Member
hosannainexcelsis said:
First, I wouldn't say that I "almost bailed"; despite my irritation I was not intending to exit the thread on a longer-term basis as I did earlier this summer.

Second, as you might imagine, it was not Ultimadrago's post alone which raised my ire but a combination of several posts on that page; his post was what I was intending to respond to specifically until I decided to forget about it.

Third, it was not the subject of the post that I took issue with (I am a fan of Nichijou, after all); rather, its manner. "Your argument is invalid because you like something I don't" is one of the lowest kinds of argumentation, a way of deflecting criticism without engaging it and turning discussions into wars between different camps of fanboys. (There was a similar post nearby about Hyouka and Kids on the Slope.) I also had a problem with the aggressive tone of the post, particularly the use of ironic quotation marks around "haters", as if to say that anyone who said they didn't like Nichijou was being disingenuous about their opinions. There's nothing that shuts down a discussion faster than claiming that the opposing party must be lying.

Junk about boobs and "waifu" arguments - while I'm not fond of them, they're filler nonsense that's relatively easy to ignore. When basic civility and rational, reasoned discourse gets thrown out, however, that is not so easy to ignore. Perhaps I am asking too much of the Internet, and I know there are far worse places in that regard than here, but it's frustrating when I know that many people here are capable of better things. I would certainly like to help create an atmosphere here that encourages constructive discussion as opposed to one which encourages us to tear each other down.
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Ultimadrago said:
I wouldn't identify the exchange as arguing to begin with. My response to jman2050 held no formal contentions. I stated an ironic observation that related to what I responded to. Critical debate regarding Nichijou is not something that I have never witnessed set up in the thread (comments from yesterday notwithstanding). In other words, I don't believe I "shut down" any discourse because it didn't exist (at least, not in an argumentative manner). I read nothing to engage on a level that would lead to any noteworthy debate.
The quotation marks around "haters" was simply because of its informal context over the Internet in regards to those that dislike it to a high degree. For example, an average teacher typing to a student, "Billy, you're pretty 'cool' yourself!" I made sure to state "avid" in order to not group everyone in the thread that isn't fond of Nichijou. I don't believe listing usernames is necessary as any regulars here probably know the gist. Also, I wouldn't say I labeled them as liars. However, I have never read any posts of their usual nature leading to worthy discussion about the elements of the anime. "Lol Nichibomba" is the brink of quality most of those post types I've read here can muster. In the end, an ironic observation on a select group of people and a select list of comedy anime. Finally, on the comment being aggressive, I see no wrong in that. Nichijou gets a passive-aggressive or aggressive post here from any given detractor (same pool of people) every week (different days). There are times my responses are in kind. This all isn't to say my approach in the post in question was optimal for healthy thread behavior.
Click to expand...

I secretly wish every post in the thread was about this long and packed with as much thought. Although I would prefer a couple of paragraphs here and there to break up the text.

I'd like to be able to write posts of this length or above but I am no longer a Student or Unemployed so I don't really have the time to craft posts of the same length or breadth that I once could. Spending thirty minutes to create a review of a single episode of a particular show is no longer feasible.

On the subject of the post your originally made with sparked this whole discussion; it's not hard to see why your original comments might have drawn that reaction. It's really hard to discern tone on the internet, especially when a post is relatively short and when it's located in the context of other posts that might actually be extremely dismissive and/or critical of other people and their opinions about anime. "You dislike this, therefore you opinion is invalid" is a fairly common argument on the internet, after all.
 
Ultimadrago

Ultimadrago

Member
amishpriest99 said:
Glad you didn't completely bail, hosannainexcelsis. I really do like reading your posts and insights. I'm not very good at articulating why I like or dislike anything, so it's helpful to see how you and the others here go about it.
Click to expand...

I hold similar sentiments. I would never want hosanna to see leave the thread (especially knowing a post of mine added firewood to his aggravations with it).
I enjoy his contributions. "Real talk."
 
D

Dresden

Member
firehawk12 said:
SF can be anything though. Warehouse 13 and Eureka, as dumb as they can be, are as far away as you can get from the type of SF that you're talking about.

I'll be honest, I haven't read an SF book in the last 5 years that wasn't written by Stephenson, so I have no idea what's out there, but even in the early 2000s, there were lots of people who were writing work that is spans an entire range of sub-genres.

I'm sure you'll say otherwise, but Fantasy seems to be the thing that's stuck in either two modes: horror fantasy porn or european fantasy porn.
Click to expand...
I don't watch TV sf tho.

I just cited the milsf stuff because it's so prominent--sort of like how you mention eurohorror fantasy pornos later on. There's still fun stories being told, but they're usually so packed with the usual sf tropes in part because the audience demands it.

And yeah, otherwise ofc. what else would I say?
Haly said:
You're forgetting Urban Fantasy, although that's basically modern day european horror porn.
Click to expand...
technically everything is fantasy, because science fiction isn't even about science anymore!
 
