ArtistDude88
Member
Orellio said:
Well the last point is usually right outside a team's spawn, making it high risk to capture it. A fast cap seems fair trade for being 2 seconds from a team's spawn gate
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Team Fortress 2 |OT2| Free 2 Play Forever
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Well the last point is usually right outside a team's spawn, making it high risk to capture it. A fast cap seems fair trade for being 2 seconds from a team's spawn gate
MatthewB92
Member
New mouse so TF2 for me tonight
I do think there needs to be a mechanic to help break 5cp stalemates. Some sort of bonus like when the whole team gets crits when they capture the intel, but not quite as powerful.
Also, to be fair, the first round of that coldfront game was a roll. The second was a stalemate, but I think that's mainly because it seemed like about 2/3rd of the people on the server (on either team) were playing defense rather than pushing.
[Edit] Also, i am in the market for a new headset, so if anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears!
Also, to be fair, the first round of that coldfront game was a roll. The second was a stalemate, but I think that's mainly because it seemed like about 2/3rd of the people on the server (on either team) were playing defense rather than pushing.
[Edit] Also, i am in the market for a new headset, so if anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears!
Pun intended?
ArtistDude88 said:
I dunno, by comparison Gorge plays much better because the last point takes longer to cap (I realize it's 2-cp but still). By the time an offense gets to the last point on Well/Badlands/Granary the defense is already off balance and doesn't have time to properly set up at the last point and the 2 second cap time just exacerbates that. If a team gets the 2nd to last point on Well you might as well give up.
Orellio said:^^^ I use a Rock Band 1 mic held up by a wire hanger stand I crafted, counterbalanced by a jar of change
Basically this:
That's awesome Oreo! I love the extended stalemates. Eventually someone usually tries something crazy like a full on medic/heavy rush to break through, but in the mean time no one can complain about stacked teams. When something finally gets pushed through there's a great feeling of accomplishment.
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
I hate extended stalemates. I would prefer a mechanic that kicks in on plr maps that automatically move your cart unless the other team touches it or something. Then at least the map would be fucking over. 30-45 min of trying to push a cart up a goddamn hill is monotonous and annoying when the other team goes into full turtle mode with 3 engies.
Some cp maps will lead to stalemates, and I get it. But, they can often be broken by an offensive uber if done correctly. Plr doesn't accomodate this and instaspawn makes it worse. I would prefer incentives for pushing and trying to 'win' than trying not to lose.
This is another reason why I hate well. Argh...one engie in room = herp!
Some cp maps will lead to stalemates, and I get it. But, they can often be broken by an offensive uber if done correctly. Plr doesn't accomodate this and instaspawn makes it worse. I would prefer incentives for pushing and trying to 'win' than trying not to lose.
This is another reason why I hate well. Argh...one engie in room = herp!
I used to use that. Then I decided to pay the whole $10 to get this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002PAW6EG/?tag=neogaf0e-20Orellio said:^^^ I use a Rock Band 1 mic held up by a wire hanger stand I crafted, counterbalanced by a jar of change
Basically this:
Thing is pretty heavy.
One map (whose name I always forget) has the carts push themselves, maybe after a certain point, so yes it will end.Kuro Madoushi said:
I don't like stalemate/long back and forth maps, and long travel times are irksome. I'm not a fan of close hightower matches because the map has NO TIME LIMIT AT ALL and not even sudden death as far as I know, so it will literally never ever end until someone wins. The ultimate annoyance to me is hydro, where it literally changes map areas and pops up that stupid map screen every time someone captures. </old and crotchety> Hydro, however, has sudden death.
As a contrast to say, back and forth on badlands, I like KOTH maps (harvest, viaduct). They provide back and forth action, I don't think they're instaspawn, they're even for both teams, they have a few different angles to attack from and play in...and as long as someone captures the point, unless there is some truly crazy point fight, the round is GUARANTEED to be over in 6-8 minutes or less.
Drkirby said:I used to use that. Then I decided to pay the whole $10 to get this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002PAW6EG/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Thing is pretty heavy.
That's cool and all, but honestly I'm not 100% satisfied with the mic (I've been told on multiple occasions that I'm too quiet, and I have everything turned up all the way so I end up having to talk louder than normal sometimes) so if I ever spent money on something it would have to be a headset or wire clip; something that is closer to your mouth.
A desk mic kinda forces you to play with headphones too, which I don't always want to do.
And a head set doesn't force you to play with headphones?
Edit: Very likely to just be some misinformation, but I saw on the Portal 2 ARG IRC something about TF2 getting an updated related to the ARG. Grain of salt and everything, high likelihood to be some fake info at the moment.
Edit: Very likely to just be some misinformation, but I saw on the Portal 2 ARG IRC something about TF2 getting an updated related to the ARG. Grain of salt and everything, high likelihood to be some fake info at the moment.
Yeef said:
Its called teamwork. Its been available in the game for a while, though most people don't use it. What the stalemate is showing is that both sides actually know how to play the fucking game, so it will actually take some effort to beat the other team but its a more rewarding experience in the end.
I'll never understand how all you idiots can complain about 5cp stalemates when your favorite goddamn game mode feels like a constant stalemate throughout the entire map. At least in 5cp theres some dynamic to the match, with the points being pushed back and forth. PL is just sending an endless wave of people to a choke point and dying. The combat is boring and pointless, and without any variation.
Is it just the ding at the end? Is that the only reason you play the game, because you want to hear "you win?" I know thats the only reason Blizzard plays, but I figured some of you actually like the game. The fights are more interesting and more fun in a 5cp stalemate than they will ever be in a PL map.
PL is what makes me want to go back to quitting the game for good every time I play with you guys. You don't even bother trying even though you spend 75% of every night in PL maps. Every defense puts their engineers and focuses their hold on the points instead of before it. Protip: If you are defending at the next capture point instead of where the cart is actually located you have already decided to give up, so why bother.
PL is a gamemode where nobody can win, its just a torturously long grind until somebody loses.
(PLR is fine because it adds in all the stuff that makes the game good back into the gamemode. Things like multiple paths, the ability to flank, enough space to actually use your classes, etc.)
Also while I am ranting, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET SPAWNKILLED IN TF2 STOP WHINING ABOUT IT YOU FUCKING BABIES. Spawnkilling/camping is a term referring to the actual attacking of the spawn point entity, where you can focus fire on a player's position before they have time to react. If there is somebody outside of your spawn doors, they are not spawnkilling. The doors are there to protect you and allow you to think the situation through and have time to prepare your attempt to break out of a contain. If they are killing you the second you step out, all you have to do is not open the door for them to shoot in, build up an uber and break out. Or, since you love pointless grinds, just send a constant stream of guys out of your spawn and kill the enemy 1hp at a time.
GRUAAAAHH I HATE THIS GAME SO MUCH WHY CANT YOU GUYS PLAY A GAME I LIKE SO THAT I CAN ACTUALLY PLAY WITH YOU AND NOT BE ANGRY ALL THE TIME.
Oh come on, let's be fair, I play because I like the ding AND because I like hats.n0b said:
Now I realize you're an angry angry man in general, but I want to address one thing here. You say that (presumably payload) feels like a "constant stalemate throughout the entire map". With payload, if the cart is being pushed, the focus of the battle moves throughout the entire map or series of maps. There are many different areas where battle will happen, some of them easier to defend than others. The cart can also move backwards to a degree, so it's not even completely unidirectional.n0b said:
How is it a stalemate if the general motion is towards a final objective, through an entire map? How is moving through an entire series of maps without any variation?
If playing the game makes you that angry (I seem to recall you asking at least once if you could kick me because you did not feel I was being a good enough engineer, and thought I was trolling I guess?), why not play something you enjoy instead? :/ Not everyone has to play the same game, or have the same preference, and we're certainly not all as good as you at some things.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I have 49 hats.
I have a problem.
I have a problem.
It feels like a stalemate in that the battles, wherever they take place, always feel exactly the same because they are all essentially the exact same action. The maps are all pretty much hallways. Even if you find a way to flank (which is usually very rare because the maps are not really designed for it) it doesn't matter, because all you will have done is found a way past the objective and then have to go all the way back to it and then slowly push it to the point where you flanked, and by the time you get back it will have been built up again. It is effectively just a moving wall that both teams suicide against until the map ends. Mobility of classes, which is pretty much the primary differentiating factor between the classes, is rendered meaningless because all classes have to move at the rate of the cart.Blizzard said:
Blizzard said:
Because the community in the server is full of the best and most fun people to play with I have ever known in a game. You are more fun to play with than any other group of people in any other game that I have played over the years, and if it means suffering through anger at times, I'll deal with it.
(Also, when I was angry about engineers, I don't really care if an engineer's skill as a gamer is any good, you could play on a 360 pad and I wouldn't care. It is when people do things like build up on the second point on a PL map before the first point is anywhere near taken; if you don't want to defend, why did you choose the most defensive class in the game. What angers me is that the dominant engineer strategy is the least effective and least interesting to play as or against. If anybody playing another class spent their whole time staring at the last point until it was captured they would be treated like they were worthless players, yet somehow it is ok when an engineer gives up the whole map and attempts not to help the team at any point except for the last second.)
I don't think that it is a wall or that you have to suicide. It sounds like you enjoy more open movement (like badlands) rather than more directed path maps with a concentrated objective (cart), so that's fair enough. I do like payload though. Also, faster classes (or really most any class) can move ahead of the cart to prevent the defending team from setting up defense. Your "have to move at the rate of the cart" statement is only true if you are actually on the cart at every moment.n0b said:
You heard him, people. We've got to stop being fun so he can find a game he enjoys more. It's for his own good!
It's true, I think he thought I was trolling and/or he was angry. Engineer probably IS my worst class though because I practically never play it. ;_;esc said:
If anything, I would say it is a completely false statement, since most of the time you have a single guy pushing the cart while everyone else is trying to clear out the enemies. Usually the only time you will get a large group of people around the cart is when pushing it up a hill.
Grimm Fandango
Member
I'll rank my classes:
Pyro
Heavy
Medic
:|
Engineer
Demo
Sniper
Spy
Scout
Soldier
Pyro
Heavy
Medic
:|
Engineer
Demo
Sniper
Spy
Scout
Soldier
Wow, didn't realize I would spark such fury in everyone :X
Yes, I realize that 5-point maps can lead into a lot of stalemates, but personally, I think that they exhibit the most skill for each class. It gives all classes a pretty equal chance (except maybe engineers/heavies). I don't know, it's fun playing all of the different maps throughout the night, but balanced teams are hard to come by and if you guys were at a stalemate the other night, obviously the teams were pretty evenly matched
Yes, I realize that 5-point maps can lead into a lot of stalemates, but personally, I think that they exhibit the most skill for each class. It gives all classes a pretty equal chance (except maybe engineers/heavies). I don't know, it's fun playing all of the different maps throughout the night, but balanced teams are hard to come by and if you guys were at a stalemate the other night, obviously the teams were pretty evenly matched
balladofwindfishes
Member
Item and Trade servers going down to make room for the update tonight
Woah, this must be bigger than I expected.
Woah, this must be bigger than I expected.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Hatless Update (lol)
Updates to Team Fortress 2, Counter-Strike: Source, Day of Defeat: Source and Half-Life 2: Deathmatch have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The major changes include:
Source Engine Changes (CS:S, DoD:S, TF2, HL2
Fixed a packet injection exploit in the client/server streams
Fixed UDP logging exploit
Added a new server convar "sv_logsecret" which emits a new S2A_LOGSTRING2 UDP packet to any UDP log targets with the secret value pre-pended
Team Fortress 2
Added new map Koth_Badlands
Updated CP_Well
Spawn room by second cap for each time is now a one-way door
Updated Training
Added 3 new training courses for the Demoman, Engineer, and Spy
Added the Ready for Duty achievement for completing all of the training courses
Added a new system to associate dedicated servers with Steam accounts
Use the ConCommand "cl_gameserver_create_identity" in the Team Fortress 2 client console to create a server account using the currently logged in Steam account. This will generate values for "tf_server_identity_account_id" and "tf_server_identity_token"
Put the values for "tf_server_identity_account_id" and "tf_server_identity_token" into your server.cfg
Use the ConCommand "cl_gameserver_list" in the Team Fortress 2 client console to list all of the game server accounts owned by the currently logged in Steam account
Added a new system for coaching players
Added a new vote system
Server convars to control the vote system
sv_allow_votes : Allow voting?
sv_vote_failure_timer : A vote that fails cannot be voted on again during this period.
sv_vote_allow_specators : Allow spectators to vote?
sv_vote_issue_changelevel_allowed : Allow votes to change levels?
sv_vote_issue_kick_allowed : Allow votes to kick players from the server?
sv_vote_issue_nextlevel_allowed : Allow votes to set the next level?
sv_vote_issue_nextlevel_allowextend : Allow votes to extend the current map?
sv_vote_issue_restart_game_allowed : Allow votes to restart the game?
sv_vote_issue_scramble_teams_allowed : Allow votes to scramble the teams?
sv_vote_issue_nextlevel_choicesmode : Present players with a list of maps with the lowest playtimes to choose from?
sv_vote_kick_ban_duration : How long should a kick vote ban someone from the server? (in minutes)
dynamic model loading to improve performance
Combat Text changes
Added a new convar "hud_combattext_healing" to display the amount of healing done per second
Added bonus points to the items displayed using Combat Text
Starting position of values is now affected by range to target, making it easier to see numbers when next to targets
Updated voice to use the Steam voice codec to improve quality
Servers can toggle between the old codec and the new codec with the convar "sv_use_steam_voice", which defaults to 1.
Fixed not being able to see the correct colors for painted hats when running with DX8
Fixed not being able to see the | character in custom names and descriptions
Fixed a couple cases where custom sprays would not import correctly
Duel changes
The duel dialog has been extended to include class-specific duels in addition to the default duels
Duel badges now only show the number of wins a player has
Added Payload maps to Offline Practice
Fixed taunt kills made with a Katana not counting towards honorbound kills
Fixed a bug where killing a Katana wielder with a Katana was incorrectly causing an increased crit chance
Fixed infinite noisemakers exploit where noisemakers could continue to be used after their charges had run out
Improved the Medic overheal effect so it's more noticeable
Fixed func_build entities to respect the team value and prevent the associated team from building in the area
Items changes:
Added new "Sort by Rarity" option for sorting backpack items
Improved the backpack sorting algorithms
Added "styles" for the Ghastlier Gibus, Scotsman's Stove Pipe, Treasure Hat, Hat of Undeniable Wealth And Respect, and the Googly Gazer
Added paint preview to the preview section when shopping for hats
Updated the Googly Gazer to be paintable
Added new paint styles to the Pyromancer's Mask
Items in the action slot won't be swapped until returning to a supply cabinet
Replaced the no-crit attribute with -25% damage on the following:
The Eyelander, The Gunslinger, The Southern Hospitality, The Powerjack (also added +20% melee vulnerability)
The Horseless Headless Horseman's Headtaker, The Ullapool Caber, The Claidheamohmor
Vitasaw
Added the ability to see enemy health
Dalokohs Bar
Removed item cool down meter and ammo count when using the Dalokohs Bar
Fists of Steel
Increase deploy times 20%
Ranged damage reduced 40% (down from 60%)
Loch-n-Load
Damage increased by 10%
Equalizer
Tuned high-end damage range so it's no longer possible to one-shot certain classes
Suppress the medic call effect while active
Battalions Backup
Reduced rage generation rate by 50%
Concheror
Damage-to-health conversion increased to 35% (from 20%)
Mad Milk
Heal 60% of damage done (down from 75%)
Sun-on-a-Stick
Base damage lowered slightly but guarantees crits against burning players instead of mini-crits
Fan O War
Marking someone for death now lasts 15 seconds (from 10 seconds)
Flaregun
Flares always crit burning targets, regardless of range
Backburner
Removed the restriction on airblast
Ammo cost increased 150% (4 blasts at full ammo)
Damage bonus reduced to 10% (from 15%)
Sydney Sleeper:
Charge rate increased 25%
Bot changes:
Added Spy TFBots. Spy bots have basic cloaking, diguising, sapping, and backstabbing behaviors now, and are ready to join the fight
TFBots understand the basics of the Payload scenario now, and will push the cart on offense, and try to stop the cart on defense
Added navigation meshes for pl_goldrush, pl_badwater, pl_upward, pl_thundermountain, and pl_hoodoo_final
Improved TFBot reactions to cloaked and/or disguised enemy Spies
Improved Demoman bot behaviors for planting sticky bomb traps
Demoman bots will now try to move to a safe spot and lob stickybombs onto enemy sentry nests to destroy them
Soldier bots switch to their shotgun after emptying their rocket launcher at close/medium range
TFBots will no longer hide from sapped or carried sentryguns
Engineer bots are better at moving their sentry gun nest as the scenario changes
Improved Sniper bot algorithm for finding good sniping spots for both Capture Point and Payload scenarios
Sniper bots will take opportunistic shots at targets while they move to their desired sniping spot
Fixed bug where Sniper bots would sometimes stand around in their spawn room doing nothing.
Improved TFBot ability to find a safe vantage spot to attack enemy sentry guns
TFBots will no longer try to use a teleporter entrance they can't actually reach
Added tf_bot_melee_only cvar. If set to 1, all TFBots will be restricted to only using their melee weapon
Take off your angry pants, nob!n0b said:
In the particular game we're talking about (I don't remember if you were there), both teams were using plenty of teamwork. The problem was that the teams were too evenly matched Adding a bonus for capping a point ( I was thinking something along the lines of a small, temporary speed boost) only rewards and encourages teamwork because in an evenly matched game you're not going to be capping any points without it.
I actually don't have a favorite mode. I think every mode can be good or horrible dependent on the map. I like every single mode available in the game (note: I don't consider TC a mode).
This is where I disagree. I don't think any of the stuff you mention there has anything to do with Payload directly and has more to do with the way that most payload maps are designed. Thunder mountain is a payload map I like a lot (even though most people seem to hate it), because it has all of that. Multiple paths, flanking routes, tons of spacious areas as well as tight enclosed areas.
Yes, it's impossible to be spawn killed, but "I got spawn area exit killed" doesn't quite roll off the tongue as well, so most people just refer to it as spawn camping. Honestly, my feeling on spawn camping in TF2 is that it's not a big deal. Most good maps have multiple exits and even on maps that don't it can be shut down pretty easily. The real issue with 'spawn camping' is, at it's core, an issue with the demo class. He's the only class that can deal enough damage to insta-kill any class, deals splash damage in a very large radius and doesn't have to even have line of sight to the gate to do so. Any other class can be a minor annoyance with spawn camping, but can't last more than a few seconds (assuming they're no ubered). The best way, I'd argue, to stop a camping demo is to send a dead ringer spy out as bait and then immediately rush out as a team, before the demo has a chance to set up again. But on an alltalk server it's pretty hard to coordinate that without giving away the plan (no one reads text chat, as I learned all too well that night my headset died).
The other thing to consider is that, teammates can very easily get you killed by spawn camping. There have been numerous times when I've known there was a demo sticky camping the spawn door and even warned people as much, but then my idiot teammates run out of the door anyway and the explosion radius is large enough that it kills me even though I purposely stay far away enough to avoid opening the door.
Also, having to build up an uber just to get out of spawn means you've already lost the game at that point. it takes 60 seconds to build up an uber at normal rate or half that at the max rate. In every game mode that's a huge amount of time to have two (or more) people away from the battlefield. It's essentially giving up a point and an uber that could've been more useful in combat, just to get out to the actual map.
Because Toki Tori is single player!
EmCeeGramr
Member
my god
MatthewB92
Member
So I can see hat colors even if I'm running TF2 in DX8?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
...Backburner can airblast? Oh shit...
They, essentially, added everything that was testing in the beta EXCEPT for the detonator and replays.
.
The improved Loch n Load is a lot better since it can one-shot most classes (even though it's annoying to be on the receiving end). I remember using it in the beta and having a blast (
). I'm tempted to actually give the sun-on-a-stick a try, but I need a Pyro buddy. I never really got to play around with the coaching thing in teh beta, so I wouldn't mind giving that a try either.
Also, obviously I'm going to be setting votes to off since we just use the sourcemod voting system.
I didn't not realize that was a bug. I thought it was just an accurate simulation
ba DUM tsss
The improved Loch n Load is a lot better since it can one-shot most classes (even though it's annoying to be on the receiving end). I remember using it in the beta and having a blast (
there he goes again, with the puns!
Also, obviously I'm going to be setting votes to off since we just use the sourcemod voting system.
EmCeeGramr
Member
also those melee nerfs are like the dumbest thing and apparently everyone in the beta hated them too i can't wait for valve to revert that in like a week
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