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[Jrs3000]

Your Greninja is damn decent, you tend to go straight for kills once people are in KO range making your approach predictable, I pretty much made it a game of baiting your down air, your edge game should be much much varied with ninja, there's not many characters that can keep him off stage.

Your Pacman is not varied but you still have a few go to patterns which better players will figure out. Your hydrant shouldn't be my best weapon, I was loving you abandoning your hydrant to me lol, and it cost you some stock.

Yeah I'm like ok 1 smash and your out lets get it over with when they are in the red. I'm working on my edge game but I'm starting to get limited by my input errors with circle pad. Pacman I don't use really except for fun I've just been focusing on greninja right now. I was going to use g&w but you left

Still scared of pacman? lol

 

[Monster Zero]

I didn't mean not varied, I meant more varied lol, and yea, pacman and sonic are shitty matchups for me, hate that dude

 

[Jrs3000]

I didn't mean not varied, I meant more varied lol, and yea, pacman and sonic are shitty matchups for me, hate that dude

LOL. DK, Dee dee, Koopa bring the rage out of me. I hate fighting them on 3ds so much. With a controller i'm sure I won't be raging.

 

[leroidys]

So...







Anyone else not really liking this smash compared to past entries? The newcomers are terrible choices (IMHO) and the balance is totally fucked. The metagame doesn't look promising with tons of spam and rolling. Shields are practically unbreakable again. None of the new levels or modes are very interesting. Doesn't help that my most anticipated fighter (mega man) is nearly pichu levels of bad. Real Olimar, Pokemon Trainer, Snake and Lucas cuts really hurt (don't really give a shit about ice climbers- sorry IC fans.) Also doesn't help that two of my mains (Olimar and G&W) were nerfed to hell.

Just my opinion, of course. Considering cancelling my Wii U pre-order, but my roommates would probably be pissed.

 

[Cosmic Dreams]

So...







Anyone else not really liking this smash compared to past entries? The newcomers are terrible and the balance is totally fucked. The metagame doesn't look promising with tons of spam and rolling. Shields are practically unbreakable again. None of the new levels or modes are very interesting. Doesn't help that my most anticipated fighter (mega man) is nearly pichu levels of bad. Real Olimar, Pokemon Trainer, Snake and Lucas cuts really hurt (don't really give a shit about ice climbers- sorry IC fans.)

Just my opinion, of course. Considering cancelling my Wii U pre-order, but my roommates would probably be pissed.

Totally disagree. I'm enjoying this new iteration of smash myself. Haven't had this much fun since the melee days when that first came out. Brawl was kind of short lived for me, personally.

 

[leroidys]

Totally disagree. I'm enjoying this new iteration of smash myself. Haven't had this much fun since the melee days when that first came out. Brawl was kind of short lived for me, personally.

That seems to be the consensus. Just wanted to see if there's anyone else with even vaguely negative thoughts after this games been out for a while, or if I'm just totally crazy.

 

[k_hop]

Anyone here for some 1v1 fun?

 

[Jrs3000]

Anyone here for some 1v1 fun?

make a room

 

[k_hop]

make a room

Aight, it's up

 

[Jrs3000]

Lost connection for a sec. I'll rejoin.

EDIT: says I can't join, try joining mine.

 

[Geminosity]

The newcomers are terrible choices (IMHO) and the balance is totally fucked... None of the new levels or modes are very interesting

To be honest, these bits I picked out are how I felt about Brawl ^.^; While only the 3rd game in the series it was the first one to really make me look at the newcomers and feel like they hadn't added anything to the game as far as I was concerned (emphasis added just in case someone starts writing an angry post about newcomers added that they liked)
My mains shifted between smash 64 from Kirby to Zelda, but in brawl I was kinda just left playing on Zelda still

As for the current one I feel very different: my thoughts align more with Cosmic's, but I'm sure a quick scan of smashboards would no doubt find you a good number of people who feel the same as yourself, plus I've seen one or two people round these here parts who've expressed some similar sentiments, minus the Wii-U pre-order cancelling :3

I'm not particularly convinced that Megaman is even in the same universe as 'pichu bad' and I say that having fought both very competent Pichu and Megaman players in both games respectively. He does take a slightly different approach to the game to be good with than most people would intuitively use though

 

[Cosmic Dreams]

That seems to be the consensus. Just wanted to see if there's anyone else with even vaguely negative thoughts after this games been out for a while, or if I'm just totally crazy.

