• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Summer 2012 Anime |OT3| Where All the Waifus Are Made Up and the Points Don't Matter

Status
Not open for further replies.

jman2050

Member
I guess the argument boils down to whether you consider the mere act of editing to be a creative endeavor worth acknowledging. Because that's what 99% of the production of AMVs is.
 

Envelope

sealed with a kiss
I guess the argument boils down to whether you consider the mere act of editing to be a creative endeavor worth acknowledging. Because that's what 99% of the production of AMVs is.

Considering how important editing is to every form of media under the sun...
 

Narag

Member
Gintama 27

That was pretty hardcore. Gin accepting the job from the kid,
wearing on the demon mask in the arena, and wrecking that guy's shit
was the best.
 

Lain

Member
Muv-Luv Alternative: Total Eclipse 12

Episode was a bit too slow. When it was about to end I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe I would have to wait for yet another episode to see this situation really move forward.
Other than that though it was good. Yui is almost over her old hang-ups and hopefully she'll kick some asses in the future. She's also not over her
"bring complete misfortune onto others" (my thoughts are with you, corporal! You died an heroic death, just like you wished!)
which is her best trait.
 

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
[FMA:Brotherhood] - Finale

After all the events that have occurred throughout the Promised Day this concluding episode feels strangely perfunctory and underwhelming. So many loose ends were tied up that I began to grow weary with the events that were occurring. Do I really care about what happens to every single character in the show? No.
Lord of the Rings got so much mileage out of that. It's difficult to blame them when trying to ape that.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
This guy on the ANNcast said that AMVs are pretty much what Andy Warhol did. Because his paintings of soup cans were of existing work.

ibku2mCyk7DFke.gif
 
Qwaser of Stigmata II 2
BbdFd.png

Banana-chan approves!
Some sort of drama happening between the bishoujo and wheelchair moe girl. Now they know where the Magdalena of Thunder is or something. The tease at the beginning with the original girls makes me wish they had more of an importance this time. None of the new girls are as talented as them.
7immi.jpg

A Moe Blob draws near!
Command?
 
I will never comprehend the amount of tireless dedication needed to make this, the full scale Enterprise model, or the working 3D printer. Minecraft players must have nothing but time on their hands. Its kind of disturbing.
I think it's incredible. I don't think I could ever be that dedicated to anything.
 

OceanBlue

Member
Rather than being all ha ha funny gif about this, I think there's a valid point in there somewhere.

My understanding is that Warhol sketched a soup can then silkscreened and painted multiple copies of the same sketch. That's not a transformative/derivative work in the way that I normally think of it, but okay, for the sake of the argument we're taking "still life" sketching as derivative, taking an existing thing and making something new out of it. Perhaps even the soup can design itself is a piece of art in the first instance - Warhol was arguably making art out of art.

Now I'm not denying that your average Dragonball Linkin Park video is a bit bereft of creativity. But what about something like Ian Roberts's Arima Shinji-kun, which used the AMV format to compare Arima from KareKano and Shinji from Eva and added effects that mimicked Anno's directorial style even further than the footage already used? He's taken something artistic and made something else artistic out of that material - that's the very definition of a transformative work, if you choose to "believe" in the term.

Now obviously you can't say that the entirety of Warhol's body of work was derivative, unlike AMVs which will always rely on someone else's creativity first. But I still think, despite the plethora of shite out there, that you can't write off AMVs as an "artform". It's just a poorly developed one.

My problem with that comparison is that it disregards Warhol's place in the larger pop art movement and the ideas/concepts behind his work. An AMV and Warhol's work aren't nearly similar because of how Warhol (and other artists like Lichtenstein) reinterpret art and influence the thinking of their time. I don't really know much about this as most of my understanding about art is through self-research in my free time, but the difference between an AMV maker and Warhol in the context of the art in their time is pretty obvious to me.

