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[kiryogi]

And it begins. Spoilers are starting to run a muck about midgame/finale. Be careful folks! There's a nicely marked topic on Gamefaqs, but I can't say much for anywhere else.

 

[kayos90]

Omg. It's scary how this game already has crazy amount of spoilers. I mean, there were spoilers for when Graces first came out for the wii, but this.... wow...

 

[Zafir]

How have so many people even got that far? I thought it came out next week?

I could understand reviewers copies maybe, but not retail. Then again, I'm not really that knowledgable regarding release dates in Japan.

I don't think spoilers will matter for me. I'll probably forget them by the time we get an english release, lol...

 

[Dark Schala]

Lovely. I wonder how long I'll be able to avoid spoilers in the coming weeks while I'm waiting for my game (I really should've chosen express shipping -_-). Sucks.

I wasn't able to avoid the Graces spoilers at all. Given how many people seem to be importing Xillia, I doubt I'll be able to avoid the spoilers for this one.

 

[CruxisMana]

I read that in Tales of Vesperia

Spoiler

Duke was Yuri's brother

and so, after going on an insane blackout until the game was released in Europe a year later, didn't find out it wasn't true until the very end of the game at which point I was almost disappointed that I hadn't known a real endgame spoiler and had expected it to be revealed every time they were together on screen.

:lol

 

[Aeana]

Lovely. I wonder how long I'll be able to avoid spoilers in the coming weeks while I'm waiting for my game (I really should've chosen express shipping -_-). Sucks.

I wasn't able to avoid the Graces spoilers at all. Given how many people seem to be importing Xillia, I doubt I'll be able to avoid the spoilers for this one.

You should have glanced at the Xenoblade thread. Poor RPGCrazied got cheap shipping and I think he is about to commit suicide because he still doesn't have his game yet. The perils of cheap shipping!

It might not be too late to change the method, depending on where you ordered from.

 

[kayos90]

Lovely. I wonder how long I'll be able to avoid spoilers in the coming weeks while I'm waiting for my game (I really should've chosen express shipping -_-). Sucks.

I wasn't able to avoid the Graces spoilers at all. Given how many people seem to be importing Xillia, I doubt I'll be able to avoid the spoilers for this one.

Honestly, Grace's story was so lackluster it wasn't even worth it to be spoiled. The points about the story that stood out were the theme and the character development. That's it.

 

[Seven Force]

How have so many people even got that far? I thought it came out next week?

I could understand reviewers copies maybe, but not retail. Then again, I'm not really that knowledgable regarding release dates in Japan.

I don't think spoilers will matter for me. I'll probably forget them by the time we get an english release, lol...

Guidebook leaked, apparently.

 

[Aeana]

Honestly, Grace's story was so lackluster it wasn't even worth it to be spoiled. The points about the story that stood out were the theme and the character development. That's it.

Graces's story summarized: MAMORU

 

[Datschge]

How have so many people even got that far? I thought it came out next week?

As far as I can understand (which may be totally off) the game will also be released in Korea, but it's still in Japanese so it comes together with some guide explaining everything in Korean. And that's what was leaked.

 

[Aeana]

As far as I can understand (which may be totally off) the game will also be released in Korea, but it's still in Japanese so it comes together with some guide explaining everything in Korean. And that's what was leaked.

Oh, that would have been cool to have. Now I wish I knew about that.

 

[kayos90]

Oh, that would have been cool to have. Now I wish I knew about that.

Wait, there's an actual korean edition coming out with a guidebook like graces f? FUUUUU. I would've gotten that instead of the asian version then. Ugh. I double checked to make sure there wasn't a KR version. ARGGGG. Too late...

 

[Zafir]

Guidebook leaked, apparently.

As far as I can understand (which may be totally off) the game will also be released in Korea, but it's still in Japanese so it comes together with some guide explaining everything in Korean. And that's what was leaked.

Ah, that would explain it.

