Sounds like we have a pride match in the works. :]
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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS |OT| It's out in Japan
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
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Sticking with red. Plus it's the traditional smash color.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I dunno, the VI video gives that vibe that the person will just let the affected player fall to safety or recover because they're too obsessed with "but he didn't die at x%!!!!11!! this is defensive like Brawl!!!11!"
The video could have at least followed up with an explanation or something, because it really gives a bad impression.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Damn they got youre whole record on for glory? Can you see other peoples records?
astrogamer
Member
Quote for a US Club Nintendo Demo Code,
Well you're not really wrong. Some characters are just going to be inherently better at vertical KO's and some won't be, hence why I brought up Mega Man and Sonic as feasible examples since they have really good options on following up for vertical approaches. Influencing Knockback downward when battling them almost seems like it does them a favor.
That said, horizontal KO's have a lot more options to consider rather than vertical KO's so it seems like that's the generally safest bet.
No I mean I've just played him around 12 times in a row and now lost yet, it doesn't actually show records of individual people or anything unfortunately.
I'm not sure what video you're talking about.
But it sounds like one of the ones just showing off the research? What you're saying makes sense if you're talking about reactions to the video, but if you're just showing off what percent a person gets killed at of course it's meaningless to go edgeguard them.
PadWarrior
Member
Awesome! Enjoy it!
What video are you talking about?
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
That VI test is nuts. The concept is fine, but a 50% difference in those examples is just ridiculous. Something like a 20% difference would be reasonable I think.
I just got so mad at those games Joe and I have no idea why. I just couldn't seem to do anything and it really got on my nerves. ggs.
Not a John but I think my circle pad is breaking. I can't seem to do smash attacks to the left or right anymore consistantly and my circle pad seems to be off center.
Not a John but I think my circle pad is breaking. I can't seem to do smash attacks to the left or right anymore consistantly and my circle pad seems to be off center.
Try recalibrating it in the settings menu on the 3DS?
I do accidental FSmashes all the time and recalibrating seemed to fix some of it.
Mr. Smiley
Member
Eshop updates at 12 AM est
oh alright, thanks. can't wait for this!
Hmm.. not sure about replicating that
It definitely doesn't seem stuck downwards, but I pulled at it with a decent amount of force and it hasn't made any difference.
I honestly believe I wasn't too rough with it. I've played how I always have, which from my point of view isn't particularly violent or quick.
Thanks for anyone giving suggestions.
PadWarrior
Member
I want some good pit footage
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
So i've been playing smash 3DS on my japanese original 3DS for a week. Finally got my XL back in the mail and used a club nintendo code to put the smash demo on it last night... and holy crap does it look blurry compared to the original 3DS. I just need to get used to it, but man, those bigger pixels are glaringly obvious when immediately switching from one 3DS to another using the same exact game.
Too much playing demo...too addicted lol!
I'm really liking Megaman despite the flaws he have against the other characters. My good impressions so far:
- While his projectile attacks beside his charged buster is pretty weak, all his melee attacks are really killers.
- His dash attack (Top Spin) covers a lot of horizontal distance and has a good amount of knockback. Pretty great for driving opponents on the edge or getting them airborne when the last frame of the attack hits.
- All his smash attacks have serious knockback than has great KO potential, especially his down smash. Downsides are the ending lag is pretty long, and his charged buster can be reflected or grabbed (Villager).
- His air game is very versatile. His fair is pretty fast and has good knockback. His bair is another killer move and has pretty good range to drive opponents off the stage for easy KO.
- His uair can also be a cheap KO if mastered. And it also deals pretty good damage and can be a good move against attacks from above.
- His hard knuckle is pretty difficult to hit just like most of meteor smash attacks but because of additional range, it is much easier to recover after execution of it.
- He also has an awesome default recovery. Rush Coil usage does not remove your second jump if you have not used it yet. And for some reason (can someone confirm it too) I can use Rush Coil twice after being hit Mario's cape. I remember you can't do that in other characters. Not Villager levels of OP, but he has the 2nd best recovery among the demo characters, by a huge margin.
I'm really liking Megaman despite the flaws he have against the other characters. My good impressions so far:
- While his projectile attacks beside his charged buster is pretty weak, all his melee attacks are really killers.
- His dash attack (Top Spin) covers a lot of horizontal distance and has a good amount of knockback. Pretty great for driving opponents on the edge or getting them airborne when the last frame of the attack hits.