It also ignores that Warhol was a prolific artist who also made movies and such, but whatever.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Rather than being all ha ha funny gif about this, I think there's a valid point in there somewhere.

My understanding is that Warhol sketched a soup can then silkscreened and painted multiple copies of the same sketch. That's not a transformative/derivative work in the way that I normally think of it, but okay, for the sake of the argument we're taking "still life" sketching as derivative, taking an existing thing and making something new out of it. Perhaps even the soup can design itself is a piece of art in the first instance - Warhol was arguably making art out of art.

Now I'm not denying that your average Dragonball Linkin Park video is a bit bereft of creativity. But what about something like Ian Roberts's Arima Shinji-kun, which used the AMV format to compare Arima from KareKano and Shinji from Eva and added effects that mimicked Anno's directorial style even further than the footage already used? He's taken something artistic and made something else artistic out of that material - that's the very definition of a transformative work, if you choose to "believe" in the term.

Now obviously you can't say that the entirety of Warhol's body of work was derivative, unlike AMVs which will always rely on someone else's creativity first. But I still think, despite the plethora of shite out there, that you can't write off AMVs as an "artform". It's just a poorly developed one.
Really I'm just going to continue to write off AMVs. Andy Warhol was a creative mind who brought forward new ideas that pushed the boundaries of what was expected of art at the time. It is impossible for me to think of a more absurd comparison than to mashup the work of others and point at one of the most influential modern artists and say "my stuff is like that."

Because it's not and I don't know why you feel the need to humor this idiot.
 
One Piece Movie 6: Baron Omatsuri and the Secret Island

I rewatched this film recently, and appreciated the craft on display even more than the first time. The planning and execution of the narrative arc from beginning to end is nothing short of masterful. There were three things in particular that I noticed this time that I wanted to comment on.

1. The layouts are consistently excellent, placing the characters in creative and meaningful positions in relation to each other and their environment. Of course, the designs themselves are attractively loose, making them not only ideal for animation but also ideal for making good looking poses. (It's a far contrast from the early episodes of the TV show, which are notable for goofy and unnatural contortions of the characters.)

Over the first hour, there's a gradual shift in how the characters are framed, matching the shift in their relations that's taking place. At first, their togetherness is emphasized:


Note how, even though these are reaction shots centered on one character, they include other Straw Hats in the background.

Later on, the shots instead emphasize their isolation:


Not only are the characters in these shots alone; they are also cut off from the outside world by environmental elements: Sanji by the pool wall and of course by being a mere reflection, and Usopp by the fire whose light sharply contrasts his shadow.

Although this process of separation occurs gradually, there is a sharp pivot point where the tone and look of the film irrevocably changes. Immediately after
Patch tells Luffy that Omatsuri separates friends
, we cut to a series of moody landscapes featuring Chopper wandering around an abandoned city:


Even though some cracks had been gradually showing, the tone of the film up to this point was essentially that of a light-hearted adventure. (So the silly sequence straight out of a silent film where Luffy is chasing Patch accompanied by honkytonk piano.) The loneliness that these images evoke, the darkness of the encroaching shadows seeking to swallow Chopper up - it's quite different from anything we've seen before and sets the stage for the rest of the film. It also initiates the move from a brighter to a darker color scheme that you can notice between the earlier pairs of images.

All of this shows the handiwork of someone fully in command of the visual language of film and how to deploy it for storytelling.

2. I had forgotten how much use of CG there was, most notably for the goldfish but also for things like the flower stem on the mountain and the buildings in the canal:


I won't say this looks great - the gray walls of the canal stand out particularly poorly - but I do think the colorful art design of the buildings keeps the CG from being too distracting.

3. The entire climax is played out mostly in silence. Lesser filmmakers would have felt the need to ramp up the volume and energy of the soundtrack to create drama, but Hosoda understands that sometimes the best way to maximize aural intensity is to cut out sound altogether. (Come to think of it, there's a pivotal scene at the climax of The Girl Who Leapt Through Time which relies on silence as well.) Bombastic music wouldn't convey
Luffy's utter despair and desperate rage
nearly as well.
 