I read that in Tales of Vesperia

Spoiler

Duke was Yuri's brother

and so, after going on an insane blackout until the game was released in Europe a year later, didn't find out it wasn't true until the very end of the game at which point I was almost disappointed that I hadn't known a real endgame spoiler and had expected it to be revealed every time they were together on screen.

:lol

I remember that wait. Really annoyed me, infact it pissed me off so much that I stopped browsing any tales of boards for a good while. Probably a good thing really since it meant I didn't see any spoilers at all.

 

[Rpgmonkey]

The first thing "Team Symphonia" did was throw out LMBS out of the window. In Symphonia enemies were allowed to "free run" while players were stuck to the straight line between the player and the target. To "fix" this LMBS was broken even more in Abyss by allowing the player to free run as well. Why is free run an issue within LMBS? Free run ignores the target. The player is allowed to move the character into positions where the target is no longer in front, essentially taking away responsive offense and defense actions toward the target from the player. Abyss also showed the broken nature of free run if its speed is not balance to the enemies attacks (especially slow magic attacks). It's only the latter problem they "fixed". The internal inconsistency of having non-linear motions in LMBS is still there, apparently even in Xillia (if around step is indeed not included at all).

I think Free Run would be an awesome addition to Tales if Team Symphonia did the most obvious thing they still haven't really done for some reason, and made positioning matter a lot more than it does (maybe even allow interaction with things on the battlefield). The main thing they should be doing is changing the effects of your attacks based on what part of your target you attack, and where you're attacking from. Right now it has very little relation to the LMBS system in terms of offense, it's a pretty slow and bland form of defense, and there's never any kind of tradeoff for using it, so it doesn't really have any depth to it.

They kinda did it in Vesperia through that Secret Mission system and Abyss with the FOF system, but it looks like they were just one-off ideas they threw in the game for no particular reason, and not something they were experimenting with so they can put it in their next games in a more refined form to make their combat system smoother and more dynamic. Team Destiny is usually pretty good about keeping the core concept of their one-off ideas (such as the gradual move away from TP with their PS2 games, even if Destiny 2's 100 TP+SP or Rebirth's FG weren't brought back exactly), or replacing them with something just as good or better.

And it begins. Spoilers are starting to run a muck about midgame/finale. Be careful folks! There's a nicely marked topic on Gamefaqs, but I can't say much for anywhere else.

Damn, that was fast.

It doesn't sound like it's all that great either. Typical Tales stuff. :/

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I think we should ban any spoilers just for this thread until the game comes out. GameFAQs already has a spoiler thread and I think that's enough.

I think it would be good if we could have a place to discuss the game without these spoilers cropping up before the game is even released.

In the Xenoblade thread a few people have already inconsiderately posted spoilers about the game, fortunately they have been removed after some justified rage, I would hate to see the same thing happen in this thread.

 

[Dark Schala]

You should have glanced at the Xenoblade thread. Poor RPGCrazied got cheap shipping and I think he is about to commit suicide because he still doesn't have his game yet. The perils of cheap shipping!

It might not be too late to change the method, depending on where you ordered from.

He still hasn't gotten it yet? I ordered Xenoblade way later, so I understand mine taking a while to get through Canadian customs, but oh my...

It isn't too late (ordered from P-A), but I think I can wait. I really have to stick to my September budget and try not to go overboard. I just have to avoid reading the spoiler text in here and on GameFAQs should I decide to go over there.

Graces's story summarized: MAMORU

Pretty much! I don't think Xillia's narrative will be as lacklustre... I hope it isn't, at least.

 

[kayos90]

He still hasn't gotten it yet? I ordered Xenoblade way later, so I understand mine taking a while to get through Canadian customs, but oh my...

It isn't too late (ordered from P-A), but I think I can wait. I really have to stick to my September budget and try not to go overboard. I just have to avoid reading the spoiler text in here and on GameFAQs should I decide to go over there.