I wouldn't say you're crazy. In fact, I can see where you're coming from on the balance aspect-- but I think Nintendo's going to do their best to optimize this iteration's experience on both the handheld and console sides with these balance patches.

I'd say you should give it some time then give it a chance again after a couple balance patches (including the one that should be coming soon) down the road. Don't just throw it to the side just yet when it's only been barely over a month compared to melee (which has a 13 year developed metagame) or brawl (6 years). Who knows? You might just change your mind. If not, then there's nothing wrong with playing the older iterations or hope the next smash suits your needs.

Edit - Maybe you haven't played any good megaman players yet? After playing maverickash's megaman at the LAGAF smash meet up I began to realize just how good he can be. So much potential in the right hands.

I REALLY hope Nintendo considers bringing back some old fighters as DLC in the future. Mewtwo is a good sign.

Spoiler

snaaaaaaake

 

[Masked Man]

Anyone else not really liking this smash compared to past entries? The newcomers are terrible choices (IMHO) and the balance is totally fucked. The metagame doesn't look promising with tons of spam and rolling. Shields are practically unbreakable again. None of the new levels or modes are very interesting. Doesn't help that my most anticipated fighter (mega man) is nearly pichu levels of bad. Real Olimar, Pokemon Trainer, Snake and Lucas cuts really hurt (don't really give a shit about ice climbers- sorry IC fans.) Also doesn't help that two of my mains (Olimar and G&W) were nerfed to hell.

Just my opinion, of course. Considering cancelling my Wii U pre-order, but my roommates would probably be pissed.

I understand concerns over spam (camping, etc.) and rolling, but as far as the newcomers are concerned, I would say this might be the strongest iteration yet--or at the very least, the most in line with what I want. I've been hoping for Little Mac and Duck Hunt Dog for quite some time, and I absolutely adore Palutena as a character, so Smash 4/5 has delivered in a big way. Losing Lucas hurt, of course, but Ness got some major buffs, and the Mother series got some brilliant new tracks (probably the best arrangements on the whole soundtrack), so I'm trying to remain positive.

I also dig a lot of the new stages, although it looks like the Wii U has a couple of bland choices (especially regarding returning stages that could have been new stages). Moreover, the fact that Nintendo is apparently implementing "true" balance patches, means that the metagame might not be as doomed as you think. Anything can happen, of course, but I remain optimistic.

 

[JoeInky]

I'm not going to bother anyone with a long post but I'm also disappointed with Smash 4.

I don't really expect them to change any of the things I'd want for the game in a balance patch (like making it way less defensive), just because that would probably break 8 player mode and obviously they have to balance across all of the modes for some strange reason.

Newcomers are a bit hit and miss for me Villager, WFT, Little Mac, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Bowser Jr and Duck Hunt are all great imo (though I feel Little Mac is poorly implemented).

Shulk, Greninja and Robin I just don't have any interest in either way whereas I hate the inclusion of Palutena, Mii's, Lucina, Dark Pit and Rosalina.

I pretty much don't like most of the newer characters, I want characters like K. Rool, Ridley, Excitebiker, Isaac, Ray, Sukapon, Andy/Sami, an NES Sports rep, Mach Rider, Keiji Thomas, Bubbles, Mike Jones etc.

I'd also want more third parties like Simon Belmont, Ryu Hayabusa, Black Mage.

It's just infinitely more interesting for me to see older characters that already have solid designs get upgraded like ICs, Pit and Duck Hunt.

The stages aren't that great to me either, nor is the implementation of omega mode.

 

[Jrs3000]

ggs, had to do a lil work in between the matches sorry for the delay.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Read this on Smashboards and tried it out for myself and Ganondorf can get a guaranteed Warlock Punch after a Flame Choke if the opponent decides to use the getup attack. Pretty neat. I tried this with Fox and Bowser and it seems to work. If they roll behind you a Reverse Punch is unsafe though since you lose the Super armor for more damage. So if you can react fast enough you can FC again if they roll but if they decide to attack you on get up you can get a free WP in.