BluWacky

Member
Really I'm just going to continue to write off AMVs. Andy Warhol was a creative mind who brought forward new ideas that pushed the boundaries of what was expected of art at the time. It is impossible for me to think of a more absurd comparison than to mashup the work of others and point at one of the most influential modern artists and say "my stuff is like that."

Because it's not and I don't know why you feel the need to humor this idiot.

I'm not humouring him. I just see the statement as being a launching pad for discussion - that's what a forum is for. Or I could have just posted a lulzy gif, because lord knows we need more of those on this page now.

Just because, in this instance, it's a ridiculous comparison - I don't deny that, Andy Warhol's creativity is leagues ahead of even the most gifted AMV editor with a fancy copy of Final Cut and Adobe After Effects because he actually created things from scratch - doesn't mean that all AMVs are without any artistic merit whatsoever, which is the dominant sentiment in this thread, and it doesn't mean that it's not something worth talking about as AMVs certainly used to be a fairly interesting part of anime fandom.
 

Orlandu84

Member
Even when I know what is going to happen next, I still find myself enjoying this series a lot. This phenomenon was quite acute in this episode in that I almost knew the whole plot after the first two scenes. Part of me wants to be upset about the lack of originality in the series but most of me just wants to sit back and enjoy the ride. I can't tell if that means I am watching too much or too little anime;)
 

madp

The Light of El Cantare
Smile Precure 31:


firehawk asked for it and he got it.

You really have to respect the Bad End Kingdom R&D department for being able to churn out new advances in EEEEEEVIL technology at such an alarming rate but it continues to be all for nothing when your opponents just have to dig deeper into their convictions in order to nullify whatever advances you make.

lol SSJ Candy etc etc, the weirdest part of the episode for me was the sensual group cookie-chewing session that went on way too long. Just really, really weird stuff. It wasn't a great episode, but then again episodes that advance the plot outside of midseason/endgame rarely are.
 

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
Saint Seiya Omega 17

New girl: I'm running away from the bad guys to find something special.
Saints: You are running away from the bad guys to find something special?
New girl: Yes, because my master needs a special macguffin to do macguffin stuff.
Saint: That macguffin stuff can only be done with special macguffin right?
New girl: Yes, and that's why I'm running away from the bad guys.

Repeat until everyone goes goofy-eyed:


This show has been an eye opener regarding just how much can good stock animation carry an otherwise formulaic narrative. I wish I were watching Heartcatch instead.

And the fucking doofuses didn't even meet Kiki! What a letdown.
 

cajunator

Banned
Even when I know what is going to happen next, I still find myself enjoying this series a lot. This phenomenon was quite acute in this episode in that I almost knew the whole plot after the first two scenes. Part of me wants to be upset about the lack of originality in the series but most of me just wants to sit back and enjoy the ride. I can't tell if that means I am watching too much or too little anime;)

I dont have high expectations for the show to begin with, so it has been a fun watch.
Yui is really cute and reminds me of Rin from Usagi Drop.
 

OceanBlue

Member
I'm not humouring him. I just see the statement as being a launching pad for discussion - that's what a forum is for. Or I could have just posted a lulzy gif, because lord knows we need more of those on this page now.

Just because, in this instance, it's a ridiculous comparison - I don't deny that, Andy Warhol's creativity is leagues ahead of even the most gifted AMV editor with a fancy copy of Final Cut and Adobe After Effects because he actually created things from scratch - doesn't mean that all AMVs are without any artistic merit whatsoever, which is the dominant sentiment in this thread, and it doesn't mean that it's not something worth talking about as AMVs certainly used to be a fairly interesting part of anime fandom.
I think all of the GIFs are toward the idea that an AMV and what Warhol did were pretty much the same, not the idea that AMVs have artistic merit. At least, in my opinion, even a "derivative work" like an AMV, a doujin, or fanfiction is a reinterpretation from the author.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
This guy on the ANNcast said that AMVs are pretty much what Andy Warhol did. Because his paintings of soup cans were of existing work.
I listened to that in the background last week. He wasn't quite saying that... lol

He was just trying to defend it as an "art" because Zac said that AMVs are essentially derivative works (you take existing anime and existing music and mash them together).