- All his smash attacks have serious knockback than has great KO potential, especially his down smash. Downsides are the ending lag is pretty long, and his charged buster can be reflected or grabbed (Villager).
- His air game is very versatile. His fair is pretty fast and has good knockback. His bair is another killer move and has pretty good range to drive opponents off the stage for easy KO.
- His uair can also be a cheap KO if mastered. And it also deals pretty good damage and can be a good move against attacks from above.
- His hard knuckle is pretty difficult to hit just like most of meteor smash attacks but because of additional range, it is much easier to recover after execution of it.
- He also has an awesome default recovery. Rush Coil usage does not remove your second jump if you have not used it yet. And for some reason (can someone confirm it too) I can use Rush Coil twice after being hit Mario's cape. I remember you can't do that in other characters. Not Villager levels of OP, but he has the 2nd best recovery among the demo characters, by a huge margin.
KittenMaster
Member
I thought you were talking about this post, which shows how much VI can affect knockback and greatly affects vertical KOs.
Yes, there are other ways to KO, but it is bad to see that one option for KO'ing is much weaker than it could be.
Sothis Krieg
Member
Do you think that the balance in VI could be modified in a patch if in the long run if it proves to be a pain ? What is the stance of Sakurai about balance patches ?
I've not played smash since melee so i'm a bit out of touch concerning the details
I've not played smash since melee so i'm a bit out of touch concerning the details
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Not if it's characters like Pikachu or Megaman.
Probably, but it was a few posts back. I actually haven't watched this one, I'll check it out. Thanks for the (re)link.
Have you got any tips for me on how the hell to fight against Ness?
Maybe I was just playing worse than usual due to getting fired up in the wrong way, but I'd actually like to learn something from that x_x
Feel free to steal all of my content and claim it as your own.
I'll understand if you wanna do better write-ups on it w/ lag descriptions, which I didn't do.
Ideally, this is what I'd want as well. Sakurai is really, really good with the amount of detail he puts into these games and he focuses on older characters and franchises that we would have likely never seen if someone else is directing this series (regardless of where they are now, I doubt we would have ever seen the Ice Climbers as a playable character with anyone else). However, as far as gameplay goes a lot of his design choices leave a lot to be desired. The fact that he deliberately removed the momentum you receive from running being transferred into your jumps completely blows my mind.
I've been thinking why Sakurai could be so anti-competitive and I think the reason why is that he sees the Smash competitive community as removing many, many things that he and his team spent hundreds of hours on. Imagine how barebones Melee would have felt if it only shipped with the tourney legal stages and no items. So I think Sakurai decided that instead of trying to have the casual and the competitive meet halfway, he just started axing mechanics that competitive players used to widen the skill gap and threw in For Glory mode which really only reflected how poorly he understood the competitive community.
What I would like to see in a future Smash title, and I don't see this happening, is trying to reach a middleground between casual and competitive that the competitive community could use as a tourney standard right out of the box. Basically, the standard Smash match would have everything the majority of Smash players enjoyed but with the randomness toned down heavily.
I would make two big changes to the way items work: 1) items are tiered by effectiveness and certain tiers only pop up in certain parts of the stage after a specific amount of time has passed 2) the little twinkly effect that items have when they pop in would stick around for 2-3 seconds before the item actually appears, alerting the fighters that an item would soon appear. So for example, 15 seconds into a match an item starts to warp in on the left side. An experienced player knows that 15 seconds in a low-tier item will pop in so something particularly weak like the Bunny Hood might show up. 1 minute in a bomb might appear at the certain of the stage. The effect this would achieve is people wouldn't be accidentally setting off random explosives with attacks as they would have warning and items would work in sort of an arena FPS way where the players know when a certain weapon should appear so they start heading towards that part of the stage to grab it.
The only issues with tiered items is 1) a few items will inevitably be in the wrong tier and 2) there's so many items that there still would be a randomness factor in what item from the tier will actually appear. I don't think it's feasible to make it that the several dozen items in the game all have a specific spot and time they will pop up.
Another change I'd make to make more the game competitive friendly is something everyone always suggests: multiple versions of each stage. Basically I'd make each stage (if possible) have a Battlefield, Final Destination, and No Hazard variant. In fact, I'm still hoping we get a DLC Battlefield variant option for each stage that has a Final Destination variant as that seems like a pretty obvious thing to do.
And since this post already turned into a Smash 6 game design theory post, make the game more like a modern fighting game and give everyone super meter to activate Final Smashes. You could have giant ass beam battles between Samus and Mario. Also, people could use that meter to do EX specials that have more damage, more invincibility, better recovery, etc. or use that meter for a Faultless Defense type mechanic or to give you instant, full power smashes. If there was a Final Smash meter, characters with terrible Final Smashes could just spend their meter elsewhere.
VI is just something we'll have to deal with. I think the game is really fun, though in the demo I noticed it was pretty hard to kill (Combination of just survivability and the fact that level 9 CPUs are tougher..).
I only hope people don't freak out and drop this game competitively just because it's good to see the meta of the game go farther and for a big community to form around such a game in general. It's better to have this info upfront as well, more data for the Smash devs if they care to patch.
I only hope people don't freak out and drop this game competitively just because it's good to see the meta of the game go farther and for a big community to form around such a game in general. It's better to have this info upfront as well, more data for the Smash devs if they care to patch.
Don't get grabbed
All these tests are happening in a vacuum. It's one thing to set up a perfect circumstance in training mode, and then apply it in the game. There will be follow ups, mix-ups, off-stage gimping to contend with. So far, none of the tests have shown the effect when characters are "enraged" at higher percents, or the impact of taking a vertical off the top of a platform in Battlefield.
In Melee and Brawl people used "DI" to last at higher percents. Now, the mechanic has changed, but the concept is the same -- what can you do when knocked in the air to last longer. I really do not see this impacting the excitement or viability of tournament play, as everyone will find a style that suits them.
From a purely causal standpoint, this mechanic is intuitive and fun -- there are no casual players anywhere who will take issue with the idea of "holding down to live".
That video is just an explanation of how VI works in regards to sending someone to the blast zone, and then at the end he summarizes how it may allow people to escape combos at low percents (by increasing the knockback).
I don't see what place edgeguarding or followup opportunities even have in a video like this.
Wow, that's insane
It seems like this will end up benefiting hard to kill heavy weights tremendously
Easier said than done when you're stuck in a PK fire shielding
Who do you play? With Robin I usually just space people out with specials so the strategy is going to be different for you I'd imagine
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Those points were mine as to counter this "terror of VI". Options to attack and such.
Mind you people have been VI-ing just fine before someone said it, and they seem to be fine.
Also, if you do get grabbed and you're at low %, just hold up and you can avoid literally every followup Ness can perform after his DThrow, the joys of VI!
Lord Phol
Member
I didn't think of that, Bowser definetly benefits from it.
I can see a lot of competitive players not liking the 'rage' mechanic. It basically punishes you for playing perfectly / healing with characters that can.
But I don't care about that, or VI. For once, Smash is going to have a competent competitive online mode. That's all I care about!
But I don't care about that, or VI. For once, Smash is going to have a competent competitive online mode. That's all I care about!
I think it'll lead to a meta of spiking more against heavies definately. If you knock them below the stage there'll be no issues.
Also I recalibrated my circle pad and after lifting on the rubber it seems the rubber is indeed completely lose, but still functional I beat a Japanese Greninja player 2-0. I think I just got salty vs Joe and it clouded my ability to play
Yeah lol, at low percents there is usually zero reason not to just hold up
I'm sorry, but your item idea sounds dreadfully boring. Although I don't like the Final Smash idea some of your other ideas could work.
But that said, this crazy tinfoil hat stuff of Sakurai vs the competitive scene is insane.
I gotta say. Mario's new cape is super good. It looks like if your opponent is pressing in any horizontal direction at the time of the hit, the cape will force them a set distance in the other direction.
I'm not to sure on the details from the old capes. But I seem to remember they were more momentum based?
I'm not to sure on the details from the old capes. But I seem to remember they were more momentum based?
Eh, I think if my idea was implemented I doubt most casual players would ever notice that something had changed with how the items popped up between games so it would should, theoretically, feel the same to them. Regardless, I don't think my idea is the most elegant solution into working items into a competitive format but I can't come up with anything better.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
The rage thing work both ways If its 2 stock I kill you but im at a higher percentage I have a chance of knocking you out earlier.
I think it rewards endurance players and I like that.
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