Pretty awesome.

 

[Vermillion]

"Shields practically unbreakable?" What?

 

[MagiusNecros]

"Shields practically unbreakable?" What?

This is actually a false statement. If Ganondorf lands his up tilt any shield will break instantly no questions asked.

And speaking of his Up tilt it negates wind effects and renders Dedede and Kirby unable to inhale Ganondorf. At least for Kirby anyway.

 

[FSLink]

Megaman is nowhere near Pichu status. He has great kill moves (up tilt out of shield is great at punishing and kills fresh at 80%), his pellets are great for getting a bit of damage and using nair's knockback to set up for bair and other situations...he should also improve with a GC controller thanks to C Stick giving him more reliable fsmash punishes and RAR bairs. Granted it's still early on and I do think he's likely in the bottom half of the cast thanks to unfavorable matchups against reflector characters, but he's not unviable at the moment.

Plus it's silly to be worried about balance when the game's still extremely young.

 

[JoeInky]

"Shields practically unbreakable?" What?

I think he means that, apart from a few specific shield breaker moves, the shield recharges so quickly and there's so little shield stun that most of the time shield pressure just doesn't exist and there's no real penalty for abusing your shield.

Like, I can sweetspot pound someone shielding and take away over half of their shield, now instead of them being in a situation where shielding is a risky proposition, they can just spam rolls for a second or two and it'll be back to full strength, whereas it should take a good 5 seconds imo.

The only time I ever get to break shields is in the smash run battles where it's ridiculously easy to do.

 

[Spinosaurus]

They already did in the Wii U version. I'm also wondering if the balance patch will just to be to bring parity between the versions. I've noticed several balance changes in the Wii U version, such as Luma's respawn timer being changed from 8 seconds to 13 seconds

NOOOOOOOO

NOT UPDATING

 

[MagiusNecros]

NOOOOOOOO

NOT UPDATING

Suicide tactics like Bowsercide also force sudden death if both opponents are on last stock.

Wario Momentum will probably be gone too.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Wario Momentum will probably be gone too.

Which is why I'm not updating.

I've grown too attached to this glitch. :<

 

[MagiusNecros]

Which is why I'm not updating.

I've grown too attached to this glitch. :<

Yeah I think it adds to Wario's completely silly antics. I used it against my friends last night and they loved it for the sheer hilarity.

 

[Masked Man]

NOOOOOOOO

NOT UPDATING

I knew you would be upset by this. D:

 

[Zane]

Good to see you again! Can't wait to have more Mac matches with you on the Wii U.



Whoa, I totally didn't know they changed anything already! Spin will be disappointed that they got rid of the Wario float. Have you discovered any other considerable changes?

Greninja can no longer cancel his aerials with shadow sneak

 

[Masked Man]

Greninja can no longer cancel his aerials with shadow sneak

Oh! So you can't Shadow Sneak immediately after a Dair, for example?

 

[JoeInky]

Oh! So you can't Shadow Sneak immediately after a Dair, for example?

Exactly, so it's not completely safe anymore.


Also, Rush Cancelling is gone.


I know it makes sense that they'd remove glitches that are positive as well as the negative ones, but I hope they buff shit characters at some point that have had glitches that help them out removed.

 

[Zane]

Oh! So you can't Shadow Sneak immediately after a Dair, for example?

right

 

[MagiusNecros]

Exactly, so it's not completely safe anymore.


Also, Rush Cancelling is gone.


I know it makes sense that they'd remove glitches that are positive as well as the negative ones, but I hope they buff shit characters at some point that have had glitches that help them out removed.

Do we know if Bowser/Charizard/Link's airdodge cancels to specials is removed?

 

[Masked Man]

Exactly, so it's not completely safe anymore.

Also, Rush Cancelling is gone.