Pretty much! I don't think Xillia's narrative will be as lacklustre... I hope it isn't, at least.

Graces was a couple hours shorter as well. Honestly, I think Vesperia had the best overall theme out of all the Tales games.

 

[Datschge]

I should probably stop going by machine translations, but the guide seems VERY thorough indeed (Korean product PR, should be spoiler free).

I think Free Run would be an awesome addition to Tales if Team Symphonia did the most obvious thing they still haven't really done for some reason, and made positioning matter a lot more than it does (maybe even allow interaction with things on the battlefield). The main thing they should be doing is changing the effects of your attacks based on what part of your target you attack, and where you're attacking from. Right now it has very little relation to the LMBS system in terms of offense, it's a pretty slow and bland form of defense, and there's never any kind of tradeoff for using it, so it doesn't really have any depth to it.

Exactly. I fully expect TD to one up TS once again with their next game, being the first taking player to target positioning as well as environmental interaction (made possible through seamless battles) into consideration. Or something like that.

That FujiTV video of the battles makes it look faster than Vesperia which is at least something. Free run still is completely jarring though.

 

[Bay Maximus]

Holy hell at that Famitsu score. All this ToX talk has me feeling so.....enthusiastic.

 

[Aeana]

I want that Korean guide.

 

[Dark Schala]

Graces was a couple hours shorter as well. Honestly, I think Vesperia had the best overall theme out of all the Tales games.

Same. I liked Vesperia's narrative and theme very much... perhaps the best out of all the Tales games. Graces' plot and theme were underwhelming in comparison, but the battle system/abilities/titles system more than made up for it.

I should probably stop going by machine translations, but the guide seems VERY thorough indeed (Korean product PR, should be spoiler free).

Maybe I should be happy that I don't understand a lick of Korean outside of honorifics and pronouns. -_-

 

[kayos90]

I want that Korean guide.

I'm trying to get my aunt who lives in Korea to switch orders so I can get the KR version of the game. If I get it, I'll upload scans when I can. The crappy thing is that the order timeframe is between Sept 2 - Sept 5. That's a not a lot of time. If everything goes well, I'll get the KR version of the game instead of the Asian version.

 

[kiryogi]

While Graces story isn't anything special, it is however serviceable and inoffensive. While previous TD titles really made my head hurt. I give credit to Team Symphonia on their presentation and emphasis on story though.

from what I've seen so far on Xillia seems a lot more promising than Vesperia was. Honestly, after the halfway point in Vesperia, the entire thing jumps shark for the absolute worse.

 

[Seven Force]

Was Rebirth's story really that bad? I've always heard that the battle system and the story are polar opposites, quality wise.

 

[kiryogi]

Was Rebirth's story really that bad? I've always heard that the battle system and the story are polar opposites, quality wise.

If you thought that Symphonia's racism was bad.....

Also if I had to sum up Rebirth...CLAAAAAAAAAAIREEEEE!

 

[Dark Schala]

Was Rebirth's story really that bad? I've always heard that the battle system and the story are polar opposites, quality wise.

Rebirth Plot Spoilers:

Spoiler

The bad guy puts a spell on the world to make everyone racist.

The overarching plot is pretty bad overall, though. But Kuuuuurrrrreaaaaaaaa (plot spoilers in the linked video) is pretty funny. The battle system is awesome; one of my favourite battle systems next to Graces'.

 

[klee123]

While Graces story isn't anything special, it is however serviceable and inoffensive. While previous TD titles really made my head hurt. I give credit to Team Symphonia on their presentation and emphasis on story though.

from what I've seen so far on Xillia seems a lot more promising than Vesperia was. Honestly, after the halfway point in Vesperia, the entire thing jumps shark for the absolute worse.

I agree, Vesperia started off so well to the point where I thought it would be be better than abyss.

For me Abyss still holds the crown for the best story in the tales series.

 

[kiryogi]

I agree, Vesperia started off so well to the point where I thought it would be be better than abyss.

For me Abyss still holds the crown for the best story in the tales series.

Yup, I'm in the same boat about Abyss. Besides the trainwreck plot in Vesperia, the only worthwhile characters were Yuri (one of jrpgs finest protagonists) and Judy. Rita was somewhat ok, rest were pretty bland and uninteresting otherwise.

 

[Lissar]

Graces's story summarized: MAMORU

Had to laugh at this. I swear, by the end of the game I wanted to hit something every time he said that word. Also, I skipped all dialogue in the final few scenes because I couldn't be bothered anymore. I've never done that for any other game.

Battle system was awesome, of course.


So close to release! Unfortunately I very likely have to go visit a friend next week, so I might not get to play until later. Maybe I can convince her to visit me instead.

 

[Shouta]

Was Rebirth's story really that bad? I've always heard that the battle system and the story are polar opposites, quality wise.

Yes, it's bad. Only one that comes close to being bad as to me personally is Abyss.

The best tales game from an overall perspective, i.e. story and combat, is still Tales of Destiny Director's Cut to me.

Graces' story has a few dumb points but the ending is pretty sweet (haven't played F yet). It was a rather unexpected ending considering most games with a similar confrontation.

 

[kayos90]

Yes, it's bad. Only one that comes close to being bad as to me personally is Abyss.

The best tales game from an overall perspective, i.e. story and combat, is still Tales of Destiny Director's Cut to me.

Graces' story has a few dumb points but the ending is pretty sweet (haven't played F yet). It was a rather unexpected ending considering most games with a similar confrontation.

I really enjoyed the theme in Abyss. While there were many annoying points I thought the theme behind the game was phenomenal. Same with Vesperia. Honestly, after Zaude, the game just goes down hill.

 

[kiryogi]

I really enjoyed the theme in Abyss. While there were many annoying points I thought the theme behind the game was phenomenal. Same with Vesperia. Honestly, after Zaude, the game just goes down hill.

Id say Shouta is pretty alone on that opinion. He did say personally! But really, he likes Legendia too. Can't trust that.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I liked all the Team Symphonia games.

 

[Dead Prince]

I liked all the Team Symphonia games.

Well that's Shocking.

 

[Shouta]

I really enjoyed the theme in Abyss. While there were many annoying points I thought the theme behind the game was phenomenal. Same with Vesperia. Honestly, after Zaude, the game just goes down hill.

Abyss' theme and general story is fine but I think that some of the character writing is pretty damn awful. It's a bit of the opposite of Rebirth where the story and theme is atrocious but the characters are not bad at all individually.

The first half and how the characters interact with Luke makes me cringe and even angry. Then when the big event for Luke's character happens, they just ridiculous. It actually makes me want to be into the game and tell them how asshole they were. I can't really enjoy a game if the characters piss me off with how moronic they are.

I'll take Legendia over Abyss any time, the story isn't great and some of the design choices are stupid as hell but I like the characters and I had a lot more fun with the battle system.

 

[kiryogi]

Abyss' theme and general story is fine but I think that some of the character writing is pretty damn awful. It's a bit of the opposite of Rebirth where the story and theme is atrocious but the characters are not bad at all individually.

The first half and how the characters interact with Luke makes me cringe and even angry. Then when the big event for Luke's character happens, they just ridiculous. It actually makes me want to be into the game and tell them how asshole they were. I can't really enjoy a game if the characters piss me off with how moronic they are.

I'll take Legendia over Abyss any time, the story isn't great and some of the design choices are stupid as hell but I like the characters and I had a lot more fun with the battle system.

Some? The entire design was godawful for Legendia. The only saving graces for Legendia were the story/chars and the music. The gameplay and especially the battle system was atrocious.

 

[kayos90]

Abyss' theme and general story is fine but I think that some of the character writing is pretty damn awful. It's a bit of the opposite of Rebirth where the story and theme is atrocious but the characters are not bad at all individually.

The first half and how the characters interact with Luke makes me cringe and even angry. Then when the big event for Luke's character happens, they just ridiculous. It actually makes me want to be into the game and tell them how asshole they were. I can't really enjoy a game if the characters piss me off with how moronic they are.

I'll take Legendia over Abyss any time, the story isn't great and some of the design choices are stupid as hell but I like the characters and I had a lot more fun with the battle system.

I'll definitely agree that the characters didn't act realistically. Not only this but the translating didn't help either. However, I think the best part of the story is when Luke begins to change and gets over his initial sobfest. After that Luke really shines as an actual character. You are very right in that the first half was sort of mediocre. However, I think JRPGs, Tales specifically, still follow a specific archetype for their stories and games. As a result I don't blame them. The story told in WRPGs and JRPGs is completely different. I'd like to think of it as two different genres if they were books.

 

[AlphaDragoon]

The first half and how the characters interact with Luke makes me cringe and even angry. Then when the big event for Luke's character happens, they just ridiculous. It actually makes me want to be into the game and tell them how asshole they were. I can't really enjoy a game if the characters piss me off with how moronic they are.

No high fives. RESPEK KNUCKLES.

Anyway, I do hope that Xillia's story is good. I loved Abyss's plot outside of the above mentioned retardation. Vesperia's started out great and then kinda plummeted.

 

[Shouta]

Some? The entire design was godawful for Legendia. The only saving graces for Legendia were the story/chars and the music. The gameplay and especially the battle system was atrocious.

I don't think you understand what bad design is.

Legendia's battle system isn't bad, it was simply boring. No extra systems, no system evolution, etc. It doesn't have anything that makes it unique compared to other contemporary Tales games of the time. It plays like a slightly prettier and updated version of the battle system from Phantasia, Orig Destiny, or Eternia.

Bad design would be, funnily enough, Abyss' FOF. Concept is great but you can't use it because you have no method of drawing enemies to you manually and the game uses free run to boot. Sure, you could get use of it sometimes but that was entirely accidental or so few and far between. So what's the point of having it in the game if you can't use it regularly and effectively?

This of course could be remedied if they didn't make it stupid circles on the ground and changed it to a charge system or something on the character instead but oh well.

Legendia actually has one part of its battle system that is really well designed and that's the character Artes. They nailed every character in the game and they all had a great variety to boot. Legendia also nails the combo fun of Tales games pretty well too. It doesn't satisfy my itch quite as good as Team Destiny games but it sure beats out Team Symphonia games most of the time.

I'll definitely agree that the characters didn't act realistically. Not only this but the translating didn't help either. However, I think the best part of the story is when Luke begins to change and gets over his initial sobfest. After that Luke really shines as an actual character. You are very right in that the first half was sort of mediocre. However, I think JRPGs, Tales specifically, still follow a specific archetype for their stories and games. As a result I don't blame them. The story told in WRPGs and JRPGs is completely different. I'd like to think of it as two different genres if they were books.

The change over isn't bad and it works well enough in the second half. The problem is that the first half and the second half of his story don't match up nearly as well. His story is a pretty specific type and one that works incredibly well most of the time so it amazed me that they botched it. If they changed the interactions some in that first half, I think Luke's journey would be pretty damn good.

 

[Dark Schala]

Abyss' theme and general story is fine but I think that some of the character writing is pretty damn awful. It's a bit of the opposite of Rebirth where the story and theme is atrocious but the characters are not bad at all individually.

The first half and how the characters interact with Luke makes me cringe and even angry. Then when the big event for Luke's character happens, they just ridiculous. It actually makes me want to be into the game and tell them how asshole they were. I can't really enjoy a game if the characters piss me off with how moronic they are.

I'll take Legendia over Abyss any time, the story isn't great and some of the design choices are stupid as hell but I like the characters and I had a lot more fun with the battle system.

While I like Abyss's scenario for the most part, I have to agree with you here. The character interaction stuff was pretty out-there, and the first half of the game ended up being rather lacklustre for me as a result.

Also, I hope Jude plays like a better pugilist than Senel (and I would not be surprised if he took some of Senel's Artes/Eres). I might just start with Jude just to see how he plays and what his skills are.

 

[squall23]

I'm going to be that guy and say that Destiny > Vesperia >= Abyss.

 

[kiryogi]

Alright enough off railing with the Abyss and Legendia. Bottom line is Abyss > Legendia for most, and the whole Legendia defense force has gone on and on. We don't need that in here, take it to the Legendia topic or something.

 

[Shouta]

If Jude was as good a MA fighter as Senel was in Legendia, we'll be in for a treat. Legendia nails their character's artes so well it's ridiculous. Luke feels mega-boring in comparison.

And yes, Destiny Remake is definitely better than Vesperia or Abyss.

 

[rykomatsu]

Anyone planning on doing a live stream? If not, i coul potentially set one up IF my copy ships this week...

 

[Seven Force]

Rebirth Plot Spoilers:

Spoiler

The bad guy puts a spell on the world to make everyone racist.

Seriously? I know Tales games aren't shining examples of great JRPG stories, but damn... :lol

The first half and how the characters interact with Luke makes me cringe and even angry. Then when the big event for Luke's character happens, they just ridiculous. It actually makes me want to be into the game and tell them how asshole they were.

Abyss is one of my personal favorites, but yeah... most of the cast was pretty damn hypocritical.

 

[ULTROS!]

I liked Abyss but Luke on the first half of the story was cringeworthy... Then the rest of the cast became cringeworthy (except for Luke) at the other half in my opinion.

 

[Aeana]

Seriously? I know Tales games aren't shining examples of great JRPG stories, but damn... :lol


Abyss is one of my personal favorites, but yeah... most of the cast was pretty damn hypocritical.

Rebirth has what I consider to be the worst story I've seen in an RPG. It's just nuts.

 

[Rpgmonkey]

Exactly. I fully expect TD to one up TS once again with their next game, being the first taking player to target positioning as well as environmental interaction (made possible through seamless battles) into consideration. Or something like that.

It would be pretty interesting if/when they pull that off.

A Tales game that uses seamless battles to get rid of isolated battlefields and create more dynamic encounters, and emphasizes positioning and environmental interaction would be a pretty drastic change. Provided things like CC and Around Step stay, when I think of a Tales game like that it reminds me of fast-paced action games like Bayonetta or Kingdom Hearts (except with the traditional parts of Tales combat integrated), whereas current Tales games feel more like a 2D/3D fighter.

 

[Dead Prince]

Does play-asia ship out early or on release date?

 

[Nix]

It would be pretty interesting if/when they pull that off.

A Tales game that uses seamless battles to get rid of isolated battlefields and create more dynamic encounters, and emphasizes positioning and environmental interaction would be a pretty drastic change. Provided things like CC and Around Step stay, when I think of a Tales game like that it reminds me of fast-paced action games like Bayonetta or Kingdom Hearts (except with the traditional parts of Tales combat integrated), whereas current Tales games feel more like a 2D/3D fighter.

How the hell would that even work without first completely destroying the current overworld dynamic. If you wanted it to be like that, then how would CC/TP be implemented?

Would it be like Xenoblade, or FFXII? I do admit that would be pretty awesome if it comes to fruition, but the trade-off for that would be steep. I'm not one to say heresay, and etc, but I think if they're going to go in that direction, the length of the game we'll get, will ultimately be very paltry. This won't be another FFXII (as much as I salivate at the prospect) most likely because of the budget contraints, and hey, the usual formula is pretty good already.

But yeah, okay, if it's TD doing that I can understand. Let TS do the regular Tales and TD try this out. Should be interesting.