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[Scrooge McDuck]

Yup to the rest of the world and some of them there. More on Fox at 10

If your entire input on this discussion is that these kind of things are not surprising coming from Japanese entertainment media, then I agree with you. It's not shocking; it's just sad, and hopefully they can strive to be better.

 

[Muzicfreq]

What were you hoping to achieve by coming into this thread?

What does anyone hope to achieve in this thread other than spouting that they need to change the way they are and what they view as humorous.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

There are but also at the same time their culture is different from yours and mine and many others.
A game developed by Japanese people and using Japanese humor.. shocker

In Singapore it's illegal for men to be gay. But that's alright, since it's just their culture.

 

[aadiboy]

This makes me wonder how people are going to react to the gay bodybuilders in FF7R.

 

[Shaanyboi]

What does anyone hope to achieve in this thread other than spouting that they need to change the way they are and what they view as humorous.

Nah, that's not an answer. What did you specifically hope to achieve by coming in and shrugging, going "that's their culture" when we're talking about shitty regressive attitudes Persona 5 holds against the gay community?

Were you hoping people would just stop criticizing this kind of shit, as if there aren't people in Japan who get affected by this stuff?

 

[Kinsei]

This makes me wonder how people are going to react to the gay bodybuilders in FF7R.

Hopefully they're not in it.

 

[Muzicfreq]

In Singapore it's illegal for men to be gay. But that's alright, since it's just their culture.

So are we in other countries supposed to go up to them and bang on the door and yell
"YOUR WRONG!"
Oh wait we already do in other parts of the world

 

[Shaanyboi]

So are we in other countries supposed to go up to them and bang on the door and yell
"YOUR WRONG!"
Oh wait we already do in other parts of the world

Aw shit, that's some edgy commentary, bruh!

 

[RM8]

I think we need to contact Japanese LGBT activists who struggle to achieve basic respect in their society and tell them to stop what they're doing, since some anime fans in other countries think ridiculing minorities is a cultural trait, and one that should be shielded from criticism.

 

[duckroll]

In Singapore it's illegal for men to be gay. But that's alright, since it's just their culture.

Come on, this is a misrepresentation. It's only illegal if you insert your dick into another man's mouth or anus! The sexual orientation itself is not the issue! Perfectly okay! Not anti-gay! Lol.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I also love the notion that criticizing a commercial product being sold internationally is apparently comparable to military aggression based on ideological differences...

Totes the same thing.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

So are we in other countries supposed to go up to them and bang on the door and yell
"YOUR WRONG!"
Oh wait we already do in other parts of the world

What about those in the same country? Is it okay for us to bang on our own door?

 

[Muzicfreq]

Come on, this is a misrepresentation. It's only illegal if you insert your dick into another man's mouth or anus! The sexual orientation itself is not the issue! Perfectly okay! Not anti-gay! Lol.

Kinda like how it is illegal to sexually penetrate a porcupine in Florida?

 

[Razmos]

Mondo Owada in DR1
Junko Enoshima in DR1
Ibuki Mioda in DR2
Teruteru Hanamura in DR2 (he was the problematic one I talked about)
Mahiru Koizumi in DR2
Mikan Tsumiki in DR2
Nagito Komaeda in DR2 (although they neutered the implications of this in the dub)
Komaru Naegi in DRAE
Touko Fukawa in DRAE

Spoiler

Tenko Chabashira

in NDRV3

Spoiler

Kokichi Ouma

in NDRV3

Also the protagonists in School/Island/

Spoiler

Space

Mode can pretty much go whichever way the player veers them although to be fair, the female routes are way more explicit.

While not technically a game there is also Juzo in Danganronpa 3.

It became an actual plot point about his unrequited love for his best friend and despite being a jerkass for most of the series became very sympathetic and heroic towards the end

 

[Monocle]

Come on, this is a misrepresentation. It's only illegal if you insert your dick into another man's mouth or anus! The sexual orientation itself is not the issue! Perfectly okay! Not anti-gay! Lol.

Much like Russia, it is perfectly OK to be a homosexual in Singapore. Just don't discuss it, display it, act on it, or promote it by behaving like a big gay homo in public.