I know it makes sense that they'd remove glitches that are positive as well as the negative ones, but I hope they buff shit characters at some point that have had glitches that help them out removed.

right

Thanks to the two of you for the confirmation. Greninja doesn't exactly need any help, but it would be great to see the "weaker" characters get the helping hand they deserve. :/

 

[JoeInky]

Do we know if Bowser/Charizard/Link's airdodge cancels to specials is removed?

I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually get removed, but I don't think they're widely known enough to be removed in this patch.

Nobody has tested it anyway, as far as I'm aware.


We better get detailed patch notes 1.0.4, if it just says this:

We are planning to release the next patch (Ver. 1.0.4) within the month.
This patch will adjust the game balance by refining the strengths of some fighters. It also includes various other gameplay fixes. Please see the notices on the next page.

-Local Wireless will not work if a player who has updated to 1.0.4 tries to battle a player with an older version.
-Receiving patch 1.0.4 will disable playback of replays saved using older versions.
-This patch is required for online play.

Then that would be nowhere near good enough, it's like they think nobody cares about the finer points of the game.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Thanks to the two of you for the confirmation. Greninja doesn't exactly need any help, but it would be great to see the "weaker" characters get the helping hand they deserve. :/

I think Meta Knight is pretty much screwed at this point. He is basically bait and punish at this point. Except other characters who also play the bait and punish game deal more damage and have a vast pool of kill moves. And his hitboxes for his attacks aren't what they could be. Kinda feel sad for the guy.

Then that would be nowhere near good enough, it's like they think nobody cares about the finer points of the game.

As a guy who was into Mugen and stuff if it is that minimalistic and doesn't detail what changes then having a change list like that is complete garbage.

 

[Masked Man]

I think Meta Knight is pretty much screwed at this point. He is basically bait and punish at this point. Except other characters who also play the bait and punish game deal more damage and have a vast pool of kill moves. And his hitboxes for his attacks aren't what they could be. Kinda feel sad for the guy.

As a guy who was into Mugen and stuff if it is that minimalistic and doesn't detail what changes then having a change list like that is complete garbage.

Yeah, I despised MK in Brawl, but the nerf he received in this game is almost too much. D: And I really dislike the fact that these "patch notes" are so half-assed. I understand if they don't want to go into detail about every typo and textual issue they fix, but I agree that mechanical changes--especially character-related adjustments--should be clearly noted.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Yeah, I despised MK in Brawl, but the nerf he received in this game is almost too much. D: And I really dislike the fact that these "patch notes" are so half-assed. I understand if they don't want to go into detail about every typo and textual issue they fix, but I agree that mechanical changes--especially character-related adjustments--should be clearly noted.

Obviously. In most Mugen characters that received changes it would state what was altered or removed mechanically. Example being a infinite would be removed or hitboxes being adjusted or moves having different properties.

 

[JoeInky]

Note that those aren't the patch notes and just the announcement of the patch, we could still get detailed patch notes.


Though I wouldn't be surprised if they took the "It's just a party game, nobody cares about the specifics!" approach.

 

[Karsticles]

Man, Bowser nerfs? :-/

 

[Geminosity]

Yeah, I despised MK in Brawl, but the nerf he received in this game is almost too much. D: And I really dislike the fact that these "patch notes" are so half-assed. I understand if they don't want to go into detail about every typo and textual issue they fix, but I agree that mechanical changes--especially character-related adjustments--should be clearly noted.

It's a bit early to worry about the patch notes for a patch that's not even out yet. Let them give us the actual patch and its real notes first before we get too concerned over what is or isn't in them ;D

 

[MagiusNecros]

Man, Bowser nerfs? :-/

Once it hits no more free Bowsercide wins.

Patch is basically going to apply new .cmd files to all the characters based on the Wii U version.

Maybe a few changes to the Definition files for the characters too.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Greninja can no longer cancel his aerials with shadow sneak

Oh shiiiit.

 

[Karsticles]

Once it hits no more free Bowsercide wins.

Patch is basically going to apply new .cmd files to all the characters based on the Wii U version.

Maybe a few changes to the Definition files for the characters too.

That sucks, because an opponent might actually force the Bowsercide now if they have a character good at getting the first hit in SD.

 

[Geminosity]

That sucks, because an opponent might actually force the Bowsercide now if they have a character good at getting the first hit in SD.