H

hosannainexcelsis

Member
Ultimadrago said:
I wouldn't identify the exchange as arguing to begin with. My response to jman2050 held no formal contentions. I stated an ironic observation that related to what I responded to. Critical debate regarding Nichijou is not something that I have never witnessed set up in the thread (comments from yesterday notwithstanding). In other words, I don't believe I "shut down" any discourse because it didn't exist (at least, not in an argumentative manner). I read nothing to engage on a level that would lead to any noteworthy debate.
The quotation marks around "haters" was simply because of its informal context over the Internet in regards to those that dislike it to a high degree. For example, an average teacher typing to a student, "Billy, you're pretty 'cool' yourself!" I made sure to state "avid" in order to not group everyone in the thread that isn't fond of Nichijou. I don't believe listing usernames is necessary as any regulars here probably know the gist. Also, I wouldn't say I labeled them as liars. However, I have never read any posts of their usual nature leading to worthy discussion about the elements of the anime. "Lol Nichibomba" is the brink of quality most of those post types I've read here can muster. In the end, an ironic observation on a select group of people and a select list of comedy anime. Finally, on the comment being aggressive, I see no wrong in that. Nichijou gets a passive-aggressive or aggressive post here from any given detractor (same pool of people) every week (different days). There are times my responses are in kind. This all isn't to say my approach in the post in question was optimal for healthy thread behavior.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I don't have time to respond to this in length, so I'll just reiterate that your post was not the only, or even the primary, cause of my outburst, simply the one unlucky enough to be singled out. I agree that there was no meaningful discussion about Nichijou going on, and I understand how easy it is join in the general shallowness, but I feel that's only digging a deeper hole for ourselves. I do think you can be quite the thoughtful and sensible poster.

Dresden said:
After about a decade of obsessing over it, that's my opinion on it--not enough works of note being published, not enough innovation, just tired schticks and esotericisms being recycled in lieu of actual ideas. Or just tech-wanking.

At least fantasy (the non-ASOIAF/Wheel of Time kind) has men and women willing to push the buttons.
Click to expand...

I'm no expert in this field, so I'll bow to your opinion.

cajunator said:
No, as I said before, Sekai no Hajimari is made up of diehard Haibane Renmei fans, most of whom are 20+ years old. Very mature discussions, despite having threads about recent otaku shows and even an in depth MLP:FIM thread. but it doesnt have a whole lot of arguing or anything. thats pretty much the only other anime forum I go to besides this one. you guys complete me and I love you.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, I recall running across this forum years ago. The few people who post there do seem reasonable; the problem is that the board is not very active.

Branduil said:
There's even a Disney movie for children about the concept!

It's pretty good.
Click to expand...

Oh, which is this?

Dresden said:
I've never seen the value of the more specialized categories, because chances are, I'm more interested in the personal opinions of a few people rather than the whole regarding that subject.
Click to expand...

I agree here. My advice to duckroll on this matter would be to draw up a list of specialized categories and send them to specific people who he knows would be interested for them to draw up responses; that would yield more fruitful results than an open forum vote.

icarus-daedelus said:
I think I personally gave up on painstakingly attempting to discuss/divulge my own, oftentimes contrarian, opinions in a very detailed manner a long time ago, when all I'd get in response would be a dismissive or disbelieving gif. So I suppose I'd still place a whole line of text as being above that in terms of effort.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's definitely a frustrating experience. I'll try harder to meaningfully engage with the detailed criticism and opinions that do get posted here, because I'd certainly like to see more of it.
 
Ultimadrago

Ultimadrago

Member
Jexhius said:
On the subject of the post your originally made with sparked this whole discussion; it's not hard to see why your original comments might have drawn that reaction. It's really hard to discern tone on the internet, especially when a post is relatively short and when it's located in the context of other posts that might actually be extremely dismissive and/or critical of other people and their opinions about anime. "You dislike this, therefore you opinion is invalid" is a fairly common argument on the internet, after all.
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand where that is coming from.
It was not my intention to seriously go about something along those lines of that as a point for Nichijou.


hosannainexcelsis said:
Unfortunately I don't have time to respond to this in length, so I'll just reiterate that your post was not the only, or even the primary, cause of my outburst, simply the one unlucky enough to be singled out. I agree that there was no meaningful discussion about Nichijou going on, and I understand how easy it is join in the general shallowness, but I feel that's only digging a deeper hole for ourselves. I do think you can be quite the thoughtful and sensible poster.
Click to expand...

Understood. I'll keep that in mind.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Dresden said:
I don't watch TV sf tho.

I just cited the milsf stuff because it's so prominent--sort of like how you mention eurohorror fantasy pornos later on. There's still fun stories being told, but they're usually so packed with the usual sf tropes in part because the audience demands it.

And yeah, otherwise ofc. what else would I say?
Click to expand...
MilSF is its own sub-genre though. I'm pretty sure Elizabeth Moon/David Weber/whoever is doing that stuff nowadays isn't dominating the genre anyway. As far as I know, Baen Books hasn't taken over the industry. lol
 
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