Having never really watched AMVs, I have no idea how much work goes into them at least.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Yuru Yuri S2 12:

Cute little episode, but I'm kinda glad it's over. The gags were getting old, and while I like Ayano there isn't enough of her anymore. ;_;

And I'm pretty sure they didn't have a script before stepping on stage. ;P
 

Nafe

Member
Retrospective Analysis of Hyouka (Part 1 maybe...)

Often times I don't write up detailed impressions as I find I might just be explaining the obvious but then I read posts by people such as say Jexhius or Hosannainexcelsis detailing the visuals and I still might find them obvious but actually find them to be some of the most interesting of posts. Not to be rude but sometimes too I'm actually quite surprised by how many details that I thought were obvious and didn't really warrant any mention, many people actually didn't notice them and found such posts to then naturally be interesting as well.

For what it's worth then here are some of my thought on Hyouka...

Many people have mentioned that they thought Hyouka was subtle with many of it's points but I didn't really think so personally. While maybe obvious, I did appreciate the fact that, being a visual medium, I thought it was nice that points were explained visually rather than verbally and I found the visual metaphors to be quite eye pleasing with their creativity at times.

iZ0SFKoV5rixm.jpg

From episode 1. Not very subtle but very effective in getting the point across and very visually pleasing with the lighting and coulour palette used.

Another non-subtle scene was that at the beginning of episode 3 with Chitanda and Oreki at the coffee shop. There is a pinkish hue to the scene and the camera focuses on the pendulum of the clock which is heart shaped about 3 or 4 times. Sometimes the clock is center frame other times it is taking up the whole frame. After Chitanda mentions a favour the pinkish hue is gone and the clock pendulum goes back to being round and this is directly focused on by the camera with it taking up the whole screen.

I thought this was an obvious visual metaphor from Oreki's perspective in which the environment was visually representing his interpretations of Chitanda's actions, that being of a more loving interest. When this wasn't the case the scene "defuses" to that of the regular world. At the time I wasn't a member of NeoGaf and to be perfectly honestly was quite surprised by how many people posting impressions did not notice all these signs, especially the pendulum of the clock as the camera directly focuses on it multiple times.

Now with that visual symbolism mentioned, while I will agree that the progression of Oreki and Chitanda's relationship had a more subtle and gradual pacing to it's build up I think it was effectively shown he had an interest in her from fairly early on. Already mentioned in episode 3 was his thinking she had an interest in him. Even in episode 6 where Chitanda mentioned something about conserving energy along the lines of Oreki's thinking he had a visual thought of her such as this.

images


Then there was him imagining Chitanda at the hot springs and getting flustered. Later in episode 19 where their relationship had progressed that I believe they were both at least somewhat cognisant of the fact that they were interested in each other you had some very unsubtle shots framed as such here.

iPllF9JDPtyyx.jpg

The two of them are together in the center of the shot quite literally framed and it looks like Chitanda is leaning in to kiss Oreki when she's in reality only telling him something.

Fm1uC.png

Probably even less subtle about the fact that their relationship has advanced to the point of being more lovingly interested in on another.

Back temporarily to episode 18 when Oreki is waiting for Chitanda you see him looking at a girl waiting for a boy and they then walk home together. Immediately after this Chitanda comes along with Oreki looking at her and you can tell that he's thinking of her in the same way that he saw the couple just moments before. In some ways I would have preferred it if they had just left it at this but they show some visual thought's of Oreki's in how the two would ride Chitanda's bicycle instead. While very much less subtle in presentation it did make for a bit of a humourous scene in how it was presented coupled with Yuuichi Nakamura's voice acting.