Then don't do the bowsercide grab on them when they have a % lead and you're both on last stock?

 

[Papercuts]

Suicide tactics like Bowsercide also force sudden death if both opponents are on last stock.

Wario Momentum will probably be gone too.

NOOOOOOOO

I'm guessing that applies to ganondorf too.

 

[Karsticles]

Is there a compiled list of changes in the Wii U version somewhere?

Also, I am not sure how I feel about the Rosalina nerf. I fought a very skilled Rosalina for the first time last night and went even. I was able to take out Luma quickly quite often.

Then don't do the bowsercide grab on them when they have a % lead and you're both on last stock?

This is incredibly unsympathetic when I just lost another situational tool for no reason. If you really think the nerf was necessary, speak up.

The easy remedy would be to never let the opposing player have more influence over the grab than Bowser. At most, they can cancel out any momentum he is trying to assign.

 

[emb]

So...

Anyone else not really liking this smash compared to past entries? The newcomers are terrible choices (IMHO) and the balance is totally fucked. The metagame doesn't look promising with tons of spam and rolling. Shields are practically unbreakable again. None of the new levels or modes are very interesting. Doesn't help that my most anticipated fighter (mega man) is nearly pichu levels of bad. Real Olimar, Pokemon Trainer, Snake and Lucas cuts really hurt (don't really give a shit about ice climbers- sorry IC fans.) Also doesn't help that two of my mains (Olimar and G&W) were nerfed to hell.

Just my opinion, of course. Considering cancelling my Wii U pre-order, but my roommates would probably be pissed.

I can relate. I'm more positive about it than you are, but I do have my issues with the games.

Modes look better on Wii U (and I don't hate Smash Run now), and I feel like Mega Man isn't as bad as you think. But I see where's you're coming from. Just a few small design choices make the game feel weak overall, but I still don't think it's bad.

Read this on Smashboards and tried it out for myself and Ganondorf can get a guaranteed Warlock Punch after a Flame Choke if the opponent decides to use the getup attack. Pretty neat.

That is pretty neat! Sounds hype.

Oh! So you can't Shadow Sneak immediately after a Dair, for example?

Hmm. Interesting change. I guess Greninja will be that tiny bit easier to deal with. Though too many Greninjas I've seen get into the bad habit of doing it immediately after EVERY down air that hits the ground.

That sucks, because an opponent might actually force the Bowsercide now if they have a character good at getting the first hit in SD.

It would really make more sense to just count it as a win. For tournaments I hope it's handled that way still; if it goes to Sudden Death via Bowser's side b, just give Bowser the w.

 

[MagiusNecros]

NOOOOOOOO

I'm guessing that applies to ganondorf too.

Not sure yet. Ganondorf might always have the advantage on his. But it's looking like Sudden Death right now. I'm only sure on Bowser. Kirby/Dedede generally both died at the same time anyway so yeah.

 

[Masked Man]

Obviously. In most Mugen characters that received changes it would state what was altered or removed mechanically. Example being a infinite would be removed or hitboxes being adjusted or moves having different properties.

I never played Mugen. :3 Ideally, that's what Nintendo will do for these patch notes, but we'll see!

It's a bit early to worry about the patch notes for a patch that's not even out yet. Let them give us the actual patch and its real notes first before we get too concerned over what is or isn't in them ;D

Yeah, I shouldn't be such a fearmonger. I need to have more faith!

 

[MagiusNecros]

If I am correct, I expect the patch to go live around the release of Smash Wii U. Which is right around the corner.

I hope the Ganondorf Auto Cancels stay in. He needs them honestly. Kinda hoping the little things go unnoticed.

 

[Karsticles]

If I am correct, I expect the patch to go live around the release of Smash Wii U. Which is right around the corner.

I hope the Ganondorf Auto Cancels stay in. He needs them honestly. Kinda hoping the little things go unnoticed.

Now I am worried about Bowser's air dodge cancel. Sakurai is making some big changes. :-/

 

[MagiusNecros]

Now I am worried about Bowser's air dodge cancel. Sakurai is making some big changes. :-/

And Meta Knight is looking to still be shit.