There's a Third Strike Kuroda exhibition running right now, Kuroda on 2P with a 24-game win streak right now:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/versus-live2
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/versus-live2
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Super Street Fighter 4 |OT2| BACK OF THE BUS, SAGAT!
- Thread starter EviLore
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sixteen-bit
Member
Gamerbee makes America look gamerfreeJoekage said:
BotoxAgent
Member
Lol, I wholeheartedly disagree. Gamerbee worked hard to take full advantage of adon's tools._Xenon_ said:
I dunno if any of you guys were watching that, but Kuroda got to 44 wins before being beaten by a Makoto (thought to be Boss)?USD said:
Some guy was yelling "43 WINS I CALL IT! YANG IS GOING TO LOSE NOW!" :lol Unlucky.
Was getting pretty sick of Yang by the end of it, but it was cool. Not so much looking forward to him in AE, but makes me want 3S Online even more.
OK, watched the second LainySky/Gamerbee match. When Viper gets her offense going, she can absolutely crush Adon. Nice that stand roundhouse totally stuffs Jaguar Tooth. Lainy got blown up though, Gamerbee made some adjustments from the first match and Lainy got screwed over by some execution errors.USD said:
I also fell asleep right before the GamerBee-Valle FT10, and I've been watching it right now for the last 22 minutes, and honestly I'm not surprised with the way it's been going, GamerBee is a rush-down monster with Adon, my kind of play style that I can't get enough of. Love it.
Sad to just read that Adon got toned down in the AE location tests as I play him myself - come on man, that was unnecessary - he's got the frame-traps, safe specials, anti-fireball status but come on - just bring everyone else UP like they said they would before Super.
Sad to just read that Adon got toned down in the AE location tests as I play him myself - come on man, that was unnecessary - he's got the frame-traps, safe specials, anti-fireball status but come on - just bring everyone else UP like they said they would before Super.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
WTF??_Xenon_ said:
Capcom nerfed a BUNCh of characters for no good reason, means nothing.
Adon is not broken, Gamerbee winning does'nt mean anything is broken, He did'nt win SB for free he put put in losers and almost got eliminated a couple of times. Adon does'nt win for free, he's not even Vanilla Sagat status.
I think people need to stop looking at Adons quicker wake up as part of his toolset. That shit is broken. Many people didnt even realize he had it until Evo. I was telling people during the JWong match that it was different and they thought I was crazy.
I think they should maybe reverse the focus properties of Jag Kick as well. As it is, only Air JK is focusable and he's a focus break monster as it is. Characters without DPs are kinda screwed in dealing with it on the ground and even those with it have to have damn good reaction to it. Increasing the recovery frames on block is somethong im not a fan.
I think they should maybe reverse the focus properties of Jag Kick as well. As it is, only Air JK is focusable and he's a focus break monster as it is. Characters without DPs are kinda screwed in dealing with it on the ground and even those with it have to have damn good reaction to it. Increasing the recovery frames on block is somethong im not a fan.
Wandering Leopard
Member
lol I used to think that too before I started to realise the players who used him weren't very good oh and not jumping always helps. And because he is so common online, when you face a decent one you know exactly what to expect and can adjust better than most of the other match ups.Kimosabae said:
Axis
Member
Joekage said:
good ft20 last night fucker
PhatSaqs said:
i don't know if it works for everyone with an IOH or a quick, good priority air move...but i've found that IOH j.rh with chun works really well for dealing with jag kick pressure, even when well spaced...not sure if guy or rose have something like that but it's possible to deal with it that way if they do
sixteen-bit
Member
At a charity tournament I remember Adon's fast wakeup surprising my opponent, allowing me to get a free grab. I was totally rocking the troll face.PhatSaqs said:
I ended up losing the match, lol
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
PhatSaqs said:
god i disagree, outside of RH the guy barely has any footsies, focusable Jagkick would kill the agressive nature of the character completely. Hell i think Capcom should've approach Makoto the same way and give Axekick armor break= property the same as Jagkick.
Its not fun eating a random focus get crumpled and lose half your life, specially low Health characters like them.
Yeah, Tsurugi in my opinion should definitely be armor break. Either that or always an overhead (god mode = it's both :lol). I think Capcom has this thing about air specials being either though. If an air special is overhead, it's usually only on EX. And the only air armor breakers I can readily think of are Condor Dive and Juri's dive kick.~Devil Trigger~ said:
SonOfABeep
Banned
well look at honda, he's at the top of that tier list, but look at his bad matchups -
Chun, Ryu, Guile, Sagat, Seth, Dhalsim
Those some top tier motherfuckers, and popular to boot.
Honda players don't win tournaments for free, they just have a fairer shot against most of the cast than other characters.
I just hope he doesn't lose his damage, he does a ton but people should know jab/EX hb is godlike anti air and not to let him get in close. Cause what can he do at range? nothing.
Random headbutts, lol.
Chun, Ryu, Guile, Sagat, Seth, Dhalsim
Those some top tier motherfuckers, and popular to boot.
Honda players don't win tournaments for free, they just have a fairer shot against most of the cast than other characters.
I just hope he doesn't lose his damage, he does a ton but people should know jab/EX hb is godlike anti air and not to let him get in close. Cause what can he do at range? nothing.
Random headbutts, lol.
SonOfABeep
Banned
Brobzoid said:
he is frustrating to fight because so many of his moves are so safe on block. If you don't have a 2 frame jab or a 3 frame punish you don't get to do much on block against him.
Once he gets you in that rushdown it's very hard to get out. Fortunately honda has some good answers for his stuff
SonOfABeep
Banned
right - there's totally factors that can change those 5/5s into 6/5s for a lot of characters.
It's hard to get in though! Don't take my tools away ;(SonOfABeep said:he is frustrating to fight because so many of his moves are so safe on block. If you don't have a 2 frame jab or a 3 frame punish you don't get to do much on block against him.
Once he gets you in that rushdown it's very hard to get out. Fortunately honda has some good answers for his stuff
SonOfABeep
Banned
I thought adon was underrated for a long time. My good friend has been using him since day 1 of super and giving me hell the entire time.
WOW. If feilong / cammy / bison can live with it why can't Adon? His Jagkick is already safer and faster than rekkas / cammy arrow so how is it killing his nature by making it focusable? Seriously people today just want a safe move that can be spammed over and over instead of putting more efforts on footsies and spacing.~Devil Trigger~ said:
DryEyeRelief said:
did I say that? One of my main is blanka so why should I worry about fireball spamming scrubs?Comparing apples and oranges here. Rekkas and Spiral Arrow are much faster than Jaguar Kick. Rekkas are focus punishable with a good read and proper timing, but when in range, crouch jab cancelled into Rekka counters that. Cammy has cr.MK > Arrow. Assuming you're talking about Bison's scissor kick, it's two hits and a natural focus break unless poorly spaced._Xenon_ said:
SonOfABeep said:
That's part of the problem. Honda also has a lot of REALLY good jump ins that not all of the cast can anti air. Then again, I don't think Honda is TOO bad, just needs a slight damage nerf.
Kimosabae said:
Dudley's mixup game is on wakeup. Hell, the majority of the casts mixup starts with a knockdown.
Axis
Member
cHaotix8 said:
no, hondas damage output is retarded...eating jab->hands->jab->hands all day is NOT fun when playing a beastly honda and he does stupid fucking chip even if you block it...it's absolutely ridiculous. also, j.mp beats everything....EVERYTHING
i won't even get into jab->hands->jab->hands->super doing 60-70% of my 900 health
i don't have too much to complain about other than his damage output...maybe a slight nerf to ex headbutt as it's probably the best AA in the game, period...just my 2 cents tho
ShinobiFist
Banned
:lol Son, did you read who i quoted? I guess not. Homeboy stated the only reason Gamerbee wins is because of the character he use's, not because he "outplays" others. And thats why I mention the Ryu/Diago statement. And apparently you didn't read my finishing statement homie. And trust me, I've been part of this fighting game scene longer than most of you TE sticks virgins homie. Been competing in VF and GG for years fam, kill that noise. And once again, no one is saying Ryu is broken, next time I'll use "Bold" font for my comments so you could see them easier.Kimosabae said:
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
_Xenon_ said:
Bison's technically has 2 armor breaking specials, Scissor kicks are 2 hits(right spacing), safe on block, and knock down, what does he have to live with again???... Fei got insane footies normals and Rekkas are far faster and leads to knock down. i dont think i need say anything about Cammy.
Jagkick is not an impossible move to deal with, you act like there's NO answers for it
Rekka and SA are faster only if they are close, and they are dead punishable if blocked close enough. Besides being fast, jagkick can be airborne, which makes it even tricker to deal with. And who would dumb enough to do focus if it's in the jab range? Everybody's jab x 2 or jab cancel into whatever breaks armor.USD said:
At the moment the problem of Adon's offensive game is he can push enemy into corner with MUCH less effort. All he does is:
1. get in
2. cr.jab x2, cr.strong
3. Blocked? jagkick. Hit? jag knee
4. repeat step 2
He may have a problem at the first step (get in) but it's highly arguable (fast jump, fast walk speed, st.rh). Plus his buggy wake up he's pretty much broken in this game.
"God's Beard!"
Member
_Xenon_ said:
Wat
um lol at people saying gamerbee needs to go to japan to each daigo or mago or sako level. last i checked gamerbee won while daigo got 25th place. even if I didnt choke, its still gamerbee 4th to daigo 25th place.:lol:
This is part of the reason why I'm happy Japan didnt win. Theyre a mecca of fighting games of course, but other people can play too!
Also..adon is not broken in any way shape or form. Gamerbee is broken, thats pretty much it. The character has quite a few weaknesses which Gamerbee still works around.
Like:
Jaguar Kick is -2 on block from a distance. Which means if he doesnt DP, you can simply use your 3f normal to bully him post JK. If he does it meaty...its -3. Which means you can SPD/command grab him.
Adon gets raped by charge characters. 95% of the ppl that play charge characters dont know the Adon matchup. That's not gamerbees fault, at all. Walking back owns this fool, its not Gamerbees fault they dont wanna block on wakeup real talk.