Moving away from Oreki and Chitanda's romantic interests there was even the visual metaphor of how each characters private room reflected their own personalities. When you look at Oreki's room it seemed to be fairly plain with mostly only the essentials such as a bed or a desk etc. This seemed to be a perfect outward expression of his "do only what is necessary and nothing more" type attitude. In contrast you have something such as Satoshi's room which had all kinds of objects that were all kinds of colours representing his more bright and outgoing personality. While the cultural festival arc helped to show Mayaka's love of manga she never really showed it beforehand in the show so I thought it was interesting that the first glimpse we got to see of this was her room and how she has all these manga books displayed, quite openly actually, on her shelves.

Regarding the actual mysteries themselves, they seemed to have a very deliberate focus as well. Many times the camera would deliberately highlight the relevant items of interest. As an example I will use episode 3. When Oreki is approaching the room Tougaito was in he stops and looks at an object on the wall. The camera directly focuses in on this object and he turns and looks at a similar object which the camera also focuses on. When Oreki gets to the room he is surveying how the inside looks and the camera will focus directly on his eyes signifying to the viewer when he stops on an item of interest to him. The camera will then fully frame an object such as the table or it will be positioned directly over Oreki's shoulder with a clear line of sight at what he's looking at or even vice versa where the object of interest is taking up most of the foreground and Oreki is in the background but quite clearly looking directly at said object.

I find this is a two fold visual clue to the viewer. Firstly being to pay attention to these objects highlighted because they are important to the mystery and secondly pay attention to only these objects, or perhaps at least emphasize these above all other clues as the camera is essentially going out of it's way to highlight them for you, showing you that they are what's important and not something else.

Even with Tougaito himself, when the audience first meets him his body language seems to be so emphasized that something is irritating him and Ryoutarou Okiayu's speech style is also showing he's very upset over something. Honestly it came across as almost overacting or over emphasizing this detail. I forget which but Chitanda asks Oreki, or vice versa, something like "it seemed like something was bothering him" or "did he seemed pretty irritated to you?". Honestly I would again have to say it was hard not to notice that detail, it felt like they were practically beating you over the head with it.

Finally for now, one little thing that bugged at least me personally was how some of the earlier mysteries were solved. In the student film arc Irisu mentions something called "Knox's ten commandments". These are a sort of set of rules one can use in regards to a mystery and while Hyouka never makes any mention of using them in itself, I found that Oreki seemingly broke Knox's sixth quite often in the earlier mysteries. The sixth reads "No accident must ever help the detective, nor must he ever have an unaccountable intuition which proves to be right."

The bolded seemed to fit Oreki pretty well, as it seemed to be somewhat one of his character traits and he seemed to often guess what the solution was to some mysteries. The solution presented for Episode 2 for example was too specific for the clues given and the show even seems somewhat aware of the fact with the characters asking Oreki how he did it but it's often lampshaded with Oreki saying something along the lines of "I just got lucky". Kind of minor but something that bothered me a little in the early episodes.

----

These are just some of my thoughts regarding Hyouka that were in my mind when these episodes aired but I never shared until now. I've actually got to go now but I might do a second part later detailing other points.

Again as always, thank you to those for reading.
 

yes, lol.

Kingdom 16

Ah this next arc will be great once people get more stronger. Lu Buwei's forces definitely way better than Cheng Jiao's was, and they are all such interesting characters and personalities.
Lol when Zheng was all stomping his foot there angry once the Lu Buwi left
.

The pressure stuff reminded me of the early portions of Bleach when the characters have such intense well pressure auro around them that you cant stand up nor even speak.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
If you want to see the ultimate MADs you should look up the Boy Next Years. Warning they are very NSFW.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom