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Tekken Tag Tournament 2 |OT| Awaiting the "Final Battle"

Yep. That's the problem with this generation of gaming. It's been great for the most part software/content-wise, but I agree 13300% about the "bad generation". We see spectacular masterpieces such as TTT2 struggle to sale because gamers to not want to invest time in it while certain "mainstream" games sell millions. I used to think I was hot stuff when I was able to pull off ten hit combos, a few small juggles and throws in Tekken 1 and beyond. It was until I played Tekken 6 when I realized that there is so much more to the franchise than that such as launchers, juggles, cancels, wave-dashing, etc. Yes, TTT2 does basically have infinite re-playability with all of it's content and possibilities.

Problem is, I think most causal gamers are kind of laz.....er.....*cough* sorry.....want simplicity or want games that are immediately accessible. They do not want to invest and dedicate a plethora of hours just learning the gameplay mechanics and want to jump in pulling off huge combos ASAP unfortunately. The want to mash some buttons and see a 100 hit combo materialize out of the horizon and decimate their opponents into oblivion. Sure, I can understand and I am not going to ridicule them for that, but Tekken like most fighters is about depth and investing time in it. I seen so many casual gamers state that the loathe fighters because they are too deep, not beginner friendly or they feel they are no good at them because they do not have time to learn them properly. Yes, an in depth tutorial would definitely help. Why do you think Ninja Gaiden 3 got dumbed down? So many people complained about how hard NG1 and NG2 were to learn. All for the casuals/mainstream and accessibility. Most people I knew couldn't even beat the first boss in NG1 and took the game back or traded it in. So sad because it was amazing.

Admittedly, online in TTT2 can be extremely brutal and intimidating even for people that have been playing it for a while, so I can imagine how frustrated newbies or intermediates get with TTT2. I know so many people who gave up on TTT2 and went back to Tekken 6, so maybe Tekken 7 will bring them back since there will probably be no tagging which I think some people couldn't comprehend the mechanics fully. I am not sure removing depth from the game will help though. If they dumb Tekken down, I will be extremely upset. I understand trying to reach more people, but at the same time I don't necessarily think most fighters appeal to the mainstream/casual crowd like shooters or sports games anyway, so they could be wasting their time by dumbing down Tekken and creating a stripped-down product all for nothing. It doesn't really seem to be doing DmC any favors now. Maybe reduce the roster since there are a decent amount of clones or trying to explain the mechanics a little better can help. It's hard to visualize the developers going from the amazing game TTT2 is and reducing it down to Tekken 5: DR standards(no, I loved Tekken: DR heh). It would be like Street Fighter 5 going back to SF2 gameplay mechanics or DOA5 going back to DOA3. I personally think it's bad for the franchise and sequels should show progression. Even if it is more accessible to casuals, they will most likely lose the hardcore that supported the franchise in the first place, so is it worth it?

Sorry, I'm ranting again.
 
Eh, I think it's too soon to hit the panic button on Tekken. There are too many different issues that seem like they are related to the core game when they may not be.

First, sales. The game sold well. Namco has not complained about the sales. Consider it was the EIGHTH fighting game released in a 12 month span of time, in an environment where only AAA tier games are moving any units, on consoles that most people are tired of playing anyway.

Tournament turnouts...this one is a bit tough. It appears to me that the usual tourney goers for Tekken are the same guys that have been going for several years, and those guys are getting up there in age. Losing their abilities, getting a family, job stuff, boredom, online being good enough (!), all of those things are a factor. But the younger crowd to replace them just isn't happening (or not quickly enough). Why? Well, aren't people staying at home more in general? Sports attendance is dropping, department stores are closing, all kinds of changes are happening. Tournaments are a labor of love for gaming, and as gaming becomes more ubiquitous in society, it becomes less a hobby of love for people and more of a commodity to pass the time. People don't buy CD's and expensive sound systems to just sit and listen to music anymore (except me ;_;), an iphone loaded with mp3s and a Bose fake surround speaker are good enough. I expect turnouts across every game to drop over the coming years unless something truly radical happens.

Is the core game too hard? Maybe, but not really. Movement and memorizing which strings jail are the only things I consider to be a real chore in the game. The other complexities make sense, but really need to be better explained and detailed throughout the game. I still don't think that would greatly increase the competitive playerbase though.

What really needs to occur is to incentivize things outside of winning. Only good players win, and most people aren't good, so if the only way to have fun is to win then most people won't have fun. Treyarch figured this out with COD, and it annoys the hell out of oldschool FPS fans, but that was successful. I think that kind of approach would be a great fit for fighting games since unless you're good you shouldn't be thinking about winning anyway, only getting better. Obviously "perform five EGWFs for a medal" isn't exactly the kind of thing I have in mind, but I don't have a real concrete idea beyond that. That's why game designers get paid the big bucks to figure it out!

As for the Capcom thing, it's best not to compare anything to them. Those games have built in advantages. 25 years of history and nostalgia for Street Fighter, and Marvel. I seriously think people underestimate the appeal of Marvel. The game is easy to pick up and play and has a strong history in the FGC, but that's still a game where half the roster has half a century of top level popularity in American culture.
 

Sayah

Member
Yep. That's the problem with this generation of gaming. It's been great for the most part software/content-wise, but I agree 13300% about the "bad generation". We see spectacular masterpieces such as TTT2 struggle to sale because gamers to not want to invest time in it while certain "mainstream" games sell millions. I used to think I was hot stuff when I was able to pull off ten hit combos, a few small juggles and throws in Tekken 1 and beyond. It was until I played Tekken 6 when I realized that there is so much more to the franchise than that such as launchers, juggles, cancels, wave-dashing, etc. Yes, TTT2 does basically have infinite re-playability with all of it's content and possibilities.

Problem is, I think most causal gamers are kind of laz.....er.....*cough* sorry.....want simplicity or want games that are immediately accessible. They do not want to invest and dedicate a plethora of hours just learning the gameplay mechanics and want to jump in pulling off huge combos ASAP unfortunately. The want to mash some buttons and see a 100 hit combo materialize out of the horizon and decimate their opponents into oblivion. Sure, I can understand and I am not going to ridicule them for that, but Tekken like most fighters is about depth and investing time in it. I seen so many casual gamers state that the loathe fighters because they are too deep, not beginner friendly or they feel they are no good at them because they do not have time to learn them properly. Yes, an in depth tutorial would definitely help. Why do you think Ninja Gaiden 3 got dumbed down? So many people complained about how hard NG1 and NG2 were to learn. All for the casuals/mainstream and accessibility. Most people I knew couldn't even beat the first boss in NG1 and took the game back or traded it in. So sad because it was amazing.

Admittedly, online in TTT2 can be extremely brutal and intimidating even for people that have been playing it for a while, so I can imagine how frustrated newbies or intermediates get with TTT2. I know so many people who gave up on TTT2 and went back to Tekken 6, so maybe Tekken 7 will bring them back since there will probably be no tagging which I think some people couldn't comprehend the mechanics fully. I am not sure removing depth from the game will help though. If they dumb Tekken down, I will be extremely upset. I understand trying to reach more people, but at the same time I don't necessarily think most fighters appeal to the mainstream/casual crowd like shooters or sports games anyway, so they could be wasting their time by dumbing down Tekken and creating a stripped-down product all for nothing. It doesn't really seem to be doing DmC any favors now. Maybe reduce the roster since there are a decent amount of clones or trying to explain the mechanics a little better can help. It's hard to visualize the developers going from the amazing game TTT2 is and reducing it down to Tekken 5: DR standards(no, I loved Tekken: DR heh). It would be like Street Fighter 5 going back to SF2 gameplay mechanics or DOA5 going back to DOA3. I personally think it's bad for the franchise and sequels should show progression. Even if it is more accessible to casuals, they will most likely lose the hardcore that supported the franchise in the first place, so is it worth it?

Sorry, I'm ranting again.


Eh, I think it's too soon to hit the panic button on Tekken. There are too many different issues that seem like they are related to the core game when they may not be.

First, sales. The game sold well. Namco has not complained about the sales. Consider it was the EIGHTH fighting game released in a 12 month span of time, in an environment where only AAA tier games are moving any units, on consoles that most people are tired of playing anyway.

Tournament turnouts...this one is a bit tough. It appears to me that the usual tourney goers for Tekken are the same guys that have been going for several years, and those guys are getting up there in age. Losing their abilities, getting a family, job stuff, boredom, online being good enough (!), all of those things are a factor. But the younger crowd to replace them just isn't happening (or not quickly enough). Why? Well, aren't people staying at home more in general? Sports attendance is dropping, department stores are closing, all kinds of changes are happening. Tournaments are a labor of love for gaming, and as gaming becomes more ubiquitous in society, it becomes less a hobby of love for people and more of a commodity to pass the time. People don't buy CD's and expensive sound systems to just sit and listen to music anymore (except me ;_;), an iphone loaded with mp3s and a Bose fake surround speaker are good enough. I expect turnouts across every game to drop over the coming years unless something truly radical happens.

Is the core game too hard? Maybe, but not really. Movement and memorizing which strings jail are the only things I consider to be a real chore in the game. The other complexities make sense, but really need to be better explained and detailed throughout the game. I still don't think that would greatly increase the competitive playerbase though.

What really needs to occur is to incentivize things outside of winning. Only good players win, and most people aren't good, so if the only way to have fun is to win then most people won't have fun. Treyarch figured this out with COD, and it annoys the hell out of oldschool FPS fans, but that was successful. I think that kind of approach would be a great fit for fighting games since unless you're good you shouldn't be thinking about winning anyway, only getting better. Obviously "perform five EGWFs for a medal" isn't exactly the kind of thing I have in mind, but I don't have a real concrete idea beyond that. That's why game designers get paid the big bucks to figure it out!

As for the Capcom thing, it's best not to compare anything to them. Those games have built in advantages. 25 years of history and nostalgia for Street Fighter, and Marvel. I seriously think people underestimate the appeal of Marvel. The game is easy to pick up and play and has a strong history in the FGC, but that's still a game where half the roster has half a century of top level popularity in American culture.
Nice. Good stuff. I can agree with a lot of this.
 

DEATH™

Member
Now to make you all more depressed...

I successfully put the korean crown 303a on my stick!!! You guys are so gonna get screwed that you're gonna quit tekken
Kappa.png


But seriously, all that drilling hurts my wrist... And I might wait until we move, then I will finish the whole modded stick, then I can probably make braves' stick design finally (if I'm not failing at school lol).
 
You guys have to consider also that SF4, MvC3 and MK9 are all reboots/revivals of long dead franchises. They're still fresh. Give people a chance to get tired of them again.

Tekken has always been around and it's still just Tekken. Even if quality remains high, the sales won't unless there is something to attract newcomers. All of the long running 3D fighters (DOA, Soulcalibur, Virtua Fighter) have seen decline this generation.

Namco has an opportunity to experiment with TxSF and inject some life back into the 3D fighter. Make it the best damn thing we've ever seen.
 
Honestly, we probably won't see Tekken 7 until 2015 at the earliest and that is being generous. Tekkens do a very long time to come out and Tekken 7 will probably be fairly different. I don't think they are really going to simplify it too much though because they could upset the hardcore fanbase who support, live and breathe this franchise. The tag feature will definitely be gone, there will be noticeably less characters, I imagine there will of course be new moves for everyone and some type of new feature or two.

Cut the roster as much as you necessary. Just don't forget about my Jaguars.
 
DEATH™;47955145 said:
Yay, you're back!!

If they gonna cut someone, AK would be... Trust me...

I'd agree before Tekken 5. I believe since Tekken 5, they've done a great job distinguishing Armor King as a very different character from King. And besides, we still need to find out what is going to happen in this dramatic revenge triangle with King, Armor King, and Marduk!
 

Sayah

Member
Cut the roster as much as you necessary. Just don't forget about my Jaguars Williams.

I fixed your post for accuracy. Degen will go on a rampage with Anna's absence. Well, anyway, they are already clearly going to have to cut a lot of Tekken characters for TKXSF. We'll see how that goes.

You guys have to consider also that SF4, MvC3 and MK9 are all reboots/revivals of long dead franchises. They're still fresh. Give people a chance to get tired of them again.

Tekken has always been around and it's still just Tekken. Even if quality remains high, the sales won't unless there is something to attract newcomers. All of the long running 3D fighters (DOA, Soulcalibur, Virtua Fighter) have seen decline this generation.

Namco has an opportunity to experiment with TxSF and inject some life back into the 3D fighter. Make it the best damn thing we've ever seen.

That's also true. There are, in fact, too many factors to consider for decline in sales.

You can also include:
-Competition (crazy amount of fighters released last year)
-End of a console generation
 

Sayah

Member
If I had to pick one, I don't know who I would go with. Anna's judgment stance makes her too much fun to play. In fact, she's been the most fun character to use in the game for me. But Nina is the better and more technical character.
 

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
You guys have to consider also that SF4, MvC3 and MK9 are all reboots/revivals of long dead franchises. They're still fresh. Give people a chance to get tired of them again.

Tekken has always been around and it's still just Tekken. Even if quality remains high, the sales won't unless there is something to attract newcomers. All of the long running 3D fighters (DOA, Soulcalibur, Virtua Fighter) have seen decline this generation.

Namco has an opportunity to experiment with TxSF and inject some life back into the 3D fighter. Make it the best damn thing we've ever seen.

MK9 was a reboot, but it wasn't long dead like SF and Marvel were. It is MK *9* after all.

I don't disagree with what you're saying otherwise, just nitpicking, heh.
 
MK9 was a reboot, but it wasn't long dead like SF and Marvel were. It is MK *9* after all.

I don't disagree with what you're saying otherwise, just nitpicking, heh.

Yeah, that's why I said reboot/revival. They're essentially the same thing. A fresh start.

2D MK was dead, though. It was a revival in that sense.
 

DEATH™

Member
And besides, we still need to find out what is going to happen in this dramatic revenge triangle with King, Armor King, and Marduk!

Nah bro... It's all Kayfabe... Just like most wrestlers, all three of them just go chill backstage while smoking everything that comes from Julia's Lab/Farm. There's a reason all of them loves Jules... *points at netsu chart*

lolololol

Besides, if SCV is any indication, storylines get dropped just as quick if they wanted too. If they go to T4 route and make huge character reductions, Anna, Jun, Kuni, AK, Bruce, Michelle, Wang and other "clone" chars will get the cut. It don't matter if they are played by a bunch. Just look at SCV.

What's scary too is if all of them gets replaced by cheap chars like Lars just to appeal to noobs... that's the death of Tekken right there...
 

AAK

Member
Dammit I've been playing Tekken from the past 5 hours and it's 4:30 AM... I'm addicted.

And I've done nothing but constantly get demoted with all of my teams!

Tried to find a partner with Leo. Tried a bunch of characters: Baek, Jack, Ogre, Zafina... Baek confuses me so much because instead of Hwoarang's stance transitions, Baek does stance cancels so you always have to press an extra kick button that cancels into the stance which makes my mind go crazy. Jack's movements is sooooo hard on an arcade stick, I gave up. Ogre was really fun, but he has WAY too many redundant moves, just felt there wasn't so much to explore with him. Zafina fit the bill nicely... but I still hate the fact that this new Leo/Zafina team has only a single 1+2 for both of them, I love grabs.

Also, I got sad watching the IFL... Kodee switched from Heihachi to Lars. I was so happy to see a true North American Mishima master but he succumbed to picking the top tier. :(
 

DEATH™

Member
Dammit I've been playing Tekken from the past 5 hours and it's 4:30 AM... I'm addicted.

And I've done nothing but constantly get demoted with all of my teams!

Tried to find a partner with Leo. Tried a bunch of characters: Baek, Jack, Ogre, Zafina... Baek confuses me so much because instead of Hwoarang's stance transitions, Baek does stance cancels so you always have to press an extra kick button that cancels into the stance which makes my mind go crazy. Jack's movements is sooooo hard on an arcade stick, I gave up. Ogre was really fun, but he has WAY too many redundant moves, just felt there wasn't so much to explore with him. Zafina fit the bill nicely... but I still hate the fact that this new Leo/Zafina team has only a single 1+2 for both of them, I love grabs.

Also, I got sad watching the IFL... Kodee switched from Heihachi to Lars. I was so happy to see a true North American Mishima master but he succumbed to picking the top tier. :(

You lucky... I cant even play for even one hour without a disturbance happening...

And I would recommend Feng, Wang or Xiaoyu for partners for leo. Feng for a general high damage outputs, and wang or xiaoyu if you want to complement leo wth pojes and tricks.



And Kodee lost badly... :)
 

AAK

Member
Leo personally works very well with everyone. Her and Lars have that quality. I can't think of any character hat doesn't complement them well. I was just looking for someone fun.

Feng - This ******* can die in FIRE! This character EXCELS when he's in negative frames. With is annoying crush and backswing moves. I refuse to use this character! :p

Xiaoyu - I see too many of her online, tired of her honestly.

Wang - Not a fan of playing old characters in games, just a personal preference. But man, his damned parry. It's such a monstrosity.

He didn't lose badly, it was Bane who lost really badly with a 3-0 loss. Kodee at least took Speed kicks 3-2 (speedkicks chocked, missed obvious tag in punishes) and lasted against bane till the final match too where he lost 2-3. I was hoping Mr. Taxi made it to the playoffs, his Anna is a lot of fun to watch.

EDIT: You should get and EVO monitor Death, hook it up in your room and that way you can play without any disturbances. Also, you'll get less lag than from all the other regular HDTV's.
 

AAK

Member
Anyone help me on JFs? I always seem to get Paul's f,f+2:1 to perfection, but I can only get d+4, 2:1+2 sometimes.

I believe Paul players just have the rhythm down. But to learn it, I think you have to look at the Health bar. Right when you see a disturbance on the healthbar when you strike you input the next command and keep going.

There's an even harder JF with King where you do his Ultimate Tackle, 3+4:1+2. And to get that out, I always have to look at the lifebar, I can never do it out of rhythm.
 
AAK run dat Miguel/Leo, pure destruction. I've been meaning to run that team myself but I've still got such a long way to go with my main team to be messing around with other teams.

Also, everyone should take a few days off from TTT2 and go out and get Metal Gear Rising asap. Easily game of the year.
 

AAK

Member
AAK run dat Miguel/Leo, pure destruction. I've been meaning to run that team myself but I've still got such a long way to go with my main team to be messing around with other teams.

Also, everyone should take a few days off from TTT2 and go out and get Metal Gear Rising asap. Easily game of the year.

Miguel fights like an old man LOL. Honestly, what Miguel desperately needs is to use things from around the environment. His fighting style as it currently is is honestly boring. I thought his character was based off of Mad Dog from Ong Bak, but Mad Dog was cool because of how he used the environment, not his fists. Here is the video I'm referring to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riMtgY-Ln1U (video is garbage quality, but it's the best version available on youtube, I think everything else was taken down from copyright)

And MGS4 is my favorite single player game ever, only games that come close are DMC1 and RE2. So I definitely preordered MGS:R... but my package still hasn't arrived yet :(
 
Miguel fights like an old man LOL. Honestly, what Miguel desperately needs is to use things from around the environment. His fighting style as it currently is is honestly boring. I thought his character was based off of Mad Dog from Ong Bak, but Mad Dog was cool because of how he used the environment, not his fists. Here is the video I'm referring to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riMtgY-Ln1U (video is garbage quality, but it's the best version available on youtube, I think everything else was taken down from copyright)

And MGS4 is my favorite single player game ever, only games that come close are DMC1 and RE2. So I definitely preordered MGS:R... but my package still hasn't arrived yet :(

Did you just hate on the BROOKLYN BRAWLER? lol. Put tattoos on miguel and he'll use the enviorment ;)

MGS4 is one of my all time favs as well. I just got the platinum trophy yesterday too. Had to so I could finally delete the game data and make space on my 40gb ps3 for MGR.
 

DEATH™

Member
GGs Terra... (yeah I'm dropkick)

I'm really frustrated. I admit I'm outclassed. What frustrates me more is the missed combos, missed inputs (b+1+2 comes out instead of b+1,2, can't input GS properly), and missed punishment (can't even punish Lili qcf2,1 and Anna Booty Bomb despite being death on block). I became too hopkick spammy too... I want to bang my head to the wall because of my stupidity...
 
DEATH™;47986438 said:
GGs Terra... (yeah I'm dropkick)

I'm really frustrated. I admit I'm outclassed. What frustrates me more is the missed combos, missed inputs (b+1+2 comes out instead of b+1,2, can't input GS properly), and missed punishment (can't even punish Lili qcf2,1 and Anna Booty Bomb despite being death on block). I became too hopkick spammy too... I want to bang my head to the wall because of my stupidity...

To be fair, those matches were kinda laggy, I had trouble punishing your hopkicks as well.
 

MikeMyers

Member
I believe Paul players just have the rhythm down. But to learn it, I think you have to look at the Health bar. Right when you see a disturbance on the healthbar when you strike you input the next command and keep going.

There's an even harder JF with King where you do his Ultimate Tackle, 3+4:1+2. And to get that out, I always have to look at the lifebar, I can never do it out of rhythm.

I've been using Paul since I first played Tekken in 1997, although I only got serious with the franchise in 2005...took a break after DR, and came back with TTT2.

Edit: Hey that worked! I got it down now! It turns out it is acutally D+1:2:1+2 and not D+1,2:1+2
 

Doomshine

Member
How do you guys feel about the PS4 controller? I'm not entirely convinced about that d-pad, it looks like the buttons are a little too big and too close, but I guess I'll have to try it.
 

AAK

Member
How do you guys feel about the PS4 controller? I'm not entirely convinced about that d-pad, it looks like the buttons are a little too big and too close, but I guess I'll have to try it.

ds4z5dhh.gif


Assuming the face button proportions are the same, it's not that big of a difference IMHO, but I still wish the dpad was the same as the prototype.

I don't like how small the triggers are now, but I suppose maybe it's for the better. I wish hte L1 and R1 buttons are pressure sensitive again like in the PS2. Worked so well with MGS2 and Psiops.
 

DR2K

Banned
Just got my copy of TTT2. New levels are bitching.

How does that ground bonce tag work? How to I keep a character in for a full string?
 

AAK

Member
Yeah, it should easily be possible, try to press 1,2,4,4,4,4 for now until you get the timing for inputting Asuka's string down. And then when the blinking indicator returns to Lili you input qcf+2,1 to end the tag assault or even better f,f+3~f~2,1.

A simpler (and optimal and more damaging) tag assault filler with Asuka is b+2,1,4
 

Doomshine

Member
For example when I do Asuka 124(could be 3) string off that tag, Lili will come back in before I finish and do a 4 kick as well. Is my timing off? Is this combo not possible? Did the timer run out?

Usually you gain control as soon as you finish inputting your string, but it seems to also depend on the move.
 

DR2K

Banned
Usually you gain control as soon as you finish inputting your string, but it seems to also depend on the move.


Yeah, it should easily be possible, try to press 1,2,4,4,4,4 for now until you get the timing for inputting Asuka's string down. And then when the blinking indicator returns to Lili you input qcf+2,1 to end the tag assault or even better f,f+3~f~2,1.

A simpler (and optimal and more damaging) tag assault filler with Asuka is b+2,1,4

Alrighty, going to mess around in training mode.

AA seems a lot better from what I last remembered, did the patch fix that up?
 

mr_boo

Member
Leo personally works very well with everyone. Her and Lars have that quality. I can't think of any character hat doesn't complement them well. I was just looking for someone fun.

Feng - This ******* can die in FIRE! This character EXCELS when he's in negative frames. With is annoying crush and backswing moves. I refuse to use this character! :p

Xiaoyu - I see too many of her online, tired of her honestly.

Wang - Not a fan of playing old characters in games, just a personal preference. But man, his damned parry. It's such a monstrosity.

He didn't lose badly, it was Bane who lost really badly with a 3-0 loss. Kodee at least took Speed kicks 3-2 (speedkicks chocked, missed obvious tag in punishes) and lasted against bane till the final match too where he lost 2-3. I was hoping Mr. Taxi made it to the playoffs, his Anna is a lot of fun to watch.

EDIT: You should get and EVO monitor Death, hook it up in your room and that way you can play without any disturbances. Also, you'll get less lag than from all the other regular HDTV's.
Don't know if you're looking for a partner still, but I've recently picked up Duk, and it's been a lot of fun, though with a lot of failures and losses online. He's so different from my mains (Ling & Lei) ... Some references if anyone's interested in Duck: LYUG has a Bread & Butter on him, there's a good vid of AVP: Aeris vs OFDP (Jack & Duk) as well that's pretty fun too watch.

Interesting question for everyone, how do you compose your team member and order? For myself, I choose my teams based purely on what I think is fun. Don't care about netsu impact or anything. Regarding order, I start the round with whom I perceive is the lighter/pokier character.
 
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