 

[Frozenprince]

Yup to the rest of the world and some of them there. More on Fox at 10

There are but also at the same time their culture is different from yours and mine and many others.
A game developed by Japanese people and using Japanese humor.. shocker

Japanese humor doesn't involve two sexual predators hunting down young boys while being FABULOUS. That's old humor about gay people that's entirely stereotypes and hurtful. Shit you'd see in bad 80's sitcoms and even THEN it was dated and offensive.

That's not some "wacky Japan" shit. I know that for a fact.

 

[Muzicfreq]

What about those in the same country? Is it okay for us to bang on our own door?

Go right on ahead. Locals have better chance of change than outsiders

 

[Frozenprince]

Kinda like how it is illegal to sexually penetrate a porcupine in Florida?

Ooooh.

That's your game.

Yeah nah. Not wasting my time.

 

[duckroll]

Kinda like how it is illegal to sexually penetrate a porcupine in Florida?

I'm not sure this is the comparison you want to make...

 

[Frozenprince]

I'm not sure this is the comparison you want to make...

What, "the queers™" doing whatever weird stuff they do like hold hands and have feelings is totally the same as bestiality.

Shit and here I'd gone almost three months without being equated to people who fuck animals.

 

[Monocle]

So are we in other countries supposed to go up to them and bang on the door and yell
"YOUR WRONG!"
Oh wait we already do in other parts of the world

Yes who are we to say that all humans deserve basic dignity and equal treatment?! That's crazy! Stupid Western values, always getting in the way of people who want to ruin the lives of minorities. Outrageous.

Mind your own business while we persecute these people for being different, that's what I say!

 

[Muzicfreq]

What, "the queers™" doing whatever weird stuff they do like hold hands and have feelings is totally the same as bestiality.

Shit and here I'd gone almost three months without being equated to people who fuck animals.

/Sigh. Wasn't comparing anyone to anything but laws to laws of how specific they can be for stuff

 

[Frozenprince]

/Sigh. Wasn't comparing anyone to anything but laws to laws of how specific they can be for stuff

Mhm.

Sure. And you just happened to immediate jump to bestiality.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Kinda like how it is illegal to sexually penetrate a porcupine in Florida?

You really aiming for that "going down in flames" kinda finish, huh?

 

[Muzicfreq]

Mhm.

Sure. And you just happened to immediate jump to bestiality.

Only because I thought it was an oddly specific law as to why it was made? Who knows.

 

[Frozenprince]

Why am I doing this I said I wasn't wasting my time.

Gay people are being dragged to gulags. Right now. As we type on this stupid crap. Gay people are being executed like livestock or worked to death in camps.

So.

Forgive me for thinking these "harmless little jokes" aren't so funny when most of the world would still kill me for being who I am.

Only because I thought it was an oddly specific law as to why it was made? Who knows.

Yeah, a real mystery.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Go right on ahead. Locals have better chance of change than outsiders

Phew, then this thread has cause to exist, after all.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Only because I thought it was an oddly specific law as to why it was made? Who knows.

Gee. I wonder why the law that criminalized gay sex was made? NO ONE KNOWS

Holy crap dude, are you being a piece of shit to just try get a rise out of people or is this just who you are?

 

[Shaanyboi]

Only because I thought it was an oddly specific law as to why it was made? Who knows.

 

[duckroll]

/Sigh. Wasn't comparing anyone to anything but laws to laws of how specific they can be for stuff

Maybe you're not familiar with why the gay criminalization thing is a huge joke in Singapore. We originally had laws against "unnatural fornication" as holdovers from British laws, which criminalized what was considered unnatural sexual penetration (anything other than dick in vagina). There have always been calls to repel the laws because it's stupid and comes off as specifically targeting homosexuals. Eventually after much debate, most parts of the law have been repelled. They specifically left the clause that specifics male/male penetration as an acknowledgement that conservative values are still present in our society. The claim is that we shouldn't see it as an anti-gay measure and that active enforcement of the law isn't something people should be worried about.

I didn't make that sarcastic comment as a "ha ha look at this weird obscure law" reply. I made it because that's how I cope with the shame of the hypocrisy in my government regarding this matter.

 

[RalchAC]

What does anyone hope to achieve in this thread other than spouting that they need to change the way they are and what they view as humorous.

There was some comment made by the Persona 5 director about him being suprised that the game was so popular overseas. He added that he's curious about how the game would be received in the West.

So there is hope that this kind of information may be sent back to the JP HQ if enough people make their voices heard. Doesn't an Atlus USA PR person lurk GAF? Or was it XSEED?

Since they're totally going to keep the popularity of the IP in the West in mind, it'd be nice if they had some information about what people disliked about the game.

 

[snow in jamaica]

It's not that weird when the writer responsible for P1-P2 left the series afterward. The writing in general has never been the same.

Digital Devil Saga 2, a game written by the same person and directed by Hashino, also had probably the only

Spoiler

intersex playable character ever.

(endgame spoiler but tagging this feels a little lame)

 

[Muzicfreq]

Maybe you're not familiar with why the gay criminalization thing is a huge joke in Singapore. We originally had laws against "unnatural fornication" as holdovers from British laws, which criminalized what was considered unnatural sexual penetration (anything other than dick in vagina). There have always been calls to repel the laws because it's stupid and comes off as specifically targeting homosexuals. Eventually after much debate, most parts of the law have been repelled. They specifically left the clause that specifics male/male penetration as an acknowledgement that conservative values are still present in our society. The claim is that we shouldn't see it as an anti-gay measure and that active enforcement of the law isn't something people should be worried about.

I didn't make that sarcastic comment as a "ha ha look at this weird obscure law" reply. I made it because that's how I cope with the shame of the hypocrisy in my government regarding this matter.

I'm sorry. I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone here. I'm tired and probably should go to bed than be on here at 3am.
I apologise for my rude and crude comments.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

There was some comment made by the Persona 5 director about him being suprised that the game was so popular overseas. He added that he's curious about how the game would be received in the West.

So there is hope that this kind of information may be sent back to the JP HQ if enough people make their voices heard. Doesn't an Atlus USA PR person lurk GAF? Or was it XSEED?

Since they're totally going to keep the popularity of the IP in the West in mind, it'd be nice if they had some information about what people disliked about the game.

There was definitely an XSEED person, though I haven't seen her post in a while.

I'm not aware of any Atlus posters, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are some. The question is whether they have the influence to communicate our feedback to Atlus Japan.

At present, I feel the best is to communicate to Atlus USA as much as possible. Given their handling of the streaming issue, their influence is probably limited at best, but I don't see much alternative for most of us

 

[duckroll]

So there is hope that this kind of information may be sent back to the JP HQ if enough people make their voices heard. Doesn't an Atlus USA PR person lurk GAF?

John Hardin posts on NeoGAF yeah, he was formally the PR Manager for Atlus USA. But he left earlier this year and has joined NCSoft.

 

[TrutaS]

As a gay guy, this saddens me actively when I am playing. I simply ignore the romantic side of the game entirely and focus in everything else - otherwise it actually kind of hurts me. I saw that token gay couple in the sinful part of tokyo and just wanted to skip through as quick as possible. Sinilarly I avoid yusuke because I hate the reactions I'm supposed to have (even the blunt dialogue options).

So, that is definitely the worst part of the game for me.

 

[TheSun]

Well shit, I was wondering when we would get the silly folk in here.

Now that I think about it, if this was going to be global product, then they should be a teeny bit aware of the potential reception overseas.

Unless they really give no shits.

 

[snow in jamaica]

Did anyone else feel like these issues in the series, as well as the issues with women, were rarely more than a footnote (if they came up at all) until P5 started catching heat? P4 fever was insane.

 

[Wesley-Sigma]

A friend of mine brought this to my attention a while back ago -- I was wondering when GAF would pick up on it.

 

[Opa-Pa]

Did anyone else feel like these issues in the series, as well as the issues with women, were rarely more than a footnote (if they came up at all) until P5 started catching heat? P4 fever was insane.

Absolutely.

I think it's due to many factors that make sense though. Progressive movements becoming more and more popular in recent years, P5 being the series biggest launch yet, etc. However, yeah, P3 and 4 were incredibly nasty too.

And thankfully people are starting to realize that "bro it's anime" and "Japan is different man, you're being ignorant" are fucking stupid arguments. Well, some people anyway.

 

[Haly]

Did anyone else feel like these issues in the series, as well as the issues with women, were rarely more than a footnote (if they came up at all) until P5 started catching heat? P4 fever was insane.

Persona 4 was 10 years ago, a lot has changed since then.

I would say the biggest factors were, gay marriage under Obama, GamerGate, and Trump in 2017. There's been an awakening of sorts. P4 would probably get a lot of flak if it came out today.

 

[Kinsei]

Did anyone else feel like these issues in the series, as well as the issues with women, were rarely more than a footnote (if they came up at all) until P5 started catching heat? P4 fever was insane.

It's been nearly a decade since 4 came out. The gaming community has matured a bit since then.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Did anyone else feel like these issues in the series, as well as the issues with women, were rarely more than a footnote (if they came up at all) until P5 started catching heat? P4 fever was insane.

Conversations about social issues in games have only become more prominent in comparison to when Persona 4 was released. There's a lot of shit from a decade ago that simply wouldn't fly nowadays.

 

[GasProblem]

This kind of makes me want to sell the game. I just finished the 2nd palace. But there are plenty of other games I want to play and could buy with that money.

 

[Opa-Pa]

It's been nearly a decade since 4 came out. The gaming community has matured a bit since then.

It's still interesting that Golden only came out 5 years ago, and that's what skyrocketed P4's popularity though. Game barely received any flak still.

 

[RalchAC]

Did anyone else feel like these issues in the series, as well as the issues with women, were rarely more than a footnote (if they came up at all) until P5 started catching heat? P4 fever was insane.

There have been talks about how Kanji and/or Naoto were a problem for a long time. The "Babe hunt" has been brought a bunch of times too.

But there is much more people that know nothing about the series and probably know little about anime playing the game, and some problems that previous players didn't brought are being posted.

I mean, being a One Piece fan and all, whenever I look at somebody doing what Persona 5 does with the gay stereotype I'm more like "this shit again?" and creating a New Thread doesn't even come to my mind. Shame on me, of course.

Most of the time those people are right, eventhough there are some times when I feel certain stuff is overblown (this is not one of those cases though). But I usually don't complain because I get that's a perfectly reasonable perspective and it's kind of fresh seeing what people with different backgrounds think about some anime tropes.

Edit: Little question about the "gay panic" line from Yosuke. It's totally homophobic, I agree. Would you people say the problem is the line itself or the fact that the game doesn't allow you to make him feel bad for what he said?

 

[snow in jamaica]

Persona 4 was 10 years ago, a lot has changed since then.

I would say the biggest factors were, gay marriage under Obama, GamerGate, and Trump in 2017. There's been an awakening of sorts. P4 would probably get a lot of flak if it came out today.

The last few years have still had a lot of P4 hype. Even these P5 issues were kept in the dark until English reviews were out.

Little question about the "gay panic" line from Yosuke. It's totally homophobic, I agree. Would you guys say the problem is the line itself or the fact that the game doesn't allow you to make him feel bad for what he said?

It's the presentation. You can't speak up to Yosuke, he's meant to be an endearing goofball, and according to Soejima himself he's intended to speak what the player is "undoubtedly" thinking.

 

[sneas78]

I'm not sure what the problem is.. OP. Did it not come out as humor to you? I mean I have heard worse in comedy. A game, a comedy show etc.. it's all intertainment. No?

 

[Shaanyboi]

Edit: Little question about the "gay panic" line from Yosuke. It's totally homophobic, I agree. Would you people say the problem is the line itself or the fact that the game doesn't allow you to make him feel bad for what he said?

If the game had any intention of challenging Yosuke's beliefs, maybe forcing him to grow as a person over time, it may have been accepted. Clumsy perhaps, but maybe a good heart behind its intentions.

As is, Yosuke is a sack of shit, and the game seems to have no problem with it. It instead just goes "Nooo, it's funny! Now for our next joke, these teenage boys are going to unsuspectingly sneak into the girls' hotel room in the middle of the night with the intention of having sex with them!"

I'm not sure what the problem is.. OP. Did it not come out as humor to you? I mean I have heard worse in comedy. A game, a comedy show etc.. it's all intertainment. No?

Jesus fucking christ...

 

[Tark]

I'm not bothered. I enjoy stereotyped humour like this