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[Snacks the sober sea lion]

So where exactly in this fucking mess am I supposed to find a server that has vanilla rules and a map rotation? Variety is dead, communities are dead, now Valve servers are treated like we're in a console game from 2009.

"Abandon" in TF2. In fucking casual matches. Go to hell, Valve. Again.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I can't imagine Quick Play + Valve servers will be gone for long. This is the largest outrage against an update I've ever seen.

Also the servers are still there and the Quickplay Menu is still there, just neither can be accessed. It seems like they knew this was a gamble, and kept the old system around just in case. I hope at least.

 

[Guess Who]

The problem isn't that there's an abandon penalty in Casual matchmaking mode. The problem is there's no obvious mode that doesn't have an abandon penalty, that provides the kind of drop-in/drop-out pub server experience you used to be able to get, without digging through the server browser yourself.

Casual matchmaking is (mostly) pretty good for what it's trying to be, the problem is that it shouldn't have outright replaced quick play. It's a different thing.

 

[SirPinkyNose]

Overwatch doesn't have server browser and I don't see anyone complained about it.

Spoiler

I do, but I don't see anybody else.

 

[HyperCubed4]

I never understood the complains about TF2 losing its identity or whatever after many updates, the classes have never been hard to distinguish with one another despite the many aesthetic items and the only class that really changed dramatically from its core design due to the new weapons was demoman to demoknight. I can definitely see the appeal of playing vanilla TF2, but I just don't understand how anyone thinks the game is a mess because of that.

What made the game a mess was just people conflicting on the same server over just taunting and doing silly shit or just actually playing the objective.

I could do this with every class, but I'm just going to do it for the Scout.

Alternate primary weapons

• Knocks people back at close range + potential third jump
• Multiple jumps
• Increases speed
• Increased damage from behind

Alternate secondary weapons

• Projectile that grants potential temporary heal with damage done
• Invulnerable for a few seconds
• Mini-crits for a few seconds + speed boost
• Jumps higher, bullets do more damage
• Heal self with damage done

Alternate melee weapons

• More damage to targets on fire
• Projectile that causes stun
• Projectile that causes bleed
• Additional jump
• Enemy takes mini-crits until they die

I'm missing some weapons, I'm sure. With stock weapons, the plan was "don't get too close" or "play Engineer". Now the Scout has a weapon for a bunch of different situations. Which would be fine, but so does every other class.

 

[Fandangox]

The problem isn't that there's an abandon penalty in Casual matchmaking mode. The problem is there's no obvious mode that doesn't have an abandon penalty, that provides the kind of drop-in/drop-out pub server experience you used to be able to get, without digging through the server browser yourself.

Casual matchmaking is (mostly) pretty good for what it's trying to be, the problem is that it shouldn't have outright replaced quick play. It's a different thing.

Yeah this is mostly how I feel about it.

 

[Guess Who]

I could do this with every class, but I'm just going to do it for the Scout.

Alternate primary weapons

• Knocks people back at close range + potential third jump
• Multiple jumps
• Increases speed
• Increased damage from behind

Alternate secondary weapons

• Projectile that grants potential temporary heal with damage done
• Invulnerable for a few seconds
• Mini-crits for a few seconds + speed boost
• Jumps higher, bullets do more damage
• Heal self with damage done

Alternate melee weapons

• More damage to targets on fire
• Projectile that causes stun
• Projectile that causes bleed
• Additional jump
• Enemy takes mini-crits until they die

I'm missing some weapons, I'm sure. With stock weapons, the plan was "don't get too close" or "play Engineer". Now the Scout has a weapon for a bunch of different situations. Which would be fine, but so does every other class.

I mean, none of what you listed really changes the gameplan against a scout. You still don't want them to get too close. They're still near-useless against a proper engie defense.

 

[Fandangox]

I could do this with every class, but I'm just going to do it for the Scout.

Alternate primary weapons

• Knocks people back at close range + potential third jump
• Multiple jumps
• Increases speed
• Increased damage from behind

Alternate secondary weapons

• Projectile that grants potential temporary heal with damage done
• Invulnerable for a few seconds
• Mini-crits for a few seconds + speed boost
• Jumps higher, bullets do more damage
• Heal self with damage done

Alternate melee weapons

• More damage to targets on fire
• Projectile that causes stun
• Projectile that causes bleed
• Additional jump
• Enemy takes mini-crits until they die

I'm missing some weapons, I'm sure. With stock weapons, the plan was "don't get too close" or "play Engineer". Now the Scout has a weapon for a bunch of different situations. Which would be fine, but so does every other class.

That doesn't really change the core design of the scout nor how one should approach a Scout. Like I said. The one that's TRULY pretty much a different "class" was demoknight setup. It completely changed the way the class is fought and used.

 

[hans_castorp]

Did people really used Quick Play?
It was a laggy mess that took forever to join last time I tried.

The server list is much more convenient. You can filter the results, look for specifics tags or simply jump to to a server you are familiar with.

 

[Yeef]

Wuickplay would usually find a game in like 5 seconds or less for me. I don't mind using the server browser, but quickplay was great for joining a game for like 10 minutes and then bailing.

 

[OminoMichelin]

Wuickplay would usually find a game in like 5 seconds or less for me. I don't mind using the server browser, but quickplay was great for joining a game for like 10 minutes and then bailing.

For me it's the opposite, quickplay would always take ages to find me a game and when it did I would often end up in an empty server. For me it's server browser all the way.

Edit: same story with "casual play", it seems. after a few minutes of trying, I didn't find a single game to join.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

You didn't actually use the quickplay, you could filter out Valve servers by mode and then look through them with the server browser. Now you can't even look through them and pick what map you want to play because Valve servers are no longer "casual" play, they're just an unranked version of ranked mode.

 

[TheSeks]

lol Quick Play still isn't working. GG Valve. That beta for nada.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

For me it's the opposite, quickplay would always take ages to find me a game and when it did I would often end up in an empty server. For me it's server browser all the way.

Edit: same story with "casual play", it seems. after a few minutes of trying, I didn't find a single game to join.

The fastest way to use quick play was to find the mode you wanted, and then click the show servers button and just pick one with good ping on the map you wanted. I never used the random diet matchmaking quick play used to have, it was too slow. But as a clean, organized and fast loading server browser it was fantastic.

 

[Randdalf]

Honestly, I don't really mind that quickplay is gone, as long as they find a way to improve the queue times in casual mode. 12v12 stopwatch mode with everyone playing, nobody disconnecting, and somewhat matched skill levels, is so much fun. Felt like I was playing early days TF2 again, when people actually cared about teamwork. I think there are obviously issues with how it's been implemented, but this really is a great mode when ... when I find a game

 

[Slick Butter]

I don't play a lot of TF2, but this has me interested and I actually had fun playing on some pubs a couple of days ago. And I want to spite my friends who suddenly decided TF2 is really bad because Overwatch came out.

Anyways, since there are no random crits in comp, what is done about weapons whose downside is "no random crits"?

 

[Yeef]

I don't play a lot of TF2, but this has me interested and I actually had fun playing on some pubs a couple of days ago. And I want to spite my friends who suddenly decided TF2 is really bad because Overwatch came out.

Anyways, since there are no random crits in comp, what is done about weapons whose downside is "no random crits"?

They get better.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

It wasn't noted, but the Loch-n-Load has new firing sounds, so it doesn't share the Grenade Launcher's sounds anymore.

 

[Guess Who]

Honestly, I don't really mind that quickplay is gone, as long as they find a way to improve the queue times in casual mode. 12v12 stopwatch mode with everyone playing, nobody disconnecting, and somewhat matched skill levels, is so much fun. Felt like I was playing early days TF2 again, when people actually cared about teamwork. I think there are obviously issues with how it's been implemented, but this really is a great mode when ... when I find a game

Same. Stopwatch mode for PL and A/D CP is great.

 

[commissar]

So where exactly in this fucking mess am I supposed to find a server that has vanilla rules and a map rotation? Variety is dead, communities are dead, now Valve servers are treated like we're in a console game from 2009.

A reminder you can right-click servers to add them to favourites or blacklist them. So just sort the whole list by game/map/tags and use shift-select to mass block the bad servers.

Takes like a minute to do and you'll have a good list of only the servers you want :]

 

[Fandangox]

Anyways, since there are no random crits in comp, what is done about weapons whose downside is "no random crits"?

wow wait how did I miss this in the patch notes and comp description

its happening

 

[Zia]

So... why is the new matchmaking a good thing? TF2 is my gaming group's default specifically because we can casually hop in and out of matches. A penalty for leaving a casual server is baffling.

 

[Guess Who]

So... why is the new matchmaking a good thing? TF2 is my gaming group's default specifically because we can casually hop in and out of matches. A penalty for leaving a casual server is baffling.

It's good for people who want something more competitive than typical pub servers but less competitive than 6s.

It's bad because Valve killed their normal pub servers in favor of this, so you have to find a community server for your kind of game.