For example, Adon cant even DP fadc safely on Balrog without eating his 3f jabs after fadc (which forces him to DP.) Rog can even interrupt dp fadc dp with EX rush punch...it will absorb the followup completely. You should try it. it doesnt help that gamerbee has a good boxer to play against...but at the same time ppl keep rush punching into his neutral jumps
besides charge characters ibuki gives adon hell as well. she can evade/avoid/flat out beat a lot of adons setups. but only nerdjosh knows the matchup lol. Cammy gives Adon real problems too
Adon DP also has some weaknesses in the fact that you can walk back on it and it will whiff if hes trying to force the issue.
I still dont think Adon is anywhere above mid. Gamerbee is just that good. People still refuse to learn the matchup. Mike Ross at least can counterpick this fool. Maybe next time I get to play Gamerbee I wont drop combos..yeah right.
This is part of the reason why I'm happy Japan didnt win. Theyre a mecca of fighting games of course, but other people can play too!
Also..adon is not broken in any way shape or form. Gamerbee is broken, thats pretty much it. The character has quite a few weaknesses which Gamerbee still works around.
Like:
Jaguar Kick is -2 on block from a distance. Which means if he doesnt DP, you can simply use your 3f normal to bully him post JK. If he does it meaty...its -3. Which means you can SPD/command grab him.
Adon gets raped by charge characters. 95% of the ppl that play charge characters dont know the Adon matchup. That's not gamerbees fault, at all. Walking back owns this fool, its not Gamerbees fault they dont wanna block on wakeup real talk.
For example, Adon cant even DP fadc safely on Balrog without eating his 3f jabs after fadc (which forces him to DP.) Rog can even interrupt dp fadc dp with EX rush punch...it will absorb the followup completely. You should try it. it doesnt help that gamerbee has a good boxer to play against...but at the same time ppl keep rush punching into his neutral jumps
besides charge characters ibuki gives adon hell as well. she can evade/avoid/flat out beat a lot of adons setups. but only nerdjosh knows the matchup lol. Cammy gives Adon real problems too
Adon DP also has some weaknesses in the fact that you can walk back on it and it will whiff if hes trying to force the issue.
I still dont think Adon is anywhere above mid. Gamerbee is just that good. People still refuse to learn the matchup. Mike Ross at least can counterpick this fool. Maybe next time I get to play Gamerbee I wont drop combos..yeah right.
Axis
Member
_Xenon_ said:
...what the fuck are you going on about? adon is NOT broken...everything he has can be countered. the fact he wakes up 3 frames faster is the only fucked up thing he has. wanna stop him from getting in? learn to play footsies and learn to counter jaguar kick with whatever char you use and punish him when he whiffs jaguar kicks as most adons can't space them out for shit...you want to punish someone who actually spent a lot of time learning the character? you can pressure adon...he's not some defensive wall you need to stay away from...he's not zangief...get over yourself
ShinobiFist
Banned
~Devil Trigger~ said:
You forgot to mention Bison's cross up PC, but yeah, you nailed it.
One more thing I forgot to mention.
Adons wakeup while annoying, can be worked around.
Its extremely weak to certain crossup setups (for example with shoto, try to throw Adon, then safejump crossup tatsu. 9 out of 10 times the DP will not autocorrect and Adon gets tagged.
Gief can also use this as well after green glove in a lot of situations.
Viper can use low BK on Adon wakeup to make his DP whiff as well..but she has other problems in the matchup.
People shouldnt complain that Adon is broken when they dont know the matchup. Ty to play him and youll see his weaknesses.
Adons wakeup while annoying, can be worked around.
Its extremely weak to certain crossup setups (for example with shoto, try to throw Adon, then safejump crossup tatsu. 9 out of 10 times the DP will not autocorrect and Adon gets tagged.
Gief can also use this as well after green glove in a lot of situations.
Viper can use low BK on Adon wakeup to make his DP whiff as well..but she has other problems in the matchup.
People shouldnt complain that Adon is broken when they dont know the matchup. Ty to play him and youll see his weaknesses.
1. People still use well spaced focus to deal with scissor kick in tournement.~Devil Trigger~ said:
2. All of those 3 moves don't do much damage while Jagkick does 130 at the moment (163 on CH).
3. Being able to land a techable knock down isn't much of an advantage.
I'm not saying there's NO answer to it. But most of the 'answers' aren't that efficient.
Rekka is always faster (the slowest is 10 frames). Any smart Fei is spacing out Rekkas properly so that they're either unpunishable or very hard-to-punish, and if the opponent mistimes the FA, you get a free counter hit. Fei's crouch jab also has a significantly longer range than most jabs, so jab-cancel into Rekka is viable._Xenon_ said:
At cr.MK, Cammy's Arrow is certainly faster. Beyond that, you're going for safe arrows anyway.
1. Then that's the Bison's fault._Xenon_ said:
2. Full Rekka does more damage. If you're Bison, you're using LK Scissors anyway, which is safe on block. For its range, Spiral Arrow (except HK) shouldn't be doing more damage.
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