 

[Yeef]

I'm not big on minimode. It messes up my aim far more than I thought it would. Also, this update messed up all of my UI settings, so I'll have to get around to fixing them.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

A reminder you can right-click servers to add them to favourites or blacklist them. So just sort the whole list by game/map/tags and use shift-select to mass block the bad servers.

Takes like a minute to do and you'll have a good list of only the servers you want :]

Takes like a minute? What TF2 are you playing?

This clusterfuck of 24/7 and fast respawn servers that I already posted earlier is basically what TF2 has been for quite a while now. I've added dozens of servers to my favorites, all but one have died, turned into 24/7 servers, or devolved into custom game nonsense. Valve servers were pretty much the only refuge from the insanity, but now those don't even exist. Valve says you have to play the game their way.

 

[MUnited83]

So where exactly in this fucking mess am I supposed to find a server that has vanilla rules and a map rotation? Variety is dead, communities are dead, now Valve servers are treated like we're in a console game from 2009.

"Abandon" in TF2. In fucking casual matches. Go to hell, Valve. Again.

write "vanilla" on the tags?

 

[Guess Who]

A major part of why community servers have been in such a dire situation is precisely because Valve totally took over the entire market for vanilla, rotation-based servers. I think this is a problem that will correct itself in time as new servers pop up to fill the demand Valve servers left behind.

 

[Enco]

Hopefully Overwatch doesn't become a clusterfuck like TF2.

 

[Randdalf]

Hopefully Overwatch doesn't become a clusterfuck like TF2.

It's somewhat inevitable over the passage of time that a game like TF2 and Overwatch will bloat. More maps, more heroes, more modes, more cosmetics, more variety; these are the lifeblood of these games in major updates.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

write "vanilla" on the tags?

Yeah.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yeah.

If a server has RTD or insta-respawn it isn't a vanilla server lol

That's why those tags are basically useless.

 

[TheDinoman]

Calm down a bit folks, Valve's working on it.

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=22797

 

[Bluth54]

I had way more fun playing on casual matchmaking servers tonight then I ever had playing on Valve pubs.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Calm down a bit folks, Valve's working on it.

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=22797

Well that's nice. Hopefully they get the map selection stuff out quickly.

Other than queue times for some of the lesser played maps, this seems like it might end up actually being an improvement to what we used to have

 

[TheDinoman]

http://www.teamfortress.com/?tab=updates

Patch is up. The abandonment penalty has been removed from Casual Matchmaking.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Spy and Engineer can equip the Prinny sword.

lol, Spy just awkwardly slaps people with it, instead of stabbing them

 

[Guess Who]

I still think removing the abandon penalty is the wrong move, especially since games aren't being repopulated once people leave. If they can fix that then maybe it'd be okay.

 

[Bluth54]

I still think removing the abandon penalty is the wrong move, especially since games aren't being repopulated once people leave. If they can fix that then maybe it'd be okay.

Yeah I think Valve should do something to encourage people to stay.

 

[Guess Who]

Alternatively: make a 12v12 mode for comp matchmaking. I'd play the shit out of that.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Alternatively: make a 12v12 mode for comp matchmaking. I'd play the shit out of that.

12v12 game balance completely breaks when you get to the competitive level. 12 pubstars vs 12 pubstars can go back and forth (as you can see from the better community servers), but 12 comps vs 12 comps becomes such an incredible spam fest because players know where to shoot, how to shoot, and shoot together as a team.

 

[Guess Who]

12v12 game balance completely breaks when you get to the competitive level. 12 pubstars vs 12 pubstars can go back and forth (as you can see from the better community servers), but 12 comps vs 12 comps becomes such an incredible spam fest because players know where to shoot, how to shoot, and shoot together as a team.

Of course it does, it'd just be a way for them to have a 12v12 mode with no random crits, no weapon spread, and matchmaking with an abandon penalty.

Rank it separately from 6v6/Highlander if need be.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

how quick is the decay time on dropped mediguns?

I dropped one, came back to it after respawn (couldnt have been more than 15 seconds) and it went from 90 to 0 already.

 

[ashecitism]

Calm down a bit folks, Valve's working on it.

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=22797

We are not always as talkative as we perhaps should be, but we are listening.

no shit

 

[Yukinari]

I tried doing a casual match with a friend and it took over 30 minutes for it to get us into a game which was over in like 5 seconds cause our team was too good.

Oh and i never got a pass time beta pin, so thats wonderful.

 

[afternoon delight]

no shit

Yeah, it's always nice to see the re-emergence of "trying to be humble" Valve teams when they royally fuck up.

I tried some matches yesterday, the maps have a lot to be desired, super surprised there aren't custom options, totally neutered experience compared to just a month ago, really want 9v9 instead of 6v6 aka WHAT A CLUSTERFUCK. I thought people were exaggerating.

Gonna weather the storm in some favorite servers, as I usually do. I thought I wanted Matchmaking and wow, they're actually doing they're best to convince me I don't.

New UI looks lame too, man. Is this some B-team effort we don't know about?

 

[L00P]

after years of screwing around in public valve servers, playing with a group of people who actually cooperate to complete an objective is a breath of fresh air. Hope they fix the long wait in matchmaking soon

 

[Crayolan]

I hate casual matchmaking keeping a server going based on number of matches as opposed to time. If teams are unbalance and matches end in under a minute you end up waiting 10 minutes for a match only to be back to waiting a few minutes later.

At least let servers automatically move on to another map instead of just dying after 2 matches.

This just makes me want to never use anything but the server list again.

 

[ashecitism]

Yeah, it's always nice to see the re-emergence of "trying to be humble" Valve teams when they royally fuck up.

I tried some matches yesterday, the maps have a lot to be desired, super surprised there aren't custom options, totally neutered experience compared to just a month ago, really want 9v9 instead of 6v6 aka WHAT A CLUSTERFUCK. I thought people were exaggerating.

Gonna weather the storm in some favorite servers, as I usually do. I thought I wanted Matchmaking and wow, they're actually doing they're best to convince me I don't.

New UI looks lame too, man. Is this some B-team effort we don't know about?

Considering most things Valve has released these last years including game updates, steam features and HW have been half-baked at best, you shouldn't have expected better. This is the reality now. I can't remember their last fully realized, polished release. Maybe the Lab, but unfortunately that's not a wide reaching product.

 

[Guess Who]

After spending more time with it, there's definitely a couple of changes I can think of that would dramatically improve casual matchmaking. The most obvious ones - faster matching and more quickly refilling matches when players leave - are already in the works, but if I had to suggest other major changes:

1. Voting needs to come back.

In the event of hackers/cheaters/griefers, there really needs to be a way to votekick disruptive players. Additionally, an option to votescramble would be welcome if team sizes get uneven, as a way to solve player count disparities in cases where teams don't refill quickly enough.

2. Matched players should stick together through multiple maps.

There's no reason to force a re-match after every single round. You've already found a set of players that are interested in at least one of the same gamemodes as you, so it's pointless to refind them every single map. After a round, players should be dropped into a lobby where they can leave if they want to, teams have time to refill if players leave, and the next map can be voted on. This is how basically every other god damn FPS works, and it makes no sense why TF2 doesn't.

3. Incentivize players to stay through the whole match.

I'm not sure how this would work, honestly, other than an abandon penalty, but there should absolutely be a deterrent to ragequitting. TF2 is a team game (it's right in the name!) and five people ragequitting is a selfish move that fucks over your whole team - even if matchmaking worked faster at refilling slots, there will still be a lot of downtime which can cost a team a game and, more importantly, just be exceedingly unfun and frustrating for the teammates who are left.

 

[Princess Carl]

After spending more time with it, there's definitely a couple of changes I can think of that would dramatically improve casual matchmaking. The most obvious ones - faster matching and more quickly refilling matches when players leave - are already in the works, but if I had to suggest other major changes:

1. Voting needs to come back.

In the event of hackers/cheaters/griefers, there really needs to be a way to votekick disruptive players. Additionally, an option to votescramble would be welcome if team sizes get uneven, as a way to solve player count disparities in cases where teams don't refill quickly enough.

2. Matched players should stick together through multiple maps.

There's no reason to force a re-match after every single round. You've already found a set of players that are interested in at least one of the same gamemodes as you, so it's pointless to refind them every single map. After a round, players should be dropped into a lobby where they can leave if they want to, teams have time to refill if players leave, and the next map can be voted on. This is how basically every other god damn FPS works, and it makes no sense why TF2 doesn't.

3. Incentivize players to stay through the whole match.

I'm not sure how this would work, honestly, other than an abandon penalty, but there should absolutely be a deterrent to ragequitting. TF2 is a team game (it's right in the name!) and five people ragequitting is a selfish move that fucks over your whole team - even if matchmaking worked faster at refilling slots, there will still be a lot of downtime which can cost a team a game and, more importantly, just be exceedingly unfun and frustrating for the teammates who are left.

Kinda baffled how this wasn't done in